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Does My c.1974 16-footer Need a Capacity Plate
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ContinuousWave Whaler Moderated Discussion Areas
ContinuousWave: The Whaler GAM or General Area
Does My c.1974 16-footer Need a Capacity Plate
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| Author | Topic: Does My c.1974 16-footer Need a Capacity Plate |
| RickCFL |
posted 04-16-2014 04:23 PM ET (US)  
Just bought my first Whaler; Tom has helped narrow her down to 1972-1976 16-footer. I bought her with literally nothing but the hull. Restoring. I have never owned a restored boat. I assume I will have to put a new capacity plate on her for 4, 6 or how many ever she is rated to hold plus weight Where do I get one? USCG? Thanks |
| Jeff |
posted 04-16-2014 05:19 PM ET (US)
Janis at Magicbrush re-makes them for Whalers. The ones from that epoch where actually stickers not plates. http://www.magicbrushsign.com That said, no you are not required to have one in the boat. Only the manufactures are or were required to have installed on the hull at the time of delivery. This is also only for hulls of a certain size (20' or less I believe). |
| contender |
posted 04-16-2014 05:42 PM ET (US)
[Agrees with] Jeff. This was required by the company (Whaler) when the boat was new. If I remember correctly the maximum was six people for this size Whaler, however, I have seen more. It is more important--make sure--to have a good life jacket for each person. I attach a whistle to each one. I really do not like to go in that size Boston Whaler boat with more than three, just not enough room to be at ease. Four to five, if they are little kids involved but just for the day... |
| RickCFL |
posted 04-17-2014 10:03 AM ET (US)
Thank you Jeff and Richard.. Not to toot my own horn but more to put others at ease. I am a lifelong boater, grew up sailing and actually can navigate by chart and not just follow a GPS plotter. I have owned six powerboats myself over the last 20 years, the largest being 28-feet. I have fished offshore and absolutely agree with you about life jackets; I also carry a ditch bag with EPIRB, gun flares, survival stuff; also have heavey duty offshore jackets not just the $5 horseshoes. I am however very much a novice to restoring boats. Thus the silly questions. All my boats I have researched and bought as is. Never had to start from scratch. Fun stuff. I do appreciate the comments and insight. Thank you very much for your continued comments. Best |
| jfortson |
posted 04-17-2014 10:46 AM ET (US)
For what it is worth, my insurance company (State Farm) wanted pictures of the boat and also the capacity plate to make sure the HP was not over the recommended size. |
| RickCFL |
posted 04-17-2014 10:52 AM ET (US)
Makes very good sense. I ordered them and will put them on. Worth the $12 to know and prove the capacity. |
| EJO |
posted 04-17-2014 02:56 PM ET (US)
Rick--also, as you know (from 20 years boating), when you have a [voluntary] vessel inspection done [by a volunteer of the Coast Guard Auxiliary]--which should be done to all boats yearly--[the boat] should have a capacity plate. It is for that reason that I highly recommend [having a capacity plate]. As a certified volunteer examiner, I cannot fail [your boat] for not having one, as it was the manufacturer's responsibility, but, having done enough vessel checks, I would fail [the boat] if it had a blatantly higher power outboard than is normal. Here in Michigan an yearly updated [USCG Auxilary] Vessel Safety Check decal on your boat keeps unwanted law enforcement boarding away. If you do something against the law all bets are off. But, [the USCG Auxiliary Voluntary Vessel Inspection decal] will tell the law enforcement agent this boater has a boat that has the required safety equipment and its skipper was and is responsible enough to have the vessel checked for compliance, so I don't need to bother him or her with a Vessel Check. We know here that a 16-foot Boston Whaler boat can handle six persons and 90-HP, but a plate for 6 persons (900-lbs) and 60-HP (325-lbs) would be most likely what a current manufacturer would put on it. I say get a capacity plate or sticker as well as a no oil, garbage, pollution (MARPOL) placard. Good luck with the restoration. |
| jimh |
posted 04-17-2014 07:12 PM ET (US)
I don't think the Coast Guard Auxiliary has the manpower necessary to provide a voluntary vessel inspection to all boats annually. I have a heck of a time finding anyone from the Auxiliary to inspect my boat. Also, the inspection decals should be valid for one year from the time of inspection. In the northern Great Lakes, an inspection performed in September is good for about one week before it expires, since the boating season ends before October, as they are based on the calendar year. To make the inspection worthwhile, you'd need to get it done in April or May. So now the Auxiliary needs enough manpower to inspect every boat in the USA in just a few weeks each Spring. That is just not going to happen. |
| Plotman |
posted 04-17-2014 07:53 PM ET (US)
It;s like the tag on a mattress. It has to be there when the product is sold as new, but after that it is up to owner whether is stays or goes. |
| Tom W Clark |
posted 04-17-2014 11:20 PM ET (US)
The persons capacity is 7, not 6 and assuming the boat is equipped with remote controls, the maximum power is 100 HP (but only 50 HP if tiller steered). |
| EJO |
posted 04-18-2014 10:03 AM ET (US)
JIMH Yes you are right that it is better to do a vessel check early spring for the best yearly coverage. You don't have to use the Coast Guard. Check with your local USPS (Power Squadron). Each of these Squadrons will have one or more VE's Vessel Examiners that are certified through the USCG. The vessel checks are always free and we VE's are happy to do them. I believe you are in East MI (District 9)and there are 22 Power Squadrons in that district. Pick one of the ones closest to you and contact them. http://d9-usps.org/?p=squadrons If you can't set-up an inspection come West and I'll be happy to pass your boat and get you a 2014 decal. I would come to you, but I normally boat on the East side of Lake Michigan (South to North) and don't get to Lake Huron. If you're boating UP North I'll be on Mackinac Island June 8-10 or Elk Rapids the week of July 13 and be happy to take some time to do an exam. (but that is later in the season already) |
| EJO |
posted 04-18-2014 10:41 AM ET (US)
Tom you're probably right about the 7 persons although I thought it was the 17ft and up where the 6/7 cut-off was. I don't think it is the 6 or 7 persons as much as the total weight. I'm a heavy big person (250 lbs) and I can tell you now that if I have 5 of my 6' to 6'4" buddies on a 16ft BW with a 100HP motor the boat would be dangerously overloaded. She won't sink, we all know that, but she would not be save either. The OP said he is restoring a 16ft BW shell. I assume he'll get new propulsion. You can't buy a new 100hp so he must choose between a 90HP or 115HP even if the 2-stroke 115 is lighter than the 90HP 4-stroke the 115 would put it over your stated 100HP max but both would be within the OB motor weight limit. So we are back to weight is more important than number of persons. The average American person does not weigh 150 lbs so be cautious and say 6 persons with 90 HP max. |
| Tom W Clark |
posted 04-18-2014 10:53 AM ET (US)
I do not necessarily disagree with the wisdom of how you might load a boat like this, but that is another subject. Actually, there are plenty of 100 HP outboards on the market. Most are used. I may be wrong about the persons capacity. It may well be 10. Here is an original capacity plate from a 1971 16'-7" model: http://www.whalercentral.com/images/ppimages/12919/IMG_0045.JPG |
| 2manyboats |
posted 04-18-2014 12:07 PM ET (US)
Some of EJO's comments are exactly why no Coast Guard Auxiliary is allowed near any of our boats. He somehow seems to know how a manufacturer would rate a 17ft boat and yet seems to ignore the fact that the oil discharge placard is only required on boats over 26ft with an engine room and the trash placard is just for boats over 26ft. It also seems somewhat arbitrary that he can decide when a boat is overpowered. He also seems to imply that having a Coast Guard Auxiliary sticker is proof that you are a responsible boat, to that I say BS. |
| Bobs66 |
posted 04-18-2014 08:08 PM ET (US)
My 66 Sakonnet has a stick-on plate and the capacity is 10.I always wondered if those guys on Hingham St were too close to the resin when they came up with that.I have never had 10 aboard nor will I but the sticker is quite weathered now and illegible . I thought if I ever had 10 I would have a tough time convincing law enforcement that the boat was not overloaded .The max horsepower is 100 . |
| 2manyboats |
posted 04-18-2014 10:02 PM ET (US)
The older standards were for 150 lbs per person and at some point that went up to I believe 160. Then in 2011 the Coast Guard Regulations were changed to 185 per person. Recreational boats always have number of people or a combined weight of people, gear, and motor because the boats are not outfitted when the weight calculations are done. In the case of our passenger vessels we are given a number of passengers or the weight of that number, but gear and motors are not added as our gear and motors have to be onboard when the stability tests are done. We can go by the number of people regardless of their weight or we can exceed the number if we are willing to weigh passengers every trip. Not to pick on EJO but his statement of "a plate for 6 persons (900-lbs) and 60-HP (325-lbs) would be most likely what a current manufacturer would put on" is just not correct. 6 persons would be considered to weigh 1110 lbs and the weight of the motor has nothing to do with the hp rating for the boat as that weight would just go towards total weight allowed on board. |
| jimh |
posted 04-19-2014 02:19 AM ET (US)
EJO informs me on vessel inspections:
quote: I think you are dead wrong on that. The real truth is you CANNOT USE THE COAST GUARD. I have asked the Coast Guard to inspect my vessel and they refuse. They only want to inspect vessels they stop, they don't want to inspect vessels that are presented to them voluntarily. The Coast Guard told me to get the Auxiliary to inspect my vessel as they don't offer inspections to voluntary boaters, they don't have any decals to give out, and they don't offer this service. I am not sure what I might have said in this thread that made you think I was operating with the premise that my vessel could only be voluntarily inspected by the real USA Coast Guard. I already know the real USA Coast Guard will not inspect my vessel when I want them to--they only will inspect my vessel when I don't want them to, that is, when I am out on the water trying to enjoy some recreational boating time. That is when the real USA Coast Guard wants to stop me from enjoying recreational boating and force me to submit to a boarding and inspection. If I call them up and say, hey, how about meeting at a mutually convenient time to inspect my vessel, the USA Coast Guard won't cooperate. They only want to inspect vessels when it is convenient for them, and the heck with any sort of convenience for the boater. The new mission of the USA Coast Guard seems to be to try to make recreational boating inconvenient. If they were really interested in promoting compliance they'd have plenty of time to meet with boaters and inspect their vessels on a voluntary basis, where the boater could find out what the vessel might need to have added in order to comply. That would be an actual boating safety promotion program. But they seem to want no part of that. They wait for the boats to depart from the dock, then Blue-Light them, board them, and inspect them. It is a crazy world we have now. United States House of Representatives Congressman Tom Rice pointed this out to a Coast Guard Admiral in a public hearing recently, saying he had personally observed on many occasions that the USA Coast Guard was out stopping recreational boaters and boarding them to perform safety inspections when local law enforcement agencies were on the water at the same time and place, doing the same thing. The Admiral just shrugged this off and explained that the Coast Guard was obligated by its statutory missions to do this sort of thing. As for the Power Squadron doing USA Coast Guard Auxiliary vessel inspections, that is something I never heard of. I was in the United States Power Squadron (USPS) for a decade, and we never had any sort of vessel inspections or decals that said "COAST GUARD AUXILIARY VOLUNTARY VESSEL INSPECTION." If the USPS is doing that in 2014, it must be some new program. 2manyboats: Yes, I thought it was rather odd that an individual Coast Guard Auxiliary voluntary examiner could make up their own rules and criteria for a vessel to pass their inspection. My prior understanding was a vessel only got a decal if it met the formal criteria of the inspection, not the arbitrary criteria of the individual inspector. On the other hand, I guess an inspector could certify pass or fail as they see fit--if the volunteer inspector is not feeling good about a vessel, he shouldn't certify it as passing. Sometimes the criteria of the Auxiliary for passing is different from the actual rules and regulations. For example, I think the Auxiliary has some definition of its own making about the fuel tank capacity in gallons that is the maximum for a fuel tank that can be described as "portable." I think it is six or seven gallons. There is actually no federal regulation about that, as far as I can tell. So the Auxiliary will tell you your on-deck fuel tank is too big, but the real USA Coast Guard does not have a federal rule on this. |
| 2manyboats |
posted 04-19-2014 09:05 AM ET (US)
From a safety stand point I see no benifit in having any of my boats receiving a courtesy safety check from someone less knowledgeable and with far less boating experience than me. As for portable fuel tanks, jimh is correct that there are no federal regulations defining portable tanks. What the Coast Guard does is rely on ABYC standards, the federal code says tanks for inspected vessels must meet ABYC H-25 standards and H-25 does mention 7 gal. But we have found and use tanks as large as 12 gals that are built to ABYC H-25 standards. The federal code, other than ABYC H-25, does say the portable tanks can only be used for outboard motors. While the CG Auxiliary decal may cut down on safety checks for some boaters, we are out on the water 40 to 50 hrs a week and most all the water patrols know us and our safety standards. |
| jimh |
posted 04-19-2014 11:00 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the mention of the source of the 7-gallon definition of portable tank. One problem with the recommendations of the American Boat and Yacht Council (ABYC): they're not available to the public. You have to buy them. However, if they become incorporated in federal law, the standards are often available on-line. I found this copy of the 1994 ABYC standard H-25, PORTABLE GASOLINE FUEL SYSTEMS: https://law.resource.org/pub/us/cfr/ibr/001/abyc.H-25.1994.pdf In Section 25.4, Definitions, the standard says:
quote: Also, rather interestingly, the standard says:
quote: I guess that means if you have one of those nice off-white 24-gallon Moeller on-deck fuel tanks, you do not have a portable gasoline tank under ABYC definition. According to the ABYC, the most recent version of their H-25 standard is dated 2010. See http://www.abycinc.org/standards/purpose.cfm The ABYC H-25 standard is cited in the Code of Federal Regulations in a few places. Part 1060--CONTROL OF EVAPORATIVE EMISSIONS FROM NEW AND IN-USE NONROAD AND STATIONARY EQUIPMENT, says:
quote: 33 CFR PART 183, SUBPART J - FUEL SYSTEMS. mentions:
quote: This seems to suggest that even if some part of ABYC H-25 is mentioned in the federal regulations, it does not apply to boats with outboard engines. So, from what I have found, there is no inclusion in the federal regulations that a portable fuel tank is defined to be 7-gallons or less. That may be the ABYC definition, but it is not the federal government's definition. Also, based on the same analysis, there is no federal regulation that requires the portable fuel tank to be red. On that basis, I think the white 24-gallon Moeller on-deck fuel tank is still a portable fuel tank under the federal regulations, but clearly not under the ABYC definitions in H-25. I wonder what an individual volunteer, either a Coast Guard Auxiliary member or a Power Squadron member, performing an inspection of a voluntary boat, relies on for determining if a Boston Whaler with an off-white 24-gallon Moelller on-deck fuel tank meets the requirements for a portable gasoline fuel tank. Will they pass or fail such a boat? |
| draftsman |
posted 04-20-2014 09:15 AM ET (US)
A lot of the reason older Whalers are rated the way they are is because when they started calculating such things they didn't add a safety factor into the mix as they do today. And the fact that people were based at 150 lbs. I'm pretty slim but still am 165, not hard to see why they have the capacities they do. |
| RickCFL |
posted 04-21-2014 04:31 PM ET (US)
Thanks all for the interest and replies. Again to put those at ease; I am 46 having boated since birth; first 20 yrs sailed on a good size sailboat where I learned the waterways in Massachusetts. Next 26 yrs in FL moved over to powerboats and have owned 6 powerboats as an adult on my own (sailboats when I lived with parents etc). That said, I got the capacity plates so no worries. Not to fuel the fire here but I have taken the Safe boating course twice in FL; once when I moved here and 2nd time last year with my boys since they wanted the "license". Now here I go.. Let's just say there is no hands on application from the course. Growing up with someone that is a safe boater is the best way to learn; or a friend etc.. I believe the Auxiliary does a great job but you can't replace life experience. If you believe that the Auxiliary is the best thing since sliced bread then that is another story. My boys passed the Auxiliary course but I certainly wouldn't allow them to go on their own until they pass "my course" and make both my wife and I comfortable that they can go on their own. I don't see this happening until maybe next fall of 2015 when they are 14 and 13 yrs old. Also said, I have never had any of my 6 boats inspected by the Auxiliary and probably never will. Sorry again not to fuel the fire. It was an innocent question on whether the plate is required. I tend to side of conservative and caution anyway with boating so I bought the plates and the decals; total was I think $40.. Thanks all. |
| RickCFL |
posted 04-21-2014 04:41 PM ET (US)
FYI. Tom/Contender (Rich), 15 hrs into restoration. Not sure of the fancy terms I hear but this is what I have completed. 12 hrs of orbital sanding over 2 days until I couldn't lift my arms at night to remove the nonskid from the deck (60 and 80 grit; should have used less since it took forever to remove nonskid). Thankfully the insides of the hull went much easier on sanding. Filled/fixed about 30 screw holes with polyester fill from local glass company. Sanded. Primed first coat of Interlux primer/epoxy applied. Heck, compared to the way she looked when I brought her home (full of leaves, dirty, paint chips) she already looks awesome and I haven't even applied the first coat of Interlux Perfection yet. The system is part A and B with a pretty simple formula and a reducer. All pretty easily detailed on the cans; no science degree needed. Have to sand with 220 grit next and apply first paint coat; hopefully both this weekend. I have pix to chronicle the progress but really need to figure out how to upload to the site. Anyone have specific directions? Thanks |
| EJO |
posted 04-21-2014 07:51 PM ET (US)
It is great to hear that so many of us have great and lonf boating experience. I myself are pretty new to boating as I have only boated (by myself) for 54 years starting with a home built (with my Dad) International Class Cadet sailing dinghy. That was the first boat that was mine and that I was the skipper of. Since then I owned 2manyboats to name; from 14 ft Olympic class sailing race dinghies to 52ft cabin cruiser and everything in between sail and power from 3 hp OB to 1,100 hp IB's. All this was done all over the world, Caribbean, The Netherlands, France, England, Spain, and now here in the States. Yes I made a general statement regarding MARPOL and I know it is only required on boats over 26ft. And yes I said USCG and should have said Auxiliary (sorry) 2manyboats I know you're a professional boater operating a tourboat so I assume you have a Captains Licence as required by law. Good for you and I also assume that you don't throw your porta-potty waste in the river and dispose of it properly as well as your oil waste. You don't spill fuel either which is what I meant by mentioning the MARPOL. All I was trying to say in my answer was use caution, if you don't know play it safe and protect the waterways we recreational boater love to play on responsibly. I do not and I won't arbitrarily pass or don't pass a vessel based what I think is right. There are strict written guidelines to follow as set forth by the US CG and its Auxilliary. Following is a synopsis; EVEN EXPERIENCED BOATERS NEED A VESSEL SAFETY CHECK! The most cautious boaters can sometimes experience unexpected problems on the water. That's why the U.S. Coast Guard recommends that all recreational boaters, including personal watercraft and paddle sport users, take advantage of the free Vessel Safety Check program every year. The courtesy Vessel Safety Check (VSC) is performed at your boat – whether in a slip, at the launch ramp, or in your driveway – by a certified Vessel Examiner, at a mutually-convenient time, and usually takes 30 to 45 minutes, depending upon the size of your boat. What's In it For Me? Jim knows that the CG can do whatever they want and whenever under the "we want to do a safety inspection" (see last years June posts) Bottom line here for me is I personally do things on the cautious side if I don't know or I use my Engineering degree to figure out an answer as everybody is an Expert now with the Internet. Sorry to upset some of you and happy safe boating. |
| 2manyboats |
posted 04-21-2014 11:33 PM ET (US)
Just to be clear nobody here has upset me, I just know BS when I see it. I do agree that with the internet anybody can be an expert. |
| RickCFL |
posted 04-22-2014 09:59 AM ET (US)
Wow. I am officially sorry I asked. |
| RickCFL |
posted 04-22-2014 10:01 AM ET (US)
Jim. any way to pull this post down and delete. I got my answers. Being new to the site I have learned now that some people just as in life "know everything". Thanks to those that had constructive answers to the simple question that was asked. |
| hauptjm |
posted 04-22-2014 11:06 AM ET (US)
Without editorial, here are some visuals that may aid in defining the above: USCG Vessel Safety Check Manual: http://www.uscg.mil/directives/cim/16000-16999/cim_16796_8.pdf USCG Boating Safety Resource Center: http://www.uscgboating.org/ |
| hauptjm |
posted 04-22-2014 11:33 AM ET (US)
One more document - The Boaters Guide to Federal Requirements for Recreational Boats: http://www.uscgboating.org/fedreqs/default.html |
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