posted 04-30-2011 11:36 AM ET (US)        

I've talked to a few people who raise their eyebrows when I tell them that I'm going to take a 16-foot boat across to Victoria, given that the water thereabouts can get pretty choppy. However, we've Whalered further north along Vancouver Island (out of Telegraph Cove) in some pretty rough weather, and I don't really see too much difficulty in a crossing like that, barring gales or fog or something.

Can anyone offer advice for me about the crossing? And once into Victoria Harbour I'm guessing I'll be able to find moorage, but maybe I'm overly optimistic??

posted 04-30-2011 07:39 PM ET (US)            

Sometimes the forecasts are just wrong! It is best just to check the day of and make a smart decision. I know it can be a pain when you are on a tight schedule but it is just the right thing to do I feel. The early morning and late evening have normally been a good time for that crossing and that goes for anywhere up the coast in that direction from the north side Vancouver to Vancouver Island.

posted 04-30-2011 10:27 PM ET (US)            

Traveling to Victoria, B.C. from Anacortes, WA through the San Juan Islands will take you across the Straight of Georgia, not the Straight of Juan de Fuca.

posted 05-01-2011 11:44 AM ET (US)            

Actually, I chuckled when reading your response. It is almost verbatim the response I was going to give you last night before I decided meddle and muddle were just too good together in one sentence to pass up.

My suspicion is that you and I have chosen different routes for traveling by small boat from Anacortes, through the San Juans, to Victoria.

posted 05-01-2011 12:14 PM ET (US)            

--depart Anacortes heading North
--transit Guemes Channel Westward to Rosario Strait
--transit Rosario Strait Southwesterly to Juan De Fuca Strait
--proceed across Juan De Fuca Strait generally westerly to Victoria

The last leg is the really open water leg, a stretch of about 25 miles. If the weather cooperated, you could make that in an hour in a 16-footer, but, of course, you'd need cooperative wind and wave conditions.

posted 05-01-2011 12:47 PM ET (US)            

I also add this warning: even if wind waves are small, watch out in this area for commercial shipping. Large commercial ships appear to transit this area at speeds which produce significant wakes. In the two weeks I spent boating in this area--well actually most of the time was much farther North and not in the San Juan Islands--the worst wave we encountered was the wake of a large commercial ship.

I still recall that situation. We were on a crossing course with a commercial ship. My initial estimate of our relative positions indicated I could cross in front of the approaching ship, which I much preferred to do so as to avoid his wake. I increased my speed to give me greater clearance for the crossing, however I soon saw that my initial judgement was wrong. The relative bearing to the commercial ship was staying constant or slightly decreasing, indicating I was not making any headway toward crossing his bow. I increased speed to full-throttle, but still the relative bearing did not increase. I had to alter course and pass astern of the ship, which caused me to cross his wake. The wake was very substantial, and on the third wave of the wake the bow of the REVENGE could not rise in time. We took green water over the foredeck, even though we slowed to idle speeds.

posted 05-01-2011 12:50 PM ET (US)            

Once you're in Haro Strait you can cross immediately to the Canadian side and hug their coast, follow the coast of San Juan Island, or go whereever you want depending on the weather conditions. Keep an eye out for lots of ~25 foot, brightly colored inflatables leading whale watching tours in the area. It's quite common to see Orcas in Haro Strait in the summer, and it's wonderful to see them from your own boat. Just make sure you stay 200 yards away and follow all the other rules if you do find the whales.

posted 05-01-2011 01:16 PM ET (US)            

- Depart Skyline Marina on the South side of Fidalgo Island.

- Cross Rosario Straight to either Thatcher Pass or Lopez Pass.

- Travel north up Lopez Sound thence westward through Harney Channel through the Wasp Group to Speiden Channel and on to Roche Harbor.

- From Roche Harbor, cross Haro Straight (the Southern extension of the Straight of Georgia) to Victoria via Baynes Channel and either Mayor Channel or Plumper Passage.

Because this trip is a part of a visit to the San Juan Islands, skirting the islands altogether by traveling south of them does not make sense.

The Southern route also exposes you to the big water of the Straight of Juan de Fuca. When the swell is right, it can roll all the way from the Pacific Ocean down the Straight of Juan de Fuca to its east end south of the San Juan Islands. That is a lot of fetch and can produce some very big waves when a Westerly blows.

If you do take this route, you are traveling along the edge of the Straight of Juan de Fuca, you are not crossing it. You cross the Straight of Juan de Fuca if you travel to Victoria from a port on the Olympic Peninsula like Port Angeles.

Once in the heart of the San Juan Islands, the most logical path to Victoria is across and down Haro Straight. When the weather is good, the wind, if any, will usually be from the North. By leaving Roche Harbor early and traveling downwind to Baynes Channel you will have a much easier ride.

[ Aside: We call it the Straight of Juan de Fuca not Juan de Fuca Straight. It is so named on the numerous NOAA charts I have here in my office. ]

I cannot understate the importance of boating across water that is moving the same direction as the wind. The change of tide, even when weak, will have a profound effect on how the waves build. As little as 30 minutes can be the difference between light tight chop and big breaking waves.

posted 05-01-2011 01:32 PM ET (US)            

But they're Canadian.

posted 05-01-2011 06:00 PM ET (US)            

Crossing from Island to Island in Protected Water in an EASTPORT 16

posted 05-01-2011 10:58 PM ET (US)            

If you happen to encounter the wake of a large vessel, don't slow to idle speed unless you like wet feet. Use the ability of the motor to keep the bow up as you cross the wake...you may have to speed up or slow down, depending on the speed at which you were traveling when you encountered the wake. You and your passengers and gear will get jostled a little, but you will not take green/blue/brown water over the bow.

BTDT. I prefer the brief discomfort of a jostle than wet feet or belongings in the boat.

(*Brown water reference applies in New Jersey and Wisconsin)

posted 05-02-2011 03:39 AM ET (US)            

The trip from Friday Harbor to Victoria is great, just shoot for Oak Bay and then follow the shoreline. You'll see Orca and if you're lucky it will be the whole herd - 10 -20 whales.

posted 05-02-2011 12:58 PM ET (US)            

Stay in the shelter of the islands and cross Haro Strait from the north end of San Juan like Tom and 20Dauntless suggest. Crossing Rosario will be your biggest water and you will never be out of sight of land.

Check out the custom rules, they seem to change each year. Get good charts, better yet, a GPS with a good chart card. Lots of rocks and reefs in weird places. Watch out for stuff in the water and be aware of the tide.

Have all your required safety stuff up to date. The Guard really checks out the traffic in this area.

posted 05-02-2011 01:14 PM ET (US)            

In a 47 year old 16 ft glass boat, 45 miles in open water, plan a early morning run and work your itenerary backwards from your arrival.

Example; Figure noon to be the drop dead time to arrive prior to prevailing wind.
Give yourself an hour of contingency time.
Plan to arrive at 1100.
20 mph cruising speed x 45 miles = 2.5 hrs.
Doesnt matter how fast the engine will make the boat go, what is the safe speed for the hull in some chop?
Plan to leave 0830.
+ 30 mins contingency time = 0800 departure.
You will arrive safe, dry and rested.

posted 05-02-2011 08:01 PM ET (US)            

- OldToby said in his first sentence he is planning a trip to the San Juan Islands. I take this to mean he plans to cruise the San Juans with a trip from there to Victoria as well, not a go-for-broke run from Anacortes to Victoria.

- There is no 45 miles of "open water".

- At no point, regardless of what route you take, including Jim's, will OldToby cross the Straight of Juan de Fuca.

- At no point anywhere in the PNW will you be out of sight of land unless you are 100 miles or more offshore in the Pacific Ocean. Unlike Florida, we have very tall mountain ranges here.

- The maximum single distance of "open water" one might encounter between Roche Harbor and Victoria is about 8 nautical miles in Haro Straight between Mosquito Pass and Bayne's Channel.

posted 05-02-2011 08:42 PM ET (US)            

Roche Harbor seems like a good place to stop over prior to the crossing. We thought we'd overnight there, but does anyone know if there's any lodging there other than the resort? I hate spending big bucks on a place to sleep, preferring to spend my precious few disposable dollars on my boat (the 'Mary Elyse', if you see us bobbing around this summer).

posted 05-03-2011 01:01 AM ET (US)            

"- At no point, regardless of what route you take, including Jim's, will OldToby cross the Straight of Juan de Fuca."

I am not buying this. Tom is wrong.

posted 05-03-2011 02:03 AM ET (US)            

http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=46088

Average wave height in July is less than .5 meters.

http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/view_climplot.php?station=46088&meas=wh

Have a great run.

posted 05-03-2011 02:07 AM ET (US)            

I would target being in the islands mid-week, avoid weekends. Moorage should be feasible, a 17' boat will help, as you'll find those small openings that just fit. (Some marinas take reservations.)

It is not clear how many days you want to spend in the San Juans/Victoria, the more the merrier.

Once you leave Anacortes I would suggest Orcas Island and find a B&B in Deer Harbour. Deer Harbour is centrally located within the San Juans, and you can head almost regardless of weather because it is protected. You can equally stay in Roche, plenty of places to stay too. I can't say that either are low cost.

When you feel like heading to Canada, as mentioned by others: pick your AM weather window and head through Mosquito Pass (next to Roche Harbour); once in Haro, target Baynes Channel (south west) to get to Victoria. Plan B, is Sydney, which is a north-west track from Mosquito Pass. In Haro you'll end up with a north-westerly or southerly breeze and wave pattern (depending on weather and tide), and sometimes you end up in a convergence zone. The trade wind (a loose moniker for the typical wind/weather pattern) picks up in the afternoon and blows west in the Strait of Juan de Fuca, and this generates the dominate air mass and nastiness when trying to get to Victoria. If you get halfway across Haro and you can tell you'll be pounding into the wind and waves, turn north and head for Sydney. This will put you on a downwind course (heading north), and you'll likely get into Sydney at the same time as you would have in Victoria. Both Victoria and Sydney have decent customs, and are end destinations for the boating community. Victoria has a lot more to offer, but less boating in the immediate vicinity.

I have made this Haro run a several times (power boats and sailboats), and this is how we setup our crossing, target Victoria, option to Sydney. -- I called into customs the early AM, to set up a check-in time and asked for any concerns.

A couple tips:
-Killer whales are most likely to be found on the west side of San Juan island between Cattle Pass and Mosquito Pass. (Know your boating rules, as getting in their ways is a no-no.) You can listen to the VHF to get the radio chatter to get their exact location, they do move around and could be anywhere.
-The Frasier river (Vancouver, CA) is expecting some 16 million Pink salmon this season, almost all of which travel along the San Juan's. July is a little early for the run, but if you get into calm water and into the run, you see schools of them. If you like to fish, bring a pole, and get a license (anything hot pink will work).
-Container/Ferries/Ro-Ro's ships travel at 12-24 knots in open waters, as jimh stated, don't underestimate their speed.

posted 05-03-2011 09:33 AM ET (US)            

quote:

---

" The trade wind (a loose moniker for the typical wind/weather pattern) picks up in the afternoon and blows west in the Strait of Juan de Fuca, and this generates the dominate air mass and nastiness when trying to get to Victoria."

---

I must ask for clarification on the wind direction. Do you mean the prevailing wind is an East wind in the afternoon?

ASIDE: The wind direction is normally cited as being the direction the wind blows from, which can create some confusion. I recall reading a fellow's account of sailing in Alaska. At one point in his trip he was at the mouth of a long inlet that ran North for perhaps 50-miles. He was considering sailing up the inlet, but inquired with a local about the prevailing winds. The local replied the wind was almost always a North wind. At that moment the wind was South at 20-knots.

Well, the cruiser thought, what a chance. I'll run up this inlet, enjoy the spectacular view, and wait a day or two for the wind to return to normal. The fellow made an easy run up the inlet with the wind behind him, found a good anchorage, and settled in. For the next week the wind remained from the South, and kept increasing. Finally reluctant to remain stuck deep in the inlet no longer, the cruiser began the tedious trek of sailing out into the strong head wind, tacking back and forth across the narrow inlet. After a long day of beating into head seas and head winds, the guy makes it back to the mouth of the inlet, where he stops for the night.

The next morning at the dock, the wind now raging from the South at 30-knots, he happens to run into the same local. "Hey," he says to the local, "I though you said the prevailing wind here was North?"

posted 05-03-2011 11:16 AM ET (US)            

Perhaps you and I disagree about the meaning of the word "cross". To me and my dictionary, it means to travel from one side to the other.

If you travel by boat from Chicago to Milwaukee, are you crossing Lake Michigan? Or are you traveling in open water along its periphery?

posted 05-03-2011 11:21 AM ET (US)            

There is nothing about the Boston Whaler hull and its construction that would concern me at all after 47 years, assuming it has been maintained and does not still have its original 47 year old outboard motor on it.

posted 05-03-2011 11:57 AM ET (US)            

I suggest using SailFlow website for wind forecasts and real time values. (There are several other websites, all using the same publicly available data. SailFlow tends to have an easier user interface in my opinion. If you like to play around with raw data, you can go to the UW atmos website.) And like any forecast in the PNW, it is only good for ~24-48hrs hours.

posted 05-03-2011 12:08 PM ET (US)            

Schedule Crossing time: 1 hour 40 minutes (ferry) 24-28 knots??
Distance: 30 nautical miles

On a calm sea it has taken me about 1:20 mins in a 17 Montauk/Standard/Revenge no problem at all providing you don't encounter any disturbance, for example engine, wind, avoiding wood etc.

This route in comparison is wide open to the route further south where you have the San Juan Islands in between. If you take in the sites of course add more time but realistically I would think you are in that ball park area of an 1:30-2 hours maximum to cross providing you pick a good time which I will say early morning and late evening to be the best time almost always. Middle of the day is not normally preferred for a small crafts as the winds can build and be a real problem. I have fished over there dozens of times and have never had a problem making the crossing with exception of one time where we never should have crossed a bad error on my part and learned my lesson. The problem is that if they predict 10-15 knot wind, that is really just an average but in honesty it tends to build in the middle portion of your trip and can be more like 25-35 with massive swells with white caps on top. It doesn't become much fun anymore and mentally and physically can really test your wits.

posted 05-03-2011 12:16 PM ET (US)            

The problem you are going to have is finding reasonably priced accommodations for you and your boat. I do not know about Deer Harbor B&B's, but if you can find one with dock space, that could be fun. Roche is expensive and dock space is really expensive. Friday Harbor is another spot to look. B&B owners might be able to get you free dock space if you stay with them.

A reasonably priced place to launch and store your rig, might be the Skagit County Swinomish boat launch. It's only about 1 1/2 hours from there to a jumping off spot for Victoria.

You should plan on stopping at one of the islands that are run by the State. You can raft up for free next to someone, walk around and commune with nature.

John

posted 05-03-2011 02:19 PM ET (US)            

Stage yourself in Roche and if you think it’s time to try it you proceed thru Mosquito pass (watch the chart, lots of rocks) and peek your bow out, you will know in a hurry if it’s smooth enough to get over inside of Discovery Island.

Personally I wouldn’t waste my time taking a small boat over there, the only reason we do it is because we can stay on board. Get a room in Victoria and walk on the ferry from Friday Harbor. You could easily be stuck for days waiting for a weather window.

If you just want to visit Canada in your boat try going from Roche to Sidney BC, it’s like a small Victoria with a beautiful marina and lots closer.

posted 05-03-2011 02:56 PM ET (US)         

I was hoping for an enlightening read. My hope has drained and I have let myself become utterly frustrated with two of my most valued and respected purveyors of just about everything related to the boats I love.

posted 05-03-2011 03:32 PM ET (US)            

Locals who live there or cruise there don't screw around with guessing games and have back up plans in place. This is the Pacific Ocean with big tides people and things with big teeth, cold water. I've been in San Juans plenty of times when I lived out there, more when I lived in Seattle and did some cruising with friends on sailboats.

The fun and options are limitless and there are more things alive and good to eat in those waters than any Great Lakes, flatlander boater could ever imagine.

GO OUT THERE - and cruise with the locals or rent something, if you're qualified, and figure it out.

In my experience Oregonians and Washingtonians and some Californians and probably all BC people know that that ocean, mountains, back country and moving (fast) water (rivers) can kill yo' ass lickity split and bang, you are dust in the wind. They do not play, guess or mess around. That's where I learned to be careful and pay attention to the locals - TOTAL focus.

There wasn't a week that went by when I lived there where some fool from the flatlands could read their name in the paper, if they hadn't been killed screwing around on rocks, alpine terrain, fast water, ocean (including tide pools), back country. Not a week- goof balls trying to run white water in Coleman canoes (should have gone to the bowling alley) or rock climb in tennis shoes, or ski drunk.

It is so fantastic out there and plane tickets are cheap - go for it - I'd love to and hope to get to OR this summer.

posted 05-03-2011 03:41 PM ET (US)            

"I must ask for clarification on the wind direction. Do you mean the prevailing wind is an East wind in the afternoon?"

No, it blows from the west in the afternoon in the strait.

Nice weather summer days in Washington finds the mainland to the east of the Strait of Juan de Fuca warming which causes the air to rise and this in turn draws cooler marine air down the strait, which can give you quite a strong afternoon seabreaze, blowing from the West down the Strait, and then channeling down Puget Sound (a north/south trench) which ends up bringing a northerly at Seattle in the late afternoon.

At Victoria, the mornings may start calm, but by early afternoon it can be blowing 25-30 from the west. And if this crosses an outgoing tide (flowing towards the west)there can be some chop.

posted 05-03-2011 04:16 PM ET (US)            

quote:

---

Part of the reason for this trip, and part of the reason I own and operate a 47 year-old boat, is for the experience of being out on big water and experiencing the risk and adventure (for lack of a better and less-cheesy word) of navigating my old boat to its destination. I'm not looking for unnecessary risk, but I'm not going to avoid an activity because it has some degree of danger or difficulty or risk associated with it. Hence, no ferries for me; why would I bother? If I only wanted to see Victoria, I'd fly there.

---

posted 05-03-2011 06:42 PM ET (US)            

I would not stay overnight in Roche Harbor under any circumstances. It is just a zoo in the high season. Great place to stop and look at very expensive yachts, clear customs, buy groceries or have lunch but it not my idea of getting away in my boat.

I have stayed just around the corner from there in Westcott Bay in a rental vacation house for one night that was arranged at the last minute. It came with its own mooring buoy out front. It can be done.

If on San Juan Island, I would be MUCH more inclined to visit Friday Harbor if you want on-land overnight accomodations. They have an excellent marina.

But if you want to do any camping, even lazy comfort camping, the San Juan Island abound in State and County Parks. James Island, Jones Island, Turn Island, Stuart Island, Clark Island, Sucia Island, Patos Island, Martia Island all have wonderful beaches, docks, mooring buoys. There are many others too.

There are parks on the big islands too. Orcas, Lopez, San Juan and Shaw all have public parks accessible by boat.

Marinas with transient moorage are also abundant. I like Deer Harbor Marina too, though West Sound has nice amenities as well. Fisherman's bay on Lopez is very popular and good place to grab a meal even if you are not overnighting there.

The list goes on and on. As Pete pointed out earlier, you could spend weeks exploring the San Juans, and may do.

posted 05-03-2011 08:05 PM ET (US)            

My father can be seen in the rear, just visible in a Top Hat.

The photo comes from a 1953 article published in LIFE magazine, photographs by Burt Glinn.

posted 05-04-2011 02:36 PM ET (US)            

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d137/jmartin-/light017.jpg

I am willing to bet that fog, not water conditions, will determine when you do the crossing.

posted 05-06-2011 03:21 PM ET (US)            

Tom is correct. You do not "cross" the straight going from Anacortes to Victoria. You do cross Rosario and Haro Straights, but not Juan deFuca. Understand that us locals who are very familiar with the area know the difference, regardless of what the chart may say.

If you went from, say Chicago to Milwauke, would you say that you had "crossed" Lake Michigan?

posted 05-06-2011 08:17 PM ET (US)            

Exactly on what basis am I supposed to agree that I have not crossed the Strait of Juan De Fuca?

I fully realize that the Strait of Juan de Fuca continues Westward for a very long distance, and that the gap between the shorelines increases, and that the major axis of the Strait of Juan de Fuca is West to East, making a crossing course generally in a South to North direction, but these are simply other places where one can cross. They are not the only place.

The Strait of Juan De Fuca curves Northward at its Eastern extreme, and that is where my course line crosses it.

posted 05-06-2011 08:32 PM ET (US)            

hahaha

I will explain carefully in three bullet points the differences:

--Lake Michigan is a lake, which is a closed body of water. The Strait of Juan de Fuca is an arm of the sea, and it only has two shores.

--Wisconsin and Illinois are on the same shore of Lake Michigan, the Western shore. Victoria, British Columbia is on a different shore of the Strait of Juan de Fuca than Anacortes, Washington. Victoria is on the Northern shore, and Anacortes is on the Eastern Shore, an extension of the Southern Shore

--Wisconsin and Illinois are both part of the mainland. Victoria British Columbia is an island.

posted 05-06-2011 09:53 PM ET (US)            

I kind of depends how far south Haro Strait runs. It looks like a realatively direct route from Anacortes to Vancover, one who "nick" (not cross) the northern part of the Strait Juan De Fucus.

Kind of like launching on the south side of a river but never touching the northern side of the river. Do you actually cross the river?

posted 05-07-2011 01:29 AM ET (US)            

quote:

---

The Strait of Juan de Fuca is an arm of the sea, and it only has two shores.

---

Jim -- That is correct. There is a South shore and a North shore. Anacortes lies north of the North shore. Victoria is on the North shore. You do not cross the Straight traveling between them.

posted 05-07-2011 08:56 AM ET (US)            

The fundamental flaw in your logic is the assumption that the Straight of Juan deFuca turns and continues up the east shore of Vancouver Island. It does not. This body of water is called Haro Straight.

posted 05-07-2011 10:30 AM ET (US)            

I think it is clear that everyone agrees that my proposed route (which I described above) involves a crossing. Note that in the initial article, OldToby said "... I'm going to take a 16-foot boat across to Victoria...." He further said, "...this specific subject--the Victoria crossing..."

Tom Clark was first to reply and referred to the voyage as having the potential to be "...a very easy crossing..."

At that point I altered the TOPIC line to reflect a "crossing," and then there began a considerable sidebar debate--which has since taken over the entire thread--about the proper name for the body of water which is being crossed.

The source of the name of the body of water which I have used is NOAA. I took the name of the body of water from the NOAA chart. Specifically, I took it from the NOAA electronic chart--which, as far as I know (and here I may risk introducing another sidebar discussion) is acceptable as the legally required navigation chart for the portion of that water in the United States. I mention all this because I want to be clear that I did not pull the name out of a hat or from my own memory or from someone's self-published website definition. I got the name from NOAA.

posted 05-07-2011 11:39 AM ET (US)            

Toby, check out AIS for another perspective.

http://marinetraffic.com/ais/#

mkj

posted 05-07-2011 11:50 AM ET (US)            

You are correct that Anacortes and Victoria do not lie on the same shore. There is no dispute about that. You have to cross Rosario Straight and Haro Straight to get to Victoria from Anacortes.

You can continue to tilt at this windmill all you want, but you are not going to change the geography.

Toby came here looking for advice for his planned trip to the San Juan Islands and subsequent trip to Victoria. A number of participants here have offered advice for his trip.

You have introduced a completely peripheral discussion of the Straight of Juan de Fuca and steered the discussion completely away from Toby's trip, and in the process, changed the subject line four or five times now to reflect your agenda.

posted 05-09-2011 01:12 PM ET (US)            

It is understood that the route Jim proposed does not take you through the San Juan Islands, but that does not mean it crosses the Straight of Juan de Fuca either.

I do give Jim credit though; you are the first person in over 100 posts to agree with him on that point.

This is a long thread with two distinct parts:

1 - Advice for Toby and his trip to the San Juan Islands and subsequent crossing to Victoria.

2 - The academic argument of whether you cross the Straight of Juan de Fuca traveling from Anacortes to Victoria, leaving the San Juan Islands to the North.

The former has been addressed. The latter remains under debate. Let's review what we all agree on.

- NOAA charts are accurate. In spite of claims to the contrary, nobody here has said, or implied, that any of the relevant NOAA charts are inaccurate or mislabeled.

- A Straight has two shores, and to cross a Straight one travels from one shore to the other.

- Traveling from Anacortes to Victoria, leaving the San Juan Islands to the North exposes you to the open waters of the Straight of Juan de Fuca.

None of those three points is in question. We all agree on those facts. The sole point of contention is whether you cross the Straight of Juan de Fuca while traveling this route.

Peter and I have pointed out that while you may be traveling along a short portion of the periphery of the Straight of Juan de Fuca along this route, you are not crossing the Straight of Juan de Fuca. We both made the same analogy of traveling by boat from Milwaukee to Chicago, pointing out that one would not consider that a crossing of Lake Michigan.

Jim countered that because you can walk from Milwaukee to Chicago, they lie on the same shore and thus our analogy does not work, as you cannot walk from Anacortes to Victoria.

Unfortunately for Jim and his logic, you can walk from Milwaukee to Muskegon too, and I do not think anybody would try to argue that if you boated from Milwaukee to Muskegon you would not have crossed Lake Michigan. Whether you can walk between two points is irrelevant to this discussion. We are discussing boating, not walking.

The fact remains that the Straight of Juan de Fuca has two shores, a south shore and a north shore. Jim's route does not take you anywhere near the South shore, only along a short section of the North shore, as Victoria Harbor does open to the Straight of Juan de Fuca.

Anacortes (Skyline anyway) lies on Rosario Straight, not the Straight of Juan de Fuca. Traveling form Anacortes takes you down the Rosario Straight to the South end of Lopez Island where Rosario Straight meets the Straight of Juan de Fuca. This point is almost 20 miles for the South shore of the Straight of Juan de Fuca, and is as about as close as you will ever get to the South shore following Jim's route.

posted 05-09-2011 01:31 PM ET (US)         

You crack me up Mr Clark.

Thank you for brightening my days.

posted 05-09-2011 01:41 PM ET (US)            

"Unfortunately for Jim and his logic, you can walk from Milwaukee to Muskegon too, and I do not think anybody would try to argue that if you boated from Milwaukee to Muskegon you would not have crossed Lake Michigan."

posted 05-09-2011 02:39 PM ET (US)            

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v665/warrent/Misc/StraitofJuandeFucaA. jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v665/warrent/Misc/StraitofJuandeFucaB. jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v665/warrent/Misc/StraitofJuandeFucaC. jpg

posted 05-09-2011 02:50 PM ET (US)            

A. Do you cross Lake Michigan traveling by boat from Milwaukee to Chicago?

B. Do you cross Lake Michigan traveling by boat from Milwaukee to Muskegon?

posted 05-09-2011 03:04 PM ET (US)            

Here's a link that you might find useful.

http://marine.geogarage.com/routes

The slider on the top right side of the screen (under USA) converts the NOAA charts to Google Earth. Or you can overlay both.

Have a great trip.

posted 05-09-2011 03:58 PM ET (US)            

I know this discussion has been beaten to death, but allow me to beat it just a little more. If you're tired of it, you are free to quit reading at any point.

One of the fundamental difference between a lake (say Lake Michigan), and a straight, is that a straight is, by definition, linear. That is, it has a direction in which it is situated, with entrances at eatch end. Otherwise it is just a sea, inlet, or bay. The Straight of Juan deFuca, has a (basically) east-west situation. To "cross" said straight, you must travel (roughly) north or south, starting at one of the land masses defining it's direction and ending at the other.

In making the trip from Anacortes to Victoria, you would most certainly cross Rosario and Haro Straights, and it could be said that you would "transit" (a portion of) the Straight of Juan deFuca (herinafter referred to as "JdF"). But you do not "cross" it. In fact, one could argue that, depending on which NOAA chart you look at, the JdF's east entrance is actually at Victor Foxtrot off Race Rocks, well west of Victora. However, smaller scale charts show it continuing all the way to Sierra Alpha, at the entrance to Admiralty Inlet. Either way, none show it continuing north towards Hein Bank.

Part of what you have to understand is the fundamental difference between crossing the straight and not crossing it, as it pertains to the conditions you will encounter. Ocean swells, as well as the prevailing northwest winds, travel unabbated down the straight and pound the shore of Whidbey Island, and anything they encounter along the way. A trip across the straight (as I am defining it) is fundamentally more dangerous than a trip along it's shores, for several reasons. First, this trip leaves you exposed with nowhere to hide if conditions deteriorate. Even at the eastern end, along the shore of Whidbey Island, there is nowhere to run for cover. Yet if one was travelling along the north or south shore, there are abundant bays, harbors, and islands in and behind which one could seek shelter. Secondly, we all know that travelling in a beam sea is more dangerous and uncomfortable that going into, or with, the dominant swell and wind. By crossing the straight, you are making an extended trip in a beam sea.

By travelling from Anacortes to Victoria, although you could certainly encounter hazardous conditions, you would never be exposing yourself to the full brunt of what JdF can dish up, even if you took the southern route, staying out of the San Juans and transting the eastern portion of JdF. You are actually in the lee of Vancouver Island for the entire trip. Whatever you would be experiencing on that trip, someone to the south, who was truly "crossing" the straight, would be experiencing much worse. Thus, it is not really fair to suggest that this trip is "crossing the Straight of Juan deFuca."

posted 05-09-2011 05:11 PM ET (US)            

"Extends east from the Pacific Ocean between Vancouver Island, Canada, and the Olympic Peninsula, Washington, to Haro Strait, San Juan Channel, Rosario Strait, and Puget Sound; its Pacific Ocean boundary is formed by a line between Cape Flattery - Tatoosh Island, Washington, and Carmanah Point (Vancouver Island), British Columbia; its north boundary follows the shoreline of Vancouver Island to Gonzales Point, then follows a continuous line east to Seabird Point (Discovery Island), British Columbia; Cattle Point (San Juan Island), Washington; Iceberg Point (Lopez Island); Point Colville (Lopez Island); and then to Rosario Head (Fidalgo Island); the eastern boundary is a continuous line extending south from Rosario Head along Whidbey Island to Point Partridge and south to Point Wilson (Quimper Peninsula); the Washington mainland forms the southern boundary of the strait."

Then the blue line is the northern and eastern boundaries of the Strait of Juan de Fuca.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v665/warrent/Misc/StraitofJuandeFucaD. jpg

I must have too much tiome on my hands.

Warren

posted 05-09-2011 06:21 PM ET (US)            

My proposed course line goes from East to West, across the Strait of Juan de Fuca.

Question for Tom:

posted 05-09-2011 07:24 PM ET (US)            

If you happen to be gay, not strait, can you even cross these bodies of water?

Should we expand the conversation and argue the correct navigational terms for rounding Point No Point?

John

posted 05-09-2011 08:02 PM ET (US)            

The Strait of Wanna Puka

posted 05-09-2011 09:02 PM ET (US)            

A. Do you cross Lake Michigan traveling by boat from Milwaukee to Chicago?
--No--

B. Do you cross Lake Michigan traveling by boat from Milwaukee to Muskegon?
--Yes--

C. Is it impossible to cross Lake Michigan because it is a lake, not a straight?
--No--

posted 05-09-2011 09:38 PM ET (US)            

Coasting the shoreline (the edge of a body of water) is just like traveling along the edge of the Straight of Juan de Fuca, which you do for some portion of your described route to Victoria.

posted 05-10-2011 08:47 PM ET (US)            

Any trip on any boat regardless of size must be well planned. All the books say "seek local knowledge". If I read the "advice" offered here, I would cancel the trip idea, sell the boat and run!

Whoever said you wont "cross" the straights of Juan De Fuca is correct, but to enter Victoria harbor you will certainly be within their outer boundries. This is the area wher HAro Srtaights and The Straights of Juan De Fuca with all that Pacific Ocean influence converge. Someone also mentioned wind over current, this area is prone to that issue.

The best, safest, most predictable plan offering many great stop overs, is the "inside" route thru the US San Juans. Skyline is a good departure point no boat ramp only slings, but can have fog issues in August. A short hop across Rosario straight, thru thatcher pass, to Harney Channel, thru Pole pass (watch the tide, which should not be an issue with your boat), past Jones Island, very short hop across Presidents Channel, pass Speiden Island via Speiden Channel, Cross Haro Straight, pass Sidney Island and head direct to Sidney BC. The perfect spot to find moorage, protection and supplies at the Port of Sidney, with full access to town and great facilities, or Van Isle Marina (fuel dock there), a few bays over. A way better option than crusing into Victoria in my view and years of experience. Have a sausage roll at the Sidney Bakery for me.

Yes there is some open water, yes the weather changes, but there is a lot of protection along the way. Common sence is the key. After all you have a whaler! Do invest in some good charts and pre plot your course up front, get a tide and current table as well. A spare prop and mounting hardware may be worthwhile as well, there is a lot of crap in the water, also a lot of under water obsticles (watch the chart)Obvioiusly a good anchor, lots of rode (deep water here) and a depth sounder is a must.

Sidney is a great town. Need US passports to check into Customs, Port Sidney and Van Isle are Ports of Entry for Canadian Customs. From Sidney you can take a break acess the situation and boat to Victora, or leave the boat with no open water, or take a bus if the conditions are not so good. Buchart Gardens is in the Sidney area also accessable by boat or ground transportation. Also you can change directions and proceed the up several inside routes thru the Candian Gulf islands, Beautiful area. Otter Bay is close to Sidney, Sidney Spit marine park is great. They call it some of the best crusing areas in the world.

Sidney is the perfect central point to go wherever you want in the area.

Check back into US customs at Roach Harbor on San Juan Island. Deer Harbor on the return is a good last night lay over.

posted 09-14-2011 10:14 AM ET (US)            

This thread had already driven OldToby away for good. We will never know if he made the trip in his Eastport.

posted 09-14-2011 11:08 AM ET (US)            

However, last Friday, I did make a crossing of the Straight of Juan de Fuca. My wife and I crossed from beautiful Aleck Bay on the south end of Lopez Island to Point Wilson near Port Townsend and hence to Seattle.

posted 09-14-2011 03:52 PM ET (US)            

"This geo-nautical dissension over the location and definition of the Strait of Juan de Fuca has so upset my fine sensibilities and my desire just to see everyone get along, that I've decided to scrap the whole Anacortes-to-Victoria trip and go to Cawker City, Kansas, to see the world's second-largest largest ball of twine."

Last message from him:

"**holds head in hands and weeps quietly, thin shoulders shudder as noiseless sobs wrack his frame**

I'm afraid we wore him out....

posted 09-15-2011 09:47 AM ET (US)            

I received an email for him in July. They made it as far as Roche (not Roach) Harbor and tried twice to cross Haro Straight but strong southeast winds meant the waves were just too big to make it to Victoria in their Eastport.

Strong southeast winds can mean very big nasty waves. Last week I spent one afternoon and evening motoring into the waves generated by strong southeast winds in the South end of the Straight of Georgia, and it was uncomfortable, even though we were in a 32,000 pound sailboat that is 50 feet long.