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Author Topic:   OBD II tool for towing

NJCoastFlyFish posted 04-12-2012 09:04 AM ET (US)
I am a little paranoid by nature and wanted to see what my transmission temps, engine coolant temps, rear differential temps, and engine oil temps are when driving highway speeds with and without a boat. My first idea was to use an IR gun and shoot spots near these areas, record the numbers, then shoot them again under load. I found this was not very reliable but my numbers were definitely hotter when towing.
After I did a little more research I found that you can tap into your cars computer system if you have the OBD II port and have all the information displayed right in front of you in real time. There are bluetooth devices, plug in devices, and ones that plug directly into your laptop. If your vehicle is new chances are you will have all the sensors to see this information, it is actually very informative. I ended up buying a smaller device that stays plugged into the OBD II port and displays 4 components of your choice.
I figured some people who tow a lot would be interested in knowing this can be done for under $200, even under $50 if your smart about it, there are apps for some phones even.
Here are some of the charachteristics I have been monitoring.
Transmission temp
Engine coolant temp
Engine load (%)
Avg. MPG
Horsepower used
VOLTS
Air intake temp
The tool I bought can also read and clear engine trouble codes which is a nice plus. It also has archival data collection that will tell you your hottest temps, best/worst mpg, highest speeds, amount of gas used, amount of money each trip was (must plug in gas price).

pcrussell50 posted 04-12-2012 11:29 AM ET (US)
Mmmyep. OBDII became mandatory in 1995, and by 1996 pretty much everything had it.
Trans temp may not be available if you have a manual transmission--most probably don't, but I do. (I hate hate automatics for both towing and racing, but I can tolerate them for everything else). It's tough to find trucks with manuals.
-Peter
AZdave posted 04-12-2012 01:14 PM ET (US)
That's a great idea NJC. I think I'll see what data is reported from the plug on my '97 Dodge diesel.
David Pendleton posted 04-12-2012 01:57 PM ET (US)
What device did you end up buying?
NJCoastFlyFish posted 04-12-2012 02:13 PM ET (US)
I ended up buying a device called "scanguage II." This is a stand alone device that doesn't need a laptop or cellphone. It is also sort of unique in that it specialized in displaying real time data instead of just being a scanner mostly geared toward viewing a snap shot of what it up with your engine and clearing trouble codes.
The MPG is still a little off but I have to work on calibrating it a little to get it to be accurate.
gnr posted 04-12-2012 02:44 PM ET (US)
You can take that a step farther and purchase a module that allows you to select from various "performance tunes" which recalibrate the factory settings for intake parameters, shift points etc and gives you the operating data and trouble codes.
Edge Racing and Five Stars Performance are a couple of companies that make these.

jjjewett posted 04-12-2012 06:36 PM ET (US)
If you have an Android or iPhone get a bluetooth OBDII scanner, then install Torque from on your phone. Voila!
jimh posted 04-12-2012 09:11 PM ET (US)
This information on obtaining vehicle engine data with a low-cost scan tool is great information. I wish I could use it on my 1995 vehicle.
I suppose I could try to posture that I am a fan of simple-is-better, old-fashioned, tried-and-true, designed-in-the-1970's technology, but I can't do that with any sort of honesty. I would love to have a plug on mu 1995 GMC to connect this tool and read this data.
David Pendleton posted 04-12-2012 09:39 PM ET (US)
I bought a Garmin Mechanic with ecoRoute HD device shortly after receiving a new GPS for Christmas last year. This device plugs into the OBD port and transmits to my Nuvi 1490 via Bluetooth.
The documentation states that the information made available is dependent on the vehicle. I used it with my 2003 Dodge Ram CTD and now use it with my 2010 Dodge Ram CTD. Currently I can display RPM, voltage, intake temperature, manifold pressure, engine load, throttle position, coolant temperature, and a couple of others I can't recall right now. It also reports diagnostic trouble codes, if any exist.
Unfortunately, all the "good stuff" I really wanted is only available using their Android application and not on the GPS; stuff like air-fuel mixture, oil pressure, oil temperature and fuel flow. I'm holding out hope that Garmin updates the GPS software to match the Android capabilities at some point in the future.
I can get transmission temp and DTC's right on my dash via the truck's EVIC display.
contender posted 04-13-2012 07:50 AM ET (US)
Every vehicle is going to be different to many variables from the oil weights, amounts, and coolant you use to the temperature of the outside air, humidity, and road conditions. Peter--you could used a manual temperature gauge on the manual transmission; just replace the drain plug and put and screw the temperature sending unit in its place.
jimh posted 04-13-2012 09:15 AM ET (US)
I followed a link (above) to see the devices being discussed. I am astonished at the low cost. These sophisticated data interface devices with integral Bluetooth transceivers are very, very inexpensive--under $20! That is amazing.
Outboard engine manufacturers should be moving in this direction. A modern outboard engine with a sophisticated computer controlling the operation of the engine and monitoring all sorts of sensors should be connected to a Bluetooth transceiver. And there should be a low-cost application for popular smart phones to be able to receive the data and display it. That would be fantastic. I now the scale of the manufacturing is drastically different, but the engines are very similar.
gnr posted 04-13-2012 09:52 AM ET (US)

quote:
This information on obtaining vehicle engine data with a low-cost scan tool is great information. I wish I could use it on my 1995 vehicle
I think you can.
http://www.obd2allinone.com/sc/toplevel.asp?cat=2
Jefecinco posted 04-13-2012 10:06 AM ET (US)
Jim
Yes to this information for outboards. Bluetooth to the MFD for ready display while underway and to any Bluetooth enabled handheld device such as a telephone of iPxx device.
Assuming this comes to be Mercury will certainly be the last to get on board. Unfortunate, no?
Butch
NJCoastFlyFish posted 04-15-2012 10:53 PM ET (US)
I put the scan tool to the test this weekend running 800-miles, 400-miles with a boat on the back and 400 miles with just the trailer.
My gauge told me some important information about my truck. The one thing was no matter if I was towing 5,000-lbs or 0-lbs, if I was doing 50-MPH or 80-MPH, my coolant temperature was always between 190-F and 195-F
The one thing I learned is that when towing 5,000-lbs with my truck while going up grades my transmission temperature increased dramatically. As a comparison when just towing the trailer the transmission temp rarely got above 200-F even on significant inclines. With the boat hitched my temp at some points got to almost 250-F and it caused me to slow down dramatically. I know transmission oil (at least the oil in my transmission) will start to break down above 250-F. I can honestly say that I beleive this tool can prevent me from seriously damaging my transmission. Without seeing the numbers in front of my face I probably would not have gone so easy on my truck and would have stressed out my trasmission and most likely ruined the oil.
I also learned that my transmission would cool down if I either gave it more gas or eased up on gas, giving it medium power was the worst for transmission temp. I wonder if when making the transmission RPM faster your pumping oil through your cooler quicker?
My basic point is that using the tool definitely changed the way I drove, it was definitely worth the price!
Jerry Townsend posted 04-16-2012 12:40 PM ET (US)
Engine instruments such as being discussed are very useful. Professional mechanics use a bit more sophisticated instruments though - and they may be readily available and reasonably priced too. I have not checked. But my nephew has an auto repair business and a instrument he hooks to my '97 GMC - and says "Unc - your engine is good. No. 8 has misfired a few times - and we will check it the next time you are over (in South Dakota)".
NC - the temperature is automatically controlled (unless the coolant level is low, frozen, et al.) by a bi-metal thermostat - and they are typically rated at 180 or 195. More power, higher temperatures - and the thermostat opens a bit more to let more coolant circulate through the radiator. You probably have a 195. --- Jerry/Idaho
gnr posted 04-16-2012 01:13 PM ET (US)
That is a very hot temp for the transmission. Most folks on the towing forums see max temps of 190ish under heavy load. Do you know from which point in the system the temps are taken from?
I would definitely moniter the fluid condition closely and consider switching to a synthetic fluid if were seeing temps bouncing off 250 degrees.
gnr posted 04-16-2012 01:24 PM ET (US)
The reason your temps went down when under acceleration or deacceleration has to do with torque converter lock up.
NJCoastFlyFish posted 04-19-2012 10:34 PM ET (US)
gnr- what exactly is torque converter lockup?
I know my temps were a little high. My transmission is the A750F Toyota transmission that runs on synthetic Toyota WS oil. The oil change interval is somehwhere around 100,000-miles. After this trip I actually just did a full flush of the transmission oil just to be sure I have good oil.
kwik_wurk posted 04-20-2012 01:12 AM ET (US)
What did your trans fluid look like. If it was very dark, almost black you cooked the fluid. Good that you flushed it out right away. I would suggest trans fluid every [50,000-miles]. Now I assume your vehicle has a tranny cooler, if not add one. Or, you can look at getting a larger one installed if 250-F repeats.
The transmission will slip (friction), and hence this will heat up the fluid. When you get lockup, there no longer slip in the coupling drive train and hence less friction, resulting in less heat.
jimh posted 04-20-2012 09:29 AM ET (US)
On most automatic transmissions the transmission will change to a mechanical lock-up in the torque convertor when there is a steady and moderate load on the transmission. Otherwise the input shaft rotation is coupled to the transmission through the torque convertor by the transmission fluid medium. You can usually see the lock-up change take place by the watching the engine speed. The engine speed will drop when the lock-up is made. On my truck the engine speed will drop about 200-RPM when the transmission is in lock-up.
When driving we watch for the engine speed to drop when we are towing. Usually on level grade and steady speed the transmission will remain in lock-up. We can also climb moderate grades and keep the transmission in lock-up as long as we do not try to accelerate up the grade.
Once the transmission comes out of lock-up, if we are climbing a grade I will give the throttle a push to force the transmission to downshift. We then climb the grade in second gear instead of trying to climb in third gear.
By running in second gear, we get a better gear ratio for the engine, making it easier to climb the grade, and we increase the speed of the input shaft. The pump that circulates the transmission fluid is driven from the input shaft (so I am told) and this means the transmission fluid will be more rapidly circulated through the transmission to the cooler. This helps to reduce heating of the transmission fluid.
The worst situation is to try to climb a long grade with the transmission no longer in lock-up and still in third gear. This can really generate some transmission heating. We try to keep the transmission in lock-up as much as possible. I believe that on some of the newer GM models there is a "Towing Mode" button. This button probably affects the settings in the transmission regarding when to release the lock-up in the torque convertor, as well as other shift points. My GMC truck transmission does not have that feature--wish it did!
gnr posted 04-20-2012 09:54 AM ET (US)
jimh nailed it as usual.
My new F150 has a tow/haul mode which changes the shift points, among other things.
The tuner modules I mentioned earlier are a great way modify your transmission shift parameters to suit changing conditions.
I would never go 100k on transmission fluid, especially on a vehicle used to near the limits of its capacities.
Manufacturers are using longer/less maintenance intervals as a selling point. My guess would be against the advice of the engineers.
My truck doesn't even have a transmission dipstick. The manual tells me to not worry my pretty little head about it but I have found the fluid level check plug on the transmission case and can verify level and condition periodically.
A2J15Sport posted 04-20-2012 11:30 PM ET (US)
Monitoring your parameters and outputs is one thing. Changing them is quite another.
If you do change them using a "tuner" you leave a trail in the Powertrain Control Module. Your vehicle maker can void your warranty.
gnr posted 04-21-2012 01:22 PM ET (US)
The warranty thing has been beaten to death all over the internet. Manufacturers cannot void your waranty without proving the modification caused the damage. So says an act of Congress.
Manufacturers are actually jumping on the bandwagon by including 'perfomance mode' options in many vehicles including the 'tow/haul' feature on many F150's that I mentioned earlier. My buddy's new Camaro has a button on the console you can push to get more performance at the sake of fuel economy. You need to run a higher octane fuel when using this mode. This is a manufacturer provided performance module not much different than the aftermaker modules I am talking about.
There is no reason to fear warranty problems.
A2J15Sport posted 04-29-2012 08:24 PM ET (US)
gnr,
Sorry to say, you may want to retrhink your position on that one.
Proving a "Chip" or "Tuner" caused a failure is quite easy, actually. Not only that but your warranty guide states it will void your warranty. The manufacturers stand on that and they don't lose. It's in writing and indefensible.. I've never seen a consumer win that battle. I've seen many battles.
I've also never seen a consuumer win against a tuner maker. I've spent more time, in court, over these than I'd like.
"Tow/Haul" mode is quite different than inputting parameters that are beyond design specifications.
As I stated, "monitoring" is one thing, "changing" is another.

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Author	Topic: OBD II tool for towing
NJCoastFlyFish	posted 04-12-2012 09:04 AM ET (US) I am a little paranoid by nature and wanted to see what my transmission temps, engine coolant temps, rear differential temps, and engine oil temps are when driving highway speeds with and without a boat. My first idea was to use an IR gun and shoot spots near these areas, record the numbers, then shoot them again under load. I found this was not very reliable but my numbers were definitely hotter when towing. After I did a little more research I found that you can tap into your cars computer system if you have the OBD II port and have all the information displayed right in front of you in real time. There are bluetooth devices, plug in devices, and ones that plug directly into your laptop. If your vehicle is new chances are you will have all the sensors to see this information, it is actually very informative. I ended up buying a smaller device that stays plugged into the OBD II port and displays 4 components of your choice. I figured some people who tow a lot would be interested in knowing this can be done for under $200, even under $50 if your smart about it, there are apps for some phones even. Here are some of the charachteristics I have been monitoring. Transmission temp Engine coolant temp Engine load (%) Avg. MPG Horsepower used VOLTS Air intake temp The tool I bought can also read and clear engine trouble codes which is a nice plus. It also has archival data collection that will tell you your hottest temps, best/worst mpg, highest speeds, amount of gas used, amount of money each trip was (must plug in gas price).
pcrussell50	posted 04-12-2012 11:29 AM ET (US) Mmmyep. OBDII became mandatory in 1995, and by 1996 pretty much everything had it. Trans temp may not be available if you have a manual transmission--most probably don't, but I do. (I hate hate automatics for both towing and racing, but I can tolerate them for everything else). It's tough to find trucks with manuals. -Peter
AZdave	posted 04-12-2012 01:14 PM ET (US) That's a great idea NJC. I think I'll see what data is reported from the plug on my '97 Dodge diesel.
David Pendleton	posted 04-12-2012 01:57 PM ET (US) What device did you end up buying?
NJCoastFlyFish	posted 04-12-2012 02:13 PM ET (US) I ended up buying a device called "scanguage II." This is a stand alone device that doesn't need a laptop or cellphone. It is also sort of unique in that it specialized in displaying real time data instead of just being a scanner mostly geared toward viewing a snap shot of what it up with your engine and clearing trouble codes. The MPG is still a little off but I have to work on calibrating it a little to get it to be accurate.
gnr	posted 04-12-2012 02:44 PM ET (US) You can take that a step farther and purchase a module that allows you to select from various "performance tunes" which recalibrate the factory settings for intake parameters, shift points etc and gives you the operating data and trouble codes. Edge Racing and Five Stars Performance are a couple of companies that make these.
jjjewett	posted 04-12-2012 06:36 PM ET (US) If you have an Android or iPhone get a bluetooth OBDII scanner, then install Torque from on your phone. Voila!
jimh	posted 04-12-2012 09:11 PM ET (US) This information on obtaining vehicle engine data with a low-cost scan tool is great information. I wish I could use it on my 1995 vehicle. I suppose I could try to posture that I am a fan of simple-is-better, old-fashioned, tried-and-true, designed-in-the-1970's technology, but I can't do that with any sort of honesty. I would love to have a plug on mu 1995 GMC to connect this tool and read this data.
David Pendleton	posted 04-12-2012 09:39 PM ET (US) I bought a Garmin Mechanic with ecoRoute HD device shortly after receiving a new GPS for Christmas last year. This device plugs into the OBD port and transmits to my Nuvi 1490 via Bluetooth. The documentation states that the information made available is dependent on the vehicle. I used it with my 2003 Dodge Ram CTD and now use it with my 2010 Dodge Ram CTD. Currently I can display RPM, voltage, intake temperature, manifold pressure, engine load, throttle position, coolant temperature, and a couple of others I can't recall right now. It also reports diagnostic trouble codes, if any exist. Unfortunately, all the "good stuff" I really wanted is only available using their Android application and not on the GPS; stuff like air-fuel mixture, oil pressure, oil temperature and fuel flow. I'm holding out hope that Garmin updates the GPS software to match the Android capabilities at some point in the future. I can get transmission temp and DTC's right on my dash via the truck's EVIC display.
contender	posted 04-13-2012 07:50 AM ET (US) Every vehicle is going to be different to many variables from the oil weights, amounts, and coolant you use to the temperature of the outside air, humidity, and road conditions. Peter--you could used a manual temperature gauge on the manual transmission; just replace the drain plug and put and screw the temperature sending unit in its place.
jimh	posted 04-13-2012 09:15 AM ET (US) I followed a link (above) to see the devices being discussed. I am astonished at the low cost. These sophisticated data interface devices with integral Bluetooth transceivers are very, very inexpensive--under $20! That is amazing. Outboard engine manufacturers should be moving in this direction. A modern outboard engine with a sophisticated computer controlling the operation of the engine and monitoring all sorts of sensors should be connected to a Bluetooth transceiver. And there should be a low-cost application for popular smart phones to be able to receive the data and display it. That would be fantastic. I now the scale of the manufacturing is drastically different, but the engines are very similar.
gnr	posted 04-13-2012 09:52 AM ET (US) quote: This information on obtaining vehicle engine data with a low-cost scan tool is great information. I wish I could use it on my 1995 vehicle I think you can. http://www.obd2allinone.com/sc/toplevel.asp?cat=2
Jefecinco	posted 04-13-2012 10:06 AM ET (US) Jim Yes to this information for outboards. Bluetooth to the MFD for ready display while underway and to any Bluetooth enabled handheld device such as a telephone of iPxx device. Assuming this comes to be Mercury will certainly be the last to get on board. Unfortunate, no? Butch
NJCoastFlyFish	posted 04-15-2012 10:53 PM ET (US) I put the scan tool to the test this weekend running 800-miles, 400-miles with a boat on the back and 400 miles with just the trailer. My gauge told me some important information about my truck. The one thing was no matter if I was towing 5,000-lbs or 0-lbs, if I was doing 50-MPH or 80-MPH, my coolant temperature was always between 190-F and 195-F The one thing I learned is that when towing 5,000-lbs with my truck while going up grades my transmission temperature increased dramatically. As a comparison when just towing the trailer the transmission temp rarely got above 200-F even on significant inclines. With the boat hitched my temp at some points got to almost 250-F and it caused me to slow down dramatically. I know transmission oil (at least the oil in my transmission) will start to break down above 250-F. I can honestly say that I beleive this tool can prevent me from seriously damaging my transmission. Without seeing the numbers in front of my face I probably would not have gone so easy on my truck and would have stressed out my trasmission and most likely ruined the oil. I also learned that my transmission would cool down if I either gave it more gas or eased up on gas, giving it medium power was the worst for transmission temp. I wonder if when making the transmission RPM faster your pumping oil through your cooler quicker? My basic point is that using the tool definitely changed the way I drove, it was definitely worth the price!
Jerry Townsend	posted 04-16-2012 12:40 PM ET (US) Engine instruments such as being discussed are very useful. Professional mechanics use a bit more sophisticated instruments though - and they may be readily available and reasonably priced too. I have not checked. But my nephew has an auto repair business and a instrument he hooks to my '97 GMC - and says "Unc - your engine is good. No. 8 has misfired a few times - and we will check it the next time you are over (in South Dakota)". NC - the temperature is automatically controlled (unless the coolant level is low, frozen, et al.) by a bi-metal thermostat - and they are typically rated at 180 or 195. More power, higher temperatures - and the thermostat opens a bit more to let more coolant circulate through the radiator. You probably have a 195. --- Jerry/Idaho
gnr	posted 04-16-2012 01:13 PM ET (US) That is a very hot temp for the transmission. Most folks on the towing forums see max temps of 190ish under heavy load. Do you know from which point in the system the temps are taken from? I would definitely moniter the fluid condition closely and consider switching to a synthetic fluid if were seeing temps bouncing off 250 degrees.
gnr	posted 04-16-2012 01:24 PM ET (US) The reason your temps went down when under acceleration or deacceleration has to do with torque converter lock up.
NJCoastFlyFish	posted 04-19-2012 10:34 PM ET (US) gnr- what exactly is torque converter lockup? I know my temps were a little high. My transmission is the A750F Toyota transmission that runs on synthetic Toyota WS oil. The oil change interval is somehwhere around 100,000-miles. After this trip I actually just did a full flush of the transmission oil just to be sure I have good oil.
kwik_wurk	posted 04-20-2012 01:12 AM ET (US) What did your trans fluid look like. If it was very dark, almost black you cooked the fluid. Good that you flushed it out right away. I would suggest trans fluid every [50,000-miles]. Now I assume your vehicle has a tranny cooler, if not add one. Or, you can look at getting a larger one installed if 250-F repeats. The transmission will slip (friction), and hence this will heat up the fluid. When you get lockup, there no longer slip in the coupling drive train and hence less friction, resulting in less heat.
jimh	posted 04-20-2012 09:29 AM ET (US) On most automatic transmissions the transmission will change to a mechanical lock-up in the torque convertor when there is a steady and moderate load on the transmission. Otherwise the input shaft rotation is coupled to the transmission through the torque convertor by the transmission fluid medium. You can usually see the lock-up change take place by the watching the engine speed. The engine speed will drop when the lock-up is made. On my truck the engine speed will drop about 200-RPM when the transmission is in lock-up. When driving we watch for the engine speed to drop when we are towing. Usually on level grade and steady speed the transmission will remain in lock-up. We can also climb moderate grades and keep the transmission in lock-up as long as we do not try to accelerate up the grade. Once the transmission comes out of lock-up, if we are climbing a grade I will give the throttle a push to force the transmission to downshift. We then climb the grade in second gear instead of trying to climb in third gear. By running in second gear, we get a better gear ratio for the engine, making it easier to climb the grade, and we increase the speed of the input shaft. The pump that circulates the transmission fluid is driven from the input shaft (so I am told) and this means the transmission fluid will be more rapidly circulated through the transmission to the cooler. This helps to reduce heating of the transmission fluid. The worst situation is to try to climb a long grade with the transmission no longer in lock-up and still in third gear. This can really generate some transmission heating. We try to keep the transmission in lock-up as much as possible. I believe that on some of the newer GM models there is a "Towing Mode" button. This button probably affects the settings in the transmission regarding when to release the lock-up in the torque convertor, as well as other shift points. My GMC truck transmission does not have that feature--wish it did!
gnr	posted 04-20-2012 09:54 AM ET (US) jimh nailed it as usual. My new F150 has a tow/haul mode which changes the shift points, among other things. The tuner modules I mentioned earlier are a great way modify your transmission shift parameters to suit changing conditions. I would never go 100k on transmission fluid, especially on a vehicle used to near the limits of its capacities. Manufacturers are using longer/less maintenance intervals as a selling point. My guess would be against the advice of the engineers. My truck doesn't even have a transmission dipstick. The manual tells me to not worry my pretty little head about it but I have found the fluid level check plug on the transmission case and can verify level and condition periodically.
A2J15Sport	posted 04-20-2012 11:30 PM ET (US) Monitoring your parameters and outputs is one thing. Changing them is quite another. If you do change them using a "tuner" you leave a trail in the Powertrain Control Module. Your vehicle maker can void your warranty.
gnr	posted 04-21-2012 01:22 PM ET (US) The warranty thing has been beaten to death all over the internet. Manufacturers cannot void your waranty without proving the modification caused the damage. So says an act of Congress. Manufacturers are actually jumping on the bandwagon by including 'perfomance mode' options in many vehicles including the 'tow/haul' feature on many F150's that I mentioned earlier. My buddy's new Camaro has a button on the console you can push to get more performance at the sake of fuel economy. You need to run a higher octane fuel when using this mode. This is a manufacturer provided performance module not much different than the aftermaker modules I am talking about. There is no reason to fear warranty problems.
A2J15Sport	posted 04-29-2012 08:24 PM ET (US) gnr, Sorry to say, you may want to retrhink your position on that one. Proving a "Chip" or "Tuner" caused a failure is quite easy, actually. Not only that but your warranty guide states it will void your warranty. The manufacturers stand on that and they don't lose. It's in writing and indefensible.. I've never seen a consumer win that battle. I've seen many battles. I've also never seen a consuumer win against a tuner maker. I've spent more time, in court, over these than I'd like. "Tow/Haul" mode is quite different than inputting parameters that are beyond design specifications. As I stated, "monitoring" is one thing, "changing" is another.