posted 08-08-2012 04:15 AM ET (US)        

Now I am not an expert on much and don't claim to be an expert on anything, but this law is going to create the infestation of milfoil rather than keep it quarantined. This law will support it's spreading

You ask why? The first thing my mind thought was if they charge me $450 bucks for it simply being on my trailer, the rest of the lakes need milfoil brought to them. Then every lake will be infested, removing the revenue and BS associated with it. As soon as all lakes are infested the law means nothing.

posted 08-08-2012 10:05 AM ET (US)            

And milfoil as food/fuel? Please let me know where I can find information on such useful uses. Many people seem to be saying it could be a biofuel, but talk is cheap, and one study (the only one I could find) shows milfoil not a very good biofuel: http://blog.al.com/askus/2009/06/milfoil_not_a_good_source_of_b.html

In the East here it is an extremely damaging and costly invasive species that lake communities spend thousands of dollars per year to control, all to pretty much no effect. I expect if there was such an easy answer people would be jumping all over it.

posted 08-08-2012 10:52 AM ET (US)            

We have the invasive Eurasion Water Milfoil in Wisconsin, and Lake Associations (governmental taxing bodies) spend millions annually to harvest it with mechanical mowers, poison it with non-descriminating toxins, introduce biological controls (weevils) and manually pull it. All in an effort to maintain a water body usable by motor boats, sailers and swimmers which supports high water front land values and, more importantly, the high quality social values learned from Wisconsin summers at the lake cottage with family.

It is the responsibility of each citizen in Wisconsin to ensure that they remove organic material and water from their vessel upon departing a lake, specifically so as not to introduce it to a different, perhaps un-infested lake. The DNR has enacted similar rules about drying the boat, emptying live wells, etc... that were discussed regarding the boat plug removal in MN.

If that wasn't a joke, you might consider becoming, not so much an expert, but just a bit less ignorant about the topic prior to posting.

posted 08-08-2012 12:47 PM ET (US)            

I read an article several months back that stated that the state of WA spends over a million dollars, annually, attempting to mitigate it.

posted 08-08-2012 12:56 PM ET (US)            

It really is a losing battle. A millimeter-sized fragment of milfoil is all it takes to propagate a plant.

There is no way to ensure a trailer is 100% free of milfoil, particularly if you have a bunk trailer.

It's hard to say "Oh well, let's just do nothing," but there is no way to stop it. Nature will find a way. You don't have to like it, but you do have to accept it.

posted 08-08-2012 02:54 PM ET (US)            

I realize that there are all kinds of safety, water safety, toxicity considerations, but it would seem to be a lot cheaper than diving and manually removing rooted plants. A contained system in which you retrieve you boat at a ramp, take it over to the dip tank, dip, leave and rinse down at home or location of choice.

posted 08-08-2012 06:46 PM ET (US)            

I really wish that salties entering the great lakes were required to dock before entering the St. Lawrence Seaway and "swish and spit" their ballast tanks.....with chemicals and CITY water, before entering the Great Lakes...to kill all life in those tanks. The city water treatment plant would handle the chemicals in an eco-responsible way, and the second fill of the tanks would have fresh, clean water in them for when they dumped the water into the lakes at the final destination to load.

....but then again, the invasives are also trying to enter that ecosystem via the man-made channels in the Midwest via the Mississippi system as well.

Bottom line, it's never gonna happen. But I'd gladly dip my trailer in a series of baths so long as I could be assured that the chemicals used wouldn't harm my boat/trailer.

posted 08-08-2012 07:47 PM ET (US)            

Something about that dipping process imposed on top of the "normal" Ramp antics makes me smile. Would have to be mandatory. Would never get past EPA as to what to use. Would have to be a charge. Most likely would have to arrest a few "Boaters" to get their cooperation. Then the legal system would kick in along with the lawsuits about ruining stuff.

If someone found a use for the stuff and could make money harvesting it, the green freaks would scream about destroying habitat.

Most are interested in helping if it will not hurt their stuff.
Even at the cost of all the lakes, a solution is OK ONLY if it does not cost ME.

I love it.

posted 08-08-2012 08:00 PM ET (US)            

In my case, I'm actually worried about the enforcement and the fines. My boat doesn't take on water when it's in the water. It does take on water when it rains, however. This has been a constant source of aggravation since I bought the thing 13 years ago. I've have never been able to figure out where the water is coming from. To make matters worse, my drain plug and bilge pump pickup are not in the lowest part of the bilge.

I can pull the plug (even on the incline of my ramp) and the bilge will not completely drain. I cannot use the pump to completely empty the bilge either.

So, depending on how much rain we've gotten, my bilge always has an inch or so of water in it.

That's a ticket here now.

I'm prepared to argue my case when, and if, I get stopped (I haven't yet), but I'm not looking forward to it.

posted 08-08-2012 10:56 PM ET (US)            

Remember, environmentalists have the same goal here, protect the native and healthy nature of a body of water. If you design a well=thought out solution, people buy in.

If I were any of the 3 professions in my prior post, I would make a run for the solution. Governments are already spending a lot to control it,

Innovation is the solution and someone should run with it. There ought to be a way to design a separated and sealed dipping tank, with a product that is not harmful to boat, finish, motor, rubber, trailers AND a way to place it near enough to the launch, without contaminating surrounding waters with a potential environmental toxin. My brief review of the Cornell paper suggests that from a marine environment perspective, it may be possible.

Sure, it would bog the ramps down initially. So does sitting there arguing with the LEO that just issued you a ticket. Plus, you open yourself to being fodder for the launch ramp stories.

Innovation produces jobs, provides solutions, makes lives better (sometimes) and in this case, could solve an invasive problem. Moaning about it, not so much.

Finally, I know I have explained this to gusgus, perhaps someone can help him understand statistics- law enforcement has made positive changes to human behavior- the rates of DUI related deaths and disabilities is down. This is one example of law enforcement changing behavior. If it didn't, why are so many people arrested for trying to avoid the police checkpoints for alcohol? People think more before drinking and driving. I know I do.

posted 08-09-2012 03:06 AM ET (US)            

Using Monsanto's Round Up would let the active ingredient loose on the local waters, yet it is largely if not completely inactivated by time.
(WIKI) glyphosate comes into contact with the soil, it can be rapidly bound to soil particles and be inactivated. Unbound glyphosate can be degraded by bacteria. In soils, half lives vary from as little as 3 days at a site in Texas, to as much as 141 days at a site in Iowa. In addition, the glyphosate metabolite aminomethylphosphonic acid was shown to persist up to 2 years in Swedish forest soils.
So it seems the activity dies when dried.

There should be some way to circumvent the government system of fines and harassment.

posted 08-09-2012 10:15 AM ET (US)            

It takes a few seconds to pull the plug. We all do it anyway if we're smart. Run the bilge pump for a sec, as you walk around the trailer to put on straps have a peek to see that there's no hanging green strings, and go about your business.

There's been no harassment by anyone that I've ever seen, and I trailer and launch in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Illinois, in Lakes Superior, Huron, and Michigan. Either myself or my SO launch over 100 times a year there, and trailer over 5000 miles, launching at over 30 different ramps per season. Never had anything other than a smile and wave from any DNR, Police, Harbormaster, CG, or anyone.

Dave

.

posted 08-09-2012 11:15 PM ET (US)            

"Then every lake will be infested, removing the revenue and BS associated with it. As soon as all lakes are infested the law means nothing." OK this was already torn apart by nearly every responder.

This is just grammatically strange: "Every need has a solution, but it was never the enforcement of a law that solved the trouble, it was always education and peer pressure that began the corrective action. "

Then there was this gem: "Listening to young people at boat docks was how my first post came to be. They know the fine will disappear when no lakes are left. They know how easy it is to fight the government, maybe better than anyone. They have less to lose, less to be concerned about and frankly could care less about the plant."

Actually, young people of today tend to be MORE concerned and better informed AND they have MORE to lose, than many of our generation (case in point). They are, without a doubt, more concerned about the health of the earth than some people in this forum.

"What would be wrong with a spray?" referring to Round Up. It is one of the LAST products that would be used near a water supply. Think about germination and distribution. Or, think about the bees.

Finally, this needs no introduction or commentary: "If the law is ignorant or increases the risk of abuse, it may be easy for most of us to follow them, but increases the rouge attitude. Locally this sounds like the reality. If you can't discuss the issue, but instead attack me then maybe you should take a bit more medication. I do follow the "damn law" as you so perfectly suggested in a boorish red neck fashion."

posted 08-10-2012 03:12 AM ET (US)            

Quoting me is real nice of you. Although maybe you could step off of your pedestal and see the world doesn't give a shit about your childish grammer bitch act.

I am exactly who I am and I sure don't need to cater to the likes of you.

I stand by every statement I have made and if they are proven wrong (which you have yet to do) I will apologize for or retract them.

posted 08-10-2012 06:30 AM ET (US)            

This said, it is probably too late to prevent cross contamination of lakes and rivers around here - I just do not see how it can be done. If you are super conscientious and pick every weed, strand, spor whatever off your boat, most others will not. You see them driving down the highways with green goop hanging off their rigs like moss on live oaks in the South. Those piles of weeds, decaying and gross looking at boat ramp parking lanes is just unbelievable. I've been putting some of the aquatic weeds in my compost tumbler.

Not sure if anything is effective. But it sounds like Minnesota ain't playin.

posted 08-10-2012 10:04 AM ET (US)         

Another ranting, soapbox thread that lizzy has taken over using her passive aggressive BS to belittle people who aren't in lockstep with her.

Imagine that.

posted 08-10-2012 11:32 AM ET (US)            

I am honored you think of me as such an awesome American. Thank you.

gnr, you are of course correct. She (if it is a she) and Binky (if it is even American) have used every opportunity to attack anyone they want to destroy. Forum thread destruction is their game.

Neither can discuss the subject at hand. Because they believe we are below them.

posted 08-10-2012 11:47 AM ET (US)            

quote:

---

If it were drafted as a source of revenue, then there would be inspection guys at each launch

---

Actually that might work to be more of a deterrent the big problem is the enormous cost it would bring to make it work. It more or less reminds me of our DFO (Fisheries and Oceans Canada) They are there to regulate and protect the fishery but you never really see them out there. To be fair they are more frequent in the regions that bring in more visitors and which normally show more fish being caught. I would say in a whole summer I might see them twice even in prime time. They will hang around the docks and marinas every once and a while. I support their purpose but to make it work they are putting an awful amount of trust in the angler much like people who are wanting to use their boat in a lake and risk the contamination of milfoil.

I guess if we all obey the rules no problem nothing to hide no fines or issues related but there are always a few that ruin the party.

Some are honest and some aren't. I see a fair amount of dishonestly sadly. Most of these would be nabbed and fined with regular visits but they are not there most of the time to do it and I see the government side that the program cost to make it work would just be outrageous.

posted 08-10-2012 12:07 PM ET (US)            

quote:

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This thread is about MILFOIL, so lets get back to the subject at hand.

---

quote:

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It is to late just about everywhere. But the governmental income machine is in full speed ahead mode here (WA). The reality is another method is needed to control milfoil. Writing tickets and charging boaters won't stop it's growth.

---

You are correct that fines and tickets won't stop milfoil's spread, but I see such action as an attempt to raise public awareness so that it may at least slow milfoil's propogation into new waters while giving time to discover useful and successful methods of control/eradication.

posted 08-10-2012 12:20 PM ET (US)            

If I use fingers on both hands, I count 6 of your 8 posts here as: anti-government OR personal attacks or both.

Going back to counting on one hand, I see 5 other parties who find your assertions bizarre.

posted 08-10-2012 01:44 PM ET (US)         

quote:

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gusgus- I am not sure if you are trying to quote/sound like Wendell Berry, but you are failing. Hear are some of your pearls of lord-knows-what:

---

Passive aggressive method of calling someone a moron. Adds nothing to the discussion. Incorrect use of the word hear only mentioned because of your next comment.

quote:

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This is just grammatically strange

---

I have no trouble understanding the point being made.

quote:

---

Then there was this gem: Actually, young people of today tend to be MORE concerned and better informed AND they have MORE to lose, than many of our generation (case in point). They are, without a doubt, more concerned about the health of the earth than some people in this forum.

---

Oh really? going to link to some stats to back that up? I'm sure some kids are and some are not. My personal experience with all the younguns around me is that they are no different than the kids of previous generations. Without a doubt lizzy? Pretty strong statement there. Without a doubt young people across the board are more concerned than any previous generation? Another generalized statement spouted as fact that cannot be backed up and flies in the face of reality.

quote:

---

What would be wrong with a spray?" referring to Round Up. It is one of the LAST products that would be used near a water supply. Think about germination and distribution. Or, think about the bees.

---

And here I didn't piss all over your stupid dip tank idea when I read it a few days ago. You asked for ideas. Even gave up a ridiculous one yourself. This is no more unrealistic than yours and could even be a better option using your fantasy situation of a "self contained" spray area.

quote:

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Finally, this needs no introduction or commentary: My lord.

---

See first comment above.

LOL

Around here there have been signs warning about invasives and advising on how to minimize the risk of transport by every public water access I know of. Sometimes there are folks at the launches who are there to educate the public about invasives. There is a fine for transporting invasive species, I think it is $150.00. I have never heard of it being enforced.

In the news right now around here is the spiny water flea. It is in the Champlain Canal which links to Lake Champlain. There has been federal money avaialable for YEARS to study this impending infestation and come up with a plan. Nothing has been done and the flea is at the door. Many factions want to shut the locks down to keep the flea out. These locks serve an esitmated 1500 boats per year, most jsut to get their boats to and from Champlain seasonally. The NY state government says it ain't going to happen.

There is your government for you.

LOL

Be bow fishing for asian carp in my lifetime no doubt.

posted 08-10-2012 03:26 PM ET (US)            

Actually I don't believe you are actually an American. By your rant you are a revolutionist. It won't work, this is a great country, get with the program and become part of it. (OR LEAVE)

rich

posted 08-10-2012 03:48 PM ET (US)            

Its more of a warning really. Like I said it get rid of it the government would have to put together one massive crew in almost every recreational lake that we use? Thats impossible and they realize that a tax would likely be added to fund it for all of us and that will not fly by too easily either.

posted 08-10-2012 09:12 PM ET (US)            

TEA PARTIES
ARE FOR LITTLE GIRLS WITH IMAGINARY FRIENDS.

posted 08-10-2012 11:24 PM ET (US)            

I disagree with the one point where they aren't out to generate revenue, it is not true, or they might simply award it {100%} to eradication efforts. But they instead place every penny of income in the general fund to spend on BS studies and BS actions.

It is true the high dollar homes on the waterfront, do create pressure for someone to do something. I also saw the milfoil cutter on the lake.
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/ 283206_10150263881234311_844046_n.jpg

I understand how it works and just don't trust a government that would hide cops behind bushes or charge for forest access and then charge to park there. Charge, charge, charge then write and pass a law where they can charge an outrageous amount for a spec of a weed? Whether they actually do or not is really irrelevant to me. It seems insane that we allow such abuse of power.

Oh lilwhaler, please ask jim to give you an old gal award, it should inflate your self importance even more, fun fun.

Binky, you caught me, I am just like your messiah, a Kenyan.

posted 08-11-2012 12:45 PM ET (US)            

Curious: I tried googling about milfoil on Lake Mead and found very little. I'm guessing we're not afflicted with milfoil, though you guys from back east did bring your Zebra and Quagga mussels out here. Then again, there are no natural lakes in the desert, and most of the shoreline vegetation, what little there is, is invasive/non-native. I LOL'ed when during the public commentary period, the folks who were pushing for a ban on two-strokes in Lake Mead brought up the idea that they harm the shoreline plants. The authorities responded that they were not overly concerned with that, since almost all the shore plants on Lake Mead are non-native/alien.

posted 08-11-2012 04:23 PM ET (US)            

The moves to eradicate milfoil from our waters will be interesting to watch since it is so far out of control it will mimic a keystone cops still movie.

Our taxes, being the only possible funding source, and knowing how badly the general fund is already stretched so thinly, it takes very little understanding to see that this infestation will not be corrected in our lifetimes.

Lake Mead might have a mineral makeup that resists the infestation. That would be great to find a natural way of dealing with this.

But until this happens, an unhealthy dose of Round-Up is my $450 dollar avoidance solution.

Go right ahead and call me names (We know who will do that) since I will be proactive in my responsibility for milfoil containment.

posted 08-11-2012 07:33 PM ET (US)            

Agreed.... come on guys. This is silly. Lizzie for once has the high ground here. Let's civilize ourselves.

Dave

posted 08-12-2012 10:02 AM ET (US)            

I will also quote from the EPA website on this topic:

quote:

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Invasive Plants

The Great Lakes have also been troubled by fast-growing invasive plants such as common reed (Phragmites australis), reed canary grass (Phalaris arundinacea), purple loosestrife (Lythrum salicaria), curly pondweed (Potamogeton crispus), Eurasian milfoil (Myriophyllum spicatum), frogbit (Hydrocharis morsus-ranae), and two types of non-native cattails (Typha angustifolia and Typha glauca).

---

Eurasian Milfoil is commonly seen in the Great Lakes. We were just at anchor in Baie Fine at The Pool and saw the effects of it.

Phragmites is a big problem in the St. Clair River delta. Phragmites was introduced there intentionally by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, as I recall, in an attempt to control shoreline erosion during the decades of extremely high water level in Lake Huron, c.1986. It has now supplanted the more desirable cat tails that used to flourish in the wetlands of the delta.

posted 08-12-2012 01:22 PM ET (US)            

...not that I use it that often...but it is there should JimH chasten my grammar, punctuation, etc.

:)