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Author Topic:   Insure Over Horsepowered 19' Outrage

mkelly posted 07-24-2013 12:22 PM ET (US)
I'm looking to put a 200 HP on my 1994 19' Outrage II....Boat US quoted to insure it but I recently had a discussion with a friend who talked to me about "extended liability". In other words yes, I would have a policy but possibly open to legal action should the over rated horsepower was installed by me. Does anyone have an opinion or preferably is anyone in the insurance business that could chime in?
L H G posted 07-24-2013 02:49 PM ET (US)
Seattle based SAFECO will insure it for you, although there will be a surcharge for the extra HP.
Since you want more power than 150, why not consider either the Mercury 150 ProXS or Evinrude 150 HO. Both are about 170 HP but you waon't be HP surcharged. That is why they make them.
I think a 3.0 liter Opti 200 or a 3.3 liter Evinrude 200HO V-6 is a bit large for that boat. As for the 2.5 liter 200, there is probably little difference between it and the 150 HO.
whalerdude posted 07-25-2013 10:55 PM ET (US)
I have a Yamaha 150 4 stroke on my Outrage 19 and there is plenty of power and excellent fuel economy. It will do 47-49 mph top speed. It planes very easily. I like to go fast and I feel no need for any more power on this hull.
Russ 13 posted 07-28-2013 12:54 AM ET (US)
Ok here goes the moral compass......spinning wildly.
..
Having worked in the insurance industry.
I would say..
Change the decals on the cowling to read 150.
Unless you are in a major accident or have the engine stolen, you will be fine & pay a regular premium...
..
I think most of us pay too much for insurance.
...
The other thought is to go with a nice new Evenrude H.O. 150
Tom Hemphill posted 07-28-2013 12:44 PM ET (US)

quote:
Unless you are in a major accident...

That is the principal reason I have insurance.
Russ 13 posted 07-29-2013 01:00 AM ET (US)
Well IF that's the reason...
I would suggest a SAFE BOATING CLASS!
pcrussell50 posted 07-29-2013 03:58 AM ET (US)
As we have seen in these very pages, not being at fault in an accident is no assurance of not being held liable under our legal system. If you have any assets of value, home, retirement savings, vehicles, good income, you can and will be sued regardless of fault. This is standard practice, not the exception. THAT is why you need insurance, and you'd better not be caught lying or you will find yourself without coverage when you need it most.
-Peter
pete r posted 07-29-2013 06:52 AM ET (US)
Pretty simple ... Insurance companies have seen it all before.
If they see any way to avoid payout, you can bet you will lose !!!
I can't believe you are considering trying on the obvious.
Russ 13 posted 07-29-2013 08:37 AM ET (US)
I think the last two posts say it best.
Unfortunately in todays world If you have something of value, someone will try to take it from you.
In our present culture of "I'll sue to get mine", instead of working for it, insurance is a necessary evil.
The Evenrude H.O. 150 would be a good match for that boat.
whalerdude posted 07-31-2013 12:10 AM ET (US)
You will really appreciate having a quality insurance company if you incur a loss that you could not possibly imagine ever happening.
Yes I am biased because I work for one of the quality insurers !
But one day about 20 years ago I received a call that there was a fire at my home. My boat caught fire because someone lit a bag of leaves on fire that was next to my fence. The fence caught fire and the whole side of my 19 Guardian burned. I was really upset.
I brought the boat to twin cities marine and they repaired it to just like new condition. My company paid the bill minus my deductible with no haggling.
I have lots more stories of boat insurance claims where my customers had a loss and ended up being very happy when their claim service was completed.
martyn1075 posted 07-31-2013 03:20 AM ET (US)
I have to agree with some here. Insurance is great to have but if there is an out there is a good chance they will find it. Why pay out so much for that to be on your mind. No you want to enjoy your boat and your time out there and if anything happens which hopefully it won't you have a company that will back you without hesitation. Also it may effect resell for the same reason you are asking. There are some great options in the 150 hp range. Mercury has that new 150 Four stroke. Yamaha, Evinrude etc all have good proven motors.
Martyn
whalerdude posted 07-31-2013 09:48 PM ET (US)
You will really appreciate having a quality insurance company if you incur a loss that you could not possibly imagine ever happening.
Yes I am biased because I work for one of the quality insurers !
But one day about 20 years ago I received a call that there was a fire at my home. My boat caught fire because someone lit a bag of leaves on fire that was next to my fence. The fence caught fire and the whole side of my 19 Guardian burned. I was really upset.
I brought the boat to twin cities marine and they repaired it to just like new condition. My company paid the bill minus my deductible with no haggling.
I have lots more stories of boat insurance claims where my customers had a loss and ended up being very happy when their claim service was completed.
Marsh posted 08-02-2013 10:08 PM ET (US)
Travelers has insured my 170 Montauk for several years. It has a 115 hp engine, whereas the rating calls for a max of 90. Prior to Travelers, it was insured by State Farm, and before that, Liberty Mutual. None of these companies were the least bit put off by my disclosure of the 115 engine. They all wanted to know th boat's top speed, and when I replied 48 mph, they all said no problem. The inference I drew was that The "over powering" of a boat is less of a consideration than it's capacity for speed.
I would suggest to the original poster that he shop around for a different insuror.
pcrussell50 posted 08-03-2013 05:48 AM ET (US)
Yep, it seems to be speed as the biggie. And casual informal polling of insurers tells me that the magic number when it comes to speed is 50mph. Unless it is a bass boat. For some reason bass boats are "allowed" to be considerably faster than 50mph. I have no idea why bass boats get a pass and others don't.
-Peter
swist posted 08-03-2013 08:35 AM ET (US)
My experience is the same as Marsh with a couple different companies. They just want top speed.
whalerdude posted 08-04-2013 09:55 AM ET (US)
We ask for maximum hull HP rating on the application
contender posted 08-04-2013 10:21 AM ET (US)
confuse your state licensing and register it as a race boat.
pcrussell50 posted 08-04-2013 06:05 PM ET (US)

quote:
We ask for maximum hull HP rating on the application
Interesting. The guy I talked to live on the phone from Progressive was mostly interested in the top speed of one of the hulls I was trying to insure. I think his question stemmed from the fact that the brand did not show up in his database. Therefore he did not know the max power rating for the hull... nor do I. Although I'm pretty sure the blown motor, a 2.0L 150hp Mercury that came with it is the original motor. When he asked if it could go over 50 mph, I didn't know, because I've never driven it with that motor. I have one of my spare 115hp v4 crossflows on it until I rebuild the Mercury or buy Larry's.
Again: he was the one who told me that there is special dispensation for boats faster than 50 mph as long as they are bass boats. And again: I don't know what is so special about bass boats that they get a pass on the 50 mph thing.
-Peter
onlyawhaler posted 08-05-2013 12:00 PM ET (US)
Just to see what my insurance would say and because of interest in this thread, I called my boat insurance (Progresive)company this morning and asked about an engine upgrade.
I have a 1999 Outrage 20 with a max HP rating of 225 which I have on the transom now.
I thought of my dream overpower engine which would be an E-tec 300 which is the same weight as my Yamaha OX66 225.
That would be a fun upgrade and provide some real need push up here at altitude.
When I called I mentioned I wanted to buy a new engine, place it on the same boat, a 300 hp Evinrude specifically and insure it for an additional $16,000
No problem, she wanted the vin of the engine for their records and it would be a done deal, but the point is their system does not show overpower limits and they would not know.
Therein lies the problem, they would insure it for now, but in the case of major liability, I really they would void it because of overpowering and walk from the claim.
Sterling
Onlyawhaler
cooper1958nc posted 08-05-2013 12:03 PM ET (US)
Insurance companies want people to think they can "walk away" from a claim because of almost any defect in underwriting. This is not the case. In most states, the defect (i.e. power over some placard) must be related to the claim. If the overpowering caused the mishap, they may have grounds to deny the claim. Otherwise, they cannot escape the contract of insurance. Aggrieved insureds can file "first party" claims against insurance companies who deny claims, and the winner usually gets attorney fees and costs. They are also viewed favorably by juries who feel insurance companies take advantage of their insureds.
onlyawhaler posted 08-05-2013 06:14 PM ET (US)
Its interesting to me and never understood why stern drive boats don't have a max hp rating.
I look at a 22ft Outrage with a 300hp max rating and a 22ft stern drive anything with a Mercury 496HO, close to 400hp and no plate on the boat stating a max on anything.
Seems like outboard driven boats get penalized.
Onlyawhaler
Sterling
Whalerdog posted 08-05-2013 08:32 PM ET (US)
Wonder if I put a 150 on my 115 rated 07 Montalk what would happen?
onlyawhaler posted 08-05-2013 10:47 PM ET (US)
You would have a blazing fast Montalk
That would be an inspiring ride
Sterling
Onlyawhaler
EJO posted 08-06-2013 12:43 PM ET (US)
Hey you put a larger than "standard" HP on a Whaler and call it a Bass boat, after all it is a fishing boat for many, but make sure you only fish for small or large mouth bass because as said the insurance company will find a reason not to settle for what you think is fair.
Can you imagine another boat running into you while you were Perch fishing.
If you want to go fast buy a faster boat don't over power a boat.
Whalerdog posted 08-06-2013 07:39 PM ET (US)
New Montauk is now rated for 150 but the plate on my boat would still be 115 hp and x lb. for motor 410 I think.
Bayou Whaler posted 08-13-2013 09:22 PM ET (US)
Got qoutes in the last week from Liberty Mutual (have all my other insurance and last boat insurance with them and have had NO problems with claims), Progressive, and GEICO. None asked engine size, only boat model and a stated value. This was for liability, collision and comp.
pcrussell50 posted 08-15-2013 01:40 PM ET (US)
Maybe Whalers are "known quantities" when it comes to performance potential? IOW, who cares if you put 15% more power on a slow boat... It will still be a slow boat? By slow I mean 50'ish tops like your typical overpowered Whaler, not 60, 70, 80, 90, or more like actual fast boats.
-Peter

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Author	Topic: Insure Over Horsepowered 19' Outrage
mkelly	posted 07-24-2013 12:22 PM ET (US) I'm looking to put a 200 HP on my 1994 19' Outrage II....Boat US quoted to insure it but I recently had a discussion with a friend who talked to me about "extended liability". In other words yes, I would have a policy but possibly open to legal action should the over rated horsepower was installed by me. Does anyone have an opinion or preferably is anyone in the insurance business that could chime in?
L H G	posted 07-24-2013 02:49 PM ET (US) Seattle based SAFECO will insure it for you, although there will be a surcharge for the extra HP. Since you want more power than 150, why not consider either the Mercury 150 ProXS or Evinrude 150 HO. Both are about 170 HP but you waon't be HP surcharged. That is why they make them. I think a 3.0 liter Opti 200 or a 3.3 liter Evinrude 200HO V-6 is a bit large for that boat. As for the 2.5 liter 200, there is probably little difference between it and the 150 HO.
whalerdude	posted 07-25-2013 10:55 PM ET (US) I have a Yamaha 150 4 stroke on my Outrage 19 and there is plenty of power and excellent fuel economy. It will do 47-49 mph top speed. It planes very easily. I like to go fast and I feel no need for any more power on this hull.
Russ 13	posted 07-28-2013 12:54 AM ET (US) Ok here goes the moral compass......spinning wildly. .. Having worked in the insurance industry. I would say.. Change the decals on the cowling to read 150. Unless you are in a major accident or have the engine stolen, you will be fine & pay a regular premium... .. I think most of us pay too much for insurance. ... The other thought is to go with a nice new Evenrude H.O. 150
Tom Hemphill	posted 07-28-2013 12:44 PM ET (US) quote: Unless you are in a major accident... That is the principal reason I have insurance.
Russ 13	posted 07-29-2013 01:00 AM ET (US) Well IF that's the reason... I would suggest a SAFE BOATING CLASS!
pcrussell50	posted 07-29-2013 03:58 AM ET (US) As we have seen in these very pages, not being at fault in an accident is no assurance of not being held liable under our legal system. If you have any assets of value, home, retirement savings, vehicles, good income, you can and will be sued regardless of fault. This is standard practice, not the exception. THAT is why you need insurance, and you'd better not be caught lying or you will find yourself without coverage when you need it most. -Peter
pete r	posted 07-29-2013 06:52 AM ET (US) Pretty simple ... Insurance companies have seen it all before. If they see any way to avoid payout, you can bet you will lose !!! I can't believe you are considering trying on the obvious.
Russ 13	posted 07-29-2013 08:37 AM ET (US) I think the last two posts say it best. Unfortunately in todays world If you have something of value, someone will try to take it from you. In our present culture of "I'll sue to get mine", instead of working for it, insurance is a necessary evil. The Evenrude H.O. 150 would be a good match for that boat.
whalerdude	posted 07-31-2013 12:10 AM ET (US) You will really appreciate having a quality insurance company if you incur a loss that you could not possibly imagine ever happening. Yes I am biased because I work for one of the quality insurers ! But one day about 20 years ago I received a call that there was a fire at my home. My boat caught fire because someone lit a bag of leaves on fire that was next to my fence. The fence caught fire and the whole side of my 19 Guardian burned. I was really upset. I brought the boat to twin cities marine and they repaired it to just like new condition. My company paid the bill minus my deductible with no haggling. I have lots more stories of boat insurance claims where my customers had a loss and ended up being very happy when their claim service was completed.
martyn1075	posted 07-31-2013 03:20 AM ET (US) I have to agree with some here. Insurance is great to have but if there is an out there is a good chance they will find it. Why pay out so much for that to be on your mind. No you want to enjoy your boat and your time out there and if anything happens which hopefully it won't you have a company that will back you without hesitation. Also it may effect resell for the same reason you are asking. There are some great options in the 150 hp range. Mercury has that new 150 Four stroke. Yamaha, Evinrude etc all have good proven motors. Martyn
whalerdude	posted 07-31-2013 09:48 PM ET (US) You will really appreciate having a quality insurance company if you incur a loss that you could not possibly imagine ever happening. Yes I am biased because I work for one of the quality insurers ! But one day about 20 years ago I received a call that there was a fire at my home. My boat caught fire because someone lit a bag of leaves on fire that was next to my fence. The fence caught fire and the whole side of my 19 Guardian burned. I was really upset. I brought the boat to twin cities marine and they repaired it to just like new condition. My company paid the bill minus my deductible with no haggling. I have lots more stories of boat insurance claims where my customers had a loss and ended up being very happy when their claim service was completed.
Marsh	posted 08-02-2013 10:08 PM ET (US) Travelers has insured my 170 Montauk for several years. It has a 115 hp engine, whereas the rating calls for a max of 90. Prior to Travelers, it was insured by State Farm, and before that, Liberty Mutual. None of these companies were the least bit put off by my disclosure of the 115 engine. They all wanted to know th boat's top speed, and when I replied 48 mph, they all said no problem. The inference I drew was that The "over powering" of a boat is less of a consideration than it's capacity for speed. I would suggest to the original poster that he shop around for a different insuror.
pcrussell50	posted 08-03-2013 05:48 AM ET (US) Yep, it seems to be speed as the biggie. And casual informal polling of insurers tells me that the magic number when it comes to speed is 50mph. Unless it is a bass boat. For some reason bass boats are "allowed" to be considerably faster than 50mph. I have no idea why bass boats get a pass and others don't. -Peter
swist	posted 08-03-2013 08:35 AM ET (US) My experience is the same as Marsh with a couple different companies. They just want top speed.
whalerdude	posted 08-04-2013 09:55 AM ET (US) We ask for maximum hull HP rating on the application
contender	posted 08-04-2013 10:21 AM ET (US) confuse your state licensing and register it as a race boat.
pcrussell50	posted 08-04-2013 06:05 PM ET (US) quote: We ask for maximum hull HP rating on the application Interesting. The guy I talked to live on the phone from Progressive was mostly interested in the top speed of one of the hulls I was trying to insure. I think his question stemmed from the fact that the brand did not show up in his database. Therefore he did not know the max power rating for the hull... nor do I. Although I'm pretty sure the blown motor, a 2.0L 150hp Mercury that came with it is the original motor. When he asked if it could go over 50 mph, I didn't know, because I've never driven it with that motor. I have one of my spare 115hp v4 crossflows on it until I rebuild the Mercury or buy Larry's. Again: he was the one who told me that there is special dispensation for boats faster than 50 mph as long as they are bass boats. And again: I don't know what is so special about bass boats that they get a pass on the 50 mph thing. -Peter
onlyawhaler	posted 08-05-2013 12:00 PM ET (US) Just to see what my insurance would say and because of interest in this thread, I called my boat insurance (Progresive)company this morning and asked about an engine upgrade. I have a 1999 Outrage 20 with a max HP rating of 225 which I have on the transom now. I thought of my dream overpower engine which would be an E-tec 300 which is the same weight as my Yamaha OX66 225. That would be a fun upgrade and provide some real need push up here at altitude. When I called I mentioned I wanted to buy a new engine, place it on the same boat, a 300 hp Evinrude specifically and insure it for an additional $16,000 No problem, she wanted the vin of the engine for their records and it would be a done deal, but the point is their system does not show overpower limits and they would not know. Therein lies the problem, they would insure it for now, but in the case of major liability, I really they would void it because of overpowering and walk from the claim. Sterling Onlyawhaler
cooper1958nc	posted 08-05-2013 12:03 PM ET (US) Insurance companies want people to think they can "walk away" from a claim because of almost any defect in underwriting. This is not the case. In most states, the defect (i.e. power over some placard) must be related to the claim. If the overpowering caused the mishap, they may have grounds to deny the claim. Otherwise, they cannot escape the contract of insurance. Aggrieved insureds can file "first party" claims against insurance companies who deny claims, and the winner usually gets attorney fees and costs. They are also viewed favorably by juries who feel insurance companies take advantage of their insureds.
onlyawhaler	posted 08-05-2013 06:14 PM ET (US) Its interesting to me and never understood why stern drive boats don't have a max hp rating. I look at a 22ft Outrage with a 300hp max rating and a 22ft stern drive anything with a Mercury 496HO, close to 400hp and no plate on the boat stating a max on anything. Seems like outboard driven boats get penalized. Onlyawhaler Sterling
Whalerdog	posted 08-05-2013 08:32 PM ET (US) Wonder if I put a 150 on my 115 rated 07 Montalk what would happen?
onlyawhaler	posted 08-05-2013 10:47 PM ET (US) You would have a blazing fast Montalk That would be an inspiring ride Sterling Onlyawhaler
EJO	posted 08-06-2013 12:43 PM ET (US) Hey you put a larger than "standard" HP on a Whaler and call it a Bass boat, after all it is a fishing boat for many, but make sure you only fish for small or large mouth bass because as said the insurance company will find a reason not to settle for what you think is fair. Can you imagine another boat running into you while you were Perch fishing. If you want to go fast buy a faster boat don't over power a boat.
Whalerdog	posted 08-06-2013 07:39 PM ET (US) New Montauk is now rated for 150 but the plate on my boat would still be 115 hp and x lb. for motor 410 I think.
Bayou Whaler	posted 08-13-2013 09:22 PM ET (US) Got qoutes in the last week from Liberty Mutual (have all my other insurance and last boat insurance with them and have had NO problems with claims), Progressive, and GEICO. None asked engine size, only boat model and a stated value. This was for liability, collision and comp.
pcrussell50	posted 08-15-2013 01:40 PM ET (US) Maybe Whalers are "known quantities" when it comes to performance potential? IOW, who cares if you put 15% more power on a slow boat... It will still be a slow boat? By slow I mean 50'ish tops like your typical overpowered Whaler, not 60, 70, 80, 90, or more like actual fast boats. -Peter