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Author Topic:   Steamer Carl D. Bradley

jimh posted 11-18-2012 04:42 PM ET (US)
Fifty-four years ago today, about an hour from now, the steamer CARL D. BRADLEY sank in a storm in Lake Michigan. Of a crew of 35 only two survived. At the time of the sinking, the BRADLEY was in ballast and heading northbound in large seas from the southwest. She broke in two and sank in 340-feet of water, about [12] miles from Gull Island, near Beaver Island, in northern Lake Michigan. Winds were reported at 65-MPH and waves were 30-feet or higher. Of the 33 crew that died, 23 were from the town of Rogers City.
The sinking of the BRADLEY is not as well known as some other Great Lakes' tragedies. No songs were written about it. Over the years it has not attracted as much attention or speculation as other modern ship losses.
This November 18th began as a very unusual foggy morning in Michigan. The wind has been calm all day. It is ending with a clear sky and a beautiful sunset.
I am sure in Rogers City this morning there were many prayers in church for the departed souls of the crew of the CARL D. BRADLEY.
Dave Sutton posted 11-18-2012 06:27 PM ET (US)
Thanks Jim for mentioning this.
The Bradley is one if the wrecks that we dive, she's considered one of the Apex-Dives for a technical diver. At nearly 400 feet of ice water, she's perfectly preserved in every way. It's an awe inspiring experience to see her. All but two were lost. And shes still causing losses: We lost a diver on her last summer, 350 feet is a bad place to suffer a cardiac event. She's a wreck to be greatly respected, more difficult in my opinion to dive than the Andrea Doria. We eat at a small diner in Rogers City when we dive in Presque Isle MI, and we don't talk about the Bradley at the table. You never know if the girl behind the counter lost her grandfather, or the guy eating eggs at the counter lost a father.

Dave
.
fno posted 11-19-2012 08:35 AM ET (US)
Dave, 350 feet under in 33 degree water is not my cup of tea. I have done a few dives in the Lakes and most were at minimum uncomfortable to a max of painful. The wrecks are shurely the best preserved that I have ever seen. However, I do think 350' is pushing the envelope without support divers, rebreathers, and a nearby chamber. I think I will stick with my dark, silty caves and getting chased by bull sharks in the Gulf of Mexico.
Jeff posted 11-19-2012 10:15 AM ET (US)
Was the Bradley the sistership to the Saginaw?
http://www.boatnerd.com/pictures/fleet/saginaw.htm
jimh posted 11-19-2012 12:24 PM ET (US)
There is a very good Wikipedia article on the CARL D. BRADLEY at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Carl_D._Bradley
She was built long before the SAGINAW. The BRADLEY had an unusual steam-electric propulsion system. I don't think this propulsion system was used in other Great Lakes bulk carriers.
Dave Sutton posted 11-19-2012 01:52 PM ET (US)
Jim's right, the Bradley was unique although many books cite the Cedarville as her sister. A team of four divers made it into the engine room of the Bradley last year, and the interior is still immaculate with the large art deco "GE" markings on her General Electric generators, run by steam turbines. Her propulsion was innovative, and was a technology demonstrator in many ways. Steam turbines ran generators. Everything else was electric, including her main propulsion motors. The dives into the engine room involved penetrating thru her coal bunkers, down the coal chutes, and into her boiler spaces. Then thru hatches into the engine room proper. I consider this to be one of the most demanding dives ever done, and the divers deserve full credit for capability. Two were on rebreathers, two were open circuit. One was a woman. Definitely the big leagues.
Diving to these depths are generally rebreather dives. We see about one open circuit diver for every ten rebreather divers.
We do the cave dives and bull shark stuff too... Last bull shark I saw was when setting the hook on the Wilkes Barre off of the MV Spree out of Key West a few years ago. Off to cave country in three weeks for the annual "lets look at wet rocks" trip. But nothing beats the Great Lakes wrecks. Technology makes it possible. Not easy... Just possible.

Dave
.
Eagleman posted 11-19-2012 06:37 PM ET (US)
For all the times that I've boated in the area it's humbling to realize all the tradegy that lies on the bottom of the lake as we enjoy ourselves topside. As a recreational boater I pick and choose my days on the water, unfortunately people that make their livings transporting products to and from aren't as fortunate. Boston Whaler's legendry hull gives me peace of mind when ever the weather conditions fall apart I can't get off the water.
jimh posted 11-19-2012 06:55 PM ET (US)
Following the sinking of the BRADLEY, there was a Coast Guard investigation. From the testimony of the survivors and others, the USCG issued several recommendations. In regard to life vests (or personal floatation devices as they are called now), the USCG recommended changing to a vest with retaining straps (or "crotch straps") and to add a collar to support the head above the water. This was probably the beginning of the Type-I PFD as we know it today.
There were many life vests recovered which were laced up but not being worn, which was considered evidence of the life vest having come off a sailors body in the waves.
In an interview with a Coastguardsman who was on the scene, the many victims whose bodies were recovered were described as having broken necks, probably from being tossed around in the waves. The use of the stiff cork vests was also changed, and kapok began to be used instead.
Cf.: http://www.uscg.mil/history/weboralhistory/EtienneJoseph09182007.pdf
fno posted 11-19-2012 06:56 PM ET (US)
Dave, give me a holler when you are in Florida. I am in between High Springs and Fort White. I sent a PM with contact info. If I am in town, that is....
Dave Sutton posted 11-19-2012 07:15 PM ET (US)
Will do! Meet me at Amigos!
Dave
.
jimh posted 11-19-2012 10:54 PM ET (US)
I read the USCG report of the investigation. It gives some information about the position of the sinking.
The M/V CHRISTIAN SANTORI was southbound on Lake Michigan and had the BRADLEY in sight. At 1730 the SANTORI was reported to be "approximately six miles distant from Gull Island, bearing 260° true from Gull Island Light, [making course 240° true] with the CARL D. BRADLEY 10–15° on her port bow." That position and course line are shown below, with the bearing of 10° on the port bow also shown.
The CARL D BRADLEY took a radio direction finder fix on the Lansing Shoals beacon of 051° sometime before 1700. This line of position is shown.
The MAYDAY call described the BRADLEY's position as "12 miles southwest of Gull Island." The position is plotted from the Gull Island Light and is shown at 240° instead of 235° so that it intersects with the last known line of position. This is a not quite proper, as the BRADLEY was steering course 046°T, but the LOP via RDF is the most recent position we have relative to the MAYDAY bearing of 12 miles. We don't have the precise time of the RDF LOP so we can't really advance it on the DR plot.
Finally, the position of an oil slick found several days later is shown. This position correlates well with the reported water depth in the vicinity of the wreck, reported as 340-feet. The oil slick is describe in the official report to be 5.5-miles from Boulder Reef Buoy bearing 314° I have plotted it in that location.
I have not found any wreck latitude and longitude coordinates from recent dives. I did find an old position report for the wreck but it was way off from the area shown here, and I don't think it is accurate.
Here is a plot of the several navigation elements mentioned above. Again, these are all from the official report:
jimh posted 11-19-2012 11:06 PM ET (US)
When I look at the plot above, I notice that there is rather shoal water just to the east of the approximate position. With the seas running 30-feet and the boat loaded to a draft of about 23-feet, it would be prudent to stay out of shoal water. If we figure the wave height from trough to crest is 30-feet, this implies in a trough the water would be down 15-feet from normal. If we add 15-feet to the 23-feet draft, we need 38-feet of water or the ship is aground. It is also prudent to keep more water under the hull to avoid pressure building up from the approaching lake bottom, so 50 or 60 feet might be the minimum.
In the vicinity of the sinking there is water with only 40-feet of depth. If the BRADLEY were a bit farther east than it thought it was, it could have passed over some very shoal water for the wave heights that evening.
jimh posted 11-19-2012 11:11 PM ET (US)
Another thought: the seas coming up from the South would have been building to even larger height when they encountered Boulder Shoal. This may have caused the wave height in that area to become even larger than the 30-feet reported in the open lake.
Dave Sutton posted 11-20-2012 09:04 AM ET (US)
Jim,
I'm not where I can access Lat/Lon of the wreck site at present, but it's quite a bit southwest of anything on your plot. I can send the position later, might be after Thanksgiving though.
The wreck lays in 360 feet of water, so look for that line on your chart. There's a washout to 380 midships at the break.
The Bradley was, as we all know, on an unscheduled "last trip of the season", done as a surprise to the crew who thought that she would be put down "cold ship" for the winter. There's no doubt that she was structurally compromised before the last trip: sailors aboard reported collecting buckets of rivets from her decks after storms, as she flexed in the waves. Add to that what we know about the Morrell breaking in half, and what we now know about the Edmund Fitzgerald also breaking in half, and the evidence points to a structural failure due to fatigue, not any particular incident.
I tried to search this morning for the name of yet another laker that broke in half and sank under tow by a Polish tugboat, which was photographed by the captain of the tug. It shows clearly how these ships fail catastrophically when the box-structure is compromised. I could not find the photos, but will keep searching. Anyone wanting to try to google for the photos, she was a Canadian bulker being towed by a Polish tug to a breakers yard overseas, sank just off the east coast of Canada.
The actual break on the Bradley is essentially buried in mud, the hulk folded into a shallow "V" shape, bow and stern higher than the break point. She threw enough mud OVER the decks at the break so as to obscure detailed examination by divers. The jury is still out as if she is fully broken, or has some structure still connecting the two halves. Our guess is that the two sections are still connected somehow. The truth will likely never be known.

Dave
.
jimh posted 11-20-2012 09:33 AM ET (US)
Dave--I am curious about the position, but I doubt that I will ever visit, even if just to pass over the surface. It looks like a minimum of 35-miles from the closest mainland shore, and that is a long way out in the lake for me.
Another aspect of the CARL D. BRADLEY was its longitudinal framing, or Isherwood frame construction. This is mentioned in Michael Schumacher's fine account, Wreck of the Carl D. For more on longitudinal framing, see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longitudinal_framing
jimh posted 11-20-2012 10:25 AM ET (US)
I think Dave is referring to the sistership of the Daniel J. Morrell, the steamer Edward Y. Townsend. An article on the Morrel notes:

quote:
On November 30, [1966] the Edward Y. Townsend, which had been following approximately two hours astern of the Morrell off Harbor Beach, arrived at Lime Island on the St. Marys River to take on fuel. As a result of loose rivets in the deck plating observed by her crew and a crack from the starboard corner of hatch No. 10 running beneath the deck strap between hatches and sheer strake along the starboard side of the vessel, a Coast Guard inspector boarded the ship upon its arrival at the Soo on December 2nd. The preliminary inspection's findings resulted in the ship's Certificate of Inspection being withdrawn, directing the vessel to be drydocked for further survey and repair via unmanned tow. Less than two years later, while under tow in the North Atlantic en route to Europe for scrapping, the ship would break up and sink in the general vicinity of the Titanic.
Source: http://lakelandboating.com/morrell/
jimh posted 11-26-2012 08:26 PM ET (US)
There is a song about the wreck of the Carl D. Bradley. Lee Murdock has recored Larry Penn's song. Preview at
http://www.amazon.com/Wreck-Carl-D-Bradley/dp/B0014BWS4U
Dave Sutton posted 11-26-2012 08:46 PM ET (US)
Other wrecks have songs, too: When Jitka found the wreck of the L.R. Doty, a Milwaukee group wrote and performed this to commemorate the wreck.
http://testarosamusic.com/album/the-l-r-doty-single
There are actually two versions of the song, both are good. The lyrics are historically accurate: The Doty was towing her consort, the Olive Jeanette, which survived. The entire story was told in the National Geographic Explorer episode "Ghost Ships of the Great Lakes". It's a good episode.

Dave
.
jimh posted 12-02-2012 11:07 AM ET (US)
In the song Wreck of the Carl D. Bradley the refrain repeats the line
"There's nothing that you can do, Mister Fleming."
The meaning and source of this may not be immediately clear to the casual listener. "Mister Fleming" is the BRADLEY's First Mate, Elmer H. Fleming, who was one of only two to survive. According to author Don Davenport's account of the sinking (Fire and Ice: Shipwreck on Lake Michigan, Northwood Press, 1983) in the seconds before the BRADLEY sank, Fleming asked the vessel Master, Roland Bryan, "What do you want me to do?" Bryan is said to have replied, "There is nothing that you can do!" This explanation is given in the liner notes of the original recording by the song's author, Larry Penn.
jimh posted 12-05-2012 11:51 PM ET (US)
I was watching a documentary about Great Lakes ship wrecks recently. An older fellow appeared on camera in an interview--sorry I don't have his name--identified as a Great Lakes Ship Historian. The fellow mentioned that there was a maritime oriented society that held monthly meetings--again, sorry, but I don't have the name--and produced detailed minutes of these meetings. He recalled a meeting that took place prior to the loss of the BRADLEY, in which a University of Michigan professor of Naval Architecture spoke. The professor was paraphrased as having said something like this:
"We can design ships with proper structure and strengths, but once they are put into service we can't control how they are used and maintained. Some ships are worn out before their time due to bad loading procedures."
The fellow went on to say that the professor specifically mentioned the BRADLEY as an example of a modern ship, well designed, and well built, that was being made old before her time due to poor loading procedures.
Dave Sutton posted 12-06-2012 09:58 AM ET (US)
That would be Brendon Baillod, who is the historian that we have as part if our shipwreck hunting team. He's likely the most authoritative researcher in the lakes.
Do yourself a favor and watch the National Geographic Explorer episode "Ghost Ships of the Great Lakes". You'll see some familiar faces.

Dave
.
jimh posted 12-06-2012 11:31 AM ET (US)
Dave--You may be correct. The recorded presentation was made in 2001 and was produced in standard definition NTSC video using less than state-of-the-art equipment and production techniques. The snippet of information I mentioned was the most interesting comment in the entire one-hour-long presentation, and I am not too inclined to sit though it a second time to get the fellow's name and the details.
ASIDE: There was one other interesting fact mentioned in regard to the EDMUND FITZGERALD sinking. One of the presenters mentioned that there were two sister-ships to the FITZ, and following the sinking neither sailed again. I believe one was the ARTHUR B. HOMER. I don't think the other ship was mentioned. Do you happen to know the other sister-ship? And is that true they were scraped out?
Dave Sutton posted 12-06-2012 12:20 PM ET (US)
The term "Sister Ship" is an ambiguous one. It can mean a member of the same owners fleet, a similar but not identical ship, or one built to the same drawing, IE and identical twin. After all we are often told that the Cedarville is a sister ship of the Bradley: but they are not identical ships at all. Paint scheme and basic layout does not a sister make.
As far as I know, the Homer was a ship built using similar co struction methods by the same yard, but the Fitz was a one-of ship. The Homer was scrapped after her lengthening, and you can read between the lines that there were concerns about her integrity. I've never heard of a third ship claimed to be her "sister" and other than sharing all welded construction and the shipyard that laid them down, the Fitz and the Homer were at best cousins.--Dave
jimh posted 12-06-2012 09:49 PM ET (US)
Dave--Here is the material I was referring to in my comment about the BRADLEY by a naval architect (above). I sat through the video again to find it and transcribe it:
"The Marine Historical Society of Detroit--I was active in that for many many years--and...in the early days we used to keep voluminous minutes. Any time a speaker spoke it was all written out [in the minutes]...In one set of minutes there was a naval architect from the University of Michigan who was speaking about how they design and test and build these modern freighters. And...he says, 'Now we can build all these safety factors into the ship, but what happens after they're launched and how they're treated by the loading docks and the crews, we can't control that.' And he says, 'Some of the ships have had a lot of their life taken away from them by improper loading, for example, the CARL BRADLEY.'
Now this was...eight or ten years before she sunk, and this man cited her as an example of a modern vessel that had been mistreated.
Now I never saw that come out in the hearing, and...of course the minutes we had we never published them."
Dave Glick,
Marine Historian
Appearing on camera in
Great Lakes Shipwreck Disasters
produced by Southport Video Productions, Kenosha, Wisconsin, 2001
Dave Sutton posted 12-07-2012 12:01 AM ET (US)
Hmmm: I don't know him but Brendan will. Ill ask around a bit.
There are HUGE archives available for those who know where to search. Even the 1800's wrecks left litigation trails. Court records are among the best research tools we have.
There is a little gulf between the Detroit based researchers, and the Wisconsin and Upper Pennunsula researchers, being reduced by the Internet, but prior to that it was just hard to collaborate across the lake.

Dave
.
jimh posted 12-08-2012 12:55 PM ET (US)
I just finished reading my third book on the BRADLEY sinking:
Fire and Ice: Shipwreck on Lake Michigan, Northwood Press, 1983
Don Davenport wrote the section on the BRADLEY sinking.
This is a very good account of the sinking and provides some interesting excerpts from documents and interviews from the period just after the sinking.

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Author	Topic: Steamer Carl D. Bradley
jimh	posted 11-18-2012 04:42 PM ET (US) Fifty-four years ago today, about an hour from now, the steamer CARL D. BRADLEY sank in a storm in Lake Michigan. Of a crew of 35 only two survived. At the time of the sinking, the BRADLEY was in ballast and heading northbound in large seas from the southwest. She broke in two and sank in 340-feet of water, about [12] miles from Gull Island, near Beaver Island, in northern Lake Michigan. Winds were reported at 65-MPH and waves were 30-feet or higher. Of the 33 crew that died, 23 were from the town of Rogers City. The sinking of the BRADLEY is not as well known as some other Great Lakes' tragedies. No songs were written about it. Over the years it has not attracted as much attention or speculation as other modern ship losses. This November 18th began as a very unusual foggy morning in Michigan. The wind has been calm all day. It is ending with a clear sky and a beautiful sunset. I am sure in Rogers City this morning there were many prayers in church for the departed souls of the crew of the CARL D. BRADLEY.
Dave Sutton	posted 11-18-2012 06:27 PM ET (US) Thanks Jim for mentioning this. The Bradley is one if the wrecks that we dive, she's considered one of the Apex-Dives for a technical diver. At nearly 400 feet of ice water, she's perfectly preserved in every way. It's an awe inspiring experience to see her. All but two were lost. And shes still causing losses: We lost a diver on her last summer, 350 feet is a bad place to suffer a cardiac event. She's a wreck to be greatly respected, more difficult in my opinion to dive than the Andrea Doria. We eat at a small diner in Rogers City when we dive in Presque Isle MI, and we don't talk about the Bradley at the table. You never know if the girl behind the counter lost her grandfather, or the guy eating eggs at the counter lost a father. Dave .
fno	posted 11-19-2012 08:35 AM ET (US) Dave, 350 feet under in 33 degree water is not my cup of tea. I have done a few dives in the Lakes and most were at minimum uncomfortable to a max of painful. The wrecks are shurely the best preserved that I have ever seen. However, I do think 350' is pushing the envelope without support divers, rebreathers, and a nearby chamber. I think I will stick with my dark, silty caves and getting chased by bull sharks in the Gulf of Mexico.
Jeff	posted 11-19-2012 10:15 AM ET (US) Was the Bradley the sistership to the Saginaw? http://www.boatnerd.com/pictures/fleet/saginaw.htm
jimh	posted 11-19-2012 12:24 PM ET (US) There is a very good Wikipedia article on the CARL D. BRADLEY at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Carl_D._Bradley She was built long before the SAGINAW. The BRADLEY had an unusual steam-electric propulsion system. I don't think this propulsion system was used in other Great Lakes bulk carriers.
Dave Sutton	posted 11-19-2012 01:52 PM ET (US) Jim's right, the Bradley was unique although many books cite the Cedarville as her sister. A team of four divers made it into the engine room of the Bradley last year, and the interior is still immaculate with the large art deco "GE" markings on her General Electric generators, run by steam turbines. Her propulsion was innovative, and was a technology demonstrator in many ways. Steam turbines ran generators. Everything else was electric, including her main propulsion motors. The dives into the engine room involved penetrating thru her coal bunkers, down the coal chutes, and into her boiler spaces. Then thru hatches into the engine room proper. I consider this to be one of the most demanding dives ever done, and the divers deserve full credit for capability. Two were on rebreathers, two were open circuit. One was a woman. Definitely the big leagues. Diving to these depths are generally rebreather dives. We see about one open circuit diver for every ten rebreather divers. We do the cave dives and bull shark stuff too... Last bull shark I saw was when setting the hook on the Wilkes Barre off of the MV Spree out of Key West a few years ago. Off to cave country in three weeks for the annual "lets look at wet rocks" trip. But nothing beats the Great Lakes wrecks. Technology makes it possible. Not easy... Just possible. Dave .
Eagleman	posted 11-19-2012 06:37 PM ET (US) For all the times that I've boated in the area it's humbling to realize all the tradegy that lies on the bottom of the lake as we enjoy ourselves topside. As a recreational boater I pick and choose my days on the water, unfortunately people that make their livings transporting products to and from aren't as fortunate. Boston Whaler's legendry hull gives me peace of mind when ever the weather conditions fall apart I can't get off the water.
jimh	posted 11-19-2012 06:55 PM ET (US) Following the sinking of the BRADLEY, there was a Coast Guard investigation. From the testimony of the survivors and others, the USCG issued several recommendations. In regard to life vests (or personal floatation devices as they are called now), the USCG recommended changing to a vest with retaining straps (or "crotch straps") and to add a collar to support the head above the water. This was probably the beginning of the Type-I PFD as we know it today. There were many life vests recovered which were laced up but not being worn, which was considered evidence of the life vest having come off a sailors body in the waves. In an interview with a Coastguardsman who was on the scene, the many victims whose bodies were recovered were described as having broken necks, probably from being tossed around in the waves. The use of the stiff cork vests was also changed, and kapok began to be used instead. Cf.: http://www.uscg.mil/history/weboralhistory/EtienneJoseph09182007.pdf
fno	posted 11-19-2012 06:56 PM ET (US) Dave, give me a holler when you are in Florida. I am in between High Springs and Fort White. I sent a PM with contact info. If I am in town, that is....
Dave Sutton	posted 11-19-2012 07:15 PM ET (US) Will do! Meet me at Amigos! Dave .
jimh	posted 11-19-2012 10:54 PM ET (US) I read the USCG report of the investigation. It gives some information about the position of the sinking. The M/V CHRISTIAN SANTORI was southbound on Lake Michigan and had the BRADLEY in sight. At 1730 the SANTORI was reported to be "approximately six miles distant from Gull Island, bearing 260° true from Gull Island Light, [making course 240° true] with the CARL D. BRADLEY 10–15° on her port bow." That position and course line are shown below, with the bearing of 10° on the port bow also shown. The CARL D BRADLEY took a radio direction finder fix on the Lansing Shoals beacon of 051° sometime before 1700. This line of position is shown. The MAYDAY call described the BRADLEY's position as "12 miles southwest of Gull Island." The position is plotted from the Gull Island Light and is shown at 240° instead of 235° so that it intersects with the last known line of position. This is a not quite proper, as the BRADLEY was steering course 046°T, but the LOP via RDF is the most recent position we have relative to the MAYDAY bearing of 12 miles. We don't have the precise time of the RDF LOP so we can't really advance it on the DR plot. Finally, the position of an oil slick found several days later is shown. This position correlates well with the reported water depth in the vicinity of the wreck, reported as 340-feet. The oil slick is describe in the official report to be 5.5-miles from Boulder Reef Buoy bearing 314° I have plotted it in that location. I have not found any wreck latitude and longitude coordinates from recent dives. I did find an old position report for the wreck but it was way off from the area shown here, and I don't think it is accurate. Here is a plot of the several navigation elements mentioned above. Again, these are all from the official report:
jimh	posted 11-19-2012 11:06 PM ET (US) When I look at the plot above, I notice that there is rather shoal water just to the east of the approximate position. With the seas running 30-feet and the boat loaded to a draft of about 23-feet, it would be prudent to stay out of shoal water. If we figure the wave height from trough to crest is 30-feet, this implies in a trough the water would be down 15-feet from normal. If we add 15-feet to the 23-feet draft, we need 38-feet of water or the ship is aground. It is also prudent to keep more water under the hull to avoid pressure building up from the approaching lake bottom, so 50 or 60 feet might be the minimum. In the vicinity of the sinking there is water with only 40-feet of depth. If the BRADLEY were a bit farther east than it thought it was, it could have passed over some very shoal water for the wave heights that evening.
jimh	posted 11-19-2012 11:11 PM ET (US) Another thought: the seas coming up from the South would have been building to even larger height when they encountered Boulder Shoal. This may have caused the wave height in that area to become even larger than the 30-feet reported in the open lake.
Dave Sutton	posted 11-20-2012 09:04 AM ET (US) Jim, I'm not where I can access Lat/Lon of the wreck site at present, but it's quite a bit southwest of anything on your plot. I can send the position later, might be after Thanksgiving though. The wreck lays in 360 feet of water, so look for that line on your chart. There's a washout to 380 midships at the break. The Bradley was, as we all know, on an unscheduled "last trip of the season", done as a surprise to the crew who thought that she would be put down "cold ship" for the winter. There's no doubt that she was structurally compromised before the last trip: sailors aboard reported collecting buckets of rivets from her decks after storms, as she flexed in the waves. Add to that what we know about the Morrell breaking in half, and what we now know about the Edmund Fitzgerald also breaking in half, and the evidence points to a structural failure due to fatigue, not any particular incident. I tried to search this morning for the name of yet another laker that broke in half and sank under tow by a Polish tugboat, which was photographed by the captain of the tug. It shows clearly how these ships fail catastrophically when the box-structure is compromised. I could not find the photos, but will keep searching. Anyone wanting to try to google for the photos, she was a Canadian bulker being towed by a Polish tug to a breakers yard overseas, sank just off the east coast of Canada. The actual break on the Bradley is essentially buried in mud, the hulk folded into a shallow "V" shape, bow and stern higher than the break point. She threw enough mud OVER the decks at the break so as to obscure detailed examination by divers. The jury is still out as if she is fully broken, or has some structure still connecting the two halves. Our guess is that the two sections are still connected somehow. The truth will likely never be known. Dave .
jimh	posted 11-20-2012 09:33 AM ET (US) Dave--I am curious about the position, but I doubt that I will ever visit, even if just to pass over the surface. It looks like a minimum of 35-miles from the closest mainland shore, and that is a long way out in the lake for me. Another aspect of the CARL D. BRADLEY was its longitudinal framing, or Isherwood frame construction. This is mentioned in Michael Schumacher's fine account, Wreck of the Carl D. For more on longitudinal framing, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longitudinal_framing
jimh	posted 11-20-2012 10:25 AM ET (US) I think Dave is referring to the sistership of the Daniel J. Morrell, the steamer Edward Y. Townsend. An article on the Morrel notes: quote: On November 30, [1966] the Edward Y. Townsend, which had been following approximately two hours astern of the Morrell off Harbor Beach, arrived at Lime Island on the St. Marys River to take on fuel. As a result of loose rivets in the deck plating observed by her crew and a crack from the starboard corner of hatch No. 10 running beneath the deck strap between hatches and sheer strake along the starboard side of the vessel, a Coast Guard inspector boarded the ship upon its arrival at the Soo on December 2nd. The preliminary inspection's findings resulted in the ship's Certificate of Inspection being withdrawn, directing the vessel to be drydocked for further survey and repair via unmanned tow. Less than two years later, while under tow in the North Atlantic en route to Europe for scrapping, the ship would break up and sink in the general vicinity of the Titanic. Source: http://lakelandboating.com/morrell/
jimh	posted 11-26-2012 08:26 PM ET (US) There is a song about the wreck of the Carl D. Bradley. Lee Murdock has recored Larry Penn's song. Preview at http://www.amazon.com/Wreck-Carl-D-Bradley/dp/B0014BWS4U
Dave Sutton	posted 11-26-2012 08:46 PM ET (US) Other wrecks have songs, too: When Jitka found the wreck of the L.R. Doty, a Milwaukee group wrote and performed this to commemorate the wreck. http://testarosamusic.com/album/the-l-r-doty-single There are actually two versions of the song, both are good. The lyrics are historically accurate: The Doty was towing her consort, the Olive Jeanette, which survived. The entire story was told in the National Geographic Explorer episode "Ghost Ships of the Great Lakes". It's a good episode. Dave .
jimh	posted 12-02-2012 11:07 AM ET (US) In the song Wreck of the Carl D. Bradley the refrain repeats the line "There's nothing that you can do, Mister Fleming." The meaning and source of this may not be immediately clear to the casual listener. "Mister Fleming" is the BRADLEY's First Mate, Elmer H. Fleming, who was one of only two to survive. According to author Don Davenport's account of the sinking (Fire and Ice: Shipwreck on Lake Michigan, Northwood Press, 1983) in the seconds before the BRADLEY sank, Fleming asked the vessel Master, Roland Bryan, "What do you want me to do?" Bryan is said to have replied, "There is nothing that you can do!" This explanation is given in the liner notes of the original recording by the song's author, Larry Penn.
jimh	posted 12-05-2012 11:51 PM ET (US) I was watching a documentary about Great Lakes ship wrecks recently. An older fellow appeared on camera in an interview--sorry I don't have his name--identified as a Great Lakes Ship Historian. The fellow mentioned that there was a maritime oriented society that held monthly meetings--again, sorry, but I don't have the name--and produced detailed minutes of these meetings. He recalled a meeting that took place prior to the loss of the BRADLEY, in which a University of Michigan professor of Naval Architecture spoke. The professor was paraphrased as having said something like this: "We can design ships with proper structure and strengths, but once they are put into service we can't control how they are used and maintained. Some ships are worn out before their time due to bad loading procedures." The fellow went on to say that the professor specifically mentioned the BRADLEY as an example of a modern ship, well designed, and well built, that was being made old before her time due to poor loading procedures.
Dave Sutton	posted 12-06-2012 09:58 AM ET (US) That would be Brendon Baillod, who is the historian that we have as part if our shipwreck hunting team. He's likely the most authoritative researcher in the lakes. Do yourself a favor and watch the National Geographic Explorer episode "Ghost Ships of the Great Lakes". You'll see some familiar faces. Dave .
jimh	posted 12-06-2012 11:31 AM ET (US) Dave--You may be correct. The recorded presentation was made in 2001 and was produced in standard definition NTSC video using less than state-of-the-art equipment and production techniques. The snippet of information I mentioned was the most interesting comment in the entire one-hour-long presentation, and I am not too inclined to sit though it a second time to get the fellow's name and the details. ASIDE: There was one other interesting fact mentioned in regard to the EDMUND FITZGERALD sinking. One of the presenters mentioned that there were two sister-ships to the FITZ, and following the sinking neither sailed again. I believe one was the ARTHUR B. HOMER. I don't think the other ship was mentioned. Do you happen to know the other sister-ship? And is that true they were scraped out?
Dave Sutton	posted 12-06-2012 12:20 PM ET (US) The term "Sister Ship" is an ambiguous one. It can mean a member of the same owners fleet, a similar but not identical ship, or one built to the same drawing, IE and identical twin. After all we are often told that the Cedarville is a sister ship of the Bradley: but they are not identical ships at all. Paint scheme and basic layout does not a sister make. As far as I know, the Homer was a ship built using similar co struction methods by the same yard, but the Fitz was a one-of ship. The Homer was scrapped after her lengthening, and you can read between the lines that there were concerns about her integrity. I've never heard of a third ship claimed to be her "sister" and other than sharing all welded construction and the shipyard that laid them down, the Fitz and the Homer were at best cousins.--Dave
jimh	posted 12-06-2012 09:49 PM ET (US) Dave--Here is the material I was referring to in my comment about the BRADLEY by a naval architect (above). I sat through the video again to find it and transcribe it: "The Marine Historical Society of Detroit--I was active in that for many many years--and...in the early days we used to keep voluminous minutes. Any time a speaker spoke it was all written out [in the minutes]...In one set of minutes there was a naval architect from the University of Michigan who was speaking about how they design and test and build these modern freighters. And...he says, 'Now we can build all these safety factors into the ship, but what happens after they're launched and how they're treated by the loading docks and the crews, we can't control that.' And he says, 'Some of the ships have had a lot of their life taken away from them by improper loading, for example, the CARL BRADLEY.' Now this was...eight or ten years before she sunk, and this man cited her as an example of a modern vessel that had been mistreated. Now I never saw that come out in the hearing, and...of course the minutes we had we never published them." Dave Glick, Marine Historian Appearing on camera in Great Lakes Shipwreck Disasters produced by Southport Video Productions, Kenosha, Wisconsin, 2001
Dave Sutton	posted 12-07-2012 12:01 AM ET (US) Hmmm: I don't know him but Brendan will. Ill ask around a bit. There are HUGE archives available for those who know where to search. Even the 1800's wrecks left litigation trails. Court records are among the best research tools we have. There is a little gulf between the Detroit based researchers, and the Wisconsin and Upper Pennunsula researchers, being reduced by the Internet, but prior to that it was just hard to collaborate across the lake. Dave .
jimh	posted 12-08-2012 12:55 PM ET (US) I just finished reading my third book on the BRADLEY sinking: Fire and Ice: Shipwreck on Lake Michigan, Northwood Press, 1983 Don Davenport wrote the section on the BRADLEY sinking. This is a very good account of the sinking and provides some interesting excerpts from documents and interviews from the period just after the sinking.