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Author Topic:   Need Help with Bow Stop Placement

jason78 posted 10-22-2013 08:17 PM ET (US)
Hello, looking for a little advice regarding the bow stop on my trailer. I just got a 1997 20 Outrage. I have plenty of boating experience but have never trailered until now. The issue I have is the boat is hard to winch up on the trailer unless the trailer is WAY in the water. When I float the boat on, the roller is above or right at rub rail height. I have to lift up on the bow while cranking to get it all the way in. The other day I found a picture of a 99 20 Outrage on the exact same EZ Loader trailer. It appears they have the roller positioned lower, almost right in front of the bow eye.
Looking to see if I can get some suggestions on whether or not I need to move the roller down. I am not sure what the "proper" placement of the bow stop should be. Just trying to figure out if mine is correct or the one in the picture is better placement. Thanks!

Marko888 posted 10-22-2013 08:33 PM ET (US)
You want to have the bow-stop roller above the bow eye, as in your photo. In a panic stop situation, the boat will not be able to slide up and over the bow stop, as the cable will prevent this by being below the bow eye.
Second item needed is a forward keel roller, positioned in the area below the winch on a forward cross member or similar. This will keep the bow from dropping when stern starts to float, and makes winching easier.
Look for LHG's details on the trailer setup in the reference section. I set mine up this way this year and launch & load is now almost effortless.
andygere posted 10-22-2013 10:06 PM ET (US)
In addition to the other good suggestions already made, lubricate your bunk carpet with silicone spray. It will winch up much more easily.
jimh posted 10-22-2013 10:47 PM ET (US)
Advice about the position of a bow stop is given in the REFERENCE article on trailer set-up, under the subheading "Winch Stand."
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/trailering/trailer.html
If the lead of the trailer winch strap onto the winch from the bow eye is downward, it will be much harder to winch the boat onto the trailer than if the lead of the winch strap is level or slightly upward. I have my winch stand adjusted so the lead onto the winch is upward from the boat's bow eye. This helps to bring the boat onto the trailer more easily. Once the boat is completely on the trailer, the bow eye is positioned between the dual bow stop rollers on my winch stand. I then fit another strap to the bow eye, passing it downward and around the center tube of the trailer frame, creating a firm downward pull. This prevents the boat from bouncing up and down on the trailer, which it will do without this added strap. The second strap adds a back up in case the main winch strap should become loose or part. And, of course, there is the safety chain.
Having a keel roller near the winch stand is very important. Typically when loading the boat onto the trailer the stern will be buoyed up by its deeper than normal immersion in the water. This will create a force that tends to drive the bow of the bow downward. To prevent the bow from being forced downward by the stern buoyancy, you need a roller under the keel near the bow to resist that downward force. And you do not want the winch strap angled down, as that will just add more downward force and create more difficulty in getting the boat to come forward onto the trailer.
The six articles in the Reference section about trailers include some photographs from LHG and several paragraphs attributed to him that suggest a procedure for setting up a keel-roller trailer's bunks. The six articles in the series on trailers include many photographs contributed by several readers and much advice from many other participants. A very significant contribution is from Jerry Townsend, who wrote a beautiful analysis of trailer hitch loading and describes in detail a scientific method to deduce the effect on tongue weight of moving the trailer axles.
contender posted 10-24-2013 09:44 PM ET (US)
Your problem is your safety chain, needs to be replaced and reposition, you should have a chain, turnbuckel with a shackel combo that is tied into/onto that cross member that is visiable in your photo. The chain/turnbuckel/shackel combo should be verticle as possible... You place your boat on the trailer were it needs to be then attach the chain/turnbuckel/shackel to the bow eye and tigthen the turnbuckel. This way the boat can not move on the trailer (forward or back) or bounce on it as well.
jimh posted 10-24-2013 11:00 PM ET (US)
The position of the bow eye on that particular Boston Whaler model makes it impossible to have the winch stand roller positioned just above the bow eye: there is too much overhang of the upper part of the hull.
I don't like the configuration shown in the image associated with "my boat" because it looks like the bow stop is getting crushed and deformed. Perhaps you should change the bow stop to a V-shaped bow stop from the present round roller type bow stop. A V-shaped bow stop might fit into the small space between the boat's bow eye and its overhanging chine line (the Smirk).
In general you want the bow stop to be above the bow eye at the end position because:
--it will help to stop the boat moving forward and upward in the event of some sudden stop or other tendency for the boat to move forward, and
--it is hard to get the bow eye over the bow stop if the end position is to be with the bow stop below the bow eye; usually you cannot winch the boat into the position. You'd have to lift it over the bow stop and then drop the boat into place.
Another alternative is a two-roller bow stop. I have this on my trailer. The two rollers end up with one above the bow eye and one below the bow eye. The two stop rollers are set on a small pivoting frame. There are three holes in the frame, so you can make its action to be symmetrical or asymmetrical, as the situation requires. With my boat and trailer, the bow eye on the boat comes up into position, then the bottom roller of the pivoting bow stop is pushed into place under the bow eye. It works quite well. Something like that might help your situation.
As for tightening the bow eye down with a turnbuckle, that seems a bit too rigid for me. I think it it better to have a bit of elasticity in the system. Even a nylon strap has a bit of give; a steel turnbuckle and chain would not have any give and all the dynamic loading would be transferred to the bow eye. That is a good way to get cracked laminate around the bow eye.
jason78 posted 10-27-2013 11:01 PM ET (US)
Sorry it took so long to reply. I appreciate all the input and have read the very informative trailering article. It seems like the forward keel roller will be of great help. I think I may need to add a crossmember to do that. I will contact EZ loader and see if it is a part I can order. Yesterday I moved the entire winch assembly down about 2 inches. My goal is to try and get the stop closer to the bow eye than where it is now. I guess all I can do is keep adjusting it till it hits the right place when I put it on which (I believe) is above the eye and just above "Smirk". I left the boat in the water this week at my marina. I think I am going to go down tomorrow and put it on the trailer just to see where it ends up after my adjustment. I also had to move the bunks a bit because the boat would not center correctly leaving either the port or starboard fish locker drain thru hull on a bunk. Want to make sure both are clear of bunks.
Switching to a V-Stop sounds like a good idea if I can just get the assembly positioned so the bow does not have to "ride up" the stop till the boat is all the way on.
Thanks again for all of the input! It is greatly appreciated!
jimh posted 10-28-2013 12:01 AM ET (US)
Here is another idea:
On you present winch stand, the bow stop roller is fixed to a bracket. Modify this as follows:
--remove the present bow stop roller; set aside
--remove the forward bolts on the bracket that attach it to the winch stand;
--adjust the tension of the remaining bolt or bolts so the two side of the bracket can pivot;
--re-install the existing bow stop roller onto the bracket so it is above the winch strap, using the holes that were previously used secure the bracket to the winch stand;
--purchase another bow stop roller, and install it on the bracket using the holes that were previously used for the original bow roller.
This should give you a two-roller bow stop. The bracket might be symmetrical--I cannot tell from the pictures. If it is asymmetrical you probably want the shorter arm to be on the upper roller; determine this with experimentation.
The action you will get from a pivoting two-roller bow stop will be like this:
--as the stem of the bow comes forward on the trailer, the pivoting bracket will be hanging vertically;
--the bow stem should contact the upper roller first; this should occur at about the same time as the bow eye on the boat is very close to the winch stand;
--the bow stem pushes the upper roller back, as the boat bow eye comes over the lower roller
--further forward movement of the boat swings the lower roller into contact with the bow stem
The boat's bow stem is now in contact with both upper and lower rollers, and the boat's bow eye is between the two rollers. Typically you bring the boat forward until the upper part of the bow eye comes into contact with the bottom side of the upper roller. The boat is now held snugly in place in contact with two bow rollers and with the bow eye positioned between them.
jason78 posted 10-28-2013 09:48 PM ET (US)
OK, went down to the dock and made some adjustments tonight. I think I am really close to where I need to be. Looking for some opinions after seeing the pictures. As Jim suggested, I removed and reversed the position of the bow stop bracket and switched the roller to the other side. This bracket was asymmetrical so moving it changed the height and angle to what I believe is better. Also lowered the entire winch stand about 2 inches. The boat seems to sit a bit farther up and the bow does not have as much rise when positioned on the trailer but is much easier to winch on. Now when the boat floats in the roller is about even with the stainless anchor chute whereas before the stop was several inches above the SS plate. Once you start winching, the bow "rides" up the bow stop roller in to position. I think I definitely need a new solid roller but don't think a V-stop will work since the bow has to "ride" up when winching. Please let me know what you think. Below is a link to a photobucket album with several pictures. I am thinking I do not have rights to post images here. Thanks Again!
http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/flipper507/library/Trailer%20Adjusted
boatdryver posted 10-29-2013 08:59 AM ET (US)
I enjoy this "problem solving" sort of thread.
I think Jimh's observation that the placement of the bow eye in relation to the smirk on this model presents a challenge in getting the setup right is spot on.
Looking at the posted photo labelled "not my boat" the bow roller position seems to be where you are trying to get yours. If so, and assuming that that setup works for that guy, it looks to me that you need to lower your bow roller even more than is shown in your latest photobucket picture.
Have you checked your bunks to be sure the forward ends are high enough to be in contact with the hull.
I'm wondering if the previous owner got this trailer after purchasing the boat and it was really never set up for this hull.
JimL
jason78 posted 10-29-2013 12:22 PM ET (US)
JimL, It was getting dark and I did not have a chance to look and see if the bunks were making contact with the hull all the way forward. Is it normal to have to adjust the height on the forward portion of the bunks up more than the rear portion? I do know the bunks are straight, as in they are the same height up from center in the front and the back.
I can go a bit lower on the entire winch assembly if I need to. Does the boat "appear" to be sitting on the trailer properly? It seems to me like it is.
I have all the original paperwork and the boat and trailer were purchased together as a package from the BW dealer new. I guess they just did not do the best job setting up the trailer at that time.
Thanks! Jason

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Author	Topic: Need Help with Bow Stop Placement
jason78	posted 10-22-2013 08:17 PM ET (US) Hello, looking for a little advice regarding the bow stop on my trailer. I just got a 1997 20 Outrage. I have plenty of boating experience but have never trailered until now. The issue I have is the boat is hard to winch up on the trailer unless the trailer is WAY in the water. When I float the boat on, the roller is above or right at rub rail height. I have to lift up on the bow while cranking to get it all the way in. The other day I found a picture of a 99 20 Outrage on the exact same EZ Loader trailer. It appears they have the roller positioned lower, almost right in front of the bow eye. Looking to see if I can get some suggestions on whether or not I need to move the roller down. I am not sure what the "proper" placement of the bow stop should be. Just trying to figure out if mine is correct or the one in the picture is better placement. Thanks!
Marko888	posted 10-22-2013 08:33 PM ET (US) You want to have the bow-stop roller above the bow eye, as in your photo. In a panic stop situation, the boat will not be able to slide up and over the bow stop, as the cable will prevent this by being below the bow eye. Second item needed is a forward keel roller, positioned in the area below the winch on a forward cross member or similar. This will keep the bow from dropping when stern starts to float, and makes winching easier. Look for LHG's details on the trailer setup in the reference section. I set mine up this way this year and launch & load is now almost effortless.
andygere	posted 10-22-2013 10:06 PM ET (US) In addition to the other good suggestions already made, lubricate your bunk carpet with silicone spray. It will winch up much more easily.
jimh	posted 10-22-2013 10:47 PM ET (US) Advice about the position of a bow stop is given in the REFERENCE article on trailer set-up, under the subheading "Winch Stand." http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/trailering/trailer.html If the lead of the trailer winch strap onto the winch from the bow eye is downward, it will be much harder to winch the boat onto the trailer than if the lead of the winch strap is level or slightly upward. I have my winch stand adjusted so the lead onto the winch is upward from the boat's bow eye. This helps to bring the boat onto the trailer more easily. Once the boat is completely on the trailer, the bow eye is positioned between the dual bow stop rollers on my winch stand. I then fit another strap to the bow eye, passing it downward and around the center tube of the trailer frame, creating a firm downward pull. This prevents the boat from bouncing up and down on the trailer, which it will do without this added strap. The second strap adds a back up in case the main winch strap should become loose or part. And, of course, there is the safety chain. Having a keel roller near the winch stand is very important. Typically when loading the boat onto the trailer the stern will be buoyed up by its deeper than normal immersion in the water. This will create a force that tends to drive the bow of the bow downward. To prevent the bow from being forced downward by the stern buoyancy, you need a roller under the keel near the bow to resist that downward force. And you do not want the winch strap angled down, as that will just add more downward force and create more difficulty in getting the boat to come forward onto the trailer. The six articles in the Reference section about trailers include some photographs from LHG and several paragraphs attributed to him that suggest a procedure for setting up a keel-roller trailer's bunks. The six articles in the series on trailers include many photographs contributed by several readers and much advice from many other participants. A very significant contribution is from Jerry Townsend, who wrote a beautiful analysis of trailer hitch loading and describes in detail a scientific method to deduce the effect on tongue weight of moving the trailer axles.
contender	posted 10-24-2013 09:44 PM ET (US) Your problem is your safety chain, needs to be replaced and reposition, you should have a chain, turnbuckel with a shackel combo that is tied into/onto that cross member that is visiable in your photo. The chain/turnbuckel/shackel combo should be verticle as possible... You place your boat on the trailer were it needs to be then attach the chain/turnbuckel/shackel to the bow eye and tigthen the turnbuckel. This way the boat can not move on the trailer (forward or back) or bounce on it as well.
jimh	posted 10-24-2013 11:00 PM ET (US) The position of the bow eye on that particular Boston Whaler model makes it impossible to have the winch stand roller positioned just above the bow eye: there is too much overhang of the upper part of the hull. I don't like the configuration shown in the image associated with "my boat" because it looks like the bow stop is getting crushed and deformed. Perhaps you should change the bow stop to a V-shaped bow stop from the present round roller type bow stop. A V-shaped bow stop might fit into the small space between the boat's bow eye and its overhanging chine line (the Smirk). In general you want the bow stop to be above the bow eye at the end position because: --it will help to stop the boat moving forward and upward in the event of some sudden stop or other tendency for the boat to move forward, and --it is hard to get the bow eye over the bow stop if the end position is to be with the bow stop below the bow eye; usually you cannot winch the boat into the position. You'd have to lift it over the bow stop and then drop the boat into place. Another alternative is a two-roller bow stop. I have this on my trailer. The two rollers end up with one above the bow eye and one below the bow eye. The two stop rollers are set on a small pivoting frame. There are three holes in the frame, so you can make its action to be symmetrical or asymmetrical, as the situation requires. With my boat and trailer, the bow eye on the boat comes up into position, then the bottom roller of the pivoting bow stop is pushed into place under the bow eye. It works quite well. Something like that might help your situation. As for tightening the bow eye down with a turnbuckle, that seems a bit too rigid for me. I think it it better to have a bit of elasticity in the system. Even a nylon strap has a bit of give; a steel turnbuckle and chain would not have any give and all the dynamic loading would be transferred to the bow eye. That is a good way to get cracked laminate around the bow eye.
jason78	posted 10-27-2013 11:01 PM ET (US) Sorry it took so long to reply. I appreciate all the input and have read the very informative trailering article. It seems like the forward keel roller will be of great help. I think I may need to add a crossmember to do that. I will contact EZ loader and see if it is a part I can order. Yesterday I moved the entire winch assembly down about 2 inches. My goal is to try and get the stop closer to the bow eye than where it is now. I guess all I can do is keep adjusting it till it hits the right place when I put it on which (I believe) is above the eye and just above "Smirk". I left the boat in the water this week at my marina. I think I am going to go down tomorrow and put it on the trailer just to see where it ends up after my adjustment. I also had to move the bunks a bit because the boat would not center correctly leaving either the port or starboard fish locker drain thru hull on a bunk. Want to make sure both are clear of bunks. Switching to a V-Stop sounds like a good idea if I can just get the assembly positioned so the bow does not have to "ride up" the stop till the boat is all the way on. Thanks again for all of the input! It is greatly appreciated!
jimh	posted 10-28-2013 12:01 AM ET (US) Here is another idea: On you present winch stand, the bow stop roller is fixed to a bracket. Modify this as follows: --remove the present bow stop roller; set aside --remove the forward bolts on the bracket that attach it to the winch stand; --adjust the tension of the remaining bolt or bolts so the two side of the bracket can pivot; --re-install the existing bow stop roller onto the bracket so it is above the winch strap, using the holes that were previously used secure the bracket to the winch stand; --purchase another bow stop roller, and install it on the bracket using the holes that were previously used for the original bow roller. This should give you a two-roller bow stop. The bracket might be symmetrical--I cannot tell from the pictures. If it is asymmetrical you probably want the shorter arm to be on the upper roller; determine this with experimentation. The action you will get from a pivoting two-roller bow stop will be like this: --as the stem of the bow comes forward on the trailer, the pivoting bracket will be hanging vertically; --the bow stem should contact the upper roller first; this should occur at about the same time as the bow eye on the boat is very close to the winch stand; --the bow stem pushes the upper roller back, as the boat bow eye comes over the lower roller --further forward movement of the boat swings the lower roller into contact with the bow stem The boat's bow stem is now in contact with both upper and lower rollers, and the boat's bow eye is between the two rollers. Typically you bring the boat forward until the upper part of the bow eye comes into contact with the bottom side of the upper roller. The boat is now held snugly in place in contact with two bow rollers and with the bow eye positioned between them.
jason78	posted 10-28-2013 09:48 PM ET (US) OK, went down to the dock and made some adjustments tonight. I think I am really close to where I need to be. Looking for some opinions after seeing the pictures. As Jim suggested, I removed and reversed the position of the bow stop bracket and switched the roller to the other side. This bracket was asymmetrical so moving it changed the height and angle to what I believe is better. Also lowered the entire winch stand about 2 inches. The boat seems to sit a bit farther up and the bow does not have as much rise when positioned on the trailer but is much easier to winch on. Now when the boat floats in the roller is about even with the stainless anchor chute whereas before the stop was several inches above the SS plate. Once you start winching, the bow "rides" up the bow stop roller in to position. I think I definitely need a new solid roller but don't think a V-stop will work since the bow has to "ride" up when winching. Please let me know what you think. Below is a link to a photobucket album with several pictures. I am thinking I do not have rights to post images here. Thanks Again! http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/flipper507/library/Trailer%20Adjusted
boatdryver	posted 10-29-2013 08:59 AM ET (US) I enjoy this "problem solving" sort of thread. I think Jimh's observation that the placement of the bow eye in relation to the smirk on this model presents a challenge in getting the setup right is spot on. Looking at the posted photo labelled "not my boat" the bow roller position seems to be where you are trying to get yours. If so, and assuming that that setup works for that guy, it looks to me that you need to lower your bow roller even more than is shown in your latest photobucket picture. Have you checked your bunks to be sure the forward ends are high enough to be in contact with the hull. I'm wondering if the previous owner got this trailer after purchasing the boat and it was really never set up for this hull. JimL
jason78	posted 10-29-2013 12:22 PM ET (US) JimL, It was getting dark and I did not have a chance to look and see if the bunks were making contact with the hull all the way forward. Is it normal to have to adjust the height on the forward portion of the bunks up more than the rear portion? I do know the bunks are straight, as in they are the same height up from center in the front and the back. I can go a bit lower on the entire winch assembly if I need to. Does the boat "appear" to be sitting on the trailer properly? It seems to me like it is. I have all the original paperwork and the boat and trailer were purchased together as a package from the BW dealer new. I guess they just did not do the best job setting up the trailer at that time. Thanks! Jason