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Author Topic:   M170 Trailering
Laurak posted 11-25-2013 06:33 PM ET (US)   Profile for Laurak   Send Email to Laurak  
I recently purchased a 2013, M170, that comes with the Karavan swing tongue trailer. It is now in winter storage with my dealer. I will not take possession of it until next spring so I have not had a chance to see how the boat trailers and if there are any difficulties launching and retrieving it on the boat ramp. I will be towing it with a double cab full size pickup (Toyota Tundra). The prior boat I trailered was 23', with a larger trailer, and I was able to see the driver side trailer tires from my driver side mirror, which enabled me to see the trailer and maneuver it when empty, when I backed into the ramp to retrieve my boat. I am concerned that because the Karavan trailer is shorter than my prior trailer and I will not be able to see the trailer when empty. In fact I have been told that is the way it is. Needless to say, that would create a problem in backing down to the ramp to retrieve my boat, because I would not be able to see the trailer. Because I have a double cab pickup, putting the tailgate down won't enable me to see the trailer. If I am able to see the trailer tires with my standard side mirrors it would not be a problem for me to maneuver with an empty trailer. I would appreciate any comment and/or advice from M170 owners who tow with a double cab full size pickup. I would like to know if you have any difficulties trailering , launching and retrieving your M170 on a ramp and if so how you handle those difficulties Your input will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Herb
Buckda posted 11-25-2013 07:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Trailer Guide On poles (made from PVC tubing) will help greatly. My brother has a 16' aluminum boat and I have an F150 SuperCrew 4x4. Without those guide poles, that trailer would surely be all over the ramp because you just can't see it until you've overcorrected.

jimh posted 11-25-2013 07:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Tall white PVC guide posts on the rear of the trailer are very helpful when backing the trailer onto a loading ramp, with or without the boat on the trailer. They are also very useful for their intended purpose, guiding the boat onto the trailer from the water. They give a double bonus.
klh posted 11-26-2013 07:39 AM ET (US)     Profile for klh  Send Email to klh     
I have an 09 Silverado crew cab. I drop the tailgate in order to see the trailer when empty. The tailgate has enough clearance to not obstruct the trailer when turning or backing.
swist posted 11-26-2013 08:25 AM ET (US)     Profile for swist  Send Email to swist     
And you do need to see that trailer well. When I bought the same boat I thought backing would be easier as the trailer was considerably shorter than my previous 24' tandem. But the M170 trailer has a very short distance from tongue to pivot point (the wheels) and it thus exaggerates any off center reverse movement of the tow vehicle. Tiny little steering wheel movement coupled with going too fast or not watching carefully, and the next thing you know the trailer has quickly flown off to one side.

Do some practicing with the boat off the trailer.

blacksmithdog posted 11-26-2013 09:49 AM ET (US)     Profile for blacksmithdog  Send Email to blacksmithdog     
I have an M170, a 2006. It's not bad to back, I've certainly backed worse trailers. As stated earlier, you need to add guide ons. My Karavan trailer did not come with them. I looked around quite a bit, and I found these ones. The appear to be the heaviest duty ones around:

http://www.veveinc.com/shop/ Post-Guide-Ons-T-945-G-47-inch-galvanized-model.html

They actually solved another problem for me. Depending on the ramp, the boat floats too much sometimes on retrieval, and when you pulled it out, it wasn't centered. The guide ons solved that problem as well.

jimh posted 11-26-2013 09:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Swist observes:

quote:
...the M170 trailer has a very short distance from tongue to pivot point (the wheels) and it thus exaggerates any off center reverse movement of the tow vehicle.

This is a very acute observation.

tedious posted 11-26-2013 10:42 AM ET (US)     Profile for tedious  Send Email to tedious     
I can answer that specifically, having backed my neighbor's M170 trailer down a ramp behind my Ridgeline. It's challenging without trailer guides - once the ramp starts to slope you don't see the trailer at all.

I did it without, and even with a watcher calling signals, it was a long process to get it down the ramp. Other than that, extremely easy to launch and tow.

Tim

Jefecinco posted 11-26-2013 05:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jefecinco  Send Email to Jefecinco     
klh has made an excellent suggestion. With the tailgate opened you'll never lose track of your boat/trailer except on extremely steep ramps. Even on steep ramps you'll always know how the boat is doing by watching the bow and the trailer winch post. It takes very few launches to be able to learn when your trailer is beginning to track to one side or the other.

Butch

Chuck Tribolet posted 11-26-2013 06:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
I have no problem seeing the console of my Montauk in the
center rear view mirrors, nor seeing the fenders in the side
rear view mirrors, of my Pathfinder.

Chuck

Laurak posted 11-26-2013 07:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for Laurak  Send Email to Laurak     
Thanks to all of you for your replies to my post. Your advice and comments were very helpful and greatly appreciated. The ramp where I will be mostly using my M170 is steep so I have gone ahead and ordered guide ons to make the job easier. Take care and thanks again.

Herb

ktm3ten posted 11-26-2013 08:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for ktm3ten  Send Email to ktm3ten     
I have the same boat (an '08) with the same truck. I've never had any trouble seeing trailer or backing boat. It's a great truck and an easy boat. Return the guide-ons and buy more goodies for the water. You'll love your setup!
swist posted 11-27-2013 07:55 AM ET (US)     Profile for swist  Send Email to swist     
Jim H - It was not originally my acute observation - someone on this forum may have suggested the short pivot radius to me a couple years back - and I think that might have been you.
Dave Sutton posted 11-27-2013 08:05 AM ET (US)     Profile for Dave Sutton  Send Email to Dave Sutton     
As others have said, the guide posts really help. As does lowering the tailgate of the truck (assuming that you don't have a cap on the truck).

One last thing to consider: Front mounted hitch. I put one on my Suburban and it's the best $150 I ever spent at JC Whitney. It lets me steer the trailer like a forklift, for getting it close to the fence in the yard as well as launching on some of the iffy ramps we have here. Highly recommended. You would not believe the improvement in maneuverabiloty, never mind visibility.


Dave

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johnhenry posted 11-27-2013 08:18 AM ET (US)     Profile for johnhenry  Send Email to johnhenry     
Hmm. I don't know about a front hitched vehicle being used to drop and pick up off a ramp. Especially salt water. I don't want my front end exposed to water intrusion, much less the engine area. Much easier and less long term maintenance if tow hitch in rear.
tedious posted 11-27-2013 08:47 AM ET (US)     Profile for tedious  Send Email to tedious     
Having the tailgate open helps, but the small, low trailer was still pretty hard to see on the ramp I used - it kind of curved downwards. Guide-ons are definitely useful - money well spent.

Regarding getting salt water on the vehicle, I often see people putting their trailers in way, way deeper than necessary. Although I know it depends on the boat, the trailer, and the ramp, most of the time the tow vehicle does not need to make contact with the water. I launch 3 boats routinely (SuperSport 15, Outrage, and another brand moderate-V 22 footer) and I've never needed to have my tires even touch the water.

Tim

johnhenry posted 11-27-2013 09:49 AM ET (US)     Profile for johnhenry  Send Email to johnhenry     
I agree that some if not most of the time your wheels don't get wet but that can change from ramp to ramp, tidal changes, wind, and other boat turbulence.
I also have an 08 170, tow it with a minivan. I have no trouble seeing the trailer, and I do keep the hatch up, for 2 reasons. Easier to see, and I can crawl through the van and step right on the trailer if I want, or vice versa and not get my feet wet.
Dave Sutton posted 11-27-2013 11:22 AM ET (US)     Profile for Dave Sutton  Send Email to Dave Sutton     
Front hitch gives options. Use it when it makes sense and use the other end when that makes sense. They are useful things and I would not be without it. When there's nothing plugged into the receiver you don't even know it's there.


Dave

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Marsh posted 11-27-2013 01:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for Marsh  Send Email to Marsh     
I back my empty M170 trailer down a 300' ramp using my 2008 Ford F-150 Super Crew 4-door pick up. I do not have any trailer guides, poles, flags or anything. I cannot see the empty trailer thru my rear glass, but am able to see the left trailer fender if I lean out the driver door window. My key is to back down slowly, making VERY small steering corrections. It is a very long, narrow ramp, and I am able to use it with very little difficulty. Backing my Empty Wave Runner trailer is a bit more challenging, but again, I am able to do so by leaning out driver's window, and using the side mirror to see the left trailer fender.

In summary, backing an empty M170 trailer is no problem whatsoever for me and my Ford Super Crew. Adding guide poles would not hurt anything, but I don't need them.

Ferdinando posted 11-28-2013 09:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ferdinando  Send Email to Ferdinando     
Dave: Based on your input I just purchased a front hitch for my Frontier this afternoon from Amazon with free shipping!

I hope your recommendation is correct as I think it is, I do boat alone a lot of times so I think the front hitch deal will make my life easier.

Will soon find out, Thks for the tip,

Fred

whalerdude posted 11-28-2013 10:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalerdude  Send Email to whalerdude     
There are some great aftermarket back up cameras out there. That would help. I have one and it sure helps when I am backing up to hook the trailer on to the ball.
wezie posted 12-01-2013 11:49 AM ET (US)     Profile for wezie  Send Email to wezie     
I can back the 170 trailer wo guides. It is just so much better with them. As stated, they also help load the boat.
Opening the tailgate of the truck works until you forgrt it and turn the vehicle a bit too tight. The tongue jack or winch post will leave a cute notch in the top of your tail gate. Have you noticed a few of those. The lift gate SUVs may work great. If you bend one of those, it will get expensive.
I am looking for a back up camera to help connect the trailer, and see what is behind the truck wo the trailer. They can be helpful, but do ot solve all problems.
contender posted 12-01-2013 04:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for contender  Send Email to contender     
I had a problem backing down my son's 11 whaler trailer with my truck. My truck (2500HD Chevy Long Bed Dual Cab)is so big you can not see the trailer in the side mirrors or the rear mirror when the boat is not on the trailer. I have a large tool box on the back that also blocks the rear window view as well. I took a peice of PVC and attached it to the center of the rear cross member of the trailer, When the boat is off the trailer I put a broom handel in the PVC which gives me the center of the trailer, now I can back the trailer down straight without even seeing it...
martyn1075 posted 12-02-2013 02:05 AM ET (US)     Profile for martyn1075  Send Email to martyn1075     
Contender that I could see being a big problem with a truck that size and a small Whaler. Good modification to make it work. I had a small ford escape towing a 17 Standard and it was tough at times on steep ramps to see where the trailer was. I had to really lift my body up to see over in those circumstances otherwise it was a breeze. I can't imagine a 2500HD truck.

Martyn

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