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Author Topic:   Wave Height -- What Say Ye?

David Pendleton posted 08-20-2012 12:57 AM ET (US)
I've only encountered scary wave heights once on L. Superior. I don't know what they were, but they were enough to split a weld on my hard top...
I came across this video and wondered: how high would you say these waves are?
http://youtu.be/c8FaotwbMdw
Here is reference data on the Callaway from the nerd:
http://www.boatnerd.com/pictures/fleet/callaway.htm
David Pendleton posted 08-20-2012 01:00 AM ET (US)
I'm going to say those are twenties. No where near what I encountered.
jimh posted 08-20-2012 08:16 AM ET (US)
Not only are those waves very high, they are very close together. A couple of pairs of 20-footers look like they are only 100-feet apart.
David Pendleton posted 08-20-2012 11:16 AM ET (US)
I should clarify, the waves I was referring to were much, much smaller than the ones in the video.
Plotman posted 08-20-2012 12:03 PM ET (US)
I took my 22 out on to the main lake one day about 6 or 8 years ago when the NWS said we had 14-16s. I went out the Duluth Entry, 6 miles down and in the Superior Entry.
Once I reaalized the boat could handle it fine and got over being terrified, it was actually kind of fun. That said, I have not since felt the need to do that again.
Tom W Clark posted 08-20-2012 12:41 PM ET (US)
The crests of those waves are just reaching the deck. The wave height was twice the distance from the deck to the static waterline of the Callaway (loaded as it was on that day).
Yes, those were very big waves.
jimh posted 08-20-2012 01:44 PM ET (US)
According to
http://www.eagle.org/safenet/record/ record_vesseldetailsprinparticular?Classno=5200457&Accesstype=PUBLIC& ReferrerApplication=PUBLIC
the molded depth of the CALLOWAY is 10.9728 meters or 36-feet.
Lakers in ballast typically load to about 16-feet draft. Lakers in cargo usually load to about 23-feet, depending on the port they're going to and the season.
If the CALLOWAY were in ballast then the deck would be about 20-feet above the waterline; in cargo about 13-feet.
PeteB88 posted 08-20-2012 02:00 PM ET (US)
I'm gonna man up here - Great Lakes waves are much scarier to me than Pacific Ocean waves. Big rollers coming in with enough space between to spin around compared to saw-tooth nasty blue grey, cold too close together wanna kill ya waves around here. There. I admit it. But I do resonate with Plotman - must have been fun.
jimh posted 08-20-2012 05:09 PM ET (US)
From the same source I linked above, there is a dimension for freeboard as
3016.25-mm
and that converts to 9.9-feet. I presume at maximum loading permitted by the classification society the deck is therefore about 10-feet above the waterline of the CALLOWAY.
David Pendleton posted 08-20-2012 09:49 PM ET (US)
It was more fun to think they were twenties...
jimh posted 08-20-2012 09:53 PM ET (US)
Dave--We don't know how deeply the boat was loaded. The deck could be only 10-feet above the water line, or it could be 20-feet above the water line. It depends on the loading or ballasting.
Tom W Clark posted 08-20-2012 10:26 PM ET (US)
If the ship's freeboard were 10 feet, those waves are least 20 feet tall. Note that some of them are clearly well above the level of the deck which would put the wave height at about 21 to 22 feet.
jimh posted 08-20-2012 10:35 PM ET (US)
It was a following sea that sank the EDMUND FITZGERALD. Many people don't realize that. Three monster waves rolled through the 'FITZ from astern. They put so much water on the deck her hull buoyancy was overcome, and down she went--or so one theory says.
Plotman posted 08-21-2012 02:09 PM ET (US)
Oh, no Jim. Now you have really started it.
I for one, believe that the Fitz hit a shoal off of Caribou Islands and that that grounding - however momentary - set off the catastrophic chain of events.
At the time the Fitz sank Canadian Hydrographic charts were based on surveys from the 1800s. Updates have shown that there is a 30 foot spot over a mile farther from the island than believed at the time.
bluewaterpirate posted 08-21-2012 02:41 PM ET (US)
One of the most dangerous events for a large ship in heavy weather is hogging (bending of the hull. Older ships had expansion joints newer ones are designed to twist and yaw on the plate welds.
These are about the biggest you'll see in regards to waves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwKXfc_a4Ag&feature=related
swist posted 08-21-2012 07:22 PM ET (US)
PeteB88 - I agree.
I live on the "ferocious" North Atlantic in Maine now, but grew up on the shores of Lake Erie.
That Lake is so shallow, the space between wave peaks is very short - that's MUCH worse than 20 footers spaced wide apart.
Buckda posted 08-21-2012 07:37 PM ET (US)
I would agree that those look like 20'+ seas, which is pretty impressive for only halfway across the Lake.
The largest I've been out in would be forecast 12-14 footers...and that was plenty. I do remember salmon fishing one summer in what my dad said were forecast 12' seas - but they were a rare rolling wave - not cresting. Fishing that day was great, as I recall, but I was pretty young. That was aboard our 23' fishing boat we had on Lake Michigan when growing up. I remember looking up, and up, and up at the tops of the waves, and seeing nothing but water when we were in the troughs.
David Pendleton posted 08-21-2012 08:14 PM ET (US)
Dave, remember when Jerry and his buddy decided to head to Chippewa Harbor just as the remnants of Katrina were rolling across L. Superior?
They were forecasting 14+ that day. I don't recall what he told us he encountered out there, but I'll bet that was a wild ride.
Buckda posted 08-21-2012 08:31 PM ET (US)
I do remember that day. I also remember Jerry saying they were something like 10-12' waves...and "Really Big". But I guess when you boat in Lake Erie all the time, it's no big deal...
:)
KJ6TQG posted 08-22-2012 09:37 AM ET (US)
Not near twenty. More like 9-11 and blowing off the tops
Ridge Runner posted 08-22-2012 11:01 PM ET (US)
USS Kitty Hawk off Japan. The deck of the Kitty Hawk is about 100 feet above the surface of the ocean. Notice the chopper on the bow. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X_sley-Ylg

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Author	Topic: Wave Height -- What Say Ye?
David Pendleton	posted 08-20-2012 12:57 AM ET (US) I've only encountered scary wave heights once on L. Superior. I don't know what they were, but they were enough to split a weld on my hard top... I came across this video and wondered: how high would you say these waves are? http://youtu.be/c8FaotwbMdw Here is reference data on the Callaway from the nerd: http://www.boatnerd.com/pictures/fleet/callaway.htm
David Pendleton	posted 08-20-2012 01:00 AM ET (US) I'm going to say those are twenties. No where near what I encountered.
jimh	posted 08-20-2012 08:16 AM ET (US) Not only are those waves very high, they are very close together. A couple of pairs of 20-footers look like they are only 100-feet apart.
David Pendleton	posted 08-20-2012 11:16 AM ET (US) I should clarify, the waves I was referring to were much, much smaller than the ones in the video.
Plotman	posted 08-20-2012 12:03 PM ET (US) I took my 22 out on to the main lake one day about 6 or 8 years ago when the NWS said we had 14-16s. I went out the Duluth Entry, 6 miles down and in the Superior Entry. Once I reaalized the boat could handle it fine and got over being terrified, it was actually kind of fun. That said, I have not since felt the need to do that again.
Tom W Clark	posted 08-20-2012 12:41 PM ET (US) The crests of those waves are just reaching the deck. The wave height was twice the distance from the deck to the static waterline of the Callaway (loaded as it was on that day). Yes, those were very big waves.
jimh	posted 08-20-2012 01:44 PM ET (US) According to http://www.eagle.org/safenet/record/ record_vesseldetailsprinparticular?Classno=5200457&Accesstype=PUBLIC& ReferrerApplication=PUBLIC the molded depth of the CALLOWAY is 10.9728 meters or 36-feet. Lakers in ballast typically load to about 16-feet draft. Lakers in cargo usually load to about 23-feet, depending on the port they're going to and the season. If the CALLOWAY were in ballast then the deck would be about 20-feet above the waterline; in cargo about 13-feet.
PeteB88	posted 08-20-2012 02:00 PM ET (US) I'm gonna man up here - Great Lakes waves are much scarier to me than Pacific Ocean waves. Big rollers coming in with enough space between to spin around compared to saw-tooth nasty blue grey, cold too close together wanna kill ya waves around here. There. I admit it. But I do resonate with Plotman - must have been fun.
jimh	posted 08-20-2012 05:09 PM ET (US) From the same source I linked above, there is a dimension for freeboard as 3016.25-mm and that converts to 9.9-feet. I presume at maximum loading permitted by the classification society the deck is therefore about 10-feet above the waterline of the CALLOWAY.
David Pendleton	posted 08-20-2012 09:49 PM ET (US) It was more fun to think they were twenties...
jimh	posted 08-20-2012 09:53 PM ET (US) Dave--We don't know how deeply the boat was loaded. The deck could be only 10-feet above the water line, or it could be 20-feet above the water line. It depends on the loading or ballasting.
Tom W Clark	posted 08-20-2012 10:26 PM ET (US) If the ship's freeboard were 10 feet, those waves are least 20 feet tall. Note that some of them are clearly well above the level of the deck which would put the wave height at about 21 to 22 feet.
jimh	posted 08-20-2012 10:35 PM ET (US) It was a following sea that sank the EDMUND FITZGERALD. Many people don't realize that. Three monster waves rolled through the 'FITZ from astern. They put so much water on the deck her hull buoyancy was overcome, and down she went--or so one theory says.
Plotman	posted 08-21-2012 02:09 PM ET (US) Oh, no Jim. Now you have really started it. I for one, believe that the Fitz hit a shoal off of Caribou Islands and that that grounding - however momentary - set off the catastrophic chain of events. At the time the Fitz sank Canadian Hydrographic charts were based on surveys from the 1800s. Updates have shown that there is a 30 foot spot over a mile farther from the island than believed at the time.
bluewaterpirate	posted 08-21-2012 02:41 PM ET (US) One of the most dangerous events for a large ship in heavy weather is hogging (bending of the hull. Older ships had expansion joints newer ones are designed to twist and yaw on the plate welds. These are about the biggest you'll see in regards to waves. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwKXfc_a4Ag&feature=related
swist	posted 08-21-2012 07:22 PM ET (US) PeteB88 - I agree. I live on the "ferocious" North Atlantic in Maine now, but grew up on the shores of Lake Erie. That Lake is so shallow, the space between wave peaks is very short - that's MUCH worse than 20 footers spaced wide apart.
Buckda	posted 08-21-2012 07:37 PM ET (US) I would agree that those look like 20'+ seas, which is pretty impressive for only halfway across the Lake. The largest I've been out in would be forecast 12-14 footers...and that was plenty. I do remember salmon fishing one summer in what my dad said were forecast 12' seas - but they were a rare rolling wave - not cresting. Fishing that day was great, as I recall, but I was pretty young. That was aboard our 23' fishing boat we had on Lake Michigan when growing up. I remember looking up, and up, and up at the tops of the waves, and seeing nothing but water when we were in the troughs.
David Pendleton	posted 08-21-2012 08:14 PM ET (US) Dave, remember when Jerry and his buddy decided to head to Chippewa Harbor just as the remnants of Katrina were rolling across L. Superior? They were forecasting 14+ that day. I don't recall what he told us he encountered out there, but I'll bet that was a wild ride.
Buckda	posted 08-21-2012 08:31 PM ET (US) I do remember that day. I also remember Jerry saying they were something like 10-12' waves...and "Really Big". But I guess when you boat in Lake Erie all the time, it's no big deal... :)
KJ6TQG	posted 08-22-2012 09:37 AM ET (US) Not near twenty. More like 9-11 and blowing off the tops
Ridge Runner	posted 08-22-2012 11:01 PM ET (US) USS Kitty Hawk off Japan. The deck of the Kitty Hawk is about 100 feet above the surface of the ocean. Notice the chopper on the bow. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X_sley-Ylg