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jimh posted 01-14-2014 02:10 PM ET (US)
In an article with the title BOATING FORECAST 2014, a recent issue of TradeOnly magazine carried a photograph with the following caption:
There is universal agreement that boating needs to attract more young people.
The photograph associated with the caption shows a younger boater at the helm of a small boat, while an older adult goes along for the ride. The boat, while not identified, appears to be a 13-foot Boston Whaler.
(Note: the illustration appears in the printed version, not in the on-line version.)
Hoosier posted 01-14-2014 03:34 PM ET (US)
This could turn into a very interesting thread. I think that there is a HUGE market for the 9.9 hp class boat, like the classic 13. Though most here would gag at putting 9.9 hp on one, it'd do fine as a starter boat that would get kids under the radar of most state operator regulations and bring back those glory days of kids spending all day on the water doing nothing put puttzing around.
ConB posted 01-14-2014 04:56 PM ET (US)
We in northern Michigan do have a few good youth programs.
But I do wonder if it makes up for those geezers getting out of boating.

http://www.tacsailing.org

http://northportsailing.org

If I was a kid again I think a Sea Doo would look pretty cool.
Con
jcdawg83 posted 01-15-2014 08:57 AM ET (US)
The key to getting younger people into boating is simple, lower cost of entry. The boat manufacturers have to find a way to sell an entry level runabout or fishing boat in the $10,000 range. Boats must be affordable enough that young people can pay for them without having to finance them for years and years. Used boats are an excellent way to introduce younger people to boating. Dealers need to encourage the sale of used boats to get these buyers into the boating world. As the young people age and their income increases, they will move up to new boats.
The current entry price point of around $20,000 eliminates huge numbers of young people from the boating market. There are too many other options vying for the leisure dollar for young people to see value in spending the same amount as a small car for a boat that will be used very little in the grand scheme of things.
Peter posted 01-15-2014 09:26 AM ET (US)
The obstacle to boating is not the price of new boats. There are plenty of used boats out there that range in price and quality that will get the job done if you have the desire to get out on a boat and aren't worried about what you are seen running around in (problem these days). In fact, although my income has grown and I have had means to buy new, I've never bought a new boat in my entire life.
I think the problem boating has is getting people hooked at a very early age. The problem it faces in doing that is boating has to compete with very structured activity schedules for kids that didn't exist 30+ years ago. Those structured activities don't include boating. Kids these days have very little downtime to putz around because their every waking moment seems to have an activity preplanned by the parents. That activity structure also spills over to the parents ability to have time to boat. It's happened to me. I used to be a 125+ hour per year boater. Now I'm down to 50 if I'm lucky and I downsized a couple of years ago in recognition of that decline.
Regarding costs, if you want a youngster about 8 to 10 years old to experience the feeling of freedom that boating offers and that will likely make them life long boaters, all you have to do is spend about $2K or less for an 8 foot inflatable with a 3 or 4 HP outboard motor and let them captain that around for a while, first with you in it and then by themselves when you have confidence in their abilities. That's how you get them hooked.
jimh posted 01-15-2014 09:41 AM ET (US)
Alexander Pope wrote a few centuries ago:
'Tis Education forms the common mind;
Just as the twig is bent the tree's inclined.
jcdawg83 posted 01-15-2014 10:29 AM ET (US)
Peter; excellent point about getting kids into boating. I agree that is a huge factor. Unfortunately, in our new Orwellian, Nanny State, if a kid was allowed to operate a power boat (gasp!) unattended by an adult, the parent would be thrown in jail and the kid would be taken away from the parent and placed in a home with suitably indoctrinated adults.
I think it's a chicken and egg thing. We need adults to boat so they can get their kids hooked on boating and we need kids to boat so they will grow up to be boating adults.
frontier posted 01-15-2014 10:29 AM ET (US)
An excellent, inexpensive way for young people to get started and involved in the boating hobby is with old outboards.
There were so many outboards produced from the early 1900's to the 1960's and many are still around. It's not uncommon to find an old, restorable outboard for $5 to $50. I saw 10 of them sold at a marine swap meet for $5 each.
Kids and adults learn a lot of life skills about buying, restoring, troubleshooting and selling. And they require little space to store.
The Antique Outboard Motor Club (AOMCI) is an incredible, well run organization, cheap to join, with excellent publications and events to help and inform about the hobby.
hauptjm posted 01-15-2014 11:34 AM ET (US)
Interesting thread.
My boys just got an old aluminum flat-boat for Christmas. It came with an operating 15hp Yamaha outboard. The hull is from 1974, the motor is from 1985 and the trailer is a vintage 1985 MagicTilt. The whole package cost $750.00
It needs paint (as does the motor), but otherwise operates fine. Motor starts on the first or second pull and the boats can reach speeds of 20-22 MPH, with me onboard.
My thought is that it will be a project that we'll work on together (repainting both hull and motor) and the boys (12 and 14) have a boat that's perfect exploring the marsh around our weekend home. They have had the advantage of growing up on my Whaler as well as racing sailboats from very early ages.
I think one does not have to spend a fortune to expose kids to the fun and experience of boating. Most children that have any interest, will respond accordingly.
The payoff to me has already happened: they took ME fishing over the holidays. All I had to do was step onto the boat and away they took me. They provisioned it with rods, ice chest, bait, etc. Didn't catch much, but that wasn't the point.
Peter posted 01-15-2014 11:42 AM ET (US)
I see relatively young kids (those who haven't had their lives scheduled to death) running inflatables at the anchorages that we frequent all the time. The authorities do not bother them unless they are creating problems, which I rarely ever see them do. On occasion one does have to remind them to watch their wake but that's part of their learning. They are usually better at minding their wake than some adults I see cruising into the anchorages throwing as big a wake as the possibly can.
Although some accuse our state as being among the Nanny States, I guess its less so than others.
2manyboats posted 01-15-2014 12:27 PM ET (US)
We boat , our daughter boats and was a collegiate all American Sailor at College of Charleston, our two grandchildren are boating. The 4 year old drives the smaller boats with one of us on board and kayaks also. We are helping our daughter look for an Optimist dingy to start the grandkids sailing before long. To help build their love for boating Pappy built them a play boat for the back yard, built it out of scraps from old projects. http://www.flickr.com/photos/eco-tours/sets/72157639804537924/
swist posted 01-15-2014 12:31 PM ET (US)
A factor keeping entry level costs too high is that there is an assumption on the part of everyone who caters to the boating industry (fuel, parts, supplies, accessories) that boaters are rich. Hence preposterous prices at places like West Marine, huge fuel uplifts at marinas well in excess of their added costs beyond a gas station's. Registration, insurance and other such fees kept high because the high-end boater has never pushed back.
So you could argue that what is pricing out entry-level boaters is non-entry-level boaters. Particularly those on the upper end who feel no price pressure at all.
K Albus posted 01-15-2014 12:39 PM ET (US)
I would venture to guess that only people in "universal agreement that boating needs to attract more young people" are manufacturers of boats and boating equipment.
I have a contrary view on the matter. I would like to see less people (young or old) getting into boating. Many of the areas where I go boating are already overcrowded. I really have no desire to see hordes of new, inexperienced boaters out on the water. In most cases, I would say the less boaters the better.
The barriers to entry for a new boater are not particularly high. Used boats can be purchased for as little a couple hundred dollars.
I am not excited about the prospect of the boating industry attempting to attract new young boaters by building flashier boats with louder stereos.
Spuds posted 01-15-2014 03:22 PM ET (US)
I don't see any shortage of young people on the water, except they are usually flying around dangerously on jet skis and not in 13' Whalers like years gone by.
jimh posted 01-16-2014 11:15 AM ET (US)
Another influence on the trend for boating to grow or not is the general access to the water that is available to average people. When I was a kid in the 1960's it was common to find weekly rental properties on the shore of most inland lakes in little camps or resorts, and an average-income family could rent a small cabin on a lake for a modest weekly rental fee. Today most shoreline property has been converted into very luxurious and ostentatious summer homes, and if you could find one of those big homes available for a weekly rental the cost of one week is ridiculous, sometimes $5,000 or more. An old-fashioned resort that we used to vacation at for a week every summer on Lake Leelanau in northern Michigan has been sold off, and all of their considerable frontage on the lake converted to private homes. Instead of 25 rustic cabins being rented out for the ten weeks of summer to 250 families, that shoreline is now privately enjoyed by just a few families who own the ten or 15 large homes located there today.
In the 1960's someone with a bit higher than average income might have a little rustic cabin "up North", maybe something they inherited from a grandparent, and if they weren't able to use it all summer--who could, as people worked 51-weeks per year back then-- they might rent it to friends for a nominal fee, maybe $100 for a week. Now those places have often been transformed into enormous summer homes that are not typically available as one-week rentals. There went most of the shoreline.
On some of the nicer lakes, the shoreline owners have actively tried to reduce public access to their lake by taking legal action against any sort of expansion of public facilities. An example of this was seen on Burt Lake. A county road that terminated at the lake was considered to be a public access point, and there was a boat ramp. The problem was there was not much room to park a boat trailer there. The State of Michigan tried to expand that access point by buying some adjoining property to make a parking lot. The home-owner association of the lakefront property owners took legal action against this use of the property, citing zoning restrictions. The case was litigated and the State of Michigan lost. Although they made an honest effort to expand public access to the lake, the State could not defeat the wealthy homeowners, who had plenty of money to spend on lawyers to keep their lake private.
I remember very fondly my summers as a kid in the 1960's and spending a week at a little rustic cottage up north on a nice lake. That is where I learned about the water, how to swim, how to fish, how to run a small boat. It is hard to duplicate that experience now.
A second problem is the lack of towing capacity in most modern cars. In the 1960's most any passenger car could tow a trailer carrying a typical 1960's trailer-boat. Now most passenger cars cannot tow any sort of boat trailer. If you want to trailer a boat around you need a specialized vehicle that has a decent tow rating. Your typical 2.0-liter front-wheel drive sedan of 2014 will have a tow rating of perhaps 1,000-lbs at best. It is not much of a tow vehicle compared to the 1962 Pontiac Catalina with 398-cubic-inch V8 engine we used to have.
Hilinercc posted 01-16-2014 01:55 PM ET (US)
I'm with Albus, I haven't really seen any real decline in "newbies" or anyone else on the water.
There still seems to be no shortage of families in 17 ft sterndrive bowriders, fenders hanging over the side, hamfist-shifting a 3.0 litre Alpha drive into submission at the ramp or public dock.
Although the ubiquitous 17' sterndrive runabout is giving way to the more contemporary fiberglass meatloaf pans (Carolina Skiff, Southern Skiff, etc) and the requisite 4 stroke 90hp OB.
In NC, you can still rent a hi-powered jet ski to a 12 year old kid. (might be illegal, but they still do it)
Has the summer holiday mayhem on the water at your ports of choice subsided at all over the years? Course not. That mob is as dependable as the tide.
Folks may not be buying boats like they did, due to the economy, But has anyone here seen any sort of decline in the boating populous? I haven't.
Peter posted 01-16-2014 02:49 PM ET (US)
The boat manufacturing industry is suffering from the fact that financing for luxury goods is much, much harder to get than it was during the bubble years.
If the size of our local boat show is any indication (about 1/3 the size it was during the bubble years), the general boating industry may still be in a depression.
pete r posted 01-16-2014 08:08 PM ET (US)
Boating in Aus has picked up a bit lately.
I have noticed that the boats are bigger and are more luxurious. I think this is because these days women have a greater influence when it comes to choosing the family boat.
For example, at our local yacht club women have been introduced to sailing and are teaming up to sail in charity events such as fight against breast cancer etc.
Surprisingly there has been a growing number of women now owning yachts and I must say they are a delight to be aboard. There is always plenty of nice snacks to pick at and the toilets on board don't stink.

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Author	Topic: Boating Forecast 2014
jimh	posted 01-14-2014 02:10 PM ET (US) In an article with the title BOATING FORECAST 2014, a recent issue of TradeOnly magazine carried a photograph with the following caption: There is universal agreement that boating needs to attract more young people. The photograph associated with the caption shows a younger boater at the helm of a small boat, while an older adult goes along for the ride. The boat, while not identified, appears to be a 13-foot Boston Whaler. (Note: the illustration appears in the printed version, not in the on-line version.)
Hoosier	posted 01-14-2014 03:34 PM ET (US) This could turn into a very interesting thread. I think that there is a HUGE market for the 9.9 hp class boat, like the classic 13. Though most here would gag at putting 9.9 hp on one, it'd do fine as a starter boat that would get kids under the radar of most state operator regulations and bring back those glory days of kids spending all day on the water doing nothing put puttzing around.
ConB	posted 01-14-2014 04:56 PM ET (US) We in northern Michigan do have a few good youth programs. But I do wonder if it makes up for those geezers getting out of boating. http://www.tacsailing.org http://northportsailing.org If I was a kid again I think a Sea Doo would look pretty cool. Con
jcdawg83	posted 01-15-2014 08:57 AM ET (US) The key to getting younger people into boating is simple, lower cost of entry. The boat manufacturers have to find a way to sell an entry level runabout or fishing boat in the $10,000 range. Boats must be affordable enough that young people can pay for them without having to finance them for years and years. Used boats are an excellent way to introduce younger people to boating. Dealers need to encourage the sale of used boats to get these buyers into the boating world. As the young people age and their income increases, they will move up to new boats. The current entry price point of around $20,000 eliminates huge numbers of young people from the boating market. There are too many other options vying for the leisure dollar for young people to see value in spending the same amount as a small car for a boat that will be used very little in the grand scheme of things.
Peter	posted 01-15-2014 09:26 AM ET (US) The obstacle to boating is not the price of new boats. There are plenty of used boats out there that range in price and quality that will get the job done if you have the desire to get out on a boat and aren't worried about what you are seen running around in (problem these days). In fact, although my income has grown and I have had means to buy new, I've never bought a new boat in my entire life. I think the problem boating has is getting people hooked at a very early age. The problem it faces in doing that is boating has to compete with very structured activity schedules for kids that didn't exist 30+ years ago. Those structured activities don't include boating. Kids these days have very little downtime to putz around because their every waking moment seems to have an activity preplanned by the parents. That activity structure also spills over to the parents ability to have time to boat. It's happened to me. I used to be a 125+ hour per year boater. Now I'm down to 50 if I'm lucky and I downsized a couple of years ago in recognition of that decline. Regarding costs, if you want a youngster about 8 to 10 years old to experience the feeling of freedom that boating offers and that will likely make them life long boaters, all you have to do is spend about $2K or less for an 8 foot inflatable with a 3 or 4 HP outboard motor and let them captain that around for a while, first with you in it and then by themselves when you have confidence in their abilities. That's how you get them hooked.
jimh	posted 01-15-2014 09:41 AM ET (US) Alexander Pope wrote a few centuries ago: 'Tis Education forms the common mind; Just as the twig is bent the tree's inclined.
jcdawg83	posted 01-15-2014 10:29 AM ET (US) Peter; excellent point about getting kids into boating. I agree that is a huge factor. Unfortunately, in our new Orwellian, Nanny State, if a kid was allowed to operate a power boat (gasp!) unattended by an adult, the parent would be thrown in jail and the kid would be taken away from the parent and placed in a home with suitably indoctrinated adults. I think it's a chicken and egg thing. We need adults to boat so they can get their kids hooked on boating and we need kids to boat so they will grow up to be boating adults.
frontier	posted 01-15-2014 10:29 AM ET (US) An excellent, inexpensive way for young people to get started and involved in the boating hobby is with old outboards. There were so many outboards produced from the early 1900's to the 1960's and many are still around. It's not uncommon to find an old, restorable outboard for $5 to $50. I saw 10 of them sold at a marine swap meet for $5 each. Kids and adults learn a lot of life skills about buying, restoring, troubleshooting and selling. And they require little space to store. The Antique Outboard Motor Club (AOMCI) is an incredible, well run organization, cheap to join, with excellent publications and events to help and inform about the hobby.
hauptjm	posted 01-15-2014 11:34 AM ET (US) Interesting thread. My boys just got an old aluminum flat-boat for Christmas. It came with an operating 15hp Yamaha outboard. The hull is from 1974, the motor is from 1985 and the trailer is a vintage 1985 MagicTilt. The whole package cost $750.00 It needs paint (as does the motor), but otherwise operates fine. Motor starts on the first or second pull and the boats can reach speeds of 20-22 MPH, with me onboard. My thought is that it will be a project that we'll work on together (repainting both hull and motor) and the boys (12 and 14) have a boat that's perfect exploring the marsh around our weekend home. They have had the advantage of growing up on my Whaler as well as racing sailboats from very early ages. I think one does not have to spend a fortune to expose kids to the fun and experience of boating. Most children that have any interest, will respond accordingly. The payoff to me has already happened: they took ME fishing over the holidays. All I had to do was step onto the boat and away they took me. They provisioned it with rods, ice chest, bait, etc. Didn't catch much, but that wasn't the point.
Peter	posted 01-15-2014 11:42 AM ET (US) I see relatively young kids (those who haven't had their lives scheduled to death) running inflatables at the anchorages that we frequent all the time. The authorities do not bother them unless they are creating problems, which I rarely ever see them do. On occasion one does have to remind them to watch their wake but that's part of their learning. They are usually better at minding their wake than some adults I see cruising into the anchorages throwing as big a wake as the possibly can. Although some accuse our state as being among the Nanny States, I guess its less so than others.
2manyboats	posted 01-15-2014 12:27 PM ET (US) We boat , our daughter boats and was a collegiate all American Sailor at College of Charleston, our two grandchildren are boating. The 4 year old drives the smaller boats with one of us on board and kayaks also. We are helping our daughter look for an Optimist dingy to start the grandkids sailing before long. To help build their love for boating Pappy built them a play boat for the back yard, built it out of scraps from old projects. http://www.flickr.com/photos/eco-tours/sets/72157639804537924/
swist	posted 01-15-2014 12:31 PM ET (US) A factor keeping entry level costs too high is that there is an assumption on the part of everyone who caters to the boating industry (fuel, parts, supplies, accessories) that boaters are rich. Hence preposterous prices at places like West Marine, huge fuel uplifts at marinas well in excess of their added costs beyond a gas station's. Registration, insurance and other such fees kept high because the high-end boater has never pushed back. So you could argue that what is pricing out entry-level boaters is non-entry-level boaters. Particularly those on the upper end who feel no price pressure at all.
K Albus	posted 01-15-2014 12:39 PM ET (US) I would venture to guess that only people in "universal agreement that boating needs to attract more young people" are manufacturers of boats and boating equipment. I have a contrary view on the matter. I would like to see less people (young or old) getting into boating. Many of the areas where I go boating are already overcrowded. I really have no desire to see hordes of new, inexperienced boaters out on the water. In most cases, I would say the less boaters the better. The barriers to entry for a new boater are not particularly high. Used boats can be purchased for as little a couple hundred dollars. I am not excited about the prospect of the boating industry attempting to attract new young boaters by building flashier boats with louder stereos.
Spuds	posted 01-15-2014 03:22 PM ET (US) I don't see any shortage of young people on the water, except they are usually flying around dangerously on jet skis and not in 13' Whalers like years gone by.
jimh	posted 01-16-2014 11:15 AM ET (US) Another influence on the trend for boating to grow or not is the general access to the water that is available to average people. When I was a kid in the 1960's it was common to find weekly rental properties on the shore of most inland lakes in little camps or resorts, and an average-income family could rent a small cabin on a lake for a modest weekly rental fee. Today most shoreline property has been converted into very luxurious and ostentatious summer homes, and if you could find one of those big homes available for a weekly rental the cost of one week is ridiculous, sometimes $5,000 or more. An old-fashioned resort that we used to vacation at for a week every summer on Lake Leelanau in northern Michigan has been sold off, and all of their considerable frontage on the lake converted to private homes. Instead of 25 rustic cabins being rented out for the ten weeks of summer to 250 families, that shoreline is now privately enjoyed by just a few families who own the ten or 15 large homes located there today. In the 1960's someone with a bit higher than average income might have a little rustic cabin "up North", maybe something they inherited from a grandparent, and if they weren't able to use it all summer--who could, as people worked 51-weeks per year back then-- they might rent it to friends for a nominal fee, maybe $100 for a week. Now those places have often been transformed into enormous summer homes that are not typically available as one-week rentals. There went most of the shoreline. On some of the nicer lakes, the shoreline owners have actively tried to reduce public access to their lake by taking legal action against any sort of expansion of public facilities. An example of this was seen on Burt Lake. A county road that terminated at the lake was considered to be a public access point, and there was a boat ramp. The problem was there was not much room to park a boat trailer there. The State of Michigan tried to expand that access point by buying some adjoining property to make a parking lot. The home-owner association of the lakefront property owners took legal action against this use of the property, citing zoning restrictions. The case was litigated and the State of Michigan lost. Although they made an honest effort to expand public access to the lake, the State could not defeat the wealthy homeowners, who had plenty of money to spend on lawyers to keep their lake private. I remember very fondly my summers as a kid in the 1960's and spending a week at a little rustic cottage up north on a nice lake. That is where I learned about the water, how to swim, how to fish, how to run a small boat. It is hard to duplicate that experience now. A second problem is the lack of towing capacity in most modern cars. In the 1960's most any passenger car could tow a trailer carrying a typical 1960's trailer-boat. Now most passenger cars cannot tow any sort of boat trailer. If you want to trailer a boat around you need a specialized vehicle that has a decent tow rating. Your typical 2.0-liter front-wheel drive sedan of 2014 will have a tow rating of perhaps 1,000-lbs at best. It is not much of a tow vehicle compared to the 1962 Pontiac Catalina with 398-cubic-inch V8 engine we used to have.
Hilinercc	posted 01-16-2014 01:55 PM ET (US) I'm with Albus, I haven't really seen any real decline in "newbies" or anyone else on the water. There still seems to be no shortage of families in 17 ft sterndrive bowriders, fenders hanging over the side, hamfist-shifting a 3.0 litre Alpha drive into submission at the ramp or public dock. Although the ubiquitous 17' sterndrive runabout is giving way to the more contemporary fiberglass meatloaf pans (Carolina Skiff, Southern Skiff, etc) and the requisite 4 stroke 90hp OB. In NC, you can still rent a hi-powered jet ski to a 12 year old kid. (might be illegal, but they still do it) Has the summer holiday mayhem on the water at your ports of choice subsided at all over the years? Course not. That mob is as dependable as the tide. Folks may not be buying boats like they did, due to the economy, But has anyone here seen any sort of decline in the boating populous? I haven't.
Peter	posted 01-16-2014 02:49 PM ET (US) The boat manufacturing industry is suffering from the fact that financing for luxury goods is much, much harder to get than it was during the bubble years. If the size of our local boat show is any indication (about 1/3 the size it was during the bubble years), the general boating industry may still be in a depression.
pete r	posted 01-16-2014 08:08 PM ET (US) Boating in Aus has picked up a bit lately. I have noticed that the boats are bigger and are more luxurious. I think this is because these days women have a greater influence when it comes to choosing the family boat. For example, at our local yacht club women have been introduced to sailing and are teaming up to sail in charity events such as fight against breast cancer etc. Surprisingly there has been a growing number of women now owning yachts and I must say they are a delight to be aboard. There is always plenty of nice snacks to pick at and the toilets on board don't stink.