posted 06-24-2013 01:43 PM ET (US)        

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I purchased one last summer and have had several problems since. After about 5 minutes of running, it stalled and was very hard to restart. Every few minutes it would stall even if it was running fast, and it would never idle properly. I noticed that it was leaking oil from the recoil starter, so I called the support number where my best experience was getting a very helpful tech. We determined that it had a bad crank seal and they exchanged a new engine to correct my problem. By the time I was up and running, the weather had tuned cold, so I only ran it long enough to test it. Now that spring is here, I got it out and had trouble starting it again. I had to prime the carb to get gas into it, but finally got it going. The first time I needed to let out more string, I bumped the release as per the instructions and it wouldn't feed more string. I have now had almost every part of this thing apart to correct problems. Here is what I have learned both from the techs and from my own experience.

You must remove the gas line from the propane tank after each use or the carb will be damaged. The unit should not be hung on the wall, as it must be stored level to keep oil from leaking. You can only run the motor for short times with the engine not level or it will not be lubricated properly, like when using it for edging because the motor has an oil pump and pickup tube which must be submerged in the crankcase oil to provide oil pressure. The dipstick is not accurate and you will have problems if you add oil up to the full mark and some were shipped with more oil than is needed, so you can't use the entire bottle. The tank strap will be stretched and damaged if care is not taken to get the tank in the right position before clamping it. You sometimes have to prime the carb to get it to start by pushing a small wire or paper clip through a little hole in the bottom of the carb until you hear gas hissing. Most of these problems are not discussed in the manual but make ownership less desirable than I had hoped.

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More less-than-enthusiastic reviews found at

posted 06-24-2013 06:00 PM ET (US)            

In New Mexico, in those days, propane fired vehicles were popular with ranchers and farmers. Many had large propane tanks on the premises to power water heaters, refrigerators and stoves. Electrical power was not universally available. Propane was cheap and they had a lot of it on hand so it was smart to use it in the vehicles.

The engines ran well but lacked torque and got through the propane. Happily the twist of a valve returned them to gasoline operation when the propane tank ran low. I don't recall any carburetor problems but perhaps my fifteen year old mind was occupied with other things.

posted 06-24-2013 10:14 PM ET (US)         

I think it's more "You kids get your propane toys off my lawn". Though TWO anti-LEHR threads within minutes shows someone has a bee in their jibonnet.

It was interesting that a service rep answered the phone, spoke knowledgeably about the product, immediately ID'd what the operator did wrong, fixed the problem.

Good to know.

posted 06-25-2013 07:56 AM ET (US)            

I would like to see more information about propane fuel and how it is inducted into the cylinder of an internal combustion engine. In order for propane to remain a liquid it has to be kept under pressure. At normal atmospheric pressure it vaporizes into a gas. At first glance, it hardly seems like a normal carburetor would work, as the propane would be constantly evaporating to the atmosphere.

The notion of "jihad" usually implies some religious belief. I can assure you, propane is not part of my religion. I do see that there are some fervent believers in the qualities of propane, but you can count me as a skeptic. Propane has been around for a long time, and it has not yet replaced gasoline as a fuel. If all the qualities of propane that have been ascribed to propane by the fervent believers are completely true, it would require a conspiracy to have kept propane from becoming the dominant fuel for internal combustion engines. In this instance, only one quality of propane is being examined: the claim that propane can be stored in the engine fuel system for long periods without any harm.

When reasonable skepticism is expressed about claims made by fervent enthusiasts for a particular product or dogma, this is not normally called a jihad. Invoking the term jihad seems to me to be a manifestation of the religious fervor of the supporters of propane, not the skeptics. It seems like a form of ad hominem argument. Rather than explain further the miraculous qualities of propane, it is simpler to attack the critics. This sort of tactic in a discussion usually indicates one side of the argument has run out of good sound reasoning.

posted 06-25-2013 03:35 PM ET (US)            

I had never even heard of LEHR before Eagles pointed them out a few days ago. I just ASSumed they were an old German engine designer and builder of very fine, semi-hand-crafted motors, like the Germans are known for. If that's true, there's nothing about it in the "our story" that they themselves published on their web site. Their isn't even a wikipedia entry on them. As far as I know, old LEHR is a mid-level American merchant sea captain looking for a way to make something of himself. Or maybe not? There's just no info to say one way or the other.

I just read LEHR's "story" on their own web site. It was a meatless, tome of glitz and polish with no content whatsoever.

How long have they been in business?
Do they design their own engines?
Do they build their own engines?
Do they design or build their own lower unit/gearboxes?

After reading their web site with a critical eye, ( I was too busy last week), I find myself less inclined, not more, to blow hard earned cash on one of their products. And the fact that even the people involved in the anti-LEHR jihad are having trouble finding anything, is telling me that there is not much track record at all as far as these things go. Me? I'll just wait a few years and see how things turn out.

posted 06-25-2013 04:13 PM ET (US)            

With that said, I did a propane conversion to my small Honda generator last year and it has worked perfectly. I use it at anchor for recharging my house batteries (why run a 12 KW diesel to recharge a battery?), and since I have propane as my house-fuel it made sense. These conversions are well documented and work well for their intended use. Google a little.

I'm still considering going "no gasoline on the Trawler", Diesel and Propane are my main fuels for engine and big genset, and house fuel and small genset. If I could run the tender on "not gasoline" I would be willing to take the risk of buying a "dispose-an-engine" for the whopping $1900 it costs.

There's a trawler-centric conversation about this here:

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s6/propane-fueled-outboards-5462.html

With all that said, our friend PDX's nonsense about the iminent replacement of anything with propane has zero credibility. It's simply barking at the moon.

Dave

posted 06-25-2013 04:50 PM ET (US)            

I guess I am puzzled by the way many are going after the technology. It seems intriguing to me, with many possible advantages. There have been good reviews of the Lehr outboard products (I have yet to find a bad one, but am certain others will be able to). The current Lehr incarnation of the propane outboard may have some shortcomings, but they or others may improve upon the concept if the market is there. That remains to be seen. Don't shoot the message just because you don't like the evangelistic manner of the messenger.

I'm not advocating shooting the messenger either:)

Dennis

posted 06-25-2013 04:57 PM ET (US)            

To think that Lehr has its own engineering department staffed by more than two men and a boy is really a stretch and its clear that they have no internal manufacturing capability.

Nothing wrong with Chinese stuff, as long as you don't expect local service. On a simple product like this it's probably not a big deal.

Dave

posted 06-25-2013 07:13 PM ET (US)            

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Nothing wrong with Chinese stuff, as long as you don't expect local service. On a simple product like this it's probably not a big deal.

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Agreed. And for "small ticket" items like leaf blowers and cheap standup scooters* like they used to sell at O'Reilly auto parts, you just toss them when you need a major part. We'll have to wait and see how LEHR handles big expensive outboards when/IF they ever produce one. Maybe by then one of the established/trusted manufacturers will be making them too?

*I ended up getting my standup scooter from a more established, "made in California" manufacturer, with a Japanese engine, that has a parts/dealer/service network. It was more than twice as expensive, but I like the peace of mind. 10 years on, and still running great. Boating content: it folds up and and is easy to stow in a boat, and is a great way to get around the marina and local environs.

posted 06-25-2013 10:38 PM ET (US)         

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WhalerAce - Have you guys ever been to the San Antonio Riverwalk? All of the tour boats there have Mercury outboards converted to run on propane. And these guys run those engines ALL DAY. So I would think that the technology can and will be improved. I am just going to wait until about version 3.0

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How cool is that. Apparently a number of kits out there to convert gasoline engines to propane. I wonder if the converted Mercury outboards were two or four cycle versions?

posted 06-26-2013 01:11 PM ET (US)            

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Apparently a number of kits out there to convert gasoline engines to propane. I wonder if the converted Mercury outboards were two or four cycle versions?

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posted 06-26-2013 02:11 PM ET (US)            

When I see the jackboots using propane to power their triple and quad, high-horsepower outboard pursuit boats, that will make a statement to me that maybe the idea is only a few years from readiness for day-to-day consumer use.

posted 06-26-2013 03:45 PM ET (US)            

Should be easy to Google for the suppliers then:

Try:

"propane conversion mercury outboard"

"propane conversion outboard engine"

"propane conversion boat engine"

In every case there is a total of zero companies advertising products to convert existing outboards to propane. None, Nada, Zlich.

Dave

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posted 06-26-2013 06:42 PM ET (US)            

The propane conversion kits were never intended to improve engine operation and installers always left the gasoline option in place. The sole purpose was to allow people with access to large propane supplies to save money. In my experience that was always farmers and ranchers.

posted 06-26-2013 07:46 PM ET (US)            

By the way, I was just at my local chandlery (Fisheries Supply), and saw all 3 Lehr motors on display. They have offered them since at least last fall. Next time I'm in I'll ask how sales have been and what reports they have gotten.

Yes, I did look on the back side to make sure they weren't cardboard cutouts...