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Author Topic:   The Classic Two-Cycle Outboard Still Lives

jimh posted 02-04-2014 05:02 PM ET (US)
I was recently in a tropical third-world country. Its waterways are at sea level, and its climate very mild. We took a long trip up and down a river, going first upstream about 25-miles and then returning. Our boat was a fiberglass panga, with a hull about 25-feet and a molded on engine bracket in a sort of Euro-transom fashion. The engine was a 200-HP Yamaha two-stroke-power-cycle outboard, which I believe must have been a carburetor engine.
I was very impressed with the way the engine started. It fired up with the turn of the key and ran smoothly without any warm up. Air temperature was around 80-degrees. The overnight low was probably 75-degrees. The engine exhaust did not produce any noticeable smoke. The engine ran beautifully.
The boat was loaded with tourists like us, perhaps 16 adults. The panga hull got right up on plane without any difficulty. This was also impressive. The panga hull was not very beamy, perhaps only 7-foot 6-inch beam. I think it had a bit of a v-hull, as the driver asked a few passengers to switch places to get the boat into an even static trim side-to-side. The ability of the single 200-HP two-stroke to get the boat onto plane with such a load of people was impressive.
I think the operation at sea level and in very warm air temperature contributed to the smooth running. The older two-stroke engines I am familiar with do not spring to life quite so easily on a 50-degree cold morning in the northern Great Lakes.
The tour operator who provided the boat had a fleet of them. The engines were all Yamaha. Out of about 20 boats, all the engines were two-strokes except for one four-stroke-power-cycle Yamaha. I think it was an F150 on a little bit smaller boat, rigged with rather fancy seats and only capable of taking about six passengers at most.
The tour boat stopped many times on the way upstream to point out various plants, animals, or sites of interest to the passengers. On the way back, it was full speed all the way, except for slowing down to no-wake when we encountered some locals fishing. We even got into a bit of a race with another tour boat. That boat was larger and had the same 200-HP engine. We jumped his wake and passed him. The river was very winding, and it reminded me of the Crooked River trip we take almost every year from Burt Lake to Alanson. There were lots of turns, which we took at high speed, the panga hull leaning into them with quite a tilt.
In all, it was a fun day on the water on an otherwise land vacation, and an impressive display of how well old technology two-stroke outboards can run when at sea level, in a warm climate, and run every day with lots of throttle.
OMCrobert posted 02-04-2014 06:07 PM ET (US)
In remote locations simplicity is king. I love the simplicity and reliability of carb two stroke outboards. The Yamaha Enduro line is the model of this. If I had my druthers, I would love a late 1980s 17 montauk with a pull cord start 55hp Yamaha Enduro. Two cylinders with a single carb and pull cord start.
It does not get more robust, simple and durable than that.
jimh posted 02-04-2014 07:42 PM ET (US)
If I lived in a third-world nation in the tropics, I might own a classic two-stroke outboard engine. But I actually live in the USA, where the EPA has rules, and I do most of my boating in latitudes that put me closer to the North Pole than to the Equator. But I can appreciate the qualities of the 1960's technology with some modern refinements that are embodied in those Yamaha engines.
Dave Sutton posted 02-04-2014 08:14 PM ET (US)
Sounds like Belieze? We did the same sort of river run there a few years back and it was Yamaha 2 strokes as well. Sinmple = good.
Dave
.
kwik_wurk posted 02-04-2014 09:52 PM ET (US)
Oddly, I was on the Zambezi river last year, and I counted an Etec, Opti, 4s Yami, 4S Merc and a I/O Merc. And this was south-central Africa! Quite frankly I was stunned. (I saw 2 other boats on the water during the 8+ hours I was on the river. Excluding the boats the charter outfit had.) -- But reason came down to expats, running businesses and not afraid to import these types of motors/boats, and just finding the engines is a task in itself. (Parts basically have to be special ordered and mailed and cost beau-coup bucks.)
jimh posted 02-05-2014 07:45 AM ET (US)
Dave--Good guess. We were on the New River in Belize. We took the boat from Orange Walk to the big lagoon at Lamanai.
Dave Sutton posted 02-05-2014 08:13 AM ET (US)
Nice place! I did a little touring in there after spending a week diving the barrier reef. Probably rode on the same boats. Interesting country. When you see Beleize City up close you realize why low-tech is the key to success there. "The Dogs of War" was filmed there, as it's the closest replication of The Congo east of West Africa. Lovely place, great diving on the reef.

Dave
.
Whaler27 posted 02-06-2014 11:06 AM ET (US)
My Whaler25 is still running twin Yamaha 200's circa 1984. Over 6000 hours on the motors and they run as well as the motors in your story.
The only bugger is the remote oil tank pump relay which the enduros do not have, they run on premix so even less issues to go wrong.
BQUICK posted 02-06-2014 03:04 PM ET (US)
Yeah carbs like warmer weather. My 89 Yamaha 200s fire right up if it's over 60 degrees but the colder it gets the harder it is to wake them up. But most of my boating is in the summer so it's a small price to pay for the simpler technology. If the carbs are right it runs like fuel injection. Instant starts and no smoke running 200-1 at idle and 50-1 at full throttle.....in the summer.
I was talking to a guy that I bought a NEW 1977 50 Merc from in Alaska and he said they love the injected 4 strokes in Alaska for their starting in cold weather but he was having issues with condensation in the oil since the oil never warmed up fully. And, no one wanted to change their oil in 20 degree or colder weather!
I can't imagine oil injection on a 2 stroke working too well in those temps either. Would have to use premix I would think.
Dave Sutton posted 02-06-2014 11:55 PM ET (US)
In a past and distant life I was Boating Coordinator at Palmer Station, Antarctica. I maintained all of the boats and engines used by the US Antarctic Research Program, and of course in those days all of the engines had carbs.
They all started first attempt, every time.
It's a matter of using them every day, and very little more than that. Our fuel quality was abysmal, yet they ran like champs.
They were all Evinrudes, in case anyone cares. We tried Mercs and they didn't even come close from a durability and reliability standpoint.

Dave
.
Whaler27 posted 02-07-2014 01:40 PM ET (US)
Yes my first Whaler an Outrage 18' circa 1985 was powered with an Evinrude VRO 140 v-4. That motor started first time every time except when the fuel/VRO pump went south. But that was thanks to methanol being added to fuel back then, it ate rubber parts for lunch.
jcdawg83 posted 02-07-2014 02:51 PM ET (US)
It seems to me the only real differences in the older two cycle, carb engines and the modern fuel or direct injection engines is; ease of starting and fuel economy. 35 years ago, we ran two stroke, carbed engines 30 miles offshore and more and never gave a thought to their reliability. The only issues back then were how long it took to start them in cold weather (and the ensuing cloud of white smoke when they did start in the cold) and the fuel consumption. We usually got between 2 and 3 mpg in the old days in a day of fishing in a 21' center console. Today, the engines start with the turn of the key, no smoke at all, and we average 4 to 5 mpg in a day of fishing.
I would love to find an early 90's Yamaha 90hp 3 cylinder engine with low hours in good condition to put on my Montauk. That might be one of the best engines ever built.
Peter posted 02-07-2014 04:10 PM ET (US)
There many reasons why the classic 2-stroke flourished during the non-emissions regulated era and still do in regions unconstrained by over zealous emissions regulators.
I had a 1985 OMC 140 V4 on one of my Outrage 18s. That low compression 140 V4 would even start dead cold on the first pull of the emergency starter rope if you got the rope wrapped correctly. That's not going to happen with a high compression, spark fires only every 180 degrees 140 HP 4-stroke.
Dave Sutton posted 02-07-2014 07:45 PM ET (US)
"I would love to find an early 90's Yamaha 90hp 3 cylinder engine with low hours in good condition to put on my Montauk. That might be one of the best engines ever built"

You can still find them new if you know where to look.
I think it's the best possible choice for a 'Tauk, and I wouldn't trade mine for anything, except "maybe" a 90 etec. Been absolutely reliable.

Dave
.
bkjones posted 02-08-2014 09:23 PM ET (US)
The original 1984 Johnson 90 was just taken off my 1985 17 Montauk this past week. It still fired on the first turn of the key and smoked very little. It still pushed the boat to 40+ MPH. The only reason I decided to part with it was I found a nearly new 2006 carb'd Johnson 2-stroke for a good price.
I figure the new motor will make the transom look a little better, but I did have quite the internal debate over whether or not to part with the original. The dealer that is taking it on trade said the power head still looked good to go.
The fact of the matter is that these carb'd 2 strokes are still used heavily in many parts of the world where the government isn't into everybody's business.
OMCrobert posted 02-09-2014 01:55 PM ET (US)
The cost advantage of the 2 stroke carb in the short run is a huge benefit. For some people the benefit makes it a clear winner. Sadly the EPA took away our choice.
jimh posted 02-10-2014 02:44 PM ET (US)
A sidebar discussion on outboard engine repair has been moved to REPAIRS/MODS.
martyn1075 posted 02-10-2014 08:07 PM ET (US)
Dave I recently found one of those [early 1990's Yamaha 90-HP three-cylinder classic two-stroke] engines on a 1991 17 Outrage for sale. Wouldn't that engine be underpowered for that model?
Martyn
jimh posted 02-10-2014 09:10 PM ET (US)
In the latest issue of WHALER magazine from Boston Whaler, an article extols the virtues of the Boston Whaler OUTRAGE 18 boat as used for a passage across the Arctic Ocean in c.1981. The article does not give the engines much mention at all, but in pictures you can see the outboards: twin 60-HP Evinrude [two]-cylinder two-stroke carburetor engines. I guess if there was enough reliability in 1981 to make a 3,500-mile crossing of the Northwest Passage, the technology of the classic two-cycle carburetor outboard was quite good, even in Arctic conditions.
Tom W Clark posted 02-10-2014 09:14 PM ET (US)
http://www.freezeframe.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/p2007-16-732-img.jpg
http://www.freezeframe.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/p2007-16-299-img.jpg
http://www.freezeframe.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/p2007-16-724-img.jpg
OMCrobert posted 02-10-2014 09:19 PM ET (US)
Those are 2 cylinder 60hp Evinrude outboards, not 3 cylinders. They were barely 60hp if that. Impressive that boat can run with such little power.
Tom W Clark posted 02-10-2014 09:23 PM ET (US)
Yes, they are two cylinder motors.
120 HP is 60 percent more than the classic Outrage 18's minimum power rating of 75 HP. You don't spend a lot of time at high speed in ice infested water.
jimh posted 02-10-2014 09:48 PM ET (US)
I am not a very good OMC historian.
Tom--Many thanks for contributing the hyperlinks to the images.
frontier posted 02-11-2014 09:23 AM ET (US)
"Ice infested water"?
Is there "Hammerhead Ice"?
I supposed you really have to watch out for the vicious "Great White Ice" :)
Peter posted 02-11-2014 09:27 AM ET (US)
Judging by the cowl graphics, those outboards look like they are 1980 or 1981 vintage. 4-stroke outboards would probably not do well in those condition because they wouldn't get hot enough to boil off the condensation in the oil. An no need to use any special 2-stroke oil suitable for cold weather because they were pre-mix not VRO.
The 747 cc 2-cylinder looper platform upon which those 60 HP motors were built was introduced about 1970 give or take a year so they had plenty of time to develop a reputation regarding reliability by 1981.
RMS posted 02-11-2014 09:37 AM ET (US)
Back in 1985 Al Grover took a 26' boat across the Atlantic Ocean. He had two 65 hp Evinrudes and a 9.9hp Evinrude for propulsion. Bob
Binkster posted 02-11-2014 10:16 AM ET (US)
What was the last year the 2 cyl. 60hp OMC was built. The last year for the 50hp version was 2005. I'm looking for either one for my 15 footer.
Al Grover was a crazy dude. Always looking for ways to advertise his business, (Al Grovers Marine Base, Freeport NY). I worked for him, part time, rigging boats when I was going to college in 1958/1959. When the V-4 50 hp Evinrude came out that year, we had to hump those things up on the transom by hand. He wouldn't buy a hoist. He was also a pioneer in offshore racing, and started the Around Long Island Marathon Race, also in 1959. He didn't stay around long as he sold Evinrudes, and the inline six Mercs ruled in those days. In the first race, I ran with his partner, George Bergmeister in a wooden 17' Thompson powered by a V4 50hp Evinrude. It was just a boatride.
rich
jimh posted 02-11-2014 10:21 AM ET (US)
I believe that OMC two-cylinder engine is still used in racing. I have seen them in action at a regatta on the lower Detroit River several times. It is funny to see guys racing with engine blocks and components made 25 years ago.
Tom W Clark posted 02-11-2014 11:11 AM ET (US)
Peter is correct. The motors were acquired from OMC in 1981. Here is excerpt from one account of the expedition:
As they had entered the mouth of the Yukon, they had been met and escorted in by a local Boston Whaler, an open 18-footer with a lot of freeboard and a reputation for being very good in rough water. The team’s experience with the inflatables, and their subsequent slow progress up-river led them to re-think their transport requirements, both as regards boats and engines. Ran telephoned urgently to Simon Grimes, who was still in Vancouver; some rapid negotiations took place. The American bankers Morgan Stanley came forward as new sponsors, and with their help an 18-ft. Boston Whaler called 'Outrage' was acquired and arrangements set in hand to get her up to Inuvik, where she became the 'Morgan Stanley'. Simultaneously, urgent negotiations were in hand with Outboard Marine, the manufacturers of Evinrude, for the supply of more powerful engines; and at Tanana, the next staging point after Galena, two 60-h.p. Evinrudes were made available by the Company’s representative there, Jake Birkett.
http://www.transglobe-expedition.org/page/the-arctic

http://www.transglobe-expedition.org//images/expedition/arctic/ speed-boat-lrg.jpg
http://www.freezeframe.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/p2007-16-251-img.jpg
http://www.freezeframe.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/p2007-16-721-img.jpg
OMCrobert posted 02-11-2014 01:17 PM ET (US)
Those 2 cylinder 60hp OMC's were rated at the crank instead of the prop. A mid 2000s Johnson 2 cylinder 50hp would be just as powerful and much more reliable.
Peter posted 02-12-2014 06:51 AM ET (US)
Q: "What was the last year the 2 cyl. 60hp OMC was built[?]".
A: 1984, which was the last year crank rated HP was used.
Tom W Clark posted 02-12-2014 09:25 AM ET (US)
Actually, OMC transitioned from crankshaft horsepower ratings to propeller shaft horsepower rating over three model years, 1984, 1985 and 1986.
Peter posted 02-12-2014 10:43 AM ET (US)
To clarify -- 1983 was the last year for crank ratings for ALL OMC outboards. 1984 was last year for the 2-cylinder looper.
Tom W Clark posted 02-12-2014 10:48 AM ET (US)
Nope. Check the service manuals.
I once went through an entire set of OMC factory service manuals spanning these years and was surprised to find that some models were prop shaft rated and some crank shaft rated during this period. By 1986 all OMC motors were prop shaft rated.
Peter posted 02-12-2014 11:15 AM ET (US)
Don't have access to an entire set of OMC service manuals so I'll take your word for it.
Dave Sutton posted 02-12-2014 10:33 PM ET (US)
Late back to the party, just drive from Edwards AFB in the Mojave back to Stuart Florida, 2700 miles in 6 days towing a trailer.
Anyhow: to the question above about the Yamaha 90 on a small outrage: yeah, it's considered a little small but I bet it would run fine. 'Tauks run very well on 70's, so 90 on a small outrage would probably work well on a boat that's kept light.
I have 100's of slides of us running in ice in Antarctica, when I get home in April I'll try to scan a few and post them.
We did make a 125 mile run to an Argentine station with two Mark-III Zodiacs, each with an Evinrude 25 on the transom, a second stowed aboard, extra props and shear pins, extra gas, and two guys per boat. It was hanging it out from a safety standpoint but we made it there and back and never needed a spare. Those were the days.
Dave
.
Peter posted 02-13-2014 07:08 AM ET (US)
I've spent many hours behind the wheel of a Montauk powered by the Yamaha 90. The Yamaha 90 is a great motor for the Montauk but I think with its low displacement, the Yamaha 90 would be marginal power on a 1991 Outrage 17. If one were going to limit themselves to 90 HP, the OMC cross-flow or loop charged V4s are a better choice because they have significantly greater displacement (69 cubic inches vs. 99 for the cross flow 90 and 105 for the looper 90).

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Author	Topic: The Classic Two-Cycle Outboard Still Lives
jimh	posted 02-04-2014 05:02 PM ET (US) I was recently in a tropical third-world country. Its waterways are at sea level, and its climate very mild. We took a long trip up and down a river, going first upstream about 25-miles and then returning. Our boat was a fiberglass panga, with a hull about 25-feet and a molded on engine bracket in a sort of Euro-transom fashion. The engine was a 200-HP Yamaha two-stroke-power-cycle outboard, which I believe must have been a carburetor engine. I was very impressed with the way the engine started. It fired up with the turn of the key and ran smoothly without any warm up. Air temperature was around 80-degrees. The overnight low was probably 75-degrees. The engine exhaust did not produce any noticeable smoke. The engine ran beautifully. The boat was loaded with tourists like us, perhaps 16 adults. The panga hull got right up on plane without any difficulty. This was also impressive. The panga hull was not very beamy, perhaps only 7-foot 6-inch beam. I think it had a bit of a v-hull, as the driver asked a few passengers to switch places to get the boat into an even static trim side-to-side. The ability of the single 200-HP two-stroke to get the boat onto plane with such a load of people was impressive. I think the operation at sea level and in very warm air temperature contributed to the smooth running. The older two-stroke engines I am familiar with do not spring to life quite so easily on a 50-degree cold morning in the northern Great Lakes. The tour operator who provided the boat had a fleet of them. The engines were all Yamaha. Out of about 20 boats, all the engines were two-strokes except for one four-stroke-power-cycle Yamaha. I think it was an F150 on a little bit smaller boat, rigged with rather fancy seats and only capable of taking about six passengers at most. The tour boat stopped many times on the way upstream to point out various plants, animals, or sites of interest to the passengers. On the way back, it was full speed all the way, except for slowing down to no-wake when we encountered some locals fishing. We even got into a bit of a race with another tour boat. That boat was larger and had the same 200-HP engine. We jumped his wake and passed him. The river was very winding, and it reminded me of the Crooked River trip we take almost every year from Burt Lake to Alanson. There were lots of turns, which we took at high speed, the panga hull leaning into them with quite a tilt. In all, it was a fun day on the water on an otherwise land vacation, and an impressive display of how well old technology two-stroke outboards can run when at sea level, in a warm climate, and run every day with lots of throttle.
OMCrobert	posted 02-04-2014 06:07 PM ET (US) In remote locations simplicity is king. I love the simplicity and reliability of carb two stroke outboards. The Yamaha Enduro line is the model of this. If I had my druthers, I would love a late 1980s 17 montauk with a pull cord start 55hp Yamaha Enduro. Two cylinders with a single carb and pull cord start. It does not get more robust, simple and durable than that.
jimh	posted 02-04-2014 07:42 PM ET (US) If I lived in a third-world nation in the tropics, I might own a classic two-stroke outboard engine. But I actually live in the USA, where the EPA has rules, and I do most of my boating in latitudes that put me closer to the North Pole than to the Equator. But I can appreciate the qualities of the 1960's technology with some modern refinements that are embodied in those Yamaha engines.
Dave Sutton	posted 02-04-2014 08:14 PM ET (US) Sounds like Belieze? We did the same sort of river run there a few years back and it was Yamaha 2 strokes as well. Sinmple = good. Dave .
kwik_wurk	posted 02-04-2014 09:52 PM ET (US) Oddly, I was on the Zambezi river last year, and I counted an Etec, Opti, 4s Yami, 4S Merc and a I/O Merc. And this was south-central Africa! Quite frankly I was stunned. (I saw 2 other boats on the water during the 8+ hours I was on the river. Excluding the boats the charter outfit had.) -- But reason came down to expats, running businesses and not afraid to import these types of motors/boats, and just finding the engines is a task in itself. (Parts basically have to be special ordered and mailed and cost beau-coup bucks.)
jimh	posted 02-05-2014 07:45 AM ET (US) Dave--Good guess. We were on the New River in Belize. We took the boat from Orange Walk to the big lagoon at Lamanai.
Dave Sutton	posted 02-05-2014 08:13 AM ET (US) Nice place! I did a little touring in there after spending a week diving the barrier reef. Probably rode on the same boats. Interesting country. When you see Beleize City up close you realize why low-tech is the key to success there. "The Dogs of War" was filmed there, as it's the closest replication of The Congo east of West Africa. Lovely place, great diving on the reef. Dave .
Whaler27	posted 02-06-2014 11:06 AM ET (US) My Whaler25 is still running twin Yamaha 200's circa 1984. Over 6000 hours on the motors and they run as well as the motors in your story. The only bugger is the remote oil tank pump relay which the enduros do not have, they run on premix so even less issues to go wrong.
BQUICK	posted 02-06-2014 03:04 PM ET (US) Yeah carbs like warmer weather. My 89 Yamaha 200s fire right up if it's over 60 degrees but the colder it gets the harder it is to wake them up. But most of my boating is in the summer so it's a small price to pay for the simpler technology. If the carbs are right it runs like fuel injection. Instant starts and no smoke running 200-1 at idle and 50-1 at full throttle.....in the summer. I was talking to a guy that I bought a NEW 1977 50 Merc from in Alaska and he said they love the injected 4 strokes in Alaska for their starting in cold weather but he was having issues with condensation in the oil since the oil never warmed up fully. And, no one wanted to change their oil in 20 degree or colder weather! I can't imagine oil injection on a 2 stroke working too well in those temps either. Would have to use premix I would think.
Dave Sutton	posted 02-06-2014 11:55 PM ET (US) In a past and distant life I was Boating Coordinator at Palmer Station, Antarctica. I maintained all of the boats and engines used by the US Antarctic Research Program, and of course in those days all of the engines had carbs. They all started first attempt, every time. It's a matter of using them every day, and very little more than that. Our fuel quality was abysmal, yet they ran like champs. They were all Evinrudes, in case anyone cares. We tried Mercs and they didn't even come close from a durability and reliability standpoint. Dave .
Whaler27	posted 02-07-2014 01:40 PM ET (US) Yes my first Whaler an Outrage 18' circa 1985 was powered with an Evinrude VRO 140 v-4. That motor started first time every time except when the fuel/VRO pump went south. But that was thanks to methanol being added to fuel back then, it ate rubber parts for lunch.
jcdawg83	posted 02-07-2014 02:51 PM ET (US) It seems to me the only real differences in the older two cycle, carb engines and the modern fuel or direct injection engines is; ease of starting and fuel economy. 35 years ago, we ran two stroke, carbed engines 30 miles offshore and more and never gave a thought to their reliability. The only issues back then were how long it took to start them in cold weather (and the ensuing cloud of white smoke when they did start in the cold) and the fuel consumption. We usually got between 2 and 3 mpg in the old days in a day of fishing in a 21' center console. Today, the engines start with the turn of the key, no smoke at all, and we average 4 to 5 mpg in a day of fishing. I would love to find an early 90's Yamaha 90hp 3 cylinder engine with low hours in good condition to put on my Montauk. That might be one of the best engines ever built.
Peter	posted 02-07-2014 04:10 PM ET (US) There many reasons why the classic 2-stroke flourished during the non-emissions regulated era and still do in regions unconstrained by over zealous emissions regulators. I had a 1985 OMC 140 V4 on one of my Outrage 18s. That low compression 140 V4 would even start dead cold on the first pull of the emergency starter rope if you got the rope wrapped correctly. That's not going to happen with a high compression, spark fires only every 180 degrees 140 HP 4-stroke.
Dave Sutton	posted 02-07-2014 07:45 PM ET (US) "I would love to find an early 90's Yamaha 90hp 3 cylinder engine with low hours in good condition to put on my Montauk. That might be one of the best engines ever built" You can still find them new if you know where to look. I think it's the best possible choice for a 'Tauk, and I wouldn't trade mine for anything, except "maybe" a 90 etec. Been absolutely reliable. Dave .
bkjones	posted 02-08-2014 09:23 PM ET (US) The original 1984 Johnson 90 was just taken off my 1985 17 Montauk this past week. It still fired on the first turn of the key and smoked very little. It still pushed the boat to 40+ MPH. The only reason I decided to part with it was I found a nearly new 2006 carb'd Johnson 2-stroke for a good price. I figure the new motor will make the transom look a little better, but I did have quite the internal debate over whether or not to part with the original. The dealer that is taking it on trade said the power head still looked good to go. The fact of the matter is that these carb'd 2 strokes are still used heavily in many parts of the world where the government isn't into everybody's business.
OMCrobert	posted 02-09-2014 01:55 PM ET (US) The cost advantage of the 2 stroke carb in the short run is a huge benefit. For some people the benefit makes it a clear winner. Sadly the EPA took away our choice.
jimh	posted 02-10-2014 02:44 PM ET (US) A sidebar discussion on outboard engine repair has been moved to REPAIRS/MODS.
martyn1075	posted 02-10-2014 08:07 PM ET (US) Dave I recently found one of those [early 1990's Yamaha 90-HP three-cylinder classic two-stroke] engines on a 1991 17 Outrage for sale. Wouldn't that engine be underpowered for that model? Martyn
jimh	posted 02-10-2014 09:10 PM ET (US) In the latest issue of WHALER magazine from Boston Whaler, an article extols the virtues of the Boston Whaler OUTRAGE 18 boat as used for a passage across the Arctic Ocean in c.1981. The article does not give the engines much mention at all, but in pictures you can see the outboards: twin 60-HP Evinrude [two]-cylinder two-stroke carburetor engines. I guess if there was enough reliability in 1981 to make a 3,500-mile crossing of the Northwest Passage, the technology of the classic two-cycle carburetor outboard was quite good, even in Arctic conditions.
Tom W Clark	posted 02-10-2014 09:14 PM ET (US) http://www.freezeframe.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/p2007-16-732-img.jpg http://www.freezeframe.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/p2007-16-299-img.jpg http://www.freezeframe.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/p2007-16-724-img.jpg
OMCrobert	posted 02-10-2014 09:19 PM ET (US) Those are 2 cylinder 60hp Evinrude outboards, not 3 cylinders. They were barely 60hp if that. Impressive that boat can run with such little power.
Tom W Clark	posted 02-10-2014 09:23 PM ET (US) Yes, they are two cylinder motors. 120 HP is 60 percent more than the classic Outrage 18's minimum power rating of 75 HP. You don't spend a lot of time at high speed in ice infested water.
jimh	posted 02-10-2014 09:48 PM ET (US) I am not a very good OMC historian. Tom--Many thanks for contributing the hyperlinks to the images.
frontier	posted 02-11-2014 09:23 AM ET (US) "Ice infested water"? Is there "Hammerhead Ice"? I supposed you really have to watch out for the vicious "Great White Ice" :)
Peter	posted 02-11-2014 09:27 AM ET (US) Judging by the cowl graphics, those outboards look like they are 1980 or 1981 vintage. 4-stroke outboards would probably not do well in those condition because they wouldn't get hot enough to boil off the condensation in the oil. An no need to use any special 2-stroke oil suitable for cold weather because they were pre-mix not VRO. The 747 cc 2-cylinder looper platform upon which those 60 HP motors were built was introduced about 1970 give or take a year so they had plenty of time to develop a reputation regarding reliability by 1981.
RMS	posted 02-11-2014 09:37 AM ET (US) Back in 1985 Al Grover took a 26' boat across the Atlantic Ocean. He had two 65 hp Evinrudes and a 9.9hp Evinrude for propulsion. Bob
Binkster	posted 02-11-2014 10:16 AM ET (US) What was the last year the 2 cyl. 60hp OMC was built. The last year for the 50hp version was 2005. I'm looking for either one for my 15 footer. Al Grover was a crazy dude. Always looking for ways to advertise his business, (Al Grovers Marine Base, Freeport NY). I worked for him, part time, rigging boats when I was going to college in 1958/1959. When the V-4 50 hp Evinrude came out that year, we had to hump those things up on the transom by hand. He wouldn't buy a hoist. He was also a pioneer in offshore racing, and started the Around Long Island Marathon Race, also in 1959. He didn't stay around long as he sold Evinrudes, and the inline six Mercs ruled in those days. In the first race, I ran with his partner, George Bergmeister in a wooden 17' Thompson powered by a V4 50hp Evinrude. It was just a boatride. rich
jimh	posted 02-11-2014 10:21 AM ET (US) I believe that OMC two-cylinder engine is still used in racing. I have seen them in action at a regatta on the lower Detroit River several times. It is funny to see guys racing with engine blocks and components made 25 years ago.
Tom W Clark	posted 02-11-2014 11:11 AM ET (US) Peter is correct. The motors were acquired from OMC in 1981. Here is excerpt from one account of the expedition: As they had entered the mouth of the Yukon, they had been met and escorted in by a local Boston Whaler, an open 18-footer with a lot of freeboard and a reputation for being very good in rough water. The team’s experience with the inflatables, and their subsequent slow progress up-river led them to re-think their transport requirements, both as regards boats and engines. Ran telephoned urgently to Simon Grimes, who was still in Vancouver; some rapid negotiations took place. The American bankers Morgan Stanley came forward as new sponsors, and with their help an 18-ft. Boston Whaler called 'Outrage' was acquired and arrangements set in hand to get her up to Inuvik, where she became the 'Morgan Stanley'. Simultaneously, urgent negotiations were in hand with Outboard Marine, the manufacturers of Evinrude, for the supply of more powerful engines; and at Tanana, the next staging point after Galena, two 60-h.p. Evinrudes were made available by the Company’s representative there, Jake Birkett. http://www.transglobe-expedition.org/page/the-arctic http://www.transglobe-expedition.org//images/expedition/arctic/ speed-boat-lrg.jpg http://www.freezeframe.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/p2007-16-251-img.jpg http://www.freezeframe.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/p2007-16-721-img.jpg
OMCrobert	posted 02-11-2014 01:17 PM ET (US) Those 2 cylinder 60hp OMC's were rated at the crank instead of the prop. A mid 2000s Johnson 2 cylinder 50hp would be just as powerful and much more reliable.
Peter	posted 02-12-2014 06:51 AM ET (US) Q: "What was the last year the 2 cyl. 60hp OMC was built[?]". A: 1984, which was the last year crank rated HP was used.
Tom W Clark	posted 02-12-2014 09:25 AM ET (US) Actually, OMC transitioned from crankshaft horsepower ratings to propeller shaft horsepower rating over three model years, 1984, 1985 and 1986.
Peter	posted 02-12-2014 10:43 AM ET (US) To clarify -- 1983 was the last year for crank ratings for ALL OMC outboards. 1984 was last year for the 2-cylinder looper.
Tom W Clark	posted 02-12-2014 10:48 AM ET (US) Nope. Check the service manuals. I once went through an entire set of OMC factory service manuals spanning these years and was surprised to find that some models were prop shaft rated and some crank shaft rated during this period. By 1986 all OMC motors were prop shaft rated.
Peter	posted 02-12-2014 11:15 AM ET (US) Don't have access to an entire set of OMC service manuals so I'll take your word for it.
Dave Sutton	posted 02-12-2014 10:33 PM ET (US) Late back to the party, just drive from Edwards AFB in the Mojave back to Stuart Florida, 2700 miles in 6 days towing a trailer. Anyhow: to the question above about the Yamaha 90 on a small outrage: yeah, it's considered a little small but I bet it would run fine. 'Tauks run very well on 70's, so 90 on a small outrage would probably work well on a boat that's kept light. I have 100's of slides of us running in ice in Antarctica, when I get home in April I'll try to scan a few and post them. We did make a 125 mile run to an Argentine station with two Mark-III Zodiacs, each with an Evinrude 25 on the transom, a second stowed aboard, extra props and shear pins, extra gas, and two guys per boat. It was hanging it out from a safety standpoint but we made it there and back and never needed a spare. Those were the days. Dave .
Peter	posted 02-13-2014 07:08 AM ET (US) I've spent many hours behind the wheel of a Montauk powered by the Yamaha 90. The Yamaha 90 is a great motor for the Montauk but I think with its low displacement, the Yamaha 90 would be marginal power on a 1991 Outrage 17. If one were going to limit themselves to 90 HP, the OMC cross-flow or loop charged V4s are a better choice because they have significantly greater displacement (69 cubic inches vs. 99 for the cross flow 90 and 105 for the looper 90).