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Mike Kub posted 01-03-2014 09:49 PM ET (US)
Most notable observation at the Houston Boat show was the increased presence of E-TEC outboard engines. Hardly anything that floats was less than $15,000. The marine industry must think that much of the money we will save on our health care will be spent on boats. Those new E-TEC outboards sure looked good. Peace
jimh posted 01-04-2014 11:11 AM ET (US)
I think the relative cost of boating, measured by the cost of the boats relative to the disposable income of the general working public, was probably lowest in c.1986, because that is the year that boating was at its peak in terms of number of boats and number of boaters. Since c.1986, the boating industry has been able to increase its business when measured in total dollars, but that has been done by selling fewer boats at a higher average cost to a decreasing number of interested boaters.
Buckda posted 01-04-2014 12:05 PM ET (US)
Another factor in the decline of smaller, affordable boats is the relative availability of serviceable small craft on the used market. There is a lot of junk out there as well, but compared to buying new, there are a lot of really good buys. The boom years produced pretty durable hulls that you see all over the place. I see a LOT of 70's-90's model hulls on the water and plenty of 1960's era boats as well.
For $15K, you can repower almost any small outboard powered boat and get another 20 years life from it.
weekendwarrior posted 01-05-2014 11:14 AM ET (US)
Just owning and operating a boat is becoming very expensive. I've got a 1996 Montauk 17', not a big boat. Here in FL every year I have to pay registration on my trailer ($33), my boat ($32), by a parking sticker for the public ramps ($37), insurance on the boat ($318), buy a freshwater fishing license ($19) and a saltwater license ($19). That's over $400 in yearly recurring expenses that don't even apply directly to the boat itself (don't apply to maintenance or consumables)! Unfortunately insurance really is a necessity here in the most litigious state in this nation. :(
Tom W Clark posted 01-05-2014 12:03 PM ET (US)

quote:
...selling fewer boats at a higher average cost to a decreasing number of interested boaters.
That is an inevitable consequence of the increasing income inequality in the US. As more disposable income in concentrated in the hands of fewer but wealthier individuals, they will be the ones to buy the $400,000 Boston Whalers, not me.
The good news is that Whalers are well built boats and there are still plenty of perfectly sound and relatively inexpensive 1986 models around for us to buy and enjoy.
In the words of Dick Fisher: "...you might vote more thoughtfully however."
OMCrobert posted 01-05-2014 12:17 PM ET (US)
I would argue that the cost of boating is cheaper than ever before and that people have more discretionary income vs ever before.
The bar has been raised in what it the new base line- iPhones, flats screen televisions, two cars.......... Even the poor have cars and smartphone vs what was considered poor 30 years ago.
The used boat market is flooded and it is possible to pick up a great 20ft used boat for $10k. I feel that boat builders are completing with their own used products from 20 years ago at a fraction of the price. The small or cheap boat market is very difficult to enter with a new product due to the costs involved. The business model for boat companies is to focus on the high margin products.
wannabe posted 01-05-2014 06:13 PM ET (US)
I agree with T.W. Clark. I live in Toledo, Ohio which is predominately a blue collar town that has/had a lot of autoworkers that made a good living in the mid eighties. Many of those autoworkers spent their money at the seven area new boat dealers. With shrinking of the area autoworkers numbers and their stagnant or declining earnings, Toledo now has no place to buy a new boat.

Drew
frontier posted 01-05-2014 10:47 PM ET (US)
[Changed topic away from the new boat market and into politics.]
Mike Kub posted 01-06-2014 07:39 AM ET (US)
The most notable observation was the increased presence of E-Tecs. More dealers and motors. Peace
jcdawg83 posted 01-06-2014 09:17 AM ET (US)
I think the E-tec is going to start gaining market share. It has the fuel efficiency and quiet operation of the four strokes, but the performance and more compact size of a two stroke. They won't be everyone's choice, but I think they will become more and more popular.
As to boat prices, I have had two different boat dealers tell me the minimum entry price for a new boat, unless you are looking at a very small aluminum boat or tiller steered fiberglass skiff, is about $20,000.
They also tell me the used boat market is killing them. Modern boats and engines are very durable and the average person uses a boat about 30 hours a year. A 10 year old boat with 300 hours on the engine and a hull that has been taken care of still has many, many years of use left in it and can be bought for a small fraction of a comparable new boat.
AZdave posted 01-06-2014 01:04 PM ET (US)
We happen to be in town and it's been years. I think we'll check it out tomorrow.
jimh posted 01-06-2014 03:12 PM ET (US)
To put the used boat market into perspective, in 2014 it is reasonable to buy a boat hull made 25-years earlier, which would be 1989. As we have seen, there are many very happy owners of Boston Whaler boats made in c.1989 who are enjoying those boats today.
If we returned to 1986, our benchmark year for highest boat sales, and looked at the boats available in 1986, a 25-year-old boat would have been made in 1961. I don't think that there were too many 1961 hulls available that would have been very attractive compared to a new boat in 1986.
BQUICK posted 01-06-2014 04:51 PM ET (US)
Interesting point Jim....
Quality and performance stabilizes after a time.
When I was in HS in the early 70s we wouldn't think of driving a car from the mid 40s or even mid 50s.
These days a 20-25yr old car is no big deal. My 20 yr old son drives a 1989 car. That would be like me at his age driving a 40s car! I don't think so!

hauptjm posted 01-07-2014 11:26 AM ET (US)
I think there are many factors at play that are effecting the boating industry. Like life itself, it never boils down to just one thing. As much as we humans like to simplify things to make us feel better, sometimes it's just a fact of our non-static lives.
In the mid 80s, as was stated, if we drove a 25 year-old car or boat, it might have had three holes in the side (a la Buick) or fins (thank you Cadillac). It may have been made out of wood (possible) or had a woefully underpowered power plant.
As the US came out of the 50s and 60s and the production of boats were reaching numbers never seen before, we gobbled them up. Good business for the manufacturers and many options made for affordable craft. A manufacturer could plan for the building of volume. Then something funny happened on the way to forum.
Like people, markets evolve and mature. Fiberglass has a shelf life of...who really knows. What I do know is that it last a really long time if it's taken care of. Design features of the Jetsons gave way to more pragmatic design features and supply increased 10 fold, 100 fold, etc.
Fast forward to 2014 and we arrive at a place in time where we have an extremely large inventory of fairly modern boats with very long useful lives that can bought at far lower prices than the manufacturers can compete against. So....the boat companies now build boats that are not in the supply line (larger boats for the most part) and can be considerably more valuable to their bottom line and can be "turned-on/turned-off", from a production standpoint, faster/more efficiently than smaller boats that need to be produced in quantity to derive the same profit.
Lastly, if we add the changing demographics of the population, wealth and alternate forms of distraction for our spending dollars, we arrive where we are today. I'm sure I missed 100s of other factors, but I really prefer to accept this view as opposed to some nefarious undercurrent of the Have's/Have Not's or some politician. I'm not saying those fellas in Washington don't mess with every button they can get their hands on, but sometimes it's not that simple.
silentpardner posted 01-07-2014 12:08 PM ET (US)
Very well said and spot on in my opinion hauptjm!

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Author	Topic: Houston Boat Show observation
Mike Kub	posted 01-03-2014 09:49 PM ET (US) Most notable observation at the Houston Boat show was the increased presence of E-TEC outboard engines. Hardly anything that floats was less than $15,000. The marine industry must think that much of the money we will save on our health care will be spent on boats. Those new E-TEC outboards sure looked good. Peace
jimh	posted 01-04-2014 11:11 AM ET (US) I think the relative cost of boating, measured by the cost of the boats relative to the disposable income of the general working public, was probably lowest in c.1986, because that is the year that boating was at its peak in terms of number of boats and number of boaters. Since c.1986, the boating industry has been able to increase its business when measured in total dollars, but that has been done by selling fewer boats at a higher average cost to a decreasing number of interested boaters.
Buckda	posted 01-04-2014 12:05 PM ET (US) Another factor in the decline of smaller, affordable boats is the relative availability of serviceable small craft on the used market. There is a lot of junk out there as well, but compared to buying new, there are a lot of really good buys. The boom years produced pretty durable hulls that you see all over the place. I see a LOT of 70's-90's model hulls on the water and plenty of 1960's era boats as well. For $15K, you can repower almost any small outboard powered boat and get another 20 years life from it.
weekendwarrior	posted 01-05-2014 11:14 AM ET (US) Just owning and operating a boat is becoming very expensive. I've got a 1996 Montauk 17', not a big boat. Here in FL every year I have to pay registration on my trailer ($33), my boat ($32), by a parking sticker for the public ramps ($37), insurance on the boat ($318), buy a freshwater fishing license ($19) and a saltwater license ($19). That's over $400 in yearly recurring expenses that don't even apply directly to the boat itself (don't apply to maintenance or consumables)! Unfortunately insurance really is a necessity here in the most litigious state in this nation. :(
Tom W Clark	posted 01-05-2014 12:03 PM ET (US) quote: ...selling fewer boats at a higher average cost to a decreasing number of interested boaters. That is an inevitable consequence of the increasing income inequality in the US. As more disposable income in concentrated in the hands of fewer but wealthier individuals, they will be the ones to buy the $400,000 Boston Whalers, not me. The good news is that Whalers are well built boats and there are still plenty of perfectly sound and relatively inexpensive 1986 models around for us to buy and enjoy. In the words of Dick Fisher: "...you might vote more thoughtfully however."
OMCrobert	posted 01-05-2014 12:17 PM ET (US) I would argue that the cost of boating is cheaper than ever before and that people have more discretionary income vs ever before. The bar has been raised in what it the new base line- iPhones, flats screen televisions, two cars.......... Even the poor have cars and smartphone vs what was considered poor 30 years ago. The used boat market is flooded and it is possible to pick up a great 20ft used boat for $10k. I feel that boat builders are completing with their own used products from 20 years ago at a fraction of the price. The small or cheap boat market is very difficult to enter with a new product due to the costs involved. The business model for boat companies is to focus on the high margin products.
wannabe	posted 01-05-2014 06:13 PM ET (US) I agree with T.W. Clark. I live in Toledo, Ohio which is predominately a blue collar town that has/had a lot of autoworkers that made a good living in the mid eighties. Many of those autoworkers spent their money at the seven area new boat dealers. With shrinking of the area autoworkers numbers and their stagnant or declining earnings, Toledo now has no place to buy a new boat. Drew
frontier	posted 01-05-2014 10:47 PM ET (US) [Changed topic away from the new boat market and into politics.]
Mike Kub	posted 01-06-2014 07:39 AM ET (US) The most notable observation was the increased presence of E-Tecs. More dealers and motors. Peace
jcdawg83	posted 01-06-2014 09:17 AM ET (US) I think the E-tec is going to start gaining market share. It has the fuel efficiency and quiet operation of the four strokes, but the performance and more compact size of a two stroke. They won't be everyone's choice, but I think they will become more and more popular. As to boat prices, I have had two different boat dealers tell me the minimum entry price for a new boat, unless you are looking at a very small aluminum boat or tiller steered fiberglass skiff, is about $20,000. They also tell me the used boat market is killing them. Modern boats and engines are very durable and the average person uses a boat about 30 hours a year. A 10 year old boat with 300 hours on the engine and a hull that has been taken care of still has many, many years of use left in it and can be bought for a small fraction of a comparable new boat.
AZdave	posted 01-06-2014 01:04 PM ET (US) We happen to be in town and it's been years. I think we'll check it out tomorrow.
jimh	posted 01-06-2014 03:12 PM ET (US) To put the used boat market into perspective, in 2014 it is reasonable to buy a boat hull made 25-years earlier, which would be 1989. As we have seen, there are many very happy owners of Boston Whaler boats made in c.1989 who are enjoying those boats today. If we returned to 1986, our benchmark year for highest boat sales, and looked at the boats available in 1986, a 25-year-old boat would have been made in 1961. I don't think that there were too many 1961 hulls available that would have been very attractive compared to a new boat in 1986.
BQUICK	posted 01-06-2014 04:51 PM ET (US) Interesting point Jim.... Quality and performance stabilizes after a time. When I was in HS in the early 70s we wouldn't think of driving a car from the mid 40s or even mid 50s. These days a 20-25yr old car is no big deal. My 20 yr old son drives a 1989 car. That would be like me at his age driving a 40s car! I don't think so!
hauptjm	posted 01-07-2014 11:26 AM ET (US) I think there are many factors at play that are effecting the boating industry. Like life itself, it never boils down to just one thing. As much as we humans like to simplify things to make us feel better, sometimes it's just a fact of our non-static lives. In the mid 80s, as was stated, if we drove a 25 year-old car or boat, it might have had three holes in the side (a la Buick) or fins (thank you Cadillac). It may have been made out of wood (possible) or had a woefully underpowered power plant. As the US came out of the 50s and 60s and the production of boats were reaching numbers never seen before, we gobbled them up. Good business for the manufacturers and many options made for affordable craft. A manufacturer could plan for the building of volume. Then something funny happened on the way to forum. Like people, markets evolve and mature. Fiberglass has a shelf life of...who really knows. What I do know is that it last a really long time if it's taken care of. Design features of the Jetsons gave way to more pragmatic design features and supply increased 10 fold, 100 fold, etc. Fast forward to 2014 and we arrive at a place in time where we have an extremely large inventory of fairly modern boats with very long useful lives that can bought at far lower prices than the manufacturers can compete against. So....the boat companies now build boats that are not in the supply line (larger boats for the most part) and can be considerably more valuable to their bottom line and can be "turned-on/turned-off", from a production standpoint, faster/more efficiently than smaller boats that need to be produced in quantity to derive the same profit. Lastly, if we add the changing demographics of the population, wealth and alternate forms of distraction for our spending dollars, we arrive where we are today. I'm sure I missed 100s of other factors, but I really prefer to accept this view as opposed to some nefarious undercurrent of the Have's/Have Not's or some politician. I'm not saying those fellas in Washington don't mess with every button they can get their hands on, but sometimes it's not that simple.
silentpardner	posted 01-07-2014 12:08 PM ET (US) Very well said and spot on in my opinion hauptjm!