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Author Topic:   Florida Law on Trailering

contender posted 04-04-2014 05:37 PM ET (US)
I ran into a friend of mine that lives down in the Florida Keys, He told me that police, troopers, and marine patrols, right now, are giving out warnings for towing your boat with the engine tilted up. If the engine is being towed and the engine is in the tilted position, the new requirement is to have a red flag tied to the propeller and around the lower unit. The officer told my friend soon they will be issuing tickets for this offense. He did not give a starting date. Can a law be only required in one part or county of the state of Florida? Or, is this going to be a Florida state-wide new boating requirement?
Chuck Tribolet posted 04-05-2014 03:14 AM ET (US)
I wonder if this is a new regulation or just enforcement of the existing regulation about how far cargo can project beyond the vehicle.
Note: in California, these would be regulations (passed the Motor Vehicle Commission) rather than laws (passed by the legislature).
Chuck
jimh posted 04-05-2014 08:04 AM ET (US)
If someone has received a warning for possible violation of a law, the warning should include a citation of the exact section of the regulations being violated.
wezie posted 04-05-2014 08:53 AM ET (US)
Sounds like the afterbirth from a traffic incident!
What is the "vehicle"?
From the "vehicle" how far behind can an object extend?
Once it is all defined, if enforced, this will become a pain for all.
Take a look at the distance your boat and engine extends from the end of the trailer!
fishgutz posted 04-05-2014 09:08 AM ET (US)
http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/316.228
Looks like 4 feet is the limit. Beyond that you need a red flag. Usually the rear of a vehicle or trailer is the tail lights.
My boat and trailer are compliant as I have my transom only an inch or two past the tail lights and with the motor all the way up I'm at less than 3 feet.
I have seen lots of trailers that exceed the 4 foot limit when the motor is tilted up.
fishgutz posted 04-05-2014 09:28 AM ET (US)
http://www.uscargocontrol.com/Vehicle-and-Driver-Safety-Supplies/ Flags-Banners-and-Signs
Explained at the bottom of this webpage. Their explanation pertains to commercial vehicle but most likely applies to boats, too.
dfmcintyre posted 04-05-2014 10:27 AM ET (US)
Question:
In Florida, is a trailer considered a "vehicle"?
Chuck Tribolet posted 04-05-2014 11:48 AM ET (US)
The trailer would be a vehicle in California. Also four
feet here. Red flag (day) or two red lights (night) required.
Chuck
jimh posted 04-05-2014 01:27 PM ET (US)
I better measure my Whaler Drive and engine overhang. I bet it is more than four feet behind the trailer's rear lights.
Whalrman posted 04-05-2014 05:31 PM ET (US)
The Keys are a special place , as we all know. There is only one way in and out, by car/truck, that I know of, and if there is a collision/accident there is serious traffic trouble. From what I understand the LEO's that have that duty down there take it seriously and hold everyone to keep it safe. Brakes on trailers, boat or others that actually have brakes and actually work, lights on same and tow vehicle that work etc. etc. I'm going to ask our local LEO's, and state, FWC, marine, there take on this.
fishgutz posted 04-05-2014 07:30 PM ET (US)
A trailer in Florida is registered as a vehicle and has a Florida tag. It is separate from the boat and motor and even with my insurance it is insured with my automobiles not with the boat.
fishgutz posted 04-05-2014 07:35 PM ET (US)
http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/316.003
A trailer is defined as a vehicle: 316.003 #58
fishgutz posted 04-05-2014 07:36 PM ET (US)
316.003 #75 also.
pete r posted 04-06-2014 12:40 AM ET (US)
That rule is fast gaining popularity here too.
However, I attempt to have my motor up a little for fear I may forget it's down when ever I need to reverse into a driveway or up an incline to get around a tight roadway.
These days most are aware of 'being seen' in the work place yards etc.
It's now common to see a prop wrapped in one of those fluoro work vests.
Most boat shops sell a proper fit fluoro flag to do the job.
Either way I think they do a great job of warning following vehicles.

Jefecinco posted 04-06-2014 10:40 AM ET (US)
After reading this thread I went outside and tilted my Verado to the travel position. When resting on the travel lever it is almost horizontal to the ground and pokes back for most of it's length.
The good part is that the lower unit is higher than almost any vehicle front end except for a van, so it's far more likely the transom would be hit in a rear end accident and the engine would be untouched.
The distance to the tip of the skeg is under four feet but I'm going to get a "red flag" or equivalent just to provide another layer of protection.
Butch
home Aside posted 04-06-2014 04:22 PM ET (US)
Generally, each state has their own Motor Vehicle Code/Regulations, although I would imagine they are probably pretty uniform state to state.
That being said, it would be prudent for people to be familiar with the Codes for the states they live in and states they travel to....
It may be a pain in the rear to have to hang a flag or additional light on the rear of your motor when tilted up, but if it alerts other driver's it's better than the repair bill.
I have had my had by engine run into by another vehicle, I was lucky in two ways, the only thing damaged was my prop, and the driver that hit it was my mother....luckily she was just backing out of her driveway slowly and hit it straight on. I don't know that a red flag would have prevented it. The skeg and prop did a hell of a lot more damage to my parents new Chrysler Mini-van than it did to my boat motor...
Pat
contender posted 04-06-2014 06:56 PM ET (US)
Here is another though, when I rebuilt my 2 whalers last year I also undated the trailers as well (new rollers, bunks, covers checked and re-grease the bearing, etc.) One thing I did (not knowing about this new law) was I made my bunks longer then they needed to be, and they stick out about 2 inches passed the transom of the boat. So now this being the end of my vehicle/trailer is this not were they will have to measure from?

Jefecinco posted 04-06-2014 07:30 PM ET (US)
Contender,
Maybe so or maybe no. To be on the safe side with the LEOs I would expect them to measure from the lens of the stop light. As I said a couple of posts ago, to be safe, as opposed to being legal, I'll be using a flag tied to my propeller even thought our Alabama law may not require it. I don't want some dummy to bang into my rig because I didn't have a flag. If I get hit at least I'll know there was not much else I could have done.
Butch
fishgutz posted 04-06-2014 08:27 PM ET (US)
Contender, I am still trying to find the statute but the rear of a vehicle is (usually) defined as what can be seen at night from the rear, which is the taillights. This is what has been explained to me by law enforcement officers in Wisconsin and in Florida.
Maybe next time I see a county sheriff in a donut shop I'll ask what the actual statute is.
fishgutz posted 04-06-2014 08:47 PM ET (US)
Here is a quote form an officer: "Whenever the load upon any vehicle extends, or whenever any integral part of any vehicle projects, to the rear 4 feet or more beyond the rear of the vehicle, as measured from the tail lamps, there shall be displayed at the extreme end of the load or projecting part of the vehicle during darkness, in addition to the required tail lamp, two red lights with a bulb rated not in excess of six candlepower plainly visible from a distance of at least 500 feet to the sides and rear. At any other time there shall be displayed at the extreme end of the load or projecting part of the vehicle a solid red or fluorescent orange flag or cloth not less than 12 inches square."
http://www.redding.com/news/2010/jan/23/ coptalk-how-much-canoe-can-hang-over-the-back-of/
daveweight posted 04-07-2014 05:31 AM ET (US)
This is what we have been using in the UK for a long time, it also stops me from walking into the outboard at the end of a days fishing/boating when I am normally tired and stupid. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Small-size-Outboard-motor-propeller-bag-/ 121313686429
Dave Weight
PeteB88 posted 04-07-2014 01:29 PM ET (US)
Someone I know is towing a Montauk from MI to Keys this week. Perhaps he will have some info or an experience.
Landlocked posted 04-07-2014 01:49 PM ET (US)
I don't really think flagging it when it is in the tilted up position is all that bad of an idea. I've been tying 3-4 feet of surveyors ribbon around the base of my prop when traveling on the interstate for years. I find it keeps the tailgaters back a little.
Not sure why but when towing a boat everyone either seems to to break their neck to get around me no matter how fast I'm going or they follow so close I can barely see their car behind the boat!
EJO posted 04-08-2014 09:38 AM ET (US)
As said not a bad idea, I like the UK route, you might even be able to put a lock on it and keep nosy people from seeing your prop.
Keep in mind that BW says in the owners manual to keep the engine down (vertical) except when clearance is needed for RR-crossings, driveways, or trailer bounce, etc. Hence I lift mine slightly and use a support bar (prop does not stick much farther out than the motor cowling)
I didn't like the dealer recommendation to tilt it up all the way and use engine tilt lock.
jflots posted 04-08-2014 01:19 PM ET (US)
Paint the prop orange

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Author	Topic: Florida Law on Trailering
contender	posted 04-04-2014 05:37 PM ET (US) I ran into a friend of mine that lives down in the Florida Keys, He told me that police, troopers, and marine patrols, right now, are giving out warnings for towing your boat with the engine tilted up. If the engine is being towed and the engine is in the tilted position, the new requirement is to have a red flag tied to the propeller and around the lower unit. The officer told my friend soon they will be issuing tickets for this offense. He did not give a starting date. Can a law be only required in one part or county of the state of Florida? Or, is this going to be a Florida state-wide new boating requirement?
Chuck Tribolet	posted 04-05-2014 03:14 AM ET (US) I wonder if this is a new regulation or just enforcement of the existing regulation about how far cargo can project beyond the vehicle. Note: in California, these would be regulations (passed the Motor Vehicle Commission) rather than laws (passed by the legislature). Chuck
jimh	posted 04-05-2014 08:04 AM ET (US) If someone has received a warning for possible violation of a law, the warning should include a citation of the exact section of the regulations being violated.
wezie	posted 04-05-2014 08:53 AM ET (US) Sounds like the afterbirth from a traffic incident! What is the "vehicle"? From the "vehicle" how far behind can an object extend? Once it is all defined, if enforced, this will become a pain for all. Take a look at the distance your boat and engine extends from the end of the trailer!
fishgutz	posted 04-05-2014 09:08 AM ET (US) http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/316.228 Looks like 4 feet is the limit. Beyond that you need a red flag. Usually the rear of a vehicle or trailer is the tail lights. My boat and trailer are compliant as I have my transom only an inch or two past the tail lights and with the motor all the way up I'm at less than 3 feet. I have seen lots of trailers that exceed the 4 foot limit when the motor is tilted up.
fishgutz	posted 04-05-2014 09:28 AM ET (US) http://www.uscargocontrol.com/Vehicle-and-Driver-Safety-Supplies/ Flags-Banners-and-Signs Explained at the bottom of this webpage. Their explanation pertains to commercial vehicle but most likely applies to boats, too.
dfmcintyre	posted 04-05-2014 10:27 AM ET (US) Question: In Florida, is a trailer considered a "vehicle"?
Chuck Tribolet	posted 04-05-2014 11:48 AM ET (US) The trailer would be a vehicle in California. Also four feet here. Red flag (day) or two red lights (night) required. Chuck
jimh	posted 04-05-2014 01:27 PM ET (US) I better measure my Whaler Drive and engine overhang. I bet it is more than four feet behind the trailer's rear lights.
Whalrman	posted 04-05-2014 05:31 PM ET (US) The Keys are a special place , as we all know. There is only one way in and out, by car/truck, that I know of, and if there is a collision/accident there is serious traffic trouble. From what I understand the LEO's that have that duty down there take it seriously and hold everyone to keep it safe. Brakes on trailers, boat or others that actually have brakes and actually work, lights on same and tow vehicle that work etc. etc. I'm going to ask our local LEO's, and state, FWC, marine, there take on this.
fishgutz	posted 04-05-2014 07:30 PM ET (US) A trailer in Florida is registered as a vehicle and has a Florida tag. It is separate from the boat and motor and even with my insurance it is insured with my automobiles not with the boat.
fishgutz	posted 04-05-2014 07:35 PM ET (US) http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/316.003 A trailer is defined as a vehicle: 316.003 #58
fishgutz	posted 04-05-2014 07:36 PM ET (US) 316.003 #75 also.
pete r	posted 04-06-2014 12:40 AM ET (US) That rule is fast gaining popularity here too. However, I attempt to have my motor up a little for fear I may forget it's down when ever I need to reverse into a driveway or up an incline to get around a tight roadway. These days most are aware of 'being seen' in the work place yards etc. It's now common to see a prop wrapped in one of those fluoro work vests. Most boat shops sell a proper fit fluoro flag to do the job. Either way I think they do a great job of warning following vehicles.
Jefecinco	posted 04-06-2014 10:40 AM ET (US) After reading this thread I went outside and tilted my Verado to the travel position. When resting on the travel lever it is almost horizontal to the ground and pokes back for most of it's length. The good part is that the lower unit is higher than almost any vehicle front end except for a van, so it's far more likely the transom would be hit in a rear end accident and the engine would be untouched. The distance to the tip of the skeg is under four feet but I'm going to get a "red flag" or equivalent just to provide another layer of protection. Butch
home Aside	posted 04-06-2014 04:22 PM ET (US) Generally, each state has their own Motor Vehicle Code/Regulations, although I would imagine they are probably pretty uniform state to state. That being said, it would be prudent for people to be familiar with the Codes for the states they live in and states they travel to.... It may be a pain in the rear to have to hang a flag or additional light on the rear of your motor when tilted up, but if it alerts other driver's it's better than the repair bill. I have had my had by engine run into by another vehicle, I was lucky in two ways, the only thing damaged was my prop, and the driver that hit it was my mother....luckily she was just backing out of her driveway slowly and hit it straight on. I don't know that a red flag would have prevented it. The skeg and prop did a hell of a lot more damage to my parents new Chrysler Mini-van than it did to my boat motor... Pat
contender	posted 04-06-2014 06:56 PM ET (US) Here is another though, when I rebuilt my 2 whalers last year I also undated the trailers as well (new rollers, bunks, covers checked and re-grease the bearing, etc.) One thing I did (not knowing about this new law) was I made my bunks longer then they needed to be, and they stick out about 2 inches passed the transom of the boat. So now this being the end of my vehicle/trailer is this not were they will have to measure from?
Jefecinco	posted 04-06-2014 07:30 PM ET (US) Contender, Maybe so or maybe no. To be on the safe side with the LEOs I would expect them to measure from the lens of the stop light. As I said a couple of posts ago, to be safe, as opposed to being legal, I'll be using a flag tied to my propeller even thought our Alabama law may not require it. I don't want some dummy to bang into my rig because I didn't have a flag. If I get hit at least I'll know there was not much else I could have done. Butch
fishgutz	posted 04-06-2014 08:27 PM ET (US) Contender, I am still trying to find the statute but the rear of a vehicle is (usually) defined as what can be seen at night from the rear, which is the taillights. This is what has been explained to me by law enforcement officers in Wisconsin and in Florida. Maybe next time I see a county sheriff in a donut shop I'll ask what the actual statute is.
fishgutz	posted 04-06-2014 08:47 PM ET (US) Here is a quote form an officer: "Whenever the load upon any vehicle extends, or whenever any integral part of any vehicle projects, to the rear 4 feet or more beyond the rear of the vehicle, as measured from the tail lamps, there shall be displayed at the extreme end of the load or projecting part of the vehicle during darkness, in addition to the required tail lamp, two red lights with a bulb rated not in excess of six candlepower plainly visible from a distance of at least 500 feet to the sides and rear. At any other time there shall be displayed at the extreme end of the load or projecting part of the vehicle a solid red or fluorescent orange flag or cloth not less than 12 inches square." http://www.redding.com/news/2010/jan/23/ coptalk-how-much-canoe-can-hang-over-the-back-of/
daveweight	posted 04-07-2014 05:31 AM ET (US) This is what we have been using in the UK for a long time, it also stops me from walking into the outboard at the end of a days fishing/boating when I am normally tired and stupid. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Small-size-Outboard-motor-propeller-bag-/ 121313686429 Dave Weight
PeteB88	posted 04-07-2014 01:29 PM ET (US) Someone I know is towing a Montauk from MI to Keys this week. Perhaps he will have some info or an experience.
Landlocked	posted 04-07-2014 01:49 PM ET (US) I don't really think flagging it when it is in the tilted up position is all that bad of an idea. I've been tying 3-4 feet of surveyors ribbon around the base of my prop when traveling on the interstate for years. I find it keeps the tailgaters back a little. Not sure why but when towing a boat everyone either seems to to break their neck to get around me no matter how fast I'm going or they follow so close I can barely see their car behind the boat!
EJO	posted 04-08-2014 09:38 AM ET (US) As said not a bad idea, I like the UK route, you might even be able to put a lock on it and keep nosy people from seeing your prop. Keep in mind that BW says in the owners manual to keep the engine down (vertical) except when clearance is needed for RR-crossings, driveways, or trailer bounce, etc. Hence I lift mine slightly and use a support bar (prop does not stick much farther out than the motor cowling) I didn't like the dealer recommendation to tilt it up all the way and use engine tilt lock.
jflots	posted 04-08-2014 01:19 PM ET (US) Paint the prop orange