posted 02-23-2014 08:43 PM ET (US)        

http://www.flashcardmachine.com/coast-guardbtmnew2013.html

posted 02-24-2014 07:30 AM ET (US)            

rich

posted 02-24-2014 08:45 AM ET (US)            

What's different now is that the AVERAGE "safety inspection" brings aboard a team of policemen wearing handcuffs, batons, guns, and all of the impedimentia that police carry. And more importantly, they bring the attitude of a cop with them.

Remember this script?

Scene: I'm standing on the dock taking lines, and have not been on a boat all day. "DHS Cops with Guns" show up in the parking lot, walk down, walk up to me, and it begins:

"Identify yourself"...

"Uhh... I'm just a guy standing on the dock"...

"Show us your ID"

"Uhh.... No. Not because I don't want to, I just don't have it with me. I walked here, and I don't carry my wallet when I'm on the water in a bathing suit".

"You don't have ID? Stand over there where we can see your hands while we run your name in the computer and we'll let you know when you can go".

<a half hour passes>

"If you don't show us ID we are going to place you into custody".

Really? For standing on the dock in Michigan tending lines on a nice afternoon?

So:

Guess who made me suspicious of the DHS "formerly a proud service" for life? Yup: If you're the Coastie who did that and you're reading this, it was you. My family served 4 generations in the USCG and it's preceeding organizations. My father was a 39 year Mustang Captain. Grandpop ran Higgins Boats in WW-II. Great Grandpop lost his life in a breeches buoy rescue. His father was on a church funxded lifesaving boat off the NJ coast in the late 1800's. I grew up in Cape May. And I despise what the Coast Guard has become. My ancestors would be ashamed of it. Mr Gun Carrying Boarding Officer... you should be ashamed of yourself.

Coastie: Print this and put it on the bulletin board of your station, and think about it before you next engage the public.

.

posted 02-24-2014 09:32 AM ET (US)            

We recently had a USCG rescue swimmer and an experienced pilot die in a helicopter crash in Mobile Bay during a training exercise. Rescuing people is dangerous work and injuries are common although deaths are, thankfully, unusual.

I believe it is unwise to place very young unseasoned men and women in the position of law enforcement officers. I would suggest a division of responsibilities within the USCG. Law enforcement in one sub-department and all other functions in the other. In order to serve in law enforcement a member should have served four years in the other sub-department in a very successful manner.

Just a thought.

posted 02-24-2014 09:42 AM ET (US)            

All that Garb they are wearing just separates them from the Human Beings, and that is not good.
Wearing Black uniforms the souh in summer would make you mean and angry at leat. If those you work for treat you this poorly, think about their attitude towards others in general. Those are not nice people.

Good Luck to the Human Beings!

posted 02-24-2014 07:33 PM ET (US)            

Which one? Islamorada? Cape May? Milwaukee? Point Judith? I spend months in each place every year. The one who harassed me is way up in Michigan, is noplace near me, and was many miles away from where the incident took place. I am sure that the DHS/Coast Guard up where this took place knows exactly who I am: When Jitka was boarded one year later their first question was "Is Dave Sutton on board". Who wants to bet that they read this forum?

No, I think I'll rely on the fact that the Supreme Court has already ruled that unless you are running a commercial boat, driving a car or flying an airplane (all of which require a license) none of us need to identify ourselves to any member of any law enforcement agency unless we are being investigated for a crime, and in those cases you must be so informed of the specific crime for which you are being investigated. You do not need to carry ID when recreational boating, and if the Coast Guard tries to detain you for not showing it in the absence of any suspicion of a crime, you have a great civil rights lawsuit case to file against them.

Basic rights 101: Your interaction with any LEO (law enforcement officer) boils down to one of two cases:

Are you free to go?

or

Are you being detained?

If the latter, it is the obligation of the LEO to inform you of the crime for which you are being held.

When you come into contact with a LEO, you are within your absolute rights to simply answer ANY question posed to you by a LEO with the following:

"Am I being detained or am I feee to go?"

If they state that you are free to go, leave. Note that they will generally not tell you that you are free to go unless you specifically ask. Unless you assert your rights, they will ask you questions all day. This is called a concensual contact, IE it is "voluntary" on your part. So make sure when you talk to a copn you know that you can leave anytime you like unless you are being detained.

If, after you ask, they say you are being detained, your reply is "for suspicion of what crime?"

If you get an ambuiguous answer, restate your question: "Am I being detained, or am I free to go?"

You do not need to answer any other questions. They can ask anything they like, but unless you are being detained formally you do not need to identify yourself to anyone.

Note that the DHS/Coast guard can ask for the papers for the BOAT, and you need to show them. You do NOT need to show papers for yourself. They can inspect the VESSEL. They can enter man sized spaces to see if other people are present. They can enter machinery spaces to inspect for leaks, oil in the bilge, etc. They cannot inspect areas where personal privacy is expected, unless they have developed legal propable cause to carry out a search. They have no rights to demand to inspect YOU and unless you are being detained under suspicion of a particular crime you do not need to identify yourself. In my case I was happy to tell them my name. I was not happy to be told that I needed to produce ID under threat of arrest.

In any event, between knowing the law, and having a good civil rights attorney on retainer, I'm not interested in walking into a place where I'm not welcome to socialize.

Watch this compilation of videos shot by a guy who knows his rights when confronted by INS inspections. Remember that we only have the rights that we assert. One of those rights is that we do not need to carry or show identification in our own country. To threaten me with detention for failure to display same was a violation of my rights, and I will never forget it.

Here's some interesting viewing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_3dDNPwJTU

and

http://www.flexyourrights.org/faqs/when-can-police-ask-for-id/

Enjoy,

Dave

.

posted 02-24-2014 08:45 PM ET (US)            

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_3dDNPwJTU

http://www.flexyourrights.org/faqs/when-can-police-ask-for-id/

your wellcome
rich

posted 02-24-2014 08:51 PM ET (US)            

Dave

posted 02-24-2014 10:36 PM ET (US)            

Thanks for the wake up call...

posted 02-25-2014 07:26 AM ET (US)            

Yes I know they go thru DHS schools, but the training for the law enforcement aspect of their job is superficial compared to what a State Trooper goes thru. Combine that with extraordinary search powers that other agencies would be immediately sued for (search without warrant) and you have a perfect storm of potential for abuse. It's frightening.

Dave

posted 02-25-2014 09:03 AM ET (US)            

The videos linked by Mr. Sutton were taken at DHS "checkpoints" which were wholly within the United States and did not involve any real or potential border crossing. Anytime you're boating in international border waters, the Coast Guard or any other law enforcement agency has the authority to demand identification and to inspect your vessel. Such vessel inspections are not limited to safety equipment or body-sized compartments. They can go through your boat with a fine-toothed comb.

Standing on a dock inside the United States is a different story.

posted 02-25-2014 11:39 AM ET (US)            

The govt wants to extend its power and control over us at all levels.

They want us to have no cash on hand, they want to track your movements and data usage and Internet searches, you cannot travel on roads , highways or waterways without being subject to stops and searches.

But the border is wide open if you want to make the journey into the country my family and friends fought to protect.

In our town they fired 25 police officers and hired 12 code enforcement officers, now the whole city lives under an HOA like rule of guard.

I was told I'm not doing my landscape reconstruction within "their timeframes" so they fined me. Since when does a municipality get to determine the speed of my gardening and hardscape. They also encourage citizens to "report on their neighbors!".

posted 02-25-2014 01:01 PM ET (US)            

Kevin has raised a question regarding identification and water borders. I need some clarification. Perhaps a few questions can clarify:

If I am operating my recreational boat, and I am stopped by any law enforcement agency, can I be compelled to produce identification? Does this change if I am on a body of water which borders another country, as, for example, Lake Huron?

If I am stopped by the U.S. Coast Guard, does the situation change? That is, does the USCG possess a greater power to compel identification of the passengers of a recreational boat?

posted 02-25-2014 02:07 PM ET (US)            

The USCG "powers" are extensive. But nothing says they have to be the bad guys in every situation. When boarding "mom & pop" recreational boats, as a Commanding Officer I could order the boardgin team to wear their Topsiders, be polite, compliment the owner on the condition of his boat, and to do their job. Yes, they were still required to carry side arms as it was USCG standing orders.

14 USC 89
(a)The Coast Guard may make inquiries, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests upon the high seas and waters over which the United States has jurisdiction, for the prevention, detection, and suppression of violations of laws of the United States. For such purposes, commissioned, warrant, and petty officers may at any time go on board of any vessel subject to the jurisdiction, or to the operation of any law, of the United States, address inquiries to those on board, examine the ship’s documents and papers, and examine, inspect, and search the vessel and use all necessary force to compel compliance. When from such inquiries, examination, inspection, or search it appears that a breach of the laws of the United States rendering a person liable to arrest is being, or has been committed, by any person, such person shall be arrested or, if escaping to shore, shall be immediately pursued and arrested on shore, or other lawful and appropriate action shall be taken; or, if it shall appear that a breach of the laws of the United States has been committed so as to render such vessel, or the merchandise, or any part thereof, on board of, or brought into the United States by, such vessel, liable to forfeiture, or so as to render such vessel liable to a fine or penalty and if necessary to secure such fine or penalty, such vessel or such merchandise, or both, shall be seized.

(b)The officers of the Coast Guard insofar as they are engaged, pursuant to the authority contained in this section, in enforcing any law of the United States shall:
(1)be deemed to be acting as agents of the particular executive department or independent establishment charged with the administration of the particular law; and

(2)be subject to all the rules and regulations promulgated by such department or independent establishment with respect to the enforcement of that law.

(c)The provisions of this section are in addition to any powers conferred by law upon such officers, and not in limitation of any powers conferred by law upon such officers, or any other officers of the United States.

posted 02-25-2014 08:54 PM ET (US)            

But not to those standing on a dock taking lines, who have not embarked on any vessel. And certainly not to threaten arrest of an individual finding himself being so addressed, for not having ID.

Dave

posted 02-26-2014 06:49 AM ET (US)            

A recruit is in boot camp and not on an active duty station yet. After graduation from boot camp he/she becomes Seaman Apprentice. The next step up is an easy one, becoming a Seaman. From there he/she can become a 3rd class Petty Officer in the field he/she has chosen, probably needs at least a year or more of active duty and a written test.
On jimh's favorite show on the Weather channel, there are four crewmen on the rescue helicopter, Pilot, Co Pilot, Flight Mechanic, and Rescue Swimmer. The Pilot and Copilot are commissioned officers and the Flight Mechanic and the Rescue Swimmer are non commissioned Petty officers. I haven't seen any Airmen(same as Seaman) as crewmen on the episodes I have watched, the Swimmer and Flight mechanic have been at least 3rd class petty Officers.
Not to stay off topic, but I find it interesting that the Coast Guard(Federal Government) will rescue you and give you a free ride in one of their helos if you are hurt and incapacitated deep in the woods of Alaska. They are not only a coastal or over water operation.

posted 02-26-2014 10:02 AM ET (US)            

Binster is correct. The new Seaman may come aboard but has no enforcement authority.

Also, up here in Alaska, due to the large size, the U.S. Air Force has SAR responsibilities for the Interior of the state and the U.S. Coast Guard has reponsibilty for coastal and ALL of Southeast Alaska (over 300 islands and the size of Florida). Though they sometimes overlap due to proximity to the case and expertise of the crews. USAF has inflight refueling capabilities for some of their helos, the USCG does not.

posted 02-28-2014 08:37 AM ET (US)            

Have any of you ever yourself served in the U.S. Military or worked as a law enforcement agent?

posted 02-28-2014 12:37 PM ET (US)            

quote:

---

I've never been a meteorologist but I can tell when someone is pissing on me and telling me it's raining.

---

That is a remarkably apt analogy in this case.

posted 02-28-2014 12:52 PM ET (US)            

I noted that the Homeland Security Agent or law enforcement agent (LEA) would often say something like:

"I would like you to shut off your car and open the trunk"

--or--

"I would like you to pull over to the secondary inspection lane."

The way the agent phrases their request seems to me to be framed in a very crafty manner. The naive interpretation of the way the request is made is perhaps for the motorist to consider that the LEA is just being polite, and is just asking for the motorist to comply with his lawful request in a polite and non-confrontational manner. But on closer scrutiny, it feels more like the LEA is asking the motorist to comply with his request without having any real authority to make the request, but the LEA intentionally cloaks the request in a sentence construction that leads to confusing interpretation.

For the average person, if a LEA says "I would like you to shut off your car and open the trunk," this is interpreted as a lawful command to comply with the law. However, we see in the candid recordings of the interviews that in every case, when the LEA is pressed to explain the legal basis of his request, it is eventually revealed there is there is no basis in law, and compliance is really voluntary.

posted 02-28-2014 01:13 PM ET (US)            

When performing boardings to check for compliance with federal regs we were always taught to never "request", but to "direct" the vessel/people to do something. The USC backed this up.

Never, "Request you heave-to and stand-by for a boarding team to check for compliance of federal regulations..." But, "Heave-to and stand-by for a boarding team..."

Never, "Request permission to come aboard." Just do it.

In both cases, what if the owner said, "No."?

posted 02-28-2014 10:13 PM ET (US)            

In federal court with the best civuil rights attorney I can afford. I've put away $10K in a fund for just the right rainy day, assuming it's raining the next time the DHS threatens me with arrest for standing on a dock taking lines.

Jimp, you might know now if you did not before that it only takes one instance of arrogant and ignorant abuse of an honest man to earn a lifetime of disrespect and contempt for the entire organization, and counsel your peers accordingly. I, for one, will never forget what happened to me, and will never look at the USCG again the way I did for the 5 decades previous. My grandfather lost his life in a breeches buoy rescue. I'm apparently a criminal for standing on the dock. What a contemptable disgrace.

Dave

posted 03-01-2014 06:48 AM ET (US)         

quote:

---

I've put away $10k in a fund.....

---

If your attorney is worth half his or her weight, better add another "0" to your fund; if you want a verdict and not just $$$$, double that figure....to start.

posted 03-01-2014 08:35 AM ET (US)            

Jimp noted:

"Police boats mounting 4-6 .30 cal machine guns?"

Not nearly as bad as "Routine Safety Inspections" of a small recreational boat being done by three boot-clad, gunbelt-wearing Coasties, marking my teak decks with their boot soles (it's a barefoot-required boat), and scratching my varnished cabinetry while squeezing past it with their police/combat equipment hanging out of each side of their gunbelt.

I'll take the machineguns on the police boats if given a chopice. At least I can refuse them boarding me without a warrent. The 4th Amendment of the Constitution actually applies to them.

"Mutual Respect" went out long ago. Now it's contempt of the Constitution on one hand and contempt of authority on the other. Respect is earned, not demanded. Ditto contempt.

I spent an hour yesterday aboard USCGC Ingram in Key West, sistership of Campbell, which my Dad served aboard, and of Duane and Bibb, both of which are now artificial reefs that I dove last week. What a proud ship with a proud history. To think that the USCG has devolved into the enemy of the recreational boater is even more a pity after seeing what the service once was.

Dave

.

posted 03-01-2014 10:18 AM ET (US)            

I sincerely hope you are successful in your effort. I doubt the outcome will be satisfactory but I hope it is.

I don't mind being boarded and searched. But, I do mind it if the boarding party is over sized and discourteous or disrespectful of my property by scuffing it up with combat boots or load bearing equipment (gun belts).

More and better training is needed. To the average LEA a boat is simply a piece of equipment or device used to get work done. To us our boats are beautiful possessions of great value which we somewhat mindlessly maintain to a very high level. I find it very difficult to believe that these young men and women are intentionally disrespectful of our property.

I don't know if it would have any effect if a boarding party was greeted by a "welcome aboard gentlemen, I have a couple of requests if you don't mind. Please try not to mark up my decks with your boots nor mar my cabinetry with your equipment, thank you". If nothing else it could generate a smile or two, or not. Who knows?

As to the problem with "I would like you to ..." perhaps a response like "I would like to comply with your request but I would like you to first explain to me the reason why you ask".

posted 03-01-2014 05:56 PM ET (US)            

The only answer I give to questions of that nature are: "I wish to leave. Unless you are formally detaining me, and giving me an order, I respectfully decline. Am I being detained, or am I free to go?".

Here's another set of nice video examples of how knowing your rights works:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjtDoKDIVIw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILqc0DMh84k

and a good read:

http://reason.com/archives/2013/12/28/americas-internal-checkpoints/print

We have those rights that we assert. No law enforcement officer is going to educate you on your rights. That's what civics classses are supposed to teach. Sadly... civic isn't something that most schools take very seriously when educating our young people. Educate yourself.

Dave

.

posted 03-01-2014 07:04 PM ET (US)            

We live in the present. Reality is what it is no matter how much we wish other wise. If your response works for you that's good.

I try to use the art of accomplishing what is possible. I don't want to be detained while a LEA checks in with his/her leader to ask what to next and how to handle this problem case.

LEA respond to confrontation with a very bad attitude. It makes them wonder why you have a "bad" attitude. Are you guilty of something or do you have something to hide, why are you treating me like this, I'm just doing my job the way I've been told to do it. Remember, they are doing things as they have been trained to do them. They may not have had any civics or have paid attention of they did. They simply don't care what you believe your rights to be. They are determined to complete their mission regardless of how you may feel about it.

What would you do in their shoes?

posted 03-01-2014 08:09 PM ET (US)            

Tough noogies.

Any LEO who's offended by the rights articulated in the bill of rights is in the wrong profession.

Video cameras are good tools though. IPhone, Gopro, etc... don't leave home without one. And if things go egg-shaped, don't forget to demand access to their own dash camera tapes.

Enjoy the following from a little town in NJ:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/police-dash-cam-video-exonerates-nj-man-implicates-cops-article-1.1701763

Dave

posted 03-01-2014 09:20 PM ET (US)            

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ police-dash-cam-video-exonerates-nj-man-implicates-cops-article-1. 1701763

posted 03-04-2014 07:40 AM ET (US)            

Of recreational boaters out on a nice day in a recreational boating area like Barnegat Bay, or Milwaukee Harbor, or Seattle Harbor?

(as opposed to the middle of the night hanfway betweeen Florida and the Bahamas?)

Uhh... no.

Every boarding case is *not* the same.

In fact, I am umable to find any reference from any open source on any use of force by any recreational boater being boarded for so-called "safety inspections".

I'm glad you're proud of your son. I was proud of my Father and Grandfather, who I knew, and my Great Grandfather and his father, all of whom served. It's the leadership of the DHS and those of the USCG that dictate weapon and boots for a mission that was done for decades previously in sneakers and a smile without incident that I am not proud of.

Segue, to add one small detail missing from my earlier recitations of my abuse: The boat that was being inspected for "safety" was displaying both a recent USCG Aux safety inspection sticker AND a Michigan Charter Boat License Inspection sticker. For anyone who knows about the Michigan sticker, it requires a full-up physical out-of-water inspection that is FAR more detailed than a USCG inspection for a 6 pack boat. Sea anchors, thru hull fittings, seacocks, first aid kit, etc., etc., etc... all checked.

The USCG boarding team didn't even know what the sticker meant when it was pointed out to them. Shame on their ignorance: Any boat displaying that sticker ought to be ignored.

Dave

posted 03-04-2014 08:11 AM ET (US)            

quote:

---

Coast Guard Missions

Pursuant to section 2 of Title 14, United States Code, the Coast Guard is responsible for 11 statutory missions:

1) Marine Safety: Enforce laws which prevent death, injury, and property loss in the marine environment.

2) Marine Environmental Protection: Enforce laws which deter the introduction of invasive species into the maritime environment, stop unauthorized ocean dumping, and prevent oil and chemical spills.

3) Search and Rescue: Search for, and provide aid to, people who are in distress or imminent danger.

4) Aids-to-Navigation: Mitigate the risk to safe navigation by providing and maintaining more than 51,000 buoys, beacons, lights, and other aids to mark channels and denote hazards.

5) Living Marine Resources: Enforce laws governing the conservation, management, and recovery of living marine resources, marine protected species, and the protection of National Marine Sanctuaries.

6) Ice Operations: Operate and maintain icebreaking resources for the United States.

7) Ports, Waterway, and Coastal Security: Ensure the security of vessels and the waters subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, as well as the ports and intermodal landside connections that comprise the Marine Transportation System.

8) Drug Interdiction: Stem the flow of illegal drugs into the United States.

9) Migrant Interdiction: Secure maritime borders and stem the flow via maritime routes of undocumented alien migration and human smuggling.

10) Defense Readiness: Maintain the training and capabilities necessary to immediately integrate with Department of Defense forces in both peacetime operations and during times of war.

11) Other Law Enforcement: Enforcement of international treaties, including the prevention of illegal fishing in international waters and the dumping of plastics and other marine debris.

---

posted 03-04-2014 08:31 AM ET (US)            

quote:

---

Marine Safety

The focus of the USCG's marine safety mission is the prevention ofdeaths, injuries, and property loss. Marine safety responsibilities Include ensuring the safe and environmentally sound operation of millions of recreational vessels and thousands of u.s. flagged commercial vessels. The USCG develops and enforcesFederal marine safety regulations, certifies and provides credentials to more than 218,000 mariners, investigates commercial marine casualties and shares its findings, and conducts compulsory inspections as well as voluntary safety exams.

---

Source: http://www.oig.dhs.gov/assets/Mgmt/2013/OIG_13-122_Sep13.pdf

That last sentence has interesting wording: "...conducts compulsory inspections as well as voluntary safety exams."

To measure the performance of the USCG in meeting its statutory missions for marine safety, the number of reported incidents of recreational boats involving deaths and injuries is tracked. The data shows:

Deaths or Injuries in Reported Incidents Involving Recreational Boats

FY2007 = 4,249
FY2008 = 4,070
FY2009 = 4,038
FY2010 = 3,959
FY2011 = 3,904
FY2012 = 3,792

Source: Op. Cit.

posted 03-04-2014 08:56 AM ET (US)            

To give "some" credit to the Coasties, I was in the Harbor of Refuge on Point Judity RI a few years ago on my 42 foot Trawler steering a figure 8 course to do an autopilot calibration routine. The local USCG station boat came and intercepted us, and wanted to do a safety inspection. I told them on 22A that I was doing compass swings, had a paid electronuics tech on board being paid by the hour, and asked for them to delay their boarding to allow me to complete the tests and calibrations. They said "see ya later" and left.

In any event, I think that the USCG is taking statistical credit for work done by the Aux, without offering full value and merit to seeing those Aux stickers showing that a voluntary inspection has been performed within the last year.

Dave

.

posted 03-04-2014 10:27 AM ET (US)            

Several years ago I asked some USCG crew attached to a small boat to please conduct a safety inspection of my boat at the dock. We were both attending a sponsored hospitality event, and the Coasties were there, I presume, to "show the flag." I asked them if they would inspect my vessel at the dock and give me a boarding report. Theyinitially refused. I persisted. They warned me that if they did a safety check and found anything non-compliant they would issue me some sort of citation. I was confident my vessel was compliant, so I persisted. Eventually, they agreed. They boarded and inspected my boat at the dock. My vessel was compliant. They gave me a boarding report copy. This later came in handy when I was stopped a few weeks afterwards, many miles offshore on a mid-week day, and asked if my vessel had been recently boarded and inspected. I showed my boarding report and avoided being stopped for an inspection at that time.

I thought it was odd that the basis for the voluntary inspection was to be subject to the peril of being cited for infractions. This leads me to ask:

posted 03-04-2014 11:35 AM ET (US)            

The discretion is there... that's really all you can say about that. Just like a police patrol car pulling you over. It's not talked about, and it doesn't always happen. But Coasties and police officers are people. If you're nice, they're usually nice. If you're a jerk, guess what? If they let you go, are they doing their job? Can't answer that.

Years ago while patroling a 24-hour halibut "opener" south of the Alaska Peninsula (the openers used to be 24- or 48-hour openings before going to IFQs) we came upon a fishing boat that was short 1 survival suit. My standing orders were to "terminate" the boat - take him back to port; port was 60 miles away - 6 hours steaming each way, 12 hours out of a 24 hour opener when this guy had to make his money. Nothing special about the guy, but my orders were to also spend my time on the "grounds" and not get stuck escorting some guy for 6-hours and then come 6-hours back. I had more than my required survival suits on board so I told my boarding officer to give the F/V a choice: 1) get terminated, get escorted to port, and miss most of your fishing window; or 2) take a "loaner" survival suit from me, continue fishing, buy a new survival suit upon return to port, mail mine back immediately with a copy of the receipt from the new one. He chose "2" and we received our survival suit back with the receipt and a thank you note.

Doesn't always happen that way.

posted 03-04-2014 02:05 PM ET (US)            

We can see Canada from where we were boating. I figure the USCG is just doing thier job of border security using inspections as a tool.

posted 03-04-2014 06:17 PM ET (US)            

With your background, I'd appreciate your comments on what USCG policy is regarding the way I was treated for not being able to display ID when requested, bearing in mind that there is no federal law requiring citizens to carry ID or to identify themselves unless being detained under suspicion of a particular and specific crime.

Offer advice for:

(A) a non-boater standing on the dock, as I was.

(B) a boater operating a vessel without his wallet aboard. Let's assume that it is a state where no boater safety course card is required to be in the posession of the boater.

C) a passenger aboard a vessel, who has left his wallet ashore.

Thanks,

Dave

posted 03-04-2014 06:55 PM ET (US)            

No idea on current policy as I've been retired for 14 years. But common sense should prevail. Advice? Not really, my opinion maybe. Starting with your comment: "no federal law requiring citizens to carry ID or to identify themselves unless being detained under suspicion of a particular and specific crime." I haven't researched that statement.

Your questions:

(A) a non-boater standing on the dock, as you were. A small boat harbor - If not required, shouldn't need it. What if you were a jogger and jogged to the boat harbor because you like boats, do you carry a wallet while jogging or ID? I never did. But if you jog to a MARSEC (Maritime Security) Zone around port facilities and cruiseships - you should have it.

(B) a boater operating a vessel without his wallet aboard. Let's assume that it is a state where no boater safety course card is required to be in the possession of the boater. Kids waterskiing in bathing suits like I did growing up? Never carried a wallet - we had to wade out to the boat in chest deep water. Wind/kite surfers wearing a bathing suit? Swimming? Don't think so - not reasonable. Fully clothed on the dock? Probably reasonable that you would have a wallet with you, myabe not. Do you have to show it? It's up to you. Show it, they leave. Don't show it, the questions begin.

C) a passenger aboard a vessel, who has left his wallet ashore. Should be no problem.

posted 03-04-2014 07:59 PM ET (US)            

Yet I was threatened with arrest for not producing ID while tending lines. I'm now kicking myself for not calling the station skipper the next day and asking some hard questions. I won't make that error again.

Dave

.

posted 03-04-2014 08:13 PM ET (US)            

Never hesitate to call the station CO/OinC, they shouldn't mind hearing from you. A majority of young Coasties are out there trying to do the best they can with the training they've been provided. If they're wrong, lets make sure they get it right for the next guy.

posted 03-05-2014 07:33 PM ET (US)            

"Never hesitate to call the station CO/OinC, they shouldn't mind hearing from you."

The former USCG Station Islamorada Commander Dennis Zecca has a lot of free time on his hands to correspond with you, particularly after 03/25/2014.

Federal officials have offered no motive as to why Zecca allegedly agreed to pay an informant to kill Schmitt.

Prosecutors agreed to drop two cocaine distribution charges and one gun-related charge in exchange for a guilty plea on the murder-for-hire charge against Zecca, according to court documents.

The murder-for-hire allegation carries a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison and fines up to $250,000.

Sentencing before U.S. District Court Judge Jose E. Martinez remains tentatively scheduled for March 25 at the federal courthouse in Key West.

Zecca agreed to give authorities a "full, accurate and complete" picture of all the circumstances surrounding the case as part of his plea agreement, according to court records.

He is really chatting it up these days and probably knows quite a bit about his "rights".

posted 03-05-2014 09:21 PM ET (US)            

Too funny. I bought fuel right across the canal from that station a few days ago on my way to Key West (where I'm at anchor now waiting out a blow before heading to the Dry Tortugas for a bit).

Coke, Guns, and murder for hire. Busy guy!

Willie

posted 03-06-2014 08:29 PM ET (US)            

quote:

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Try Massachusetts on the water in the woods on the street on the road in the city at the airport everywhere you go you are accosted by guys that look like they are invading Poland. The constitution and the bill of rights are dead here! I wanted to cry last Fourth of July Boston was a ghost town except police boats cg environmental police etc etc and on my ride back down the coast police swarming the beaches thumping heads we are in serious trouble. :(

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posted 03-07-2014 01:09 PM ET (US)            

The Canadian Coast Guard seems to remember that "service before self" is the rule to aspire to. It's "Public Service" rather than "The Public Serves Us".

Dave

posted 03-09-2014 07:53 AM ET (US)            

My Great Grandfather was George P. Sutton, and I don't see him listed. I'll get a letter in to the historical center asking why. He lived on the west side of the bay between Seaville NJ and the barrier island offshore that now has Sea Isle City NJ on it, where his surfboat station was located. He was a farmer, boat builder, and Coast Guardsman (Life Saving Service at that time). He was off duty when he saw distress rockets over the beach. This was during a Noreaster, and although he normally rowed across the bay to join the station crew, the bay was so rough that he couldn't cross by boat. He walked to the railroad trestle crossing the bay and crossed on foot. The water was so high that the entire thing was a foot underwater, yet he managed to get across and get to the surfboat station soaked thru with salt water and half frozen. The boat crew was already up the beach with the Lyle gun and breeches buoy gear working the wreck, and my Great Grandfather never joined them. When they got back to the station they found my Great Grandfather dead on the floor of the station, still in his oilcloths, obviously overcome by the work trying to get to his station.

This is all oral history passed on by my own Grandfather, who remembered it, and my Grandmother, who also remembered it, as well as his widow, my Great Grandmother, who spome of it often (she survived into the 50's, and although I never met her, she recited the story to my Father and Mother many times, and so I heard it second hand thru them as a matter of course during my entire childhood). I have a large number of photographs of him and the surfboats, as well as letters and a few other objects from his service.

I need to pass this all back to the USCG historical guys, as obviously it either was not found, or not categorized as something they put on the list. Guessing an oversight, but their historical records are fairly complete and ought to include the log entries of the day at the station.

Family members in order of service:

Alexander Sutton, my Great-Great Grandfather. He was a crewmember of the Surfboat NEW JERSEY, which was a privately funded surfboat back before there was a federalized life saving service present in southern NJ.

George P Sutton, my Great Grandfather, whos service is recited above.

His son, Arthur V Sutton, my Grandfather, who served in France in WW-I and served in the USCG in WW-II. Interesting segue: When I was a kid I fished with him out of an old converted lifeboat that he had dragged out of the surf after the torpedoing of the Lemuel Burrows, lost to U-404 off Atlantic City. He often told about finding the boat capsized and towing it to the Coast Guard station where it was righted and found to contain the body of a drowned sailor, trapped under it by his lifejacket to drown. Just last year I was reading a book by Gary Gentile about U Boat warfare and he cited this same story, having found a record in the national archives war records of the Coast Guard. So the records do exist still. I've dived the Lemuel Burrows many times and it's an interesting part of the intertwining story of the sea and it's men.

My father, George L Sutton, who was in prep school for the USCG academy in 1944, and who resigned his acceptance to the academy to enlist and see action before the war ended. He went in as an E-1, served on the USN owned, USCG crewed Patrol Frigate (PF) ORANGE in the Pacific, stayed in postwar, managed to get an Education at NYU in New York City in the 50's while serving on overners Island, ockaway Beach, and Sandy Hook, and received a direct comission to JG I guess he would have been the oldest ensign in the coast guard) and then went thru the officer ranks to retire as Captain, with his final duty as Deputy Captain of the Port, NY.

All four of them are buried at the Methodist Cemetery in Seaville NJ.

Thanks for the lead on the website. I'll compose a letter and see if the oversight of George 's death was deliberate or an oversight.

Dave

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posted 03-09-2014 07:59 AM ET (US)            

It does spur me to want to write the historical branch to get his service records, so that after I am gone the history can stay in my family. Thanks for the link to the page.

Dave

posted 03-09-2014 09:57 AM ET (US)            

As to the abuse of power being discussed, there is one overbearing consideration not mentioned.
This country has developed two attitudes.
Shoot the messenger.
Blame someone. (Anyone)

When we ask for some discretion or tolerance, today we are asking for the person in charge to risk being blamed for any and everything that happens that might be related to that tolerance. "The officer said it was OK".

I can almost hear the screaming because the officer loaned an imersion suit to one boat and they did not loan one to my brother and he died.

Basically too many finger pointers and Trial Lawyers and those that will hire them.
Basically a societal refusal to accept that we are responsible for us.
Of course there is greed in much of this blame.

In addition, there are thousands of local police out there that know what they want of laws, and really do not want to be challenged.
I have not had any problems with any. Locals here are good to deal with, but my exposure is significantly less.

What makes me sad is the division of what I call Human Beings and Law Enforcement. All the black garb and iron injected into a peaceful part of life.
I know the boating scene has changed in some locations, but mostly it is peaceful.

posted 03-09-2014 04:10 PM ET (US)            

http://www.uscg.mil/history/CoastGuardPeople.asp

You just have to scroll down a bit to find them.

posted 03-09-2014 10:04 PM ET (US)            

Scrolling quickly down the causes of death, I find that most of the deaths were caused by small boat accidents, I also find that other causes of death are listed,

tour of district
at least 3 killed by lightning
during physical exam
accident at station
fell from horse
killed by train