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Author Topic:   Mercury expanding in Fond Du Lac

Mambo Minnow posted 09-28-2012 06:20 PM ET (US)
Mercury broke ground on two major building expansion projects at Mercury headquarters in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin. The areas under expansion will include product development and engineering, component manufacturing and fabrication.
jimh posted 09-28-2012 08:13 PM ET (US)
Considering Fond du Lac won the contest with Stillwater, Oklahoma to see which group of workers would give up the most in previously obtained wages and benefits, it makes sense that Fond du Lac will expand. They have to take up the missing capacity that was created when Stillwater was shut down. Is there a press release on this that give some details?
Mambo Minnow posted 09-28-2012 08:49 PM ET (US)
JimH - Mercury posted via social media on their Facebook page. There is a picture of the executives with shovels, including the one Carl Kiekafer originally used to break ground in Fond Du Lac.
Here is a link: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151170032124337&set=a. 10150102017039337.281618.102064259336&type=1&theater
Sojo81007 posted 09-28-2012 10:53 PM ET (US)
Wonderful to see business expansion even in these difficult times! I love American companies expanding right here at home! Things are headed for a turnaround if we have a change of leadership, which I believe we will, and you are going to see a lot more industrial growth. Good deal!
Russ 13 posted 09-28-2012 11:19 PM ET (US)
I am not a fan of Mercury outboards, having suffered many
problems from their poor construction........BUT
It is GOOD to see more manufacturing in the USA!
Roughly ONLY 19% of our economy is from manufacturing.....
I think we would be much better off if this number was 60%.
Maybe Mercury will reverse the "build it in China" idea
and make a better product here.
fourdfish posted 09-29-2012 09:06 AM ET (US)
SO WHAT!
jimh posted 09-29-2012 11:27 AM ET (US)
Posted on Facebook? No wonder no one has heard about it.
jimh posted 09-30-2012 09:33 AM ET (US)
Is there any substantive information about the expansion? A picture of a half-dozen executives holding shovels and looking away from the camera is not exactly the sort of information content we usually provide here on CONTINOUSWAVE. If there is information about the plant expansion, readers--including me--will be keenly interested. But badly posed photographs are not the sort of thing to excite me.
prj posted 09-30-2012 12:31 PM ET (US)
Sure, I'll use Google to satisfy your request:
http:/ / www. jsonline. com/ business/ mercury-marine-launches-20-millio n-expansion-in-fond-du-lac-s56kq6h-167561965. html
jimh posted 09-30-2012 02:12 PM ET (US)
Patrick--Thanks for the link. I am getting worn out looking up the details about Mercury announcements when people start threads about them with precious little information. The local newspaper in Fond du Lac is a good source. Thanks for finding it. It was filled with good information.
As I speculated, and as the article confirms with this sentence,
Much of the expansion stems from the company closing a 700,000-square-foot plant in Stillwater, [Oklahoma], and moving the work to Fond du Lac,
it is to be expected that something would have to grow at Fond du Lac after Brunswick pulled up stakes--a circus metaphor that seems especially fitting--and left town in Oklahoma.
I have been looking at capital investment versus job creation in modern manufacturing in the United States of America, and, while my survey is not particularly broad or scientific, what I have observed is that to create a new job in a modern manufacturing plant generally requires an investment of about $1-million in capital. A new $200-million plant will have 200 workers, or so I have seen.
Mercury certainly has been treated royally by the local governments and taxpayers. The article reports as follows
State officials offered the company $70 million, mostly in the form of refundable tax credits, to protect jobs. Fond du Lac County gave the company a $50 million loan, paid for by a 0.5% sales tax, and the City of Fond du Lac offered $3 million in financial aid.
The governmental support totals $123-million. That is not bad. It was recently revealed that Mercury, as simply an operating unit of Brunswick which is based in Illinois, pays no income taxes in Wisconsin. I wonder how they're going to realize a tax credit if they don't pay income taxes? Perhaps on real estate taxes. But $70 million in real estate tax breaks really shifts the burden onto the future residents of Wisconsin. Instead of paying it forward it looks like Wisconsin will be paying for a long time forward for these jobs.
The politicians involved in these deals are just looking for immediate public relations benefits for themselves. A nice photo-opportunity at a ground breaking of a new plant helps them politically. By the time Fond du Lac residents are paying off the $70-million in lost tax revenue they'll have long forgotten the politician who made that crappy deal, unless, of course it was a Republican, in which case the blame will be carried forward for decades and used to attack others of the same party.
jimh posted 09-30-2012 02:15 PM ET (US)
By the way, how much is Mercury Marine investing in the expansion? Is that figure given anywhere?
prj posted 09-30-2012 08:59 PM ET (US)
Well, the article is titled "Mercury Marine launches $20 million expansion...". I'm not exactly clear on what portion of that is Brunswick money and what portion is the public's.
I won't defend corporate welfare of this scale, but to "wonder how they're going to realize a tax credit if they don't pay income taxes? Perhaps on real estate taxes." is willfully naive or misleading for someone with your wisdom, Jim Every expenditure those 2,600 employees and their families make positively affects an entire region.
jimh posted 09-30-2012 10:13 PM ET (US)
I moved your new topic to a separate thread.
I think you are saying the expansion at Fond du Lac is costing $20-million. What portion of that is being paid by Mercury directly?
How did the new job total get to 2,600? The article says 130 jobs. Please explain.
jimh posted 09-30-2012 11:13 PM ET (US)
Wait--I think I see why Patrick says that the $130-million in government funding will be applied across 2,600-jobs. The 2,600 jobs must be the total employment at Fond du Lac. That's the total number of jobs that Mercury threatened to move to Oklahoma if the State of Wisconsin did not come up with a more attractive financial incentive for Mercury than the one Oklahoma might offer. I got it, now. I should have seen that from the beginning. The $130-million was the ransom paid by Wisconsin when Mercury threatened to shut down their entire operation. That is where Patrick gets the figure of 2,600-jobs.
jimh posted 10-01-2012 12:57 AM ET (US)
Let's do some math:
2,600 jobs "saved" with $133,000,000 = $47,300-per-job.
If a worker earns enough wages in Wisconsin to have a taxable income of $47,300 their state income tax will be 6.5-percent. Each year they'll be sending the State of Wisconsin about $3,075 in income tax. At that rate, the State will get their investment back from those workers via income tax in 15 years.
prj posted 10-01-2012 10:35 AM ET (US)
First off, the statement that BRP also suckles at the public teat was NOT a separate topic, it was a point of comparison with Mercury and their distasteful methods that you introduced to the original topic of expansion.
Secondly, you are correct, I used the jobs saved figure in Fond du Lac as the real value achieved by Wisconsin in the Mercury extortion racket.
And finally, I'd guess that each of those Mercury employees spend somewhere between 95% and 110% of their annual income, the vast majority spent right here in Wisconsin. The value the State accrues from the "saved" employees runs far far larger than your simple, even naive, state income tax equation.
jimh posted 10-01-2012 04:07 PM ET (US)
Maybe we need a new thread on economic policy for state governance?
Patrick--why so tense?
prj posted 10-01-2012 05:02 PM ET (US)
Yea, sorry about that. Hadn't yet popped my morning beer ; )
L H G posted 10-01-2012 06:07 PM ET (US)
Another discussion meant to be positive about Mercury, the positive effect on the State of Wisconsin, and our Nation in general, goes sour at 11:27 AM, on the 29th, as they always do.
Mercury is getting a ton of publicity here these days (and any publicity is always valuable since it keeps the name in front of the readership), but it is evidently against Editorial Policy.
jimh posted 10-01-2012 09:31 PM ET (US)
Larry--After your lame post about Mercury's products that had ZERO information for three days, I spent a couple of hours writing lengthy promotions of Mercury's new products for you. I can't prop up your Mercury promotion machine 24/7, but I am doing my best. You maybe need to do some homework, write up something with some information, and give Mercury some support yourself. Stop complaining.
If you really wanted to help Mercury you'd buy a new engine once in a while instead of crowing about how great the 50-year-old ones are.
L H G posted 10-01-2012 09:37 PM ET (US)
In that different thread, not the subject of "Mambo's" discussion here, someone deleted the link to the Mercury press release.
jimh posted 10-01-2012 10:46 PM ET (US)
I hate articles that have nothing but links to press releases. Give me information, not links to press releases.
jimh posted 10-01-2012 11:09 PM ET (US)
Patrick--Maybe you need some ANACIN.

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Author	Topic: Mercury expanding in Fond Du Lac
Mambo Minnow	posted 09-28-2012 06:20 PM ET (US) Mercury broke ground on two major building expansion projects at Mercury headquarters in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin. The areas under expansion will include product development and engineering, component manufacturing and fabrication.
jimh	posted 09-28-2012 08:13 PM ET (US) Considering Fond du Lac won the contest with Stillwater, Oklahoma to see which group of workers would give up the most in previously obtained wages and benefits, it makes sense that Fond du Lac will expand. They have to take up the missing capacity that was created when Stillwater was shut down. Is there a press release on this that give some details?
Mambo Minnow	posted 09-28-2012 08:49 PM ET (US) JimH - Mercury posted via social media on their Facebook page. There is a picture of the executives with shovels, including the one Carl Kiekafer originally used to break ground in Fond Du Lac. Here is a link: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151170032124337&set=a. 10150102017039337.281618.102064259336&type=1&theater
Sojo81007	posted 09-28-2012 10:53 PM ET (US) Wonderful to see business expansion even in these difficult times! I love American companies expanding right here at home! Things are headed for a turnaround if we have a change of leadership, which I believe we will, and you are going to see a lot more industrial growth. Good deal!
Russ 13	posted 09-28-2012 11:19 PM ET (US) I am not a fan of Mercury outboards, having suffered many problems from their poor construction........BUT It is GOOD to see more manufacturing in the USA! Roughly ONLY 19% of our economy is from manufacturing..... I think we would be much better off if this number was 60%. Maybe Mercury will reverse the "build it in China" idea and make a better product here.
fourdfish	posted 09-29-2012 09:06 AM ET (US) SO WHAT!
jimh	posted 09-29-2012 11:27 AM ET (US) Posted on Facebook? No wonder no one has heard about it.
jimh	posted 09-30-2012 09:33 AM ET (US) Is there any substantive information about the expansion? A picture of a half-dozen executives holding shovels and looking away from the camera is not exactly the sort of information content we usually provide here on CONTINOUSWAVE. If there is information about the plant expansion, readers--including me--will be keenly interested. But badly posed photographs are not the sort of thing to excite me.
prj	posted 09-30-2012 12:31 PM ET (US) Sure, I'll use Google to satisfy your request: http:/ / www. jsonline. com/ business/ mercury-marine-launches-20-millio n-expansion-in-fond-du-lac-s56kq6h-167561965. html
jimh	posted 09-30-2012 02:12 PM ET (US) Patrick--Thanks for the link. I am getting worn out looking up the details about Mercury announcements when people start threads about them with precious little information. The local newspaper in Fond du Lac is a good source. Thanks for finding it. It was filled with good information. As I speculated, and as the article confirms with this sentence, Much of the expansion stems from the company closing a 700,000-square-foot plant in Stillwater, [Oklahoma], and moving the work to Fond du Lac, it is to be expected that something would have to grow at Fond du Lac after Brunswick pulled up stakes--a circus metaphor that seems especially fitting--and left town in Oklahoma. I have been looking at capital investment versus job creation in modern manufacturing in the United States of America, and, while my survey is not particularly broad or scientific, what I have observed is that to create a new job in a modern manufacturing plant generally requires an investment of about $1-million in capital. A new $200-million plant will have 200 workers, or so I have seen. Mercury certainly has been treated royally by the local governments and taxpayers. The article reports as follows State officials offered the company $70 million, mostly in the form of refundable tax credits, to protect jobs. Fond du Lac County gave the company a $50 million loan, paid for by a 0.5% sales tax, and the City of Fond du Lac offered $3 million in financial aid. The governmental support totals $123-million. That is not bad. It was recently revealed that Mercury, as simply an operating unit of Brunswick which is based in Illinois, pays no income taxes in Wisconsin. I wonder how they're going to realize a tax credit if they don't pay income taxes? Perhaps on real estate taxes. But $70 million in real estate tax breaks really shifts the burden onto the future residents of Wisconsin. Instead of paying it forward it looks like Wisconsin will be paying for a long time forward for these jobs. The politicians involved in these deals are just looking for immediate public relations benefits for themselves. A nice photo-opportunity at a ground breaking of a new plant helps them politically. By the time Fond du Lac residents are paying off the $70-million in lost tax revenue they'll have long forgotten the politician who made that crappy deal, unless, of course it was a Republican, in which case the blame will be carried forward for decades and used to attack others of the same party.
jimh	posted 09-30-2012 02:15 PM ET (US) By the way, how much is Mercury Marine investing in the expansion? Is that figure given anywhere?
prj	posted 09-30-2012 08:59 PM ET (US) Well, the article is titled "Mercury Marine launches $20 million expansion...". I'm not exactly clear on what portion of that is Brunswick money and what portion is the public's. I won't defend corporate welfare of this scale, but to "wonder how they're going to realize a tax credit if they don't pay income taxes? Perhaps on real estate taxes." is willfully naive or misleading for someone with your wisdom, Jim Every expenditure those 2,600 employees and their families make positively affects an entire region.
jimh	posted 09-30-2012 10:13 PM ET (US) I moved your new topic to a separate thread. I think you are saying the expansion at Fond du Lac is costing $20-million. What portion of that is being paid by Mercury directly? How did the new job total get to 2,600? The article says 130 jobs. Please explain.
jimh	posted 09-30-2012 11:13 PM ET (US) Wait--I think I see why Patrick says that the $130-million in government funding will be applied across 2,600-jobs. The 2,600 jobs must be the total employment at Fond du Lac. That's the total number of jobs that Mercury threatened to move to Oklahoma if the State of Wisconsin did not come up with a more attractive financial incentive for Mercury than the one Oklahoma might offer. I got it, now. I should have seen that from the beginning. The $130-million was the ransom paid by Wisconsin when Mercury threatened to shut down their entire operation. That is where Patrick gets the figure of 2,600-jobs.
jimh	posted 10-01-2012 12:57 AM ET (US) Let's do some math: 2,600 jobs "saved" with $133,000,000 = $47,300-per-job. If a worker earns enough wages in Wisconsin to have a taxable income of $47,300 their state income tax will be 6.5-percent. Each year they'll be sending the State of Wisconsin about $3,075 in income tax. At that rate, the State will get their investment back from those workers via income tax in 15 years.
prj	posted 10-01-2012 10:35 AM ET (US) First off, the statement that BRP also suckles at the public teat was NOT a separate topic, it was a point of comparison with Mercury and their distasteful methods that you introduced to the original topic of expansion. Secondly, you are correct, I used the jobs saved figure in Fond du Lac as the real value achieved by Wisconsin in the Mercury extortion racket. And finally, I'd guess that each of those Mercury employees spend somewhere between 95% and 110% of their annual income, the vast majority spent right here in Wisconsin. The value the State accrues from the "saved" employees runs far far larger than your simple, even naive, state income tax equation.
jimh	posted 10-01-2012 04:07 PM ET (US) Maybe we need a new thread on economic policy for state governance? Patrick--why so tense?
prj	posted 10-01-2012 05:02 PM ET (US) Yea, sorry about that. Hadn't yet popped my morning beer ; )
L H G	posted 10-01-2012 06:07 PM ET (US) Another discussion meant to be positive about Mercury, the positive effect on the State of Wisconsin, and our Nation in general, goes sour at 11:27 AM, on the 29th, as they always do. Mercury is getting a ton of publicity here these days (and any publicity is always valuable since it keeps the name in front of the readership), but it is evidently against Editorial Policy.
jimh	posted 10-01-2012 09:31 PM ET (US) Larry--After your lame post about Mercury's products that had ZERO information for three days, I spent a couple of hours writing lengthy promotions of Mercury's new products for you. I can't prop up your Mercury promotion machine 24/7, but I am doing my best. You maybe need to do some homework, write up something with some information, and give Mercury some support yourself. Stop complaining. If you really wanted to help Mercury you'd buy a new engine once in a while instead of crowing about how great the 50-year-old ones are.
L H G	posted 10-01-2012 09:37 PM ET (US) In that different thread, not the subject of "Mambo's" discussion here, someone deleted the link to the Mercury press release.
jimh	posted 10-01-2012 10:46 PM ET (US) I hate articles that have nothing but links to press releases. Give me information, not links to press releases.
jimh	posted 10-01-2012 11:09 PM ET (US) Patrick--Maybe you need some ANACIN.