Nighttime Electric Visual Distress Signals - Moderated Discussion Areas

  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: The Whaler GAM or General Area
  Nighttime Electric Visual Distress Signals

search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   Nighttime Electric Visual Distress Signals

wbullwin posted 03-25-2013 04:51 PM ET (US)
I have researched all over the internet looking for a Coast Guard approved electric distress signal. I have found strobe lights but that is it. Apparently, [ACR] did make one, but everyone says it is discontinued. The Coast Guard regulations say [an approved visual distress signal] has to be clearly marked by the manufacturer that it meets 46 CFR 161.013, states what type of battery, and life of battery. This type lamp has to flash S-O-S automatically.
I have sent an email today to Revere Supply (apparently a large safety and survival supplier)asking if they make such an animal but haven't heard bad yet.
If these are approved and really work, it seems a shame to go out and but flares that have to be replaced every 42 months and then try to find a place to dispose of them. I have a big pile of them and still looking for a place to get rid of them.
Has anyone seen one of these lamps? Own one? Do they work?
Hoosier posted 03-25-2013 05:20 PM ET (US)
I have one. It's basically a standard 6-Volt lantern in a yellow case that flashes SOS. I don't remember where I got it but it does say USCG Approved on it. I used it in passing my last Vessel Safety Check. I also have a newer high tech "Redline" LED light by NEBO that will strobe SOS for 72 hours but it doesn't say USCG Approved. I trust the LED more than the lantern but I have to have the lantern to be "legal."
wbullwin posted 03-25-2013 05:52 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the info. Where it is printed "Coast Guard Approved", does it state the numbers "42CFR161.013"? According to what I read, that is supposed to printed next to "Coast Guard Approved". Is there a manufacture's name on the 6V unit? I'll look at the NEBO too.
wbullwin posted 03-25-2013 06:20 PM ET (US)
I just went onto NEBO's website and looked the redline #5557. What a great light!! It is a shame that it is not CG approved. I sent NEBO an email asking if it was and just not printed on the flashlight. I also suggested that if it was, they could probably sell a ton of them to guys like me that don't want to keep buying flares.
Chap posted 03-25-2013 08:07 PM ET (US)
Hello. The Powerflare floats and says it meets USCG specs regarding SOS.
jimh posted 03-26-2013 08:09 AM ET (US)
USCG Requirements for vessels to carry visual distress signals are in 33 CFR 175.101. An excerpt follows:

quote:
[Title 33 CFR 175.110]
[Code of Federal Regulations (annual edition) - July 1, 2005 Edition]
[Title 33 - NAVIGATION AND NAVIGABLE WATERS]
[Chapter I - COAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY (CONTINUED)]
[Subchapter S - BOATING SAFETY]
[Part 175 - EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS]
[Subpart C - Visual Distress Signals]
[Sec. 175.110 - Visual distress signals required.]
[From the U.S. Government Printing Office]

33NAVIGATION AND NAVIGABLE WATERS22005-07-012005-07-01false175.110Sec. 175.110NAVIGATION AND NAVIGABLE WATERSCOAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY (CONTINUED)BOATING SAFETYEQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTSVisual Distress Signals
Sec. 175.110 Visual distress signals required.
(a) No person may use a boat 16 feet or more in length, or any boat
operating as an uninspected passenger vessel subject to the requirements
of 46 CFR chapter I, subchapter C, unless visual distress signals
selected from the list in Sec. 175.130 or the alternatives in Sec.
175.135, in the number required, are onboard. Devices suitable for day
use and devices suitable for night use, or devices suitable for both day
and night use, must be carried.
(b) Between sunset and sunrise, no person may use a boat less than
16 feet in length unless visual distress signals suitable for night use,
selected from the list in Sec. 175.130 or Sec. 175.135, in the number
required, are on board.
[CGD 76-183, 44 FR 73024, Dec. 17, 1979, as amended by USCG-1999-5040,
67 FR 34760, May 15, 2002]

Source: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2005-title33-vol2/html/ CFR-2005-title33-vol2-sec175-110.htm

quote:
[Title 33 CFR 175.130]
[Code of Federal Regulations (annual edition) - July 1, 2005 Edition]
[Title 33 - NAVIGATION AND NAVIGABLE WATERS]
[Chapter I - COAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY (CONTINUED)]
[Subchapter S - BOATING SAFETY]
[Part 175 - EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS]
[Subpart C - Visual Distress Signals]
[Sec. 175.130 - Visual distress signals accepted.]
[From the U.S. Government Printing Office]

33NAVIGATION AND NAVIGABLE WATERS22005-07-012005-07-01false175.130Sec. 175.130NAVIGATION AND NAVIGABLE WATERSCOAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY (CONTINUED)BOATING SAFETYEQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTSVisual Distress Signals
Sec. 175.130 Visual distress signals accepted.
(a) Any of the following signals, when carried in the number
required, can be used to meet the requirements of Sec. 175.110:
(1) An electric distress light meeting the standards of 46 CFR
161.013. One is
[[Page 851]]
required to meet the night only requirement.
(2) An orange flag meeting the standards of 46 CFR 160.072. One is
required to meet the day only requirement.
(3) Pyrotechnics meeting the standards noted in Table 175.130.
(b) Any combination of signal devices selected from the types noted
in paragraphs (a) (1), (2) and (3) of this section, when carried in the
number required, may be used to meet both day and night requirements.
Examples--the combination of two hand held red flares (160.021), and one
parachute red flare (160.024 or 160.036) meets both day and night
requirements. Three hand held orange smoke (160.037) with one electric
distress light (161.013) meet both day and night requirements.
Table 175.130--Pyrotechnic Signal Devices
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Approval
number Number
under 46 Device description Meets requirement for required
CFR
------------------------------------------------------------------------
160.021 Hand Held Red Flare Day and Night............ 3
Distress Signals \3\.
160.022 Floating Orange Smoke Day Only................. 3
Distress Signals.
160.024 Parachute Red Flare Day and Night \1\........ 3
Distress Signals.
160.036 Hand-Held Rocket- Day and Night............ 3
Propelled Parachute Red
Flare Distress Signals.
160.037 Hand-Held Orange Smoke Day Only................. 3
Distress Signals.
160.057 Floating Orange Smoke Day Only................. 3
Distress Signals.
160.066 Distress Signal for Day and Night \2\........ 3
Boats, Red Aerial
Pyrotechnic Flare.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ These signals require use in combination with a suitable launching
device approved under 46 CFR 160.028.
\2\ These devices may be either meteor or parachute assisted type. Some
of these signals may require use in combination with a suitable
launching device approved under 46 CFR 160.028.
\3\ Must have manufacture date of 1 Oct. 1980 or later.

[CGD 81-038-A, 47 FR 24548, June 7, 1982]

Source: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2005-title33-vol2/html/ CFR-2005-title33-vol2-sec175-130.htm
jimh posted 03-26-2013 08:22 AM ET (US)
From the above, it appears that carrying an orange flag as a day signal and one approved electric lamp as a night signal is sufficient to meet the requirements.
The requirements for the approved electric lamp are set out in 46 CFR 161.013, and are rather elaborate and complicated, thus not quoted here. See
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2012-title46-vol6/pdf/ CFR-2012-title46-vol6-sec161-013-1.pdf
and follow-on sections for details.
I do not see where the LED puck flare replacement is permitted under USCG regulations. I don't see where its manufacturer says it is approved by USCG. It is one thing to say it "meets specs" and another to be approved.
Binkster posted 03-26-2013 06:09 PM ET (US)
I don't need to keep flares on my 15' Whaler??
rich
jimh posted 03-26-2013 07:14 PM ET (US)
This BoatUS test report of non-pyrotechnic signalling devices discusses the S-O-S lamps and the hockey-puck LED signals:
http://www.boatus.com/foundation/Findings/findings45/page12.asp
jimh posted 03-26-2013 07:18 PM ET (US)
Dave--Does your device look like the ACR device shown here:
http://www.foreandaftmarine.com/ACR1842.htm
Hoosier posted 03-26-2013 10:25 PM ET (US)
Exactly! I don't remember it costing that much, I must have gotten mine as a close out. HH flares are cheaper.
jimh posted 03-27-2013 01:52 PM ET (US)
What probably happened to that ACR signal lamp: an industry trade association of pyrotechnic flare makers offered ACR a huge payment to stop making it.
wbullwin posted 03-27-2013 05:38 PM ET (US)
Thank you all for your posts. It looks like they will allow an alternative to flares but good luck buying one today! So, out to the boat supply store we go. Maybe by the time my new flares expire, they will have one on the market. There are a few small supply stores locally, so I'm going to stop in to see if they have one from years ago.
Hoosier posted 07-16-2013 08:33 AM ET (US)
I have an interesting variation to this subject. What if the SOS light is built into an otherwise approved device, does the approval carry over? I just ungraded my handheld VHF radio to one that is DSC with an internal GPS. It also has an LED light that flashes SOS, does that qualify as a night time visual signaling device?
EJO posted 07-17-2013 02:43 PM ET (US)
Hoosier no as you most likely can't see the red LED from a certain distance (i.e. more that 50 feet)
and Binkster I recommend you do carry a night time signalling device unless you never ever boat between [one hour before] sunset and one hour after sunrise in your boating area. As for daytime, use your compact mirrow. But you can use a [audio Compact Disc]. They reflect the sun well. Even though my Bostono Whaler boat is only 15-feet 5-iches, I have the same safety equipment on board as I do on my 32-footer with the exception of a bell.
K Albus posted 07-17-2013 03:10 PM ET (US)

quote:
does the approval carry over?
Not unless the item itself is specifically marked as complying with the regulation governing nighttime visual distress signals.
Hoosier posted 07-17-2013 05:52 PM ET (US)
I asked the Coast Guard; here's how they responded:
"There are a number of requirements applicable to "Electric Distress Lights for Boats" other than just emitting a bright light, e.g., flotation, waterproofness, salt water resistance, duration, etc. The requirements can be found in 46 CFR 161.013 (see attached). Compliant lights must be marked as specified in section 161.013-13(b). Unfortunately, at present, we aren't aware of any manufacturers actively producing these lights.
We're very aware of issues with disposal of expired pyrotechnic distress signals. They've been a concern of the National Boating Safety Advisory Council (NBSAC) as far back as 2002, with a formal presentation at the latest meeting (November 9-11, 2012) re-emphasizing the safety and environmental hazards of pyrotechnic distress signals currently available for recreational boaters. Very recently, the Radio Technical Committee for Maritime Services established a new subcommittee (RTCM SC132) to undertake the task of developing a standard for non-pyrotechnic electronic visual distress signals (eVDSD) such as LED and laser devices that have recently become available. This effort has the support of the Coast Guard, NBSAC, and electronic signal manufacturers, as well as interest from Canada and several European countries; and may possibly lead to approval of such devices as an alternative to pyrotechnic types in the future. In the short term, all we can suggest is that boaters let manufacturers (e.g., ACR or Survitec) know there's a potential demand for boaters' distress lights."
jimh posted 07-24-2013 09:20 AM ET (US)
Dave--Thank you for researching this topic with the US Coast Guard. I appreciate your sharing your findings with us.

Hop to:

Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.

Author	Topic: Nighttime Electric Visual Distress Signals
wbullwin	posted 03-25-2013 04:51 PM ET (US) I have researched all over the internet looking for a Coast Guard approved electric distress signal. I have found strobe lights but that is it. Apparently, [ACR] did make one, but everyone says it is discontinued. The Coast Guard regulations say [an approved visual distress signal] has to be clearly marked by the manufacturer that it meets 46 CFR 161.013, states what type of battery, and life of battery. This type lamp has to flash S-O-S automatically. I have sent an email today to Revere Supply (apparently a large safety and survival supplier)asking if they make such an animal but haven't heard bad yet. If these are approved and really work, it seems a shame to go out and but flares that have to be replaced every 42 months and then try to find a place to dispose of them. I have a big pile of them and still looking for a place to get rid of them. Has anyone seen one of these lamps? Own one? Do they work?
Hoosier	posted 03-25-2013 05:20 PM ET (US) I have one. It's basically a standard 6-Volt lantern in a yellow case that flashes SOS. I don't remember where I got it but it does say USCG Approved on it. I used it in passing my last Vessel Safety Check. I also have a newer high tech "Redline" LED light by NEBO that will strobe SOS for 72 hours but it doesn't say USCG Approved. I trust the LED more than the lantern but I have to have the lantern to be "legal."
wbullwin	posted 03-25-2013 05:52 PM ET (US) Thanks for the info. Where it is printed "Coast Guard Approved", does it state the numbers "42CFR161.013"? According to what I read, that is supposed to printed next to "Coast Guard Approved". Is there a manufacture's name on the 6V unit? I'll look at the NEBO too.
wbullwin	posted 03-25-2013 06:20 PM ET (US) I just went onto NEBO's website and looked the redline #5557. What a great light!! It is a shame that it is not CG approved. I sent NEBO an email asking if it was and just not printed on the flashlight. I also suggested that if it was, they could probably sell a ton of them to guys like me that don't want to keep buying flares.
Chap	posted 03-25-2013 08:07 PM ET (US) Hello. The Powerflare floats and says it meets USCG specs regarding SOS.
jimh	posted 03-26-2013 08:09 AM ET (US) USCG Requirements for vessels to carry visual distress signals are in 33 CFR 175.101. An excerpt follows: quote: [Title 33 CFR 175.110] [Code of Federal Regulations (annual edition) - July 1, 2005 Edition] [Title 33 - NAVIGATION AND NAVIGABLE WATERS] [Chapter I - COAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY (CONTINUED)] [Subchapter S - BOATING SAFETY] [Part 175 - EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS] [Subpart C - Visual Distress Signals] [Sec. 175.110 - Visual distress signals required.] [From the U.S. Government Printing Office] 33NAVIGATION AND NAVIGABLE WATERS22005-07-012005-07-01false175.110Sec. 175.110NAVIGATION AND NAVIGABLE WATERSCOAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY (CONTINUED)BOATING SAFETYEQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTSVisual Distress Signals Sec. 175.110 Visual distress signals required. (a) No person may use a boat 16 feet or more in length, or any boat operating as an uninspected passenger vessel subject to the requirements of 46 CFR chapter I, subchapter C, unless visual distress signals selected from the list in Sec. 175.130 or the alternatives in Sec. 175.135, in the number required, are onboard. Devices suitable for day use and devices suitable for night use, or devices suitable for both day and night use, must be carried. (b) Between sunset and sunrise, no person may use a boat less than 16 feet in length unless visual distress signals suitable for night use, selected from the list in Sec. 175.130 or Sec. 175.135, in the number required, are on board. [CGD 76-183, 44 FR 73024, Dec. 17, 1979, as amended by USCG-1999-5040, 67 FR 34760, May 15, 2002] Source: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2005-title33-vol2/html/ CFR-2005-title33-vol2-sec175-110.htm quote: [Title 33 CFR 175.130] [Code of Federal Regulations (annual edition) - July 1, 2005 Edition] [Title 33 - NAVIGATION AND NAVIGABLE WATERS] [Chapter I - COAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY (CONTINUED)] [Subchapter S - BOATING SAFETY] [Part 175 - EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS] [Subpart C - Visual Distress Signals] [Sec. 175.130 - Visual distress signals accepted.] [From the U.S. Government Printing Office] 33NAVIGATION AND NAVIGABLE WATERS22005-07-012005-07-01false175.130Sec. 175.130NAVIGATION AND NAVIGABLE WATERSCOAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY (CONTINUED)BOATING SAFETYEQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTSVisual Distress Signals Sec. 175.130 Visual distress signals accepted. (a) Any of the following signals, when carried in the number required, can be used to meet the requirements of Sec. 175.110: (1) An electric distress light meeting the standards of 46 CFR 161.013. One is [[Page 851]] required to meet the night only requirement. (2) An orange flag meeting the standards of 46 CFR 160.072. One is required to meet the day only requirement. (3) Pyrotechnics meeting the standards noted in Table 175.130. (b) Any combination of signal devices selected from the types noted in paragraphs (a) (1), (2) and (3) of this section, when carried in the number required, may be used to meet both day and night requirements. Examples--the combination of two hand held red flares (160.021), and one parachute red flare (160.024 or 160.036) meets both day and night requirements. Three hand held orange smoke (160.037) with one electric distress light (161.013) meet both day and night requirements. Table 175.130--Pyrotechnic Signal Devices ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Approval number Number under 46 Device description Meets requirement for required CFR ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 160.021 Hand Held Red Flare Day and Night............ 3 Distress Signals \3\. 160.022 Floating Orange Smoke Day Only................. 3 Distress Signals. 160.024 Parachute Red Flare Day and Night \1\........ 3 Distress Signals. 160.036 Hand-Held Rocket- Day and Night............ 3 Propelled Parachute Red Flare Distress Signals. 160.037 Hand-Held Orange Smoke Day Only................. 3 Distress Signals. 160.057 Floating Orange Smoke Day Only................. 3 Distress Signals. 160.066 Distress Signal for Day and Night \2\........ 3 Boats, Red Aerial Pyrotechnic Flare. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ \1\ These signals require use in combination with a suitable launching device approved under 46 CFR 160.028. \2\ These devices may be either meteor or parachute assisted type. Some of these signals may require use in combination with a suitable launching device approved under 46 CFR 160.028. \3\ Must have manufacture date of 1 Oct. 1980 or later. [CGD 81-038-A, 47 FR 24548, June 7, 1982] Source: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2005-title33-vol2/html/ CFR-2005-title33-vol2-sec175-130.htm
jimh	posted 03-26-2013 08:22 AM ET (US) From the above, it appears that carrying an orange flag as a day signal and one approved electric lamp as a night signal is sufficient to meet the requirements. The requirements for the approved electric lamp are set out in 46 CFR 161.013, and are rather elaborate and complicated, thus not quoted here. See http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2012-title46-vol6/pdf/ CFR-2012-title46-vol6-sec161-013-1.pdf and follow-on sections for details. I do not see where the LED puck flare replacement is permitted under USCG regulations. I don't see where its manufacturer says it is approved by USCG. It is one thing to say it "meets specs" and another to be approved.
Binkster	posted 03-26-2013 06:09 PM ET (US) I don't need to keep flares on my 15' Whaler?? rich
jimh	posted 03-26-2013 07:14 PM ET (US) This BoatUS test report of non-pyrotechnic signalling devices discusses the S-O-S lamps and the hockey-puck LED signals: http://www.boatus.com/foundation/Findings/findings45/page12.asp
jimh	posted 03-26-2013 07:18 PM ET (US) Dave--Does your device look like the ACR device shown here: http://www.foreandaftmarine.com/ACR1842.htm
Hoosier	posted 03-26-2013 10:25 PM ET (US) Exactly! I don't remember it costing that much, I must have gotten mine as a close out. HH flares are cheaper.
jimh	posted 03-27-2013 01:52 PM ET (US) What probably happened to that ACR signal lamp: an industry trade association of pyrotechnic flare makers offered ACR a huge payment to stop making it.
wbullwin	posted 03-27-2013 05:38 PM ET (US) Thank you all for your posts. It looks like they will allow an alternative to flares but good luck buying one today! So, out to the boat supply store we go. Maybe by the time my new flares expire, they will have one on the market. There are a few small supply stores locally, so I'm going to stop in to see if they have one from years ago.
Hoosier	posted 07-16-2013 08:33 AM ET (US) I have an interesting variation to this subject. What if the SOS light is built into an otherwise approved device, does the approval carry over? I just ungraded my handheld VHF radio to one that is DSC with an internal GPS. It also has an LED light that flashes SOS, does that qualify as a night time visual signaling device?
EJO	posted 07-17-2013 02:43 PM ET (US) Hoosier no as you most likely can't see the red LED from a certain distance (i.e. more that 50 feet) and Binkster I recommend you do carry a night time signalling device unless you never ever boat between [one hour before] sunset and one hour after sunrise in your boating area. As for daytime, use your compact mirrow. But you can use a [audio Compact Disc]. They reflect the sun well. Even though my Bostono Whaler boat is only 15-feet 5-iches, I have the same safety equipment on board as I do on my 32-footer with the exception of a bell.
K Albus	posted 07-17-2013 03:10 PM ET (US) quote: does the approval carry over? Not unless the item itself is specifically marked as complying with the regulation governing nighttime visual distress signals.
Hoosier	posted 07-17-2013 05:52 PM ET (US) I asked the Coast Guard; here's how they responded: "There are a number of requirements applicable to "Electric Distress Lights for Boats" other than just emitting a bright light, e.g., flotation, waterproofness, salt water resistance, duration, etc. The requirements can be found in 46 CFR 161.013 (see attached). Compliant lights must be marked as specified in section 161.013-13(b). Unfortunately, at present, we aren't aware of any manufacturers actively producing these lights. We're very aware of issues with disposal of expired pyrotechnic distress signals. They've been a concern of the National Boating Safety Advisory Council (NBSAC) as far back as 2002, with a formal presentation at the latest meeting (November 9-11, 2012) re-emphasizing the safety and environmental hazards of pyrotechnic distress signals currently available for recreational boaters. Very recently, the Radio Technical Committee for Maritime Services established a new subcommittee (RTCM SC132) to undertake the task of developing a standard for non-pyrotechnic electronic visual distress signals (eVDSD) such as LED and laser devices that have recently become available. This effort has the support of the Coast Guard, NBSAC, and electronic signal manufacturers, as well as interest from Canada and several European countries; and may possibly lead to approval of such devices as an alternative to pyrotechnic types in the future. In the short term, all we can suggest is that boaters let manufacturers (e.g., ACR or Survitec) know there's a potential demand for boaters' distress lights."
jimh	posted 07-24-2013 09:20 AM ET (US) Dave--Thank you for researching this topic with the US Coast Guard. I appreciate your sharing your findings with us.