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Author Topic:   Docking Lines

contender posted 12-07-2011 09:28 PM ET (US)
I found it to be very convent to use stainless steel snap carabiners (2000lbs working load) with an eyelets tied to the end of my dock lines. Having the carabiners on the lines I'm able to disconnect them, connect them together, or move them with in seconds if needed. The other end of my lines I have 10 inch eye splices in them. I use double braided nylon for rope. Is or have anyone else ever tried doing this?
macfam posted 12-07-2011 10:49 PM ET (US)
Contender---Funny you should ask. On our 13-foot Super Sport, we have two braided lines, one fixed to the Starboard aft lifting eye and one to the bow eye. They are both attached with the spliced eye, and at the other end with SS carabiners. We also have our 10-foot inflatable setup with the braided line and clip on the bow eye. Our mooring ball for the Whaler has a larger ring on the top to quickly clip or unclip. Super easy.
We use both boats with our 28 Albin, which has huge SS cleats, bow, mid and aft which is easily clipped with these lines and carabiners when we board. On the Albin mooring we have a dual pennant with spliced eyes, one with another clip, and a pick-up buoy with a clip. When we depart leaving one of the boats on the mooring, the dual pennant, boat, and pick-up buoy are all clipped together with SS carabiners. Quick and easy.
I suppose a true "old salt" would find this unacceptable, but I love them.
RevengeFamily posted 12-07-2011 10:51 PM ET (US)
I have used stainless clips on my stern lines for many years without failure or damage to the boat. They are conveniant to use but that is the only location I use them.
Norm
Agntvbb posted 12-07-2011 10:58 PM ET (US)
In calm conditions the 'biners are probably fine, but I wonder about metal on metal stresses in heavy weather. The rythmic thrashing will take a toll on metal. Rope has a lot of give and knots take very little time to tie when mastered.
http://www.netknots.com/html/boating_knots.html
Chuck Tribolet posted 12-07-2011 11:03 PM ET (US)
I have a brass snap on my starboard stern dock line, which
line I almost never use. This allows me to use it as a tag
line to clip off dive gear when there are four divers aboard
(very rare). There are three other tag lines midships that
are normally used. The other thing it lets me do is remove
that line, and clip it to the port stern dock line. That
double length line is handy when I'm single-handing onto the
trailer.
The stern lines are 3/8" three strand twisted. The bow line
is 3/8" red double-braid. It's red to differentiate it from
the anchor line. If I could have found red three-strand I'd
have used it.
I do have a couple of SS carabiners on board and have used
them to connect the two stern lines as a towing bridle. One
of them clips the bitter end of the anchor line to the lifting
eye. If I need to leave an anchorage in a hurry, I can just
unclip, clip to a fender, and toss the anchor line over the
side. I only have to do this every few years to assist with
a dive emergency off somebody else's boat.

Chuck
kwik_wurk posted 12-08-2011 01:38 AM ET (US)
As dock lines, they are fine. I use the exact same thing, they clip into railing stanchions and all the eyes perfectly on the Montauk.
I have tons of large 4 3/4" offset eye, 316 SS, carabiners (aka snap hooks). The problem is they are expensive and I have returned to my boat to find a few missing. The large ones are $30 a pop, and having at least 4-6 on the boat, makes them walk away somehow.
I strongly suggest against using them on a mooring buoy or similar. As they can get twisted and un-clip if there is no locking mechanism. -- I watched this happen once on my own buoy while having lunch in the house. -- Needless to say I found something else to use.
IGN posted 12-08-2011 02:08 PM ET (US)
I have used them for years on my mooring bouy on Hoods Canal in the PNW. Now if some heavy weather is forcast I would certainly double tie for insurance. But for every day use it certainly has merit.
pete r posted 12-08-2011 07:28 PM ET (US)
I used to be involved sailing 40' race yachts where there are huge loads and stresses on rigging. I'm talking failure ratings of many tons.
Providing you buy the quality grade Stainless fittings you have no worries. Watch out for the recent mass produced cheap one's.
Note, that stainless steel suffers from fatigue and even though it still seems safe on visual inspection, it does'nt yield like softer metals, which you can detect early warning signs of failure.
Most yachties are aware they must replace structural S.S. fittings about every 5 years.
Saying all that, I have medium grade 304 S.S. shackles/connectors for fenders, mooring and tow lines.
If you are requiring a more secure connection then look at the ones they have on life lines or climbing safety lines which have a double release action.
Tohsgib posted 12-09-2011 01:40 PM ET (US)
Growing up on small Whalers I have always used brass hooks. When I slide into my slip you just grab the line off the piling(hook hangs from a nail) clip it to the outside eye. Walk over to the other side and do the same. The bow I had 2 lines with eyes that would just go over the norman pin...docked and tied in under a minute and your lines are ALWAYS the correct length.
towboater posted 12-12-2011 03:30 AM ET (US)
Handy gizmo's.
FYI, I have bent a 1/2 dia SS "carabiner" with 1/2" import poly rope; blue steel, basically crab pot rope and it was used. I was on the Tug, gentle steady pull on a 10 x 22 sport dock we built. I usually use a hook but we had this carabiner laying around, light lines, we just snapped in and I started backing it away.
That thing let go and we all ducked, hehe, nobody hurt.
I dont trust em, the steel is strong but the snap/clip/hinge configuration IS NOT.
General rule of thumb; steel connectors need to be one size larger than the dia of a wire cable. In the case of these ss carabiners or D snap connectors, I think you should include rope size with this formula to be sure.
Im all for using them to moor a boat in the same place, same dock all the time or quick temporary riggine but just to be sure, toss in a fixed 3rd "insurance line" midships. In case either end lets go, you are covered.
mkj
SpongeBob posted 12-12-2011 03:06 PM ET (US)
Don't keep anything in the water now but I have used a variation on Nick's method on a couple of sailboats. For the bow I had a continuous line long enough to reach both port and starboard dock cleats with enough slack for mooring. In the middle of that line were two eye splices with about 2 ft. of open line between the splices. The eyes were just big enough to go over the Sampson Post (whaler equiv. Norman pin), the open line between the eyes was different on each boat but was big enough to wrap around under the bowsprit. Once that line was adjusted for the dock tie up was simple. I made big hook out of pressure treated and fixed it to the dock between the dock cleats. To leave the dock I only had to remove the eyes from the Sampson Post hang the middle of the line on the hook. Returning was a reverse, and I only had to handle one bow line each time. Wouldn't work for the stern but was great on the bow.
Jeff
contender posted 12-12-2011 03:54 PM ET (US)
Spongebob, I did something similar, when I lived in the Keys. I did not keep the boat in the water, but when I was using it I set up a pulley system from one of the docking pilings back to land. On one of the lines (bottom one) I attached two lead lines with brass hooks, Long enough for the tide change, I would hook one on the front bow eye and the other on one of the lifting rings in the back. I also had a spare line on the other lifting ring back to land. Now to keep the boat off the dock you would just pull the pulley line and place the boat in the middle of the dock and the front piling. Take care
David Pendleton posted 12-14-2011 08:03 PM ET (US)
If you guys are looking for carabiners with superior strength, you need to buy carabiners designed for climbing, preferably in steel.
I have a steel Petzl carabiner whose breaking strength is 41kN (~9200lbs). I keep this on hand for towing.
I also have an aluminum alloy carabiner (also Petzl) with a breaking strength of 23kN (~5100lbs) that I use for rafting, docking and making-fast when there are no cleats available (in conjunction with Black Diamond stoppers, also designed for climbing).
wezie posted 12-17-2011 10:41 AM ET (US)
I can see the convenience and even utility of these snaps and hooks.
Mooring buoys etc.
Personally I do not like metal to metal; that is all.
Noisy and abrasive.

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Author	Topic: Docking Lines
contender	posted 12-07-2011 09:28 PM ET (US) I found it to be very convent to use stainless steel snap carabiners (2000lbs working load) with an eyelets tied to the end of my dock lines. Having the carabiners on the lines I'm able to disconnect them, connect them together, or move them with in seconds if needed. The other end of my lines I have 10 inch eye splices in them. I use double braided nylon for rope. Is or have anyone else ever tried doing this?
macfam	posted 12-07-2011 10:49 PM ET (US) Contender---Funny you should ask. On our 13-foot Super Sport, we have two braided lines, one fixed to the Starboard aft lifting eye and one to the bow eye. They are both attached with the spliced eye, and at the other end with SS carabiners. We also have our 10-foot inflatable setup with the braided line and clip on the bow eye. Our mooring ball for the Whaler has a larger ring on the top to quickly clip or unclip. Super easy. We use both boats with our 28 Albin, which has huge SS cleats, bow, mid and aft which is easily clipped with these lines and carabiners when we board. On the Albin mooring we have a dual pennant with spliced eyes, one with another clip, and a pick-up buoy with a clip. When we depart leaving one of the boats on the mooring, the dual pennant, boat, and pick-up buoy are all clipped together with SS carabiners. Quick and easy. I suppose a true "old salt" would find this unacceptable, but I love them.
RevengeFamily	posted 12-07-2011 10:51 PM ET (US) I have used stainless clips on my stern lines for many years without failure or damage to the boat. They are conveniant to use but that is the only location I use them. Norm
Agntvbb	posted 12-07-2011 10:58 PM ET (US) In calm conditions the 'biners are probably fine, but I wonder about metal on metal stresses in heavy weather. The rythmic thrashing will take a toll on metal. Rope has a lot of give and knots take very little time to tie when mastered. http://www.netknots.com/html/boating_knots.html
Chuck Tribolet	posted 12-07-2011 11:03 PM ET (US) I have a brass snap on my starboard stern dock line, which line I almost never use. This allows me to use it as a tag line to clip off dive gear when there are four divers aboard (very rare). There are three other tag lines midships that are normally used. The other thing it lets me do is remove that line, and clip it to the port stern dock line. That double length line is handy when I'm single-handing onto the trailer. The stern lines are 3/8" three strand twisted. The bow line is 3/8" red double-braid. It's red to differentiate it from the anchor line. If I could have found red three-strand I'd have used it. I do have a couple of SS carabiners on board and have used them to connect the two stern lines as a towing bridle. One of them clips the bitter end of the anchor line to the lifting eye. If I need to leave an anchorage in a hurry, I can just unclip, clip to a fender, and toss the anchor line over the side. I only have to do this every few years to assist with a dive emergency off somebody else's boat. Chuck
kwik_wurk	posted 12-08-2011 01:38 AM ET (US) As dock lines, they are fine. I use the exact same thing, they clip into railing stanchions and all the eyes perfectly on the Montauk. I have tons of large 4 3/4" offset eye, 316 SS, carabiners (aka snap hooks). The problem is they are expensive and I have returned to my boat to find a few missing. The large ones are $30 a pop, and having at least 4-6 on the boat, makes them walk away somehow. I strongly suggest against using them on a mooring buoy or similar. As they can get twisted and un-clip if there is no locking mechanism. -- I watched this happen once on my own buoy while having lunch in the house. -- Needless to say I found something else to use.
IGN	posted 12-08-2011 02:08 PM ET (US) I have used them for years on my mooring bouy on Hoods Canal in the PNW. Now if some heavy weather is forcast I would certainly double tie for insurance. But for every day use it certainly has merit.
pete r	posted 12-08-2011 07:28 PM ET (US) I used to be involved sailing 40' race yachts where there are huge loads and stresses on rigging. I'm talking failure ratings of many tons. Providing you buy the quality grade Stainless fittings you have no worries. Watch out for the recent mass produced cheap one's. Note, that stainless steel suffers from fatigue and even though it still seems safe on visual inspection, it does'nt yield like softer metals, which you can detect early warning signs of failure. Most yachties are aware they must replace structural S.S. fittings about every 5 years. Saying all that, I have medium grade 304 S.S. shackles/connectors for fenders, mooring and tow lines. If you are requiring a more secure connection then look at the ones they have on life lines or climbing safety lines which have a double release action.
Tohsgib	posted 12-09-2011 01:40 PM ET (US) Growing up on small Whalers I have always used brass hooks. When I slide into my slip you just grab the line off the piling(hook hangs from a nail) clip it to the outside eye. Walk over to the other side and do the same. The bow I had 2 lines with eyes that would just go over the norman pin...docked and tied in under a minute and your lines are ALWAYS the correct length.
towboater	posted 12-12-2011 03:30 AM ET (US) Handy gizmo's. FYI, I have bent a 1/2 dia SS "carabiner" with 1/2" import poly rope; blue steel, basically crab pot rope and it was used. I was on the Tug, gentle steady pull on a 10 x 22 sport dock we built. I usually use a hook but we had this carabiner laying around, light lines, we just snapped in and I started backing it away. That thing let go and we all ducked, hehe, nobody hurt. I dont trust em, the steel is strong but the snap/clip/hinge configuration IS NOT. General rule of thumb; steel connectors need to be one size larger than the dia of a wire cable. In the case of these ss carabiners or D snap connectors, I think you should include rope size with this formula to be sure. Im all for using them to moor a boat in the same place, same dock all the time or quick temporary riggine but just to be sure, toss in a fixed 3rd "insurance line" midships. In case either end lets go, you are covered. mkj
SpongeBob	posted 12-12-2011 03:06 PM ET (US) Don't keep anything in the water now but I have used a variation on Nick's method on a couple of sailboats. For the bow I had a continuous line long enough to reach both port and starboard dock cleats with enough slack for mooring. In the middle of that line were two eye splices with about 2 ft. of open line between the splices. The eyes were just big enough to go over the Sampson Post (whaler equiv. Norman pin), the open line between the eyes was different on each boat but was big enough to wrap around under the bowsprit. Once that line was adjusted for the dock tie up was simple. I made big hook out of pressure treated and fixed it to the dock between the dock cleats. To leave the dock I only had to remove the eyes from the Sampson Post hang the middle of the line on the hook. Returning was a reverse, and I only had to handle one bow line each time. Wouldn't work for the stern but was great on the bow. Jeff
contender	posted 12-12-2011 03:54 PM ET (US) Spongebob, I did something similar, when I lived in the Keys. I did not keep the boat in the water, but when I was using it I set up a pulley system from one of the docking pilings back to land. On one of the lines (bottom one) I attached two lead lines with brass hooks, Long enough for the tide change, I would hook one on the front bow eye and the other on one of the lifting rings in the back. I also had a spare line on the other lifting ring back to land. Now to keep the boat off the dock you would just pull the pulley line and place the boat in the middle of the dock and the front piling. Take care
David Pendleton	posted 12-14-2011 08:03 PM ET (US) If you guys are looking for carabiners with superior strength, you need to buy carabiners designed for climbing, preferably in steel. I have a steel Petzl carabiner whose breaking strength is 41kN (~9200lbs). I keep this on hand for towing. I also have an aluminum alloy carabiner (also Petzl) with a breaking strength of 23kN (~5100lbs) that I use for rafting, docking and making-fast when there are no cleats available (in conjunction with Black Diamond stoppers, also designed for climbing).
wezie	posted 12-17-2011 10:41 AM ET (US) I can see the convenience and even utility of these snaps and hooks. Mooring buoys etc. Personally I do not like metal to metal; that is all. Noisy and abrasive.