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America's Cup Racing in USA
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ContinuousWave: The Whaler GAM or General Area
America's Cup Racing in USA
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| Author | Topic: America's Cup Racing in USA |
| jimh |
posted 11-23-2011 11:53 PM ET (US)  
I have been watching a bit of the America's Cup racing from San Diego via on-line videos. Leaving aside the Cup and sailing from the discussion, I noted that there were a great number of support boats or officials boats moving around the course with the competitors, and many of them powered by outboard engines. However, it appeared to me that the cowlings of the outboard engines had all been either re-painted to a dull gray or the cowlings were wrapped in a gray hood or cover. Any sort of manufacturer's decal or logotype on the outboard engines was obscured. Inasmuch as advertising is an import source of revenue for the event, and companies are paying dearly to have their name or logo placed on the boats, I suspect that the identity of the outboard engines was neutered so as to deny their manufacturer any unpaid exposure from their use in the racing. |
| contender |
posted 11-24-2011 12:11 AM ET (US)
The only problem with this is: what about the boats that come to watch, they can not require them to cover the cowlings...Also are there require to cover the maker of the boats as well? |
| pete r |
posted 11-24-2011 06:32 AM ET (US)
I think there are few opportunities for sailing clubs to earn income. My twin boys sail at a club which seems their whole existence rely's on advertising. Local companies can get their names, logos all over the boat. The sail in the premium spot. Because the boats are usually racing away from land and beyond normal sight, logo/adverting symbols or colours of the spinackers will indicate where the boats are placed. I get a laugh watching the parents of the teams saying their so happy to see their kids having fun. "Bullshit". The kids know the score. A win means you and your parents are pride of the club. We all look forward to the America's cup. It's the pinacle of of the sport and we are spell bound by the enormity of the event and the massive dollars invested. Our sailing regatta pails into insignificance and people say the America cups a farce and demonstrates money has wins in the end. |
| lizard |
posted 11-24-2011 09:36 AM ET (US)
All of the race support boats (medical, press, escort, VIP, timing, etc.) were these unique little twin hulled boats (whose manufacturer I tried to identify, without success) had shrouds on the motor cowlings. They had yellow. green or orange hull colors, based on race function. Some of the RIBs that supported individual race boats had shrouds, others did not. The speculation amongst observers is that it was required for the exact purpose Jim suggests- manufacturer(s) did not provide any buy-in and therefore was denied exposure. I did see one set of twin Yamahas exposed on one support boat, will check my photos. If anyone can identify the manufacturer of the race support boats, I would love to know. |
| boatdryver |
posted 11-24-2011 09:47 AM ET (US)
That first photo at least shows the shape of the cowling. Someone on this site should be able to make the ID unless the shape has been altered. JimL |
| lizard |
posted 11-24-2011 09:55 AM ET (US)
That is just one shot boatdryver. There were other sized/shaped cowlings on the various support boats. I am interested in the manufacturer of the hull. |
| IGN |
posted 11-24-2011 11:23 AM ET (US)
What ever happed to the days when this event was on TV? I used to look forward to each race. |
| elaelap |
posted 11-24-2011 12:09 PM ET (US)
Google <America's Cup coverage> and you'll find plenty of venues carrying reports. Here's just one: http://www.youtube.com/user/AmericasCup I suspect the finals (to be held in S.F. Bay, yippee!) will be covered live by one or more of the TV heavy-weights. I intend to be on the Bay in my Montauk during the finals, though I don't know how close the spectator boats will be allowed to gather. Tony |
| Dave Sutton |
posted 11-24-2011 12:32 PM ET (US)
"What ever happed to the days when this event was on TV? I used to look forward to each race"
I used to look forward to the New York Yacht Club winning every time, well from 1857 to 1983 at least .... ;-)
. |
| wezie |
posted 11-24-2011 01:52 PM ET (US)
Some one relaxed the requirements on Nationality of equipment, skippers and crew. That led to the current situation. Good or bad. For the most part, sailboat racing is a very difficult sport to watch. When it left Newport, the race and interest improved. |
| JayR |
posted 11-24-2011 02:57 PM ET (US)
I miss those races being in Newport. Seems I don't hear much about the Cup since it left the area. It was a huge draw for tourism here in RI for a long time and I had hoped it would return. |
| pete r |
posted 11-24-2011 05:07 PM ET (US)
I agree, When it left NY it also lost a lot of charm. I remember when I was a kid we would hear about boats going off to the US to challange for the cup. Our captain's were really ammired as though they were off to a war. The cigarette companies would jump on the band wagon and promote our challenger with a soul stiring catchy gingle. We would try to watch race on TV and vaguely understood the race because of the delayed and stop start footage the TV stations struggled to get to us. We might have won one or two races, but then we would be thumped in the rest. |
| lizard |
posted 11-24-2011 05:56 PM ET (US)
While a big fan of the 12 meter race boats, I have to tell you that there is something equally engaging about the current cats. We had a great time watching, one day from the northern end of the bay and the other, from the southern starting point. There is a LOT of money in this event. |
| pete r |
posted 11-24-2011 06:48 PM ET (US)
During the 80's to 90's We had the Little America's cup sailed in catamaran's on our local bay until you guys won it back with a strange looking super high-tech vertical wing looking monster. |
| contender |
posted 11-24-2011 08:18 PM ET (US)
Lizard: The catamaran yellow and blue hull looks like a boat made out of Australia |
| pete r |
posted 11-24-2011 11:41 PM ET (US)
Contender, It's looks like a boat I saw in the latest mag I have. I don't like the ugly topsides at the bow. |
| pete r |
posted 11-25-2011 01:00 AM ET (US)
The Aussie's don't have a boat in the race, however we have 2 Aussie's as skippers and other duties. The Kiwis as usual will be hard to beat. |
| macfam |
posted 11-25-2011 07:00 AM ET (US)
The cat boat looks like a commercial NoosaCat from Australia. Catamarans are everywhere in Australia. Very practical. |
| Binkster |
posted 11-25-2011 08:30 AM ET (US)
Dick Bertram was a wealthy Miami boatyard and mariner owner and future builder of Bertram Yachts and a regular competitor in America's Cup at Newport RI in the 1950s. During the race of '57 I believe, during extremely rough water conditions at the staging area before the beginning of the race, he noticed a support boat of one of the competitors cutting through the rough waters at a fairly high speed, while all the other support vessels were wallowing in the rough seas. these boats were all inboard cruiser type boats at the time. After the race he inquired about this support boat and found that is was 27ft. long, and designed by Ray Hunt and built by Bill Dyer, of RI, and had a new design deep V 24 degree deadrise bottom. Well, he wanted one for himself to run around Biscayne Bay in. So contacted Hunt and he had one built at 31' and out of wood. The boat was named Moppie after his wife. Some of Bertram's friends were offshore racers, which at the time was a new sport and was started in Europe in the mid 1950's. They told him that his boat would be unbeatable in the Miami to Nassau and back race. This race was a two day event, with the boats docking overnight in Nassau. Bertram enters Moppie in this race in 1958, and gets over to Nassau and back in less then one day and the rest as they say is history. His wooden 31 footer became the plug for the Bertram 31, and a couple of years later Jim Wynne, inventor of the outdrive and developed by Volvo, built his own deep V raceboat a 16 footer powered by a Volvo inboard and I/O, and creamed many of the bigger boats. this boat later became the Sweet sixteen Donzi, when built by Don Aronow. So this obscure 27' America's Cup support boat changed the face of power boating and is still revilant in most designs today, and put Bertram, Ray Hunt, in the national spotlight. |
| K Albus |
posted 11-25-2011 10:37 AM ET (US)
Lizard - It looks like the boats you are asking about are LeisureCats from Australia, either the 7000 Gamefisher or 8000 Sportsfisher model. See: http://www.leisurecat.com.au/index.html |
| Powergroove803 |
posted 11-25-2011 11:54 AM ET (US)
Money wins many events in sporting these days, but with the switch to the catamaran for this AC the playing field has been leveled to a certain degree. surely there are bigger budgets, but as I watch these boats they are all designed very siilarly, and all have the wing sail. I race "A" cats, which is basically the development cat for these boats and all of catamaran technology for the last 30 years so I have a good perspective on it. The biggest challenge for these crews is the learning curve on these boats compared to a 10 knot monohull. These boats are hitting speeds of 28 knots in 18 knots of wind, and things happen so fast that if you do not know the correcting move to perform and/or hesistate a split second too late, you crash. The closing speeds on these cats when sailing on a course with multiple boats is so quick that every move has to be planned well in advance to avoid collisons and stay within your "rights" on your course. (look up youtube video of crash at Plymouth for a good idea, and notice the rudder stall when the skipper jammed the rudders over to avoid the collision without depowering the sail first) There are 2 or 3 catamaran skippers(Darren Bundock and Jimmy spithill, both from australia), so these guys you will see at the top most every race, but anything can happen. The events that are taking place now are the precursor to the actual America's Cup event, whch we all hope will be picked up by ESPN or some other big TV, and the show that you will see will be high drama, high tech, high performance, and probably the best thing that ever happened to sailboat racing in the last 100 years. |
| lizard |
posted 11-25-2011 02:53 PM ET (US)
Kevin- Thanks for the link, that is, in fact, the boat. In the attached youtube link, you will one, in orange, as the cat plants it's bow. |
| IGN |
posted 11-25-2011 04:39 PM ET (US)
I am sure its going to be fun its just hard to see it evolve away from the mono hulls |
| pete r |
posted 11-25-2011 05:47 PM ET (US)
You guys are on the ball. I Couldn't find my latest boating mag. Looks like there is no need with your help. I love the look of those 45' cats, sort of evil looking. The 90 footers are going to be awesome, however I worry they may lose touch with human scale. What I mean by that is, it's like comparing boats to ships or houses to high rise buildings. Their scale ratio is too vast for me. I reckon those 45 footer's look exciting enough to appeal to today's restless teenagers. Second thoughts, No... It will take more than that to draw their attention away from mindless computer games. |
| Powergroove803 |
posted 11-25-2011 06:04 PM ET (US)
Here is the crash I was speaking of, now granted this is when they were just learning these boats, but an america's Cup caliber skipper should have more control over their craft than this guy from Alinghi. |
| pete r |
posted 11-26-2011 05:28 AM ET (US)
These guys are the best, but like many sportsman, even of that calbre are susceptible to what I term as brain fade. I refer to our very best professional footballers for example. |
| jimp |
posted 11-26-2011 04:19 PM ET (US)
I made it to several of the the Cup races in 1970 when Intrepid beat Gretel II. Very sad in 1983 when Liberty lost the Cup for the USA to Australia II. Outstanding racing down in Freemantle when Stars and Stripes won it back beating Kookaburra III. The 12s in Newport would call off racing when the winds got up to 15-18. In Freemantle they raced in 35 knots of wind - VERY exciting for a 12! But the end was really 1983 when it went to the courts to decide if Australia II's keel was legal. Since then it's been the courts and big money. It also used to be each country used it own assets: people and equipment. Now USA uses a New Zealand skipper, people sail wherever they want and nobody cares where the equipment comes from. Who's got the most money is what counts. What happened to the sportsmanship of Sir Thomas Lipton? JimP |
| pete r |
posted 11-26-2011 06:44 PM ET (US)
I remember 'Dame Pattie' and Grettel being protested when ever they got a shoe in. We were always of the opinion that if NY lost on the track, then the opponent would be hit by a specialist team of lawyers in the protest room. International coaching raised it's head many years ago and I believe that's a good thing. It can give a deprived nation possibility of competing on the world stage and like in most sports, it's great to see a good turn out of different teams. In recent years sports has become big bucks because of pay TV. Computer modelling is carried out now to access the potential of players and even star players from other codes sports they may be able to amalgamate. Funny, right at this very point in time there is a lot of heated discussion on the radio about our once all mighty cricket team, now being hammered by the mixed international teams. |
| Dave Sutton |
posted 11-26-2011 06:50 PM ET (US)
"What happened to the sportsmanship of Sir Thomas Lipton?" Indeed... it was legendary. Still is in yachting circles. Even more interesting: What happened to the requirement that the challenger sailed the boat on it's own bottom to meet the defender on the defenders home waters? That was how they ensured that only seaworthy boats would challenge...
. |
| pete r |
posted 11-27-2011 12:10 AM ET (US)
Dave, I prefer the way it was too |
| David Pendleton |
posted 11-27-2011 12:41 AM ET (US)
Back in the late seventies and early eighties, by brother and I parked cars for the America's Cup races. A cat or tri-hull was absolutely unthinkable in those days. |
| egres |
posted 11-27-2011 04:00 AM ET (US)
As for the [concealing of outboard brands], money talks and [BS] walks. We are talking about mega-bucks in manufacturing and designs of the newest and fastest sailing hulls. I doubt very much that the outboard manufacturing companies sponsorship were involved in these events. This is an actual PRIME sailing event and not much to do at all about sponsoring from the outboards manufacturers. I wish that I actually could sponsor such a fine sailing beauty And will make my peace in admiring these beauties and still enjoy the waters in my Classic hull. |
| Sfef84 |
posted 11-28-2011 12:27 AM ET (US)
Grew up in Coronado,CA and have seen a lot of these races. I never really paid much attention to the make of the committe boats but in the past they have been Beneteau. |
| alfred |
posted 11-28-2011 07:04 AM ET (US)
For the 1987 America's Cup, Dennis Conner used the wharf that I was dock master at for the University of Hawaii out on Sand Island. The three (or was it four) 12-meter yachts he had there were really magnificent vessels. I think the fastest in testing was the hull designated 85 [58?]. BETSY the tender had the most awesome speaker system I have every heard. They would play music while working on the boats and it was free entertainment for the whole of Sand Island. To practice for the windy conditions they were expecting, every time there was a storm warning, he and his crew would rig up and head out for a practice, while the rest of us were hunkering down. |
| jimh |
posted 11-28-2011 08:10 AM ET (US)
The closest I have been to America's Cup competition occurred when I got to take the helm of STARS AND STRIPES--the actual Cup Defender USA 57--in Saint Marten about ten years ago. It was fun to hold the hold the wheel and yell "Ready about," then tack a 12-meter. There is a fleet of retired 12-meter AC yachts down there that you can go out on for mock racing. |
| jimp |
posted 11-28-2011 12:53 PM ET (US)
jimh - That's pretty darn close! I'm envious! jimp |
| bluewaterpirate |
posted 11-28-2011 01:30 PM ET (US)
Thanks to Ben at Panbo. His article answers alot of the questions posted in this thread. http://www.panbo.com/archives/2011/11/ac34_garmin_the_support_fleet.html Tom |
| lizard |
posted 11-28-2011 02:20 PM ET (US)
BWP- excellent link and reading, thank you. |
| bluewaterpirate |
posted 11-28-2011 02:30 PM ET (US)
Thanks .... The three cats in one of the Panbo pictures are made by LeisureCats Model 8000 Sportsfisher. Here's their website link. http://www.leisurecat.com.au/LC8000Sportsfisher.html Tom |
| pete r |
posted 11-28-2011 04:37 PM ET (US)
Raced against John Bertam and Dennis Conners in Etchells at our local yacht club once. It was a surreal feeling. We had hoped to keep near them to get some tips. Typically they just took off at every leg. |
| alfred |
posted 11-29-2011 09:24 AM ET (US)
57 was the sail number, 85 was the hull designation. Never got to take the wheel, but did get a few sails in and they just went like freight trains - unstoppable what a ride! |
| alfred |
posted 11-29-2011 09:27 AM ET (US)
BWP - all the Au Leisure Cats are actually made in Malaysia. |
| pete r |
posted 11-30-2011 06:18 AM ET (US)
just about everything we use to make here is going offshore. |
| Sourpuss1 |
posted 11-30-2011 08:42 PM ET (US)
Sad but true. |
| boatdryver |
posted 12-03-2011 10:41 AM ET (US)
I also have a special fondness toward seaworthy monohull sailboats. I came pretty close to the wrong kind of fame during the Intrepid vs. Dame Patty America's Cup races off Newport R. I. I was in the co-pilot's seat (left seat in a helo) of a Coast Guard Helicopter. (see link below) Our mission was to keep the race course free of spectator boats. There was a 12 foot Beetle Cat directly in the way of Intrepid. We hovered nearby and told the crew to get the $#@#$% out of the way using our bullhorn. Of course you know what happened next. Our downwash flattened the tiny sailboat and tossed the two teenagers into the cold water. There was nothing else to do but rescue by lowering our basket (no such thing as rescue swimmers back then), with Intrepid bearing down on us at about 10 knots. I had the left window open, keeping the aircraft commander apprised of the approaching 12 meter mast, which was higher than our rotor. I'll never forget the sound of our rotor wash blasting the sails of Intrepid, knocking her down, as she passed about 75 yards from our rotor tips. The aircraft commander was a career Coastie and he said "there goes my career". There were photos of the whole thing in the newspapers the next day but nothing happened to my friend's career since Intrepid went on to win the race anyway. Now, fast forward to 2010. I was sailing with a friend out of Stonington CT, and we happened to visit the Herreschoff museum in Bristol, RI. I bought a used book, "Defending America's Cup" by Mosbacher, et al. Back on board the sailboat, I was amazed to find a photograph of the event (see link below) and a description by an Intrepid crewman named Toby Tobin. Even more amazing is the fact that Toby Tobin is the father of a friend here at out tiny Inverness Yacht Club, here in Northern California. Small world, indeed. http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c391/boatdryver/Amercupheloscan012.jpg Intrepid is the boat to the right JimL |
| elaelap |
posted 12-03-2011 01:54 PM ET (US)
A priceless tale, Jim! Are you and FogDog going to be part of the spectator fleet in SF Bay for the finals? Maybe we should start some early planning for an America's Cup rendezvous. Tony |
| lizard |
posted 12-03-2011 03:28 PM ET (US)
Tony- count me in, even if I have to deadhead on someone else's rig. |
| boatdryver |
posted 12-03-2011 04:26 PM ET (US)
Yes, Tony.I imagine course every boatowner interested in sailing is probably wondering whether being part of the spectator fleet will be worth all the craziness. I've been out on boats in SF Bay during Fleet Week during the Blue Angels air show and I can testify that the person on the helm is too busy to do much spectating. At least this summer I believe they will be still sailing the AC 45's and the spectator boats may be able to get close enough to see. After what happened at the Reno Air Races I think race committee is going to take no chances with spectator boats being in the wrong place. I'm counting on the committee to take full advantage of modern telecommunications and produce really great HDTV coverage for the first time. JimL |
| elaelap |
posted 12-03-2011 05:31 PM ET (US)
I think the TV/movie coverage will be especially thrilling with the backdrop of San Francisco, Berkeley, the Bay and the Golden Gate bridges, Alcatraz, Angel Island, Tiburon & Sausalito emphasizing the incredible speed of these huge cats. And you're undoubtedly right, Jim -- probably the very worst place to actually see what's happening will be in the undoubtedly well-regulated spectator fleet (I know what you mean about Fleet Week; I've been out there for several). On the other hand, I've just gotta be on the water for at least one of the races, just to feel a part of it all. We keep our sloop in the SF Marina/Gashouse Cove, right next to the St Francis Yacht Club and due south of Alcatraz, so hopefully we're going to have a great view (and Marina parking!) from there. We'll probably stay on the boat in her slip for several days during the race (unless, heh heh, some filthy rich outa-towner offers us a lot of bucks to do the same). I think I can squeeze my Montauk into our narrow slip and raft next to the sailboat. Anyway, I think a Whaler rendezvous is called for. What do some of the rest of you think? Tony |
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