posted 07-15-2012 04:23 PM ET (US)            

There are some good videos on Youtube regarding this motor. I agree, its an great move by Mercury to have a simple, service it yourself, easy to rig up with existing mechanical controls.

Its also made here in America. Its deserves a strong consideration

posted 07-15-2012 11:10 PM ET (US)            

I also saw the new Mercury 150-HP FOURSTROKE that is not the VERADO at a boat show this winter. I wanted to take the cowling off. I asked the dealer's representative if we could take the cowling off. He said, "Sure." But then we could not figure out how to take the cowling off. I was disappointed to not be able to see the engine itself.

"There is a clever and possibly quite useful function that allows the owner to use their iPhone or mobile smart phone to scan the decal which tells you what service is required."

It is not particularly cleaver. It is just a decal with a two-dimension code that can be read by various smart devices. As far as I can tell, it just links to a web resource. Your smart phone has to be on-line on the internet to get the data, if I understand how it works.

posted 07-16-2012 12:26 AM ET (US)            

The cowling on this engine is the easiest to remove of ANY outboard in this class. It's a simple, easy to find and use latch you pull out on and then you lift off the lightest cowling ever put on a 150. When you put it back on it latches with a reassuring "click".

Whether or not the decal on the engine is cleaver or not, it does make getting servicing information and helpful videos, quick and easy to find, without a lot time wasted on my part.

posted 07-16-2012 08:00 AM ET (US)            

As for the technical innovation, the engine was recognized at the 2011 IBEX convention in Kentucky for its innovation in the reduction in weight. The weight reduction was 9-lbs, from 476-lbs of the competitor's engine to the 465-lbs of the new Mercury FOURSTROKE that is not the VERADO. The weight reduction was the only element of the engine cited as innovative.

Based on the firsthand report about the cowling, I think perhaps a significant portion of the weight reduction may have been in the cowling. Knock five pounds off the cowling and you've got fifty percent of the weight reduction right there.

If Mercury had first engineered and developed this engine prior to the VERADO, I doubt that anyone on the planet would try to describe the VERADO as being regressive in its technology compared to this Mercury 150-HP FOURSTROKE that is not the VERADO. The VERADO introduced many innovations in outboard engine design and technology. It is on that basis that I describe this Mercury engine as being a regression in technology compared to the VERADO.

For the engine to be selling at an attractive price is good news, but it is no surprise. Mercury outboard engines are typically remarkable for their price. It is quite common for Mercury engines to be cited as costing less than competitors' engines, and Mercury dealers often make a practice of very prominently displaying or advertising the low price as a method of promoting the Mercury engine.

posted 07-16-2012 06:38 PM ET (US)            

quote:

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Eric--What boat is powered by your Mercury 150-HP FOURSTROKE?

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posted 07-17-2012 03:20 PM ET (US)         

"Developing this throw-back four-cycle engine--a regression in technology"

when you are so misinformed about the engine?

posted 07-17-2012 05:15 PM ET (US)            

Its different I don't see it as a throw back engine at all. All modern day engines are so technical and most of the new features it offers such as aircraft metals additional stainless steel which is a great improvement robust 4.9" gearcase, unique Focused Mount System 60 Amp alternator are well thought out useful components. The code I understand does help locate dealers links to videos and Im sure many various other articles and related links.

Maybe I was a little ahead of myself and perhaps the current market with the idea of the engine actually displaying what service it requires and the parts need for the service or repair. It wouldn't be a bad idea actually could provide owners with a mini version diagnostic software for their iPads that could indicate what is wrong with the engine. Dealers would hate this idea as it would cut thousands of dollars of mobile appointments to simply hook up a the diagnostic computer. It would be useful for things such as recalls or even last time thermostats were installed when they fail which one etc. Quite helpful for the user to save time and money which matter the most for recreational boating.

posted 07-17-2012 05:31 PM ET (US)            

The VERADO has Smartcraft digital instrumentation; the new engine has conventional gauges.

The VERADO has electronic throttle and shift; the new engine has the same mechanical cable throttle and shift used for the past 75-years.

The VERADO has supercharging; the new engine has conventionally air intake, no boost.

The VERADO has impressive engineering that supports up to 375-HP from its basic engine block, using long-bolt design based on Formula-One racing engines; the new engine has none of this.

The new engine has only one innovation that was cited in its award at IBEX: it was 9-lbs lighter than a competitor's 150-HP engine. The engine weighs about 450-lbs, so a reduction of 9-lbs is only a reduction of two-percent. I don't think a change in a value of two-percent is normally something that would win you an award for innovation. I weigh 225-lbs, and if I lost 2-percent of my weight I would weigh 4.5-lbs less. Would I get an award for that at Ibex?

Larry, I am not going to get excited about a 2D-decal for an iPhone to look up a web-based document. The engine is clearly a step backwards in engineering and technology for Mercury compared to what they achieved in the VERADO. That is why I called this engine the VERADOSAURUS.

It looks like a nice outboard engine, 150-HP, nothing fancy, and should be able to compete with other four-cycle engines of competitors that have similar simplicity, particularly with the low price Mercury has given it. But there is no break-through in technology. That is why the technology is regressive. Perhaps there is too much negativity about that word. It just means:

quote:

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regressive, adj.,--being, characterized by, or developing in the course of an evolutionary process involving increasing simplification of structure

---

Seriously, Larry, I cannot think of a better way to describe the new Mercury 150-HP engine when comparing it to the "old" 150-HP engine, the VERADO. It is regressive.

I can see why you tend to like it, as this engine has much more in common with your 1980 Mercury engines than a VERADO. It ought to be a good fit on the transom of one of your five boats. Do you have any plans to buy one? You seem to be extremely enthused and supportive of the engine, and ready to defend it against my comment of being regressive. Is it an engine for you?

posted 07-17-2012 06:01 PM ET (US)            

Cheers .....

posted 07-17-2012 06:43 PM ET (US)         

The 2-stroke DFI is now the low end market, where price counts. For this segment Mercury offer the fuel efficient Optimax, 75-300HP, the biggest seller in 2-stroke DFI.

The Japanese quickly determined they would go for the middle ground, with naturally aspirated EFI 4-strokes. They have done well there, as has Mercury with the 115 HP -4HP engines. This new Merc now clearly fits into this middle range in the higher HP offering, and now gives them access to all three segments of the market at the 150HP level, as no other company has. It should be a winning strategy for Mercury, and push them back over 50% marketshare worldwide.

posted 07-17-2012 06:54 PM ET (US)            

That would be fantastic on their part.

posted 07-17-2012 06:57 PM ET (US)            

"200-225 new Veardo four stroke based on the new 150 specs and engine design."

posted 07-17-2012 07:27 PM ET (US)            

I would consider it the ideal motor to replace my aging 200HP Optimax on my Conquest 21. Even though this hull as the Ventura 21 later came with a Verado 225 HP, I would prefer the throwback design to retain my shift and gauges and for the DIY maintenance features.

posted 07-17-2012 10:41 PM ET (US)            

quote:

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The features I pointed out two posts above but really only going off of Mercury's website mainly are they not innovative? Maybe I'm wrong but if so please state which companies that are offering these features and specifically on a 150 four stroke.

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It would be easier for me to reply if you just list the features you consider to be innovations. I would be glad to comment.

The new Mercury 150-HP FOURSTROKE (not the VERADO) was judged by a panel of industry experts at the 2011 IBEX show. The panel found the engine to be innovative only for its weight reduction. I don't know that I can replace their judgement with my own, as I have not even seen the motor with its cowling off. If the experts judged the engine and found its innovation to be in its weight reduction (of 9-lbs), it is not up to me to make an argument that there are other significant innovations or new technologies on the engine that should be recognized as innovations. I have to go with the judgement of the experts at IBEX.

If someone wants to make an argument that having a 60-Ampere alternator is an innovation, please go ahead. I think there are other outboards with high-output alternator that have been in production for a long time.

I can't offer much comment on the engine mount. I haven't examined it. Has Mercury obtained a patent for this engine mount? If Mercury invented a new engine mount method, you would think it would be protected by a patent. If it is, we will need to read the patent to discover the innovation.

Larry writes:

quote:

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As Jim indicates, the Mercury Verado is clearly the high end leader in the outboard world, for people who want and can afford the best. This would even include the US military services like the Coast Guard, where I have seen hundreds of them on the Safeboats.

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Larry--I said none of those things. I said that the Verado engine as introduced in c.2004 represented a technical innovation and a progressive evolution of the outboard. I have never said it was the best. I have never said it was for people who wanted the best. Those are your words, not mine.

Last week I was in the Apostle Islands National Lakeshore. I saw many government owned boats used by the park service. They were all powered by HONDA four-cycle outboards or, in one case, by twin diesel inboards running on bio-diesel fuel. I did not see a single Mercury VERADO engine the entire 12 days I was out boating. I only see the VERADO used on certain categories of boats, mainly boats intended for high-speed pursuit and having three or four outboard engines. Almost all of the S.A.F.E boats I see in the Great Lakes have HONDA engines.

This discussion of the VERADO is a distraction of the actual topic here, the new Mercury 150-HP FOURSTROKE (that is not the VERADO). Let me repeat what I have said about the engine in my own words:

quote:

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Developing this throw-back four-cycle engine--a regression in technology compared to the VERADO--was a good move for Mercury. There are many boaters who want a new engine, and Mercury was not going to sell a lot of 150-HP OptiMax two-cycle engines for boaters who think a four-cycle is the way to go.

---

quote:

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It looks like a nice outboard engine, 150-HP, nothing fancy, and should be able to compete with other four-cycle engines of competitors that have similar simplicity, particularly with the low price Mercury has given it. But there is no break-through in technology.

---

If someone wants to disagree with what I said, they need to take the opposite position from me. Let me give readers a list of the opposite positions from me, so you can make your case if you want to argue about what I said. You need to explain:

--that developing the new 150-HP FOURSTOKE was not a good move by Mercury;

--that the new 150-HP FOURSTROKE is an evolutionary progress in technology moving forward from the VERADO, that is, the new engine advances the technology of the VERADO further;

--that Mercury was going to sell a lot of 150-HP OptiMax engines to boaters who initially wanted a four-cycle outboard engine;

--that the new 150-HP FOURSTROKE is not a nice outboard engine;

--that the new 150-HP FOURSTROKE is a fancy engine;

--that the new 150-HP FOURSTROKE is not going to be able to compete with competitors' four-cycle 150-HP outboard engines of similar simplicity; and,

--that the new 150-HP FOURSTROKE is not being sold at a low price

posted 07-18-2012 11:59 PM ET (US)            

http://www.suzukimarine.com/Product%20Lines/Outboard%20Motors/Products/ DF150/2012/DF150.aspx

The specified weight of the Mercury FourStroke 150 long shaft is 455 pounds.

http://www.mercurymarine.com/engines/outboards/fourstrokes/150/

posted 07-19-2012 12:30 AM ET (US)            

In fact I see this engine as simplistically beautiful in design and function. Not boring nor a throw back at all. It still needs to be tested so I won't give it full marks until it gets pounded for a few years out in the open waters. That won't be a problem I'm sure.

posted 07-19-2012 09:58 AM ET (US)            

A weight advantage of 19-20 lbs wouldn't matter to anybody but the advertising team.

posted 07-19-2012 11:18 AM ET (US)            

The IBEX awards are intended to recognize products "...that are distinctly innovative, benefit the marine industry and/or consumer, are practical and cost-effective." This is the definition as presented by the actual judging group, the BWI. Solely considering the innovation component while willfully ignoring the other 3 or 4 components of merit, the majority, might be considered a lie of omission.

The repeated assertion of a "9 pound reduction" seems suspect as well. Lets just roll the tape of an actual judge's remarks:

"Mercury found a way to trim 24 pounds off their new 150 FourStroke..."

One may assume that the judge meant to say "9 pounds", but that would be a stretch. I prefer to assume that Mercury designed a new engine ground up, found it to weigh a notch too much, then redesigned it using alien technologies and light weight unobtainium (Fond du Lac is a known repository) to reduce the weight 24 pounds. Hey, at least I'm using the figure the judges used, right?

Finally, a judge also cited the engine for decent fuel efficiency and performance. Wait, whats that? I'm sorry, got that wrong, here is what the judge actually said:

"Mercury found a way... to satisfy the growing need for superb fuel efficiency and performance,"

posted 07-19-2012 02:07 PM ET (US)            

The VERADO can only use SmartCraft--well I suppose you could figure out your own methods to rig conventional gauges if you really wanted. But Mercury's intent is for VERADO to use digital instrumentation. In the new engine Mercury went back to conventional gauges. Perhaps that is innovation.

Re the "performance" and "fuel efficiency" of the engine, these parameters have never been characterized in any way with specific figures. The most reasonable inference is the improvement in those categories is from the reduced weight. I don't see any explanation from IBEX or even from Mercury for a basis for improved performance or fuel efficiency due to some new feature being introduced. The underwater gear is from the VERADO, as best I can figure. It's the 4.9-inch VERADO gear case. If putting that gear case on this engine is an innovation, what was it when they put it on the VERADO?

The fuel efficiency improvement is not documented by IBEX in any way. They just throw it in there with their award. It is hard to analyze the fuel efficiency innovation when there is no information about the fuel efficiency. At least with the weight, as details eventually came out, we could figure out how much weight reduction occurred. How do we figure out how much fuel efficiency improvement has occurred? There is no data.

posted 07-19-2012 02:48 PM ET (US)            

http://www.mercurymarine.com/engines/outboards/fourstrokes/150/

posted 07-19-2012 03:00 PM ET (US)            

I have also wondered about an L6 version of the block

LHG,

Remember my comments way back when this motor was first being discussed here. I mentioned that it could be the demise of the Verado eventually.

Just think 3.0 liters and 150hp. If it could be made into a 200hp 4-banger and you add two more cylinders, now you have 300hp 4.5 liter inline 6 engine , with no supercharger. Also deturned you could have a 225 and a 250 with minimal engineering. Bolt on a supercharger and who knows what power output could be obtained with little fuss or expense.

Digital controls are easily added on, maybe like E-TEC does which is the simple and versatile way of doing it where the motor can be converted one way or the other with either a bolt-on kit or factory equipped.

posted 07-19-2012 08:30 PM ET (US)            

The mystery of the weight of the new Mercury 150-HP FOURSTROKE (not the VERADO) could have been very easily avoided if the press release from Mercury and the press release from IBEX had just simply stated the weight of the engine, and made clear what the change in weight was from the previously lightest four-cycle 150-HP engine. This was never done. Instead Mercury told us the engine was:

-- "light weight."

-- "actually lighter than the less-durable engines of our competition."

-- "low weight."

-- "by far the lightest 150 hp engine."

--"weighing just 24 pounds more than the popular Mercury OptiMax 150 direct-injected two-stroke."

It would have been much simpler if Mercury had just come out and said something like this: The new Mercury VERADOSAURUS weighs 455-lbs for the 20-inch shaft model, and this is 19-lbs less than the Suzuki 150-HP 20-inch shaft model, which we believe was previously the lightest four-cycle 150-HP outboard engine.

If would have been much simpler if IBEX has said the same thing, and then said that this difference of 19-lbs is so significant that they wish to present Mercury with an award for innovation for the weight reduction.

Instead Mercury gave vague descriptions of the weight and described the weight reduction by talking about how much more the new engine weighed than their OptiMax (22-lbs or 24-lbs). IBEX apparently drew figures from the air (24-lbs or 22-lbs) and talked about how much the new engine weighed less than some other unidentified engine.

posted 07-19-2012 08:53 PM ET (US)            

A weight reduction of 19-lbs is more significant than a 9-lbs reduction. Whether or not that qualifies for an award for innovation is hard to dispute. The judges at IBEX thought so, even if they didn't come up with the same figure.

Now for the notion that the new engine block could or might or will become the basis for further models of different horsepower. Larry says:

quote:

---

Mercury never engineers and builds a brand new engine platform for only one HP level.

---

This is not much of a statement. I would counter with this: every engine manufacturer in history has used the same engine block to make models of more than one horsepower rating. This is just the history of engines. It is not a special attribute of Mercury.

So we look at this engine. It is a four-cylinder in-line with rather large displacement--and again my apology for mixing up the engine configuration as a V6, which was the initial speculation about the engine from early reports. This engine has 3.0-liter displacement. Let's rank it with its cousins using the VERADO block:

VERADO L4
The four cylinder in-line VERADO block has a displacement of only 1.7-liters and no balancing shaft. This block is used for the 150-HP, 175-HP, and 200-HP VERADO engines with supercharging, and also for the FOURSTROKE VERADITO (without supercharging) engines of 75-HP, 90-HP, and 115-HP.

VERADO L6
The six cylinder in-line VERADO block has a displacement of 2.6-liters and being a naturally balanced engine needs no balancing shafts. This block is used for the 225-HP, 250-HP, and 300-HP VERADO with supercharging.

VERADOSAURUS L4
The four cylinder in-line VERADOSAURUS block has a displacement of 3.0-liters, and is currently used only for the 150-HP model.

What seem interesting to me is the potential to use the L6 VERADO block without supercharging to make alternative engines. Let's look at that.

Without supercharging in the VERADITO, we see the 1.7-liter block crank out 115-HP in its best tune. Using this same ratio of horsepower and displacement, we could expect the 2.6-liter L6 to produce 175-HP without supercharging. We see that Mercury could have easily made a 150-HP and 175-HP VERADITO engine, that is, an engine using the L6 VERADO block without a supercharger. Instead they made an entirely new engine and increased the displacement to 3.0-liters.

posted 07-19-2012 11:08 PM ET (US)            

I understand that this 150 is just as powerful as a equal Optimax in its class which makes things interesting. The Optimax could be phased out with this style engine but perhaps diehard two stroke users bass fisherman etc might make Merc feel the heat on that move. Its hard to say but the fourstroke makes much more sense in this market and today's recreation boating desires for the most part.

After taking to a head rep at our Boston Whaler dealer a few months ago he believes the Optimax will likely be moved on eventually. The only way they do that is to introduce a new engine in its place well folks I think we are seeing that happen in front of our eyes.

posted 07-19-2012 11:21 PM ET (US)            

As mentioned I would also think the Optimax although I own them and like them for the most part would take the hit in the long run if these new versions based on the new 150 design actually make to the showroom. There certainly are diehard two stroke users and they would be mad no doubt but how many really on average compared to the rest of the market. I just can't see it being more than 20-30% maybe thats two high as well. They might just keep a select few Opti's to keep everybody happy but this new four stroke is Mercs new baby just my two cents.