Engine Reliability for Lake Michigan - Moderated Discussion Areas

  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: The Whaler GAM or General Area
  Engine Reliability for Lake Michigan

search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   Engine Reliability for Lake Michigan

moabelite posted 05-25-2014 08:30 PM ET (US)
Out on the lake today for some lovely holiday weekend boating with the family in the 2006 Montauk 170 with Mercury 90-HP FourStroke. After the bulk of our time was over on the water and without any [engine problems] thus far we stopped for a break at the state park pavilion. Upon boarding again we expected to head out for our last hour on the water, but, to my surprise, I got a whole lot of nothing when I turned the ignition. All other systems were go and inspection of the breakers and battery connections showed nothing concerning. We were close to the launch so we easily made it out of the water and home. where I found a fuse blown in the Mercury's on-board fuses. I've never had this [happen] before and upon replacing the fuse everything appears normal. [Seeks your] thoughts [and] similar experiences.
Do I need to be worried when I start hitting the Lake Michigan as the lake temp rises?
jimh posted 05-26-2014 09:53 AM ET (US)
Regarding future trips onto Lake Michigan, I would be worried about the reliability of the engine. At the least, carry some extra spare fuses. Were it my engine, I'd operate it for a while on some inland water until it proved it wasn't going to stop working again.
The water temperature in Lake Michigan will probably not affect the electrical circuit in which the fuse blew.
If you want to get advice on how to diagnose this electrical problem, please post to SMALL BOAT ELECTRICAL.
jimh posted 05-26-2014 10:05 AM ET (US)
Regarding similar experiences:
At least two times, perhaps three, I have had the unsettling experience of being rather far away from the dock or boat launch, turning the ignition key, and getting unanticipated results. In several instances, there was no engine cranking. You'd turn the ignition key to START and nothing would happen. The cranking motor would not engage at all. It is a very disconcerting feeling. To my good fortune, I was never stranded by this problem. I was always able to get the engine started within a few minutes. After it happened twice, I began to investigate the problem with great earnest, and to take steps to prevent it from happening again.
Because the problem had only occurred sporadically, it was impossible to isolate the cause to a specific component in my diagnosis of the problem. After applying several remedies, we resumed our normal boating, but, for quite a while afterwards, there was always some anxiety about starting the engine when we were offshore. It took several months of boating, with the engine starting reliably, before I became confident that the problem had been remedied.
Even today, I tend to never shut off my running engine if I am in the middle of a long offshore passage.
PeteB88 posted 05-26-2014 01:14 PM ET (US)
We were on Lake Michigan yesterday - where were you boating? Since you were able to diagnose the problem, now you know what you must have on board for any situation. Fuses being critical. I plan to do an inventory of parts, tools including fuses for my boat.
I think all of us have learned from these experiences and some the hard way. I had a strange failure on Muskegon Lake two years ago just before I entered the channel to go off shore. Luckily, I made it to a sandy beach N of the channel, got the motor started and nursed it back to the DNR ramp and went home. Problem was bad ECM diagnosed by Lockeman's who went through my entire outboard on that service call.
Some boaters advise join Sea Tow, others hope nothing happens and/or do lots of inspections and preventive maintenance, one guy I know says "screw it, I'll throw in an anchor and wait for a tow"... some think the paddle they carry on board will get them to shore. I had to paddle my Classic 13 on Spring Lake last year because of a bad battery and I'll make it clear, I cannot imagine paddling a 17 with a paddle - you'd be up a certain creek with a paddle that's ineffective.
jimH has tons of experience as do others on this forum. Best advice is prevention and be prepared for the worst.
This year I'm installing dual battery system, using lock nuts instead of wing nuts on battery and installing a kicker for redundant power and trolling. Make sure your electronics are in good order and carry a backup VHF.
jimh posted 05-26-2014 03:50 PM ET (US)
I haven't had that sinking feeling of the engine not cranking in a long time, but reflecting, after reading Pete's comments, I remember it happening not too long ago, and in that instance, with my very new E-TEC engine. I turned the key to START and got nothing. After a second of panic, I realized the engine throttle-shift lever was not in NEUTRAL, and the cause of the no-crank was the neutral safety switch. The engine must have been shut off while still in gear. But for a second, there was quite a flood of anxiety.
moabelite posted 05-26-2014 08:51 PM ET (US)
I really appreciate the feedback Pete and Jim. Its a gift to have a sounding board with the cumulative knowledge represented on C.W.
I was grateful that we were only on Gun Lake yesterday as it simplified the learning experience and made it much less painful. Pete - Muskegon State Park is one of our favorite places to put in and head out onto the big lake. I know exactly where sandy beach north of the channel is! With the cool temps persisting on the coast this weekend we knew our young family would have to wait for the beach!
I'm glad to have had the experience in the sense that I now know and understand (on some level) another aspect of my Montauk and her operation. Knowing what I know now we could have been back to motoring in just a few moments! Suffice it to say that an assortment of spare fuses were ordered today and will be added to the assortment of tools and supplies that are always with us on the boat.
I'm truly hoping that the issue will either vanish this coming weekend when we are on the water (inland again I expect Jim) or persist reliably so that when we spend a week on Glen Lake (and hopefully the waters of the Sleeping Bear Dunes National Lakeshore) in early July I don't have to worry about reliability! As of today's checks in the driveway the motor operated without issue (using muffs for a couple of short durations).
Any further thoughts are of course welcome - hopefully, as you note Jim, I'm not welcoming a Gremlin to the party!
PeteB88 posted 05-26-2014 10:03 PM ET (US)
Let me know if you are in the area w/ your boat and we'll meet up. Good thread, put my projects back on priority list. I did pick up a sweet, flawless 8 HP kicker from original owner who is a super nice guy - add ons include going fishing with the seller who lives N of me about 30 miles. Next item is to figure out which bracket will work best for my boat and needs.
leadsled posted 05-30-2014 08:54 AM ET (US)
A kicker is only reliable if you use it. A friend of mine was offshore and the main engine quit. His kicker had not been run in a long time and would not run. And the small fuel tank for the kicker wouldn't have got him home anyway. You non fisherman need to run the kicker on the way out just for the heck of it.

blacklab posted 05-30-2014 09:59 AM ET (US)
I just purchased an auxiliary 9.9 HP engine for my Cohasset II. I figured it was necessary to have some peace of mind. I have successfully rowed several hundred yards in the Eastern Bay of the Chesapeake....never again, it ruined my day and was exhausting. My family thought it was funny and that I just shouldn't worry so much. Often times I crab in skinny water where no sea tow exists and prefer to be self reliant. For me, it's just not worth taking a chance on our safety.
wezie posted 05-30-2014 10:05 AM ET (US)
Unless it Sounds like a motor it is Not one.
Which fuse was it?
I fear there are more than I know. Of course, fuses are not in one location.
Thanks Jim for the electrical diagnosis post.
moabelite posted 05-31-2014 09:53 PM ET (US)
It was the "main" fuse (onboard) for the Mercury Wezie. Not fuses which I had previously considered but I am now well stocked on board!
Happy to report that the day on the lake was uneventful today. No repeat of the fuse issue and the weather was incredible.
Pete - Thanks and will keep that in mind if the big lake ever warms up and we get out your way :)
Would love to do a kicker at some point - not sure it is in the cards though :-/
jharrell posted 06-01-2014 10:25 AM ET (US)
My Yamaha F70 has 3 fuses under the cowl on top and in front, right next to each one is a built in spare holder with spares stocked from the factory. When I noticed this I thought it was a good idea and assumed any modern outboard with critical fuses would have a similar setup.
I time share a cabin only accessible by boat and not accessible by Seatow. The river access can be very shallow with underwater hazards therefore I have a F6 kicker. The kicker has it's own internal fuel tank good for about 45 minutes and will accept the fuel connection from the main engine. I also am in the installing the charging kit for the kicker, which is fully regulated on the F6 good for 6 amps. I noticed the charging kit came with a inline fuse holder with a spare right next to it, Yamaha seems to be consistent with fuses.
I also have dual batteries with and emergency combiner switch.
As you can see I like redundancy. I deal with computers in my day job and I am used to provisioning everything with redundancy and backups, its difficult for me not to do so on my boat. One simple mechanical or electrical failure can turn an fun weekend into a nightmare.
I have found typically when a fuse blows it is a symptom of some other problem, replacing the fuse may just be a temporary fix. I would look around for possible causes, inspect all electrical connections.

jimh posted 06-01-2014 12:36 PM ET (US)
Yes, as I mentioned in the first reply, if you need advice on making a diagnosis of your electrical problem, you can get a lot of advice in SMALL BOAT ELECTRICAL. This discussion here in THE GAM is not about electrical diagnosis, but rather about how much reliability is needed in the engine for safe boating on Lake Michigan.
Greg Hiller posted 06-01-2014 09:06 PM ET (US)
Did the instruments go dead? My friends 115 4 stroke Merc was blowing the fuse that affected starting, tilt/trim, and instruments. Problem was a short to a aluminum bracket holding up wires under the dash. The boat is a StarCraft Super Fishermen.
moabelite posted 06-08-2014 01:18 PM ET (US)
As an Update:
Ran Dog Star on Lake Michigan yesterday and the trip was uneventful. The lake was flat as flat can be - another lovely day on the water. I did cheat a bit and traveled with friends who have a 15' Dauntless:) How's that for taking a kicker along (slash tugboat)!
Oh, and yes - I did loose ALL functionality when the fuse blew: no gauges, no trim, no cranking.... The Merc also has a spare set of fuses onboard (didn't realize until I got home) which really is a lovely design.
Will keep you posted as the season progresses!
martyn1075 posted 06-08-2014 09:51 PM ET (US)
Not the cheapest way of solving a potential problem but the kicker is the way to go if you can. Keeping a small separate fuel tank with fresh gas on board is a good idea in case the failure is bad gas in the main tank. I feel much safer out there with a second engine. I would agree fuses are a good idea.
jimh posted 06-09-2014 01:22 PM ET (US)
With a fuse that has randomly blown and no cause of the over-current has been determined, the future reliability is undetermined, and carrying a lot of spare fuses may not provide a remedy. Some reasonable basis for the cause of the fuse opening should be determined, as whatever malfunction that resulted in the engine being disabled by the blown fuse could occur again, and, the next time, the fault may not clear itself. You ought to pursue resolution of the electrical problem in SMALL BOAT ELECTRICAL. But, until you get a better sense of what blew the fuse, it is prudent to carry more than one spare. I'd get six.

Hop to:

Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.

Author	Topic: Engine Reliability for Lake Michigan
moabelite	posted 05-25-2014 08:30 PM ET (US) Out on the lake today for some lovely holiday weekend boating with the family in the 2006 Montauk 170 with Mercury 90-HP FourStroke. After the bulk of our time was over on the water and without any [engine problems] thus far we stopped for a break at the state park pavilion. Upon boarding again we expected to head out for our last hour on the water, but, to my surprise, I got a whole lot of nothing when I turned the ignition. All other systems were go and inspection of the breakers and battery connections showed nothing concerning. We were close to the launch so we easily made it out of the water and home. where I found a fuse blown in the Mercury's on-board fuses. I've never had this [happen] before and upon replacing the fuse everything appears normal. [Seeks your] thoughts [and] similar experiences. Do I need to be worried when I start hitting the Lake Michigan as the lake temp rises?
jimh	posted 05-26-2014 09:53 AM ET (US) Regarding future trips onto Lake Michigan, I would be worried about the reliability of the engine. At the least, carry some extra spare fuses. Were it my engine, I'd operate it for a while on some inland water until it proved it wasn't going to stop working again. The water temperature in Lake Michigan will probably not affect the electrical circuit in which the fuse blew. If you want to get advice on how to diagnose this electrical problem, please post to SMALL BOAT ELECTRICAL.
jimh	posted 05-26-2014 10:05 AM ET (US) Regarding similar experiences: At least two times, perhaps three, I have had the unsettling experience of being rather far away from the dock or boat launch, turning the ignition key, and getting unanticipated results. In several instances, there was no engine cranking. You'd turn the ignition key to START and nothing would happen. The cranking motor would not engage at all. It is a very disconcerting feeling. To my good fortune, I was never stranded by this problem. I was always able to get the engine started within a few minutes. After it happened twice, I began to investigate the problem with great earnest, and to take steps to prevent it from happening again. Because the problem had only occurred sporadically, it was impossible to isolate the cause to a specific component in my diagnosis of the problem. After applying several remedies, we resumed our normal boating, but, for quite a while afterwards, there was always some anxiety about starting the engine when we were offshore. It took several months of boating, with the engine starting reliably, before I became confident that the problem had been remedied. Even today, I tend to never shut off my running engine if I am in the middle of a long offshore passage.
PeteB88	posted 05-26-2014 01:14 PM ET (US) We were on Lake Michigan yesterday - where were you boating? Since you were able to diagnose the problem, now you know what you must have on board for any situation. Fuses being critical. I plan to do an inventory of parts, tools including fuses for my boat. I think all of us have learned from these experiences and some the hard way. I had a strange failure on Muskegon Lake two years ago just before I entered the channel to go off shore. Luckily, I made it to a sandy beach N of the channel, got the motor started and nursed it back to the DNR ramp and went home. Problem was bad ECM diagnosed by Lockeman's who went through my entire outboard on that service call. Some boaters advise join Sea Tow, others hope nothing happens and/or do lots of inspections and preventive maintenance, one guy I know says "screw it, I'll throw in an anchor and wait for a tow"... some think the paddle they carry on board will get them to shore. I had to paddle my Classic 13 on Spring Lake last year because of a bad battery and I'll make it clear, I cannot imagine paddling a 17 with a paddle - you'd be up a certain creek with a paddle that's ineffective. jimH has tons of experience as do others on this forum. Best advice is prevention and be prepared for the worst. This year I'm installing dual battery system, using lock nuts instead of wing nuts on battery and installing a kicker for redundant power and trolling. Make sure your electronics are in good order and carry a backup VHF.
jimh	posted 05-26-2014 03:50 PM ET (US) I haven't had that sinking feeling of the engine not cranking in a long time, but reflecting, after reading Pete's comments, I remember it happening not too long ago, and in that instance, with my very new E-TEC engine. I turned the key to START and got nothing. After a second of panic, I realized the engine throttle-shift lever was not in NEUTRAL, and the cause of the no-crank was the neutral safety switch. The engine must have been shut off while still in gear. But for a second, there was quite a flood of anxiety.
moabelite	posted 05-26-2014 08:51 PM ET (US) I really appreciate the feedback Pete and Jim. Its a gift to have a sounding board with the cumulative knowledge represented on C.W. I was grateful that we were only on Gun Lake yesterday as it simplified the learning experience and made it much less painful. Pete - Muskegon State Park is one of our favorite places to put in and head out onto the big lake. I know exactly where sandy beach north of the channel is! With the cool temps persisting on the coast this weekend we knew our young family would have to wait for the beach! I'm glad to have had the experience in the sense that I now know and understand (on some level) another aspect of my Montauk and her operation. Knowing what I know now we could have been back to motoring in just a few moments! Suffice it to say that an assortment of spare fuses were ordered today and will be added to the assortment of tools and supplies that are always with us on the boat. I'm truly hoping that the issue will either vanish this coming weekend when we are on the water (inland again I expect Jim) or persist reliably so that when we spend a week on Glen Lake (and hopefully the waters of the Sleeping Bear Dunes National Lakeshore) in early July I don't have to worry about reliability! As of today's checks in the driveway the motor operated without issue (using muffs for a couple of short durations). Any further thoughts are of course welcome - hopefully, as you note Jim, I'm not welcoming a Gremlin to the party!
PeteB88	posted 05-26-2014 10:03 PM ET (US) Let me know if you are in the area w/ your boat and we'll meet up. Good thread, put my projects back on priority list. I did pick up a sweet, flawless 8 HP kicker from original owner who is a super nice guy - add ons include going fishing with the seller who lives N of me about 30 miles. Next item is to figure out which bracket will work best for my boat and needs.
leadsled	posted 05-30-2014 08:54 AM ET (US) A kicker is only reliable if you use it. A friend of mine was offshore and the main engine quit. His kicker had not been run in a long time and would not run. And the small fuel tank for the kicker wouldn't have got him home anyway. You non fisherman need to run the kicker on the way out just for the heck of it.
blacklab	posted 05-30-2014 09:59 AM ET (US) I just purchased an auxiliary 9.9 HP engine for my Cohasset II. I figured it was necessary to have some peace of mind. I have successfully rowed several hundred yards in the Eastern Bay of the Chesapeake....never again, it ruined my day and was exhausting. My family thought it was funny and that I just shouldn't worry so much. Often times I crab in skinny water where no sea tow exists and prefer to be self reliant. For me, it's just not worth taking a chance on our safety.
wezie	posted 05-30-2014 10:05 AM ET (US) Unless it Sounds like a motor it is Not one. Which fuse was it? I fear there are more than I know. Of course, fuses are not in one location. Thanks Jim for the electrical diagnosis post.
moabelite	posted 05-31-2014 09:53 PM ET (US) It was the "main" fuse (onboard) for the Mercury Wezie. Not fuses which I had previously considered but I am now well stocked on board! Happy to report that the day on the lake was uneventful today. No repeat of the fuse issue and the weather was incredible. Pete - Thanks and will keep that in mind if the big lake ever warms up and we get out your way :) Would love to do a kicker at some point - not sure it is in the cards though :-/
jharrell	posted 06-01-2014 10:25 AM ET (US) My Yamaha F70 has 3 fuses under the cowl on top and in front, right next to each one is a built in spare holder with spares stocked from the factory. When I noticed this I thought it was a good idea and assumed any modern outboard with critical fuses would have a similar setup. I time share a cabin only accessible by boat and not accessible by Seatow. The river access can be very shallow with underwater hazards therefore I have a F6 kicker. The kicker has it's own internal fuel tank good for about 45 minutes and will accept the fuel connection from the main engine. I also am in the installing the charging kit for the kicker, which is fully regulated on the F6 good for 6 amps. I noticed the charging kit came with a inline fuse holder with a spare right next to it, Yamaha seems to be consistent with fuses. I also have dual batteries with and emergency combiner switch. As you can see I like redundancy. I deal with computers in my day job and I am used to provisioning everything with redundancy and backups, its difficult for me not to do so on my boat. One simple mechanical or electrical failure can turn an fun weekend into a nightmare. I have found typically when a fuse blows it is a symptom of some other problem, replacing the fuse may just be a temporary fix. I would look around for possible causes, inspect all electrical connections.
jimh	posted 06-01-2014 12:36 PM ET (US) Yes, as I mentioned in the first reply, if you need advice on making a diagnosis of your electrical problem, you can get a lot of advice in SMALL BOAT ELECTRICAL. This discussion here in THE GAM is not about electrical diagnosis, but rather about how much reliability is needed in the engine for safe boating on Lake Michigan.
Greg Hiller	posted 06-01-2014 09:06 PM ET (US) Did the instruments go dead? My friends 115 4 stroke Merc was blowing the fuse that affected starting, tilt/trim, and instruments. Problem was a short to a aluminum bracket holding up wires under the dash. The boat is a StarCraft Super Fishermen.
moabelite	posted 06-08-2014 01:18 PM ET (US) As an Update: Ran Dog Star on Lake Michigan yesterday and the trip was uneventful. The lake was flat as flat can be - another lovely day on the water. I did cheat a bit and traveled with friends who have a 15' Dauntless:) How's that for taking a kicker along (slash tugboat)! Oh, and yes - I did loose ALL functionality when the fuse blew: no gauges, no trim, no cranking.... The Merc also has a spare set of fuses onboard (didn't realize until I got home) which really is a lovely design. Will keep you posted as the season progresses!
martyn1075	posted 06-08-2014 09:51 PM ET (US) Not the cheapest way of solving a potential problem but the kicker is the way to go if you can. Keeping a small separate fuel tank with fresh gas on board is a good idea in case the failure is bad gas in the main tank. I feel much safer out there with a second engine. I would agree fuses are a good idea.
jimh	posted 06-09-2014 01:22 PM ET (US) With a fuse that has randomly blown and no cause of the over-current has been determined, the future reliability is undetermined, and carrying a lot of spare fuses may not provide a remedy. Some reasonable basis for the cause of the fuse opening should be determined, as whatever malfunction that resulted in the engine being disabled by the blown fuse could occur again, and, the next time, the fault may not clear itself. You ought to pursue resolution of the electrical problem in SMALL BOAT ELECTRICAL. But, until you get a better sense of what blew the fuse, it is prudent to carry more than one spare. I'd get six.