posted 09-26-2013 02:16 PM ET (US)        

-Limited console space for mounting electronics
-Shallow freeboard
-Very very limited storage
-Lack of swim platform/ladder
-Limited seating
-Motorwell fills with water when you step in it
-Wood maintenance
-No power or tilt steering
-No freshwater shower
-No baitwells
-No fishboxes
-No cupholders, no cupholders, no cupholders

So what's so great about these classic models? What do they offer that the current line-up does not currently offer? Please don't get into that choice of engine crap...it's been discussed.

posted 09-26-2013 03:22 PM ET (US)            

More specifically, they are a high design comprised of quality materials and components. A select few custom constructions have both of those traits, while a select few mass produced items have one of those traits. Most things in the world today have neither.

posted 09-26-2013 04:52 PM ET (US)            

Umm 50K is cheap older yes not as modern and flashy but high quality that can do just as much as the new one. All the classics are the same. An 18 Outrage can be had for 8-24K maybe more but a new one (190) is 52K to start add a few options and you are at 67K plus tax. The math doesn't add up. The new ones are way too much. Im quite surprised they sell as many as they do.

posted 09-26-2013 10:18 PM ET (US)            

Do post classics ride better? I don't like to admit ride is an issue but it is especially for passengers. Folks come on board for a ride, pop a brewski or a plastic glass of vino and want to have a nice ride - curl up on the bow cushion, hang out, comfortably for a 17 foot boat but every once in a while I gotta put the smack down on them, big wake or goofy wave on Lake Mich if not smooth. I don't give a crap - I stand up and hang on or go to my latest option; I sit on a Taylor Made square fender, super cool. It boosts me up higher so I can see over that great big console and rides like an air seat. Very cool. Blows away foam.

posted 09-27-2013 07:34 AM ET (US)            

High quality
Resale value(nearly every classic sells well)
Safety
Reliability
Argualby lowest cost of ownership in the outboard industry.

I've bought several used Boston Whalers. Kept them for 6-8 years, then sell them for 20% less than purchase price.

$25,000 purchase
$20,000 re-sale
$5,000 for 6 years of use.

That's LESS than $1,000 a year(capital cost not operating costs) for a fabulous, good looking, super safe, reliable boat.

posted 09-27-2013 09:41 AM ET (US)            

I also own one classic Whaler, a Sport 13. I bought it because it's a beautiful little boat with just enough wood to distinguish it from a more modern boat. I also bought it because it was a "good" buy and because I had a use for a small boat.

I think old cars are also worth saving but I prefer the pre-fifties cars for the most part. Unlike older boats these old cars are almost never daily drivers. Thank goodness for that because they are polluters and generally unsafe compared to new cars.

I think it's easy to forget that ever classic Whaler on the water there is one less hunk of fiberglass smashed up in a landfill. It is also one less fiberglass boat manufactured and thus a lot of petroleum product unused. As insignificant as this is it at least chips away at waste and pollution in our world.

Classic Whalers are GREEN, babe!

Butch

posted 09-27-2013 04:05 PM ET (US)         

True, the newer boats are technologically ahead of the classics and give a greater nod to creature comforts and conveniences. They are not however, set apart by design, craftsmanship and quality compared to other high end boats. This is not to say they are not good boats, they are very good.

posted 09-28-2013 07:32 AM ET (US)            

"Lots of folks on this site bash the post-classic whalers and the Boston Whaler company"

As I pointed out in another post today, the forum is described by the site owner as:

"Classic Boston Whalers, an encyclopedia of older Boston Whaler boats; updated daily!"

Birds of a feather flock together. The members here, for the most part, appreciate the pre-Brunswick classics, and are not enthused with "Boston Whalers" built outside of New England, such as those built by Corporate America conglomerate and offered with an engine made by the same conglomerate, packaged without any choice for the buyer. "Real Whalers" are lightweight skiffs designed by Ray Hunt. The 13 and 17 are the recognized "absolute classics". The Bannana outrage, and the other Outrages thru 22 feet are "true classics", and the 25 and 27 are on the fringe.

Once you move to Euro Transoms, Pre-Packaged power, and decisions made by Corporate America.... well... I'm sure there's a website for those someplace.

Dave

posted 09-28-2013 11:44 AM ET (US)            

Every once and awhile we see a new Whaler that has similar appeal to the classic. I would say the 190 Outrage and the new 210 Montauk to be very nice looking boats that strike me as post modern classic. The company still is very capable of delivering.

posted 09-28-2013 11:53 AM ET (US)            

Martyn

posted 09-28-2013 12:17 PM ET (US)            

--you could order the hull with a heavier lay-up

--you could choose the console from at least two sizes, regular or super console

--you could select the gunwale cap to be wood or fiberglass

--you could select the seating at the helm to be a reversible pilot seat, swivel bucket seats, or leaning post; on some larger models you could get a seating station with storage, a sink, and drawers.

--you could add a Whaler Drive

posted 09-28-2013 12:22 PM ET (US)            

quote:

---

-No cupholders, no cupholders, no cupholders

---

posted 09-28-2013 05:35 PM ET (US)            

I intially bought a '78 13 super-sport new and used it quite a bit fishing. In this area, one can bet on an late afternoon storm rolling in with pretty stiff winds. Didn't bother me - maybe I was just ignorant - but some of my friends were uncomfortable. Then I noticed a dealer's ad regarding a new Montauk. Took a look at it - nice, but there was a new 17 Outrage sitting next to it. Bought the Outrage - and love it.

Some are concerned about weight - but there are pros and cons here. A lighter boat will tow a bit easier, require less power to operate, will accelerate faster and achieve a faster speed with the same power. But a heavier boat is more stable, gives a softer ride and takes rough water better - all because of the weight. Further, the added weight can - can - give added strength.

The computer designed hulls incorporate detailed analyses of the hull design and strength of the materials - and that is good. Other "newer" features like the tank sump drain are of benefit.

posted 09-29-2013 07:35 PM ET (US)            

I have had some comments on the lack of cup holders(lol)and I tell them to buy me the expensive suction cup style because I will not be drilling any holes.

When I look at the hardware on my boat and compare it to boats that are double the size of mine I am amazed. My bow rail is bigger(and welded), my cleats are bigger and the quality is top notch. I love the wood and spent many hours refinishing it. just my two cents

posted 09-29-2013 08:01 PM ET (US)            

The vast majority of the classics can still be purchased today via the Brunswick Commercial division and customized as they wish. Very, very few recreational buyers actually do this. How many here have done it?

Whaler has evolved to meet the needs of buyers not what classic whaler enthusiast want.

You can pretend classic designs will sell better than the new whalers but you are living in a nostalgics fantasy.

posted 09-30-2013 07:04 AM ET (US)            

quote:

---

The vast majority of the classics can still be purchased today via the Brunswick Commercial division and customized as they wish. Very, very few recreational buyers actually do this. How many here have done it?

---

And almost each of those models in recreational form can be purchased used for a fraction of the new price Whaler would charge and there isn't much different between the used and the new. And therein lies the problem for Whaler, the classic Whaler hulls the pre-Brunswick era Whaler has made are so durable that they have mostly saturated the market for the classic hulls. Regarding classic hulls, Brunswick Whaler would be competing with the Ghost of Whaler Past.

Brunswick Whaler keep changing models every few years (like the automobile companies) so they don't end up with their new boats competiting with slightly used models which are 1/2 price and perfectly good.

posted 09-30-2013 08:03 AM ET (US)            

None, because:

1: We don't need to, as older boats are still in good condition due to their superior original build quality and many have been properly maintained. They are available for reasonable prices and are as good a boat now as they were when new.

and (more importantly):

2: If you ever attempt to specify and purchase a boat from the Commercial Division, you'll find out quickly that the mission of the Commercial Division is to rip off the Government. Under the FAR's, every governmental agency must get "best pricing" from vendors. Solution? Make up a special part number, triple the price, and offer it to the Government at "best price for *that* model". I suggest you specify and price out a Commercial Division outrage hull set up just for basic use. You'll be into it for over $100K. Commercial Division boats are specifically configured to cost as much as possible for sale to entities that are spending DHS grant money (local pubnlic service users) and the Navy (who could care less, and who uses Whalers as bombing targets).

Dave

.

posted 09-30-2013 08:16 AM ET (US)            

Now those are the real issues, you hit the nail right on the head.

1.) New boat prices are crazy (every brand) and the used hulls are very durable/well built that will last a long time for a fraction of the price.

2.) Due to success of Boston Whaler, there are a lot of used boats in the market.

I would contend that the older ones are not better built than one you can buy from the Commercial Division today but never the less are still overbuilt and extremely durable.

The reason that I think so many of us are obsessed with older whalers is

A.) Economically they make the most sense in the small boat market.

B.) Durable and rugged.

C.) Affordable and easy to find.

posted 09-30-2013 08:19 AM ET (US)            

Food quality has evolved to meet the needs of buyers tooL: Corporate high volume America brought you McDonalds as a result and the masses of the unwashed gentry buy it in bulk.

But it also speaks to the quality of the ethos of the company as well: In a corporate boardroom a decision was made to no longer be a niche builder of extremely high quality boats designed to a single vision, but rather to compete with 100 other "me too" makers of generic clorox-bottle-boats. You want a Rolex or a Timex on your wrist? I'll stick to my 40 year old Rolex and my 25 year old 'Tauk, thanks for asking.

Ethos: Boston Whalers designed near Boston by Ray Hunt and fitted with Mills Canvas as original stuff? Cool...

Ethos: Bost Whalers built in Florida by a Bowling Ball manufacturer and designed by focus groups wondering if Euro-Transoms are "in" this year? No thanks.

Compare BW to Porsche: They have never let the classic lines of a 911 leave their lineup. Other b0dy shapes have come and gone (914, 924, 928, etc.,) but the 911 shape has always stayed. The cars have gone from air cooled to water cooled, and from simple sports cars to demonstrations of high technology, but they are still immediately recognizable as a 911... even though the model "911" has not been with us since 1990. To the eye they are immediately recognizable, and the ethos of the manufactufrer has been true to the vision. Brunswick has no vision other than their bottom line. I will not contribute to that vision.

So:

Those satisfied with clorox-bottle-boats are happy.

Classic Whaler enthusiasts are not.

This is a "Classic Whaler" forum: Don't expect much "Brunswick Clorox Bottle with a Whaler decal slapped on the side, Packaged with a Brunswick engine with a Mercury sticker slapped on the side" love.

Dave

.

Dave

posted 09-30-2013 10:28 AM ET (US)            

Exactly. The old Whaler organization was (and the current one is) a victim of their own success in making very durable boats.

posted 09-30-2013 01:21 PM ET (US)            

Visually the boat must have identity and that my friends is missing in most models and has been for some time. Not the old Whalers, you know and everyone else knows its a Whaler! and it feels nice owing one that is so highly recognizable that is retains its value to some degree but more importantly the interest for the boat is always high that makes it a "classic!" A design that never is dated.

190 210 are there any other models that have any resemblance to the classics?

If you like a new Boston Whaler offering now you have to afford it. For most thats a problem and I don't blame them one bit. 50-60K for a 210 Montauk! Oh I would like one and so many of you Im sure would like one as well, but what's holding us back??

Martyn

posted 06-17-2014 09:43 PM ET (US)            

My first acquaintance with a Whaler was on a little 11 Sport over 30 years ago. I was never really a boater before that, just went for rides with friends. There were 3 of us on it and I was amazed at what that boat could do. Fell in love with the little boat and bought its larger brother the 13 Sport brand new. This was 1982. Great boat.

Had it 12 years, to 1994, and by then I figured I wanted something that I could stand up in while conning it. It would be more comfortable, but I still needed a boat that would fit in my garage, and that I could tow with a minivan. The 17 Montauk was the ticket. Love the boat, It does everything I could want in a boat.

I also ordered it custom by the dealer through the commercial division. Special paint on the hull and deck, different steering wheel, heavier layup with thicker rub rail on the gunwales. I also got the engine that I wanted, not a black one, but a white Johnson 90 that matched the boat. Back then you could order pretty much any engine you wanted.

Basically I got everything that I wanted, and the boat can do everything that I want. It can go offshore in the Atlantic, Or smoothly down the intracoastal, or I can tow it down to the Florida Keys. I also got the stern seat. I have had 7 people in the boat comfortably. It has been a great experience for the last 20 years.

I have looked at other boats, gone to some of the biggest boat shows. I do like the newer Montauk 190 for example. But at first it was underpowered, and later with good power, I just couldn't see the need for spending all of that money. I realized that I still had the perfect boat, that could do everything I want, and it is paid for and still looks and performs great! And the 190 would not fit in my garage, and I would need something bigger to tow it. Case closed.

It is just hard to beat something that is just a great design and fits your needs perfectly..

posted 06-18-2014 06:36 PM ET (US)         

Maintaining the essential "look" of a Porsche was first and foremost in their design criteria. Yes, they've had various and numerous and other models, but their current success is based on the fact that whether it is a Boxter or a Panamerica, it is instantly recognizable as a Porsche.

posted 06-18-2014 07:02 PM ET (US)            

My definition is different. To me a classic boat or vehicle must be beautiful, have utility, and be useable for the purpose intended.

All the old Boston Whalers I've seen were beautiful, had utility and were usable. In at least one case beauty needed to be rather widely defined. It was a case of form following function. This was a small Whaler with a cabin that was on display at Killinger Marine in Pensacola, Florida.

posted 06-19-2014 12:11 AM ET (US)            

I have had an 87 Montauk, a 77 Revenge 19, and an 89 Revenge 20 WT. I grew up with a 71 13 footer.

If you don't get it, don't get it.

posted 06-19-2014 01:45 PM ET (US)            

Just go buy a minivan, you will be much happier :)

posted 06-22-2014 10:46 AM ET (US)            

quote:

---

I think the 911 analogy is a good one. Male the product unique with easy product recognition.
Maintaining the essential "look" of a Porsche was first and foremost in their design criteria. Yes, they've had various and numerous and other models, but their current success is based on the fact that whether it is a Boxter or a Panamerica, it is instantly recognizable as a Porsche.

---

Not sure how much you know about Porsche or were just agreeing with an example, but for the record, and since you're playing the legacy/heritage card, it's "Panamera", not "Panamerica".

I prefer the classics and carbureted two-strokes myself. But not because of any nostalgia. I'm cold, clinical, and results-driven. Weight, cost and complexity do not automatically mean results. In fact, they are hindrances that must be overcome by even better performance... Which invariably it is unable to deliver.

posted 06-24-2014 10:46 AM ET (US)            

Some exceptions exist... some of the die-cast fittings from PERKO corroded pretty badly in salt water environments, but most of the stainless on my 1970 and 1971 boats are flawless to this day 40+ years later. I like the classic 13 and 16 foot hulls the best. They seem virtually indestructible.

Now why isn't there any love for the cup holder Tom? I use the Scotty cup holders that work with a regular rod holder mount. I think I know what you mean about the pleasure boat style of drink holder that isn't appropriate for heavy use... but for us coffee lovers we gotta secure that java!

posted 06-24-2014 01:10 PM ET (US)            

You can do almost anything you want with a classic and use it any way you want. They last forever, and if there is a problem or damage, relatively easy to work on.

Unlike most boats, a Whaler is worth restoring, fixings, etc - the value is there.

posted 06-25-2014 06:15 PM ET (US)            

I couldn't agree more with the cases made for the classic's value in construction, durability and longevity. However what is most profound to me about the classic whalers is how safe they are. Despite the low gunnels, the classics are a tremendously safe boating platform. I can't count how many times my 22' Outrage made up for my lack of boat handling as a novice boater and got me home in less than ideal conditions. It pounded like hell in a choppy head sea, but you couldn't keep up with me in a following or crossing sea. The rival Seacrafts and Grady's of that era, yea they have their own following today, but they rot and will sink right to the bottom, I don't personally understand where the value is in that. I'll even argue the classic whalers to be safer than most boats constructed today! Foam all the way up the gunnels, only a handful of manufacturers currently commit to that level of flotation!

You have to have an understanding and appreciation of its beginnings as a custom boat to really comprehend the value in the classic under your feet. Only the best components, metals and finish of that era were used in the construction, and the luminous shine off my gelcoat 25 years later is a testament to the quality of the boats that came out of the Rockland plant.

posted 06-26-2014 02:10 AM ET (US)            

I have to disagree with the comment about the 25 & 27's being beyond the classic profile.

Our 1983 25' Outrage center console cuddy is still a show stopper. At the ramp, on the water, going down the road on a trailer, people seems to smile and appreciate the design and simple beauty.

The Whaler27 was a true fisherman's dream. Fast, open water wonder machine with large fish boxes and a cuddy to sleep or room to take 12 people out for a picnic.

The Vigilant32 Pilothouse is just an outrage on major steroids. The same classic hull design, with the best ride of any Whaler. Built to out last my life span.