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Author Topic:   My 1991 Guardian 19 Bow Anchor Locker, Sump

Don SSDD posted 08-04-2014 09:02 AM ET (US)
The bow of my [1991 Boston Whaler GUARDIAN 19] has a smooth floor and the walls are smooth as well. There is no sign it ever had a locker, and no evidence of a drain on the hull exterior. Is this uncommon?
The hull is red. My guess is this may have been a Canadian Coast Guard boat. They are the only ones I know of that would have had a need for red gel coat. It may have been used as a workboat off a larger vessel, so no need for an anchor locker.
I was working on my bilge pump, a Rule with auto sensor, not the one that comes on and off every three minutes. The pump wouldn't shut off, so I took it out and unscrewed the blue screen from the bottom. I cleaned out all the water and debris in the sump area and the pump seems to be working OK now.
The blue base or screen for the pump had one screw holding it down and when I removed the screw and dried out the sump area, there is a slow leak of water coming into the sump through the screw hole. What is under the sump? Where could this water be coming from?
I read in the manual you could leave the drains out in the 18-foot hull and rain water would exit without needing a pump, so why do I need a pump?
Thanks,
Don
jimh posted 08-04-2014 09:27 AM ET (US)
If you removed a screw fastener from the hull in the cockpit sump area, and water flows out of the hole in the hull, the source of the water is probably from water that has seeped into the foam surrounding that hole. There was an unfortunate tendency for Boston Whaler to install a lot of screw fasteners into the Unibond hulls of Boston Whaler boats without using any sort of sealer or caulk on the screws. Water can get into the hull if that fastener and its hole are submerged in water.
The purpose of having an electrical pump located in a cockpit sump is to remove the water that collects there. If you leave the through-hull drain of the cockpit sump open, there will always be water in the sump. The level the water will rise to will depend on how the hull is floating. If the hull has a heavy load, the water may rise above the sump level. The way to find out: pull the plug and see what happens.
Don SSDD posted 08-04-2014 10:19 AM ET (US)
As far as the screw hole goes, I'll leave it as is for now and remove it and all drains when I store it inside. After drying out all winter, I can then seal the screw hole.
I guess no real reason to fasten that bilge pump down in that small hole, it can't go anywhere or upset.
Thanks,
Don
Dave Sutton posted 08-04-2014 11:18 AM ET (US)
"My guess is this may have been a Canadian Coast Guard boat. They are the only ones I know of that would have had a need for red gel coat"

I mentioned this before when you were first describing your boat, and it's worth noting again: It's *much much much* more likely that this was a fire department rescue boat. Typically fire department Whalers are sold with red hulls. There are hundreds (thousands) of them around if you keep your eye open for them, and almost all of them are Guardian models.
Contrasting that, I've never seen a Canadian Coast Guard whaler (did they ever have them?) or USCG ones for that matter, (back when they had a few) in red, as believe it or not, for small low freeboard boats on open water, it's an absolutely terrible color for visibility. In low light it just looks grey. So... it's most likely surplus from some fire department or rescue squad someplace. It's VERY common for surplus public safety boats to be red.
Guardians are set up optionally with additional floatation, meaning that void spaces usually used for anchor lockers, etc., are glassed over and foamed. You might find Bomar hatches on the decks of some, etc. These are all design variations from the standard boats. This is what you have.
The water leaking out as you remove screws is a sign of water saturated foam. "Some" is sort of normal. Just shows that the boat has a few cracks or uinsealed screws allowing standing water to enter the foam. It's almost impossible to remove. If there is a "lot" (and you can use your own definition of that), it becomes a major problem. My guess is that yours is just "what it is" and nothing to really worry about.

Dave
.
Dave Sutton posted 08-04-2014 11:28 AM ET (US)
"I read in the manual you could leave the drains out in the 18-foot hull and rain water would exit without needing a pump, so why do I need a pump?"

Sorry, I hit "send" before finishing.
For when you are backing down to pick up a (fish, swimmer, diver, crab pot) and are boarded over the transom by blue-water that fills your boat to the gunwales? For when you are just fishing in the rain? Or taking a plastic bucket and splashing down the decks to slosh away fish blood or sand?
Start using the boat and you'll figure out why... ;-)

On my 'Tauk I have the largest Rule pump available screwed to the deck back in the starboard stern corner, and the normal small one in the sump. Counterintuitively enough, smaller boats "taken into danger" need more rapid dewatering capacity than a larger one.
Example 1: Take 500 gallons aboard the 'Tauk over the transom while backing down in a rip to pick up a spearfisherman and a fish and you are seconds away from loss of stability and capsizing. Been there, done that. The unsinkable Whalers float for sure... upside down. Dewater by using your excess power to run forward fast, sloshing water back over the transom, and pumping with the big pump, and then getting the last few gallons out with the "sump-pump" that you're looking at. You need to remove a BIG slug of water RIGHT NOW which means you need a REAL pump.
Example 2: Take 500 gallons of water aboard my 42 foot trawler thru a leaking hull fitting? <yawn>... I carry 1200 gallons of diesel and 600 of fresh water in tanks. 500 gallons in the bilge is a drop in the bucket. The smallest of 4 pumps (the one at the lowest level in the bilge) can pump for an hour to remove it. I would never notice.

So pumps are important, even on your "unsinkable fire boat". Unless you just leave it at the dock and don't actually use it as a boat....
Dave
.
Don SSDD posted 08-04-2014 01:04 PM ET (US)
Thanks Dave and Jim, I appreciate the education and learn from all posts.
Dave, I haven't seen any Whaler fire boats in use locally, but I have seen red hulls on Coast Guard vessels. This boat was originally sold by the Federal Government through their disposal system, so that is why I thought this one may be Coast Guard.
You might find this interesting reading about a Halifax fire boat. After the Halifax Fire dept tendered for a new boat, with a spec written so a "certain boat" would win, they were criticized when local boat builders complained about the spec and were told by local builders the boat that won would not do the job. The Halifax Fire dept said that there were no qualified boat builders locally. They were on their sea trials when the new boat sunk in the harbour in calm conditions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsizing_of_Halifax_fireboat_08-448B
Don

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Author	Topic: My 1991 Guardian 19 Bow Anchor Locker, Sump
Don SSDD	posted 08-04-2014 09:02 AM ET (US) The bow of my [1991 Boston Whaler GUARDIAN 19] has a smooth floor and the walls are smooth as well. There is no sign it ever had a locker, and no evidence of a drain on the hull exterior. Is this uncommon? The hull is red. My guess is this may have been a Canadian Coast Guard boat. They are the only ones I know of that would have had a need for red gel coat. It may have been used as a workboat off a larger vessel, so no need for an anchor locker. I was working on my bilge pump, a Rule with auto sensor, not the one that comes on and off every three minutes. The pump wouldn't shut off, so I took it out and unscrewed the blue screen from the bottom. I cleaned out all the water and debris in the sump area and the pump seems to be working OK now. The blue base or screen for the pump had one screw holding it down and when I removed the screw and dried out the sump area, there is a slow leak of water coming into the sump through the screw hole. What is under the sump? Where could this water be coming from? I read in the manual you could leave the drains out in the 18-foot hull and rain water would exit without needing a pump, so why do I need a pump? Thanks, Don
jimh	posted 08-04-2014 09:27 AM ET (US) If you removed a screw fastener from the hull in the cockpit sump area, and water flows out of the hole in the hull, the source of the water is probably from water that has seeped into the foam surrounding that hole. There was an unfortunate tendency for Boston Whaler to install a lot of screw fasteners into the Unibond hulls of Boston Whaler boats without using any sort of sealer or caulk on the screws. Water can get into the hull if that fastener and its hole are submerged in water. The purpose of having an electrical pump located in a cockpit sump is to remove the water that collects there. If you leave the through-hull drain of the cockpit sump open, there will always be water in the sump. The level the water will rise to will depend on how the hull is floating. If the hull has a heavy load, the water may rise above the sump level. The way to find out: pull the plug and see what happens.
Don SSDD	posted 08-04-2014 10:19 AM ET (US) As far as the screw hole goes, I'll leave it as is for now and remove it and all drains when I store it inside. After drying out all winter, I can then seal the screw hole. I guess no real reason to fasten that bilge pump down in that small hole, it can't go anywhere or upset. Thanks, Don
Dave Sutton	posted 08-04-2014 11:18 AM ET (US) "My guess is this may have been a Canadian Coast Guard boat. They are the only ones I know of that would have had a need for red gel coat" I mentioned this before when you were first describing your boat, and it's worth noting again: It's much much much more likely that this was a fire department rescue boat. Typically fire department Whalers are sold with red hulls. There are hundreds (thousands) of them around if you keep your eye open for them, and almost all of them are Guardian models. Contrasting that, I've never seen a Canadian Coast Guard whaler (did they ever have them?) or USCG ones for that matter, (back when they had a few) in red, as believe it or not, for small low freeboard boats on open water, it's an absolutely terrible color for visibility. In low light it just looks grey. So... it's most likely surplus from some fire department or rescue squad someplace. It's VERY common for surplus public safety boats to be red. Guardians are set up optionally with additional floatation, meaning that void spaces usually used for anchor lockers, etc., are glassed over and foamed. You might find Bomar hatches on the decks of some, etc. These are all design variations from the standard boats. This is what you have. The water leaking out as you remove screws is a sign of water saturated foam. "Some" is sort of normal. Just shows that the boat has a few cracks or uinsealed screws allowing standing water to enter the foam. It's almost impossible to remove. If there is a "lot" (and you can use your own definition of that), it becomes a major problem. My guess is that yours is just "what it is" and nothing to really worry about. Dave .
Dave Sutton	posted 08-04-2014 11:28 AM ET (US) "I read in the manual you could leave the drains out in the 18-foot hull and rain water would exit without needing a pump, so why do I need a pump?" Sorry, I hit "send" before finishing. For when you are backing down to pick up a (fish, swimmer, diver, crab pot) and are boarded over the transom by blue-water that fills your boat to the gunwales? For when you are just fishing in the rain? Or taking a plastic bucket and splashing down the decks to slosh away fish blood or sand? Start using the boat and you'll figure out why... ;-) On my 'Tauk I have the largest Rule pump available screwed to the deck back in the starboard stern corner, and the normal small one in the sump. Counterintuitively enough, smaller boats "taken into danger" need more rapid dewatering capacity than a larger one. Example 1: Take 500 gallons aboard the 'Tauk over the transom while backing down in a rip to pick up a spearfisherman and a fish and you are seconds away from loss of stability and capsizing. Been there, done that. The unsinkable Whalers float for sure... upside down. Dewater by using your excess power to run forward fast, sloshing water back over the transom, and pumping with the big pump, and then getting the last few gallons out with the "sump-pump" that you're looking at. You need to remove a BIG slug of water RIGHT NOW which means you need a REAL pump. Example 2: Take 500 gallons of water aboard my 42 foot trawler thru a leaking hull fitting? <yawn>... I carry 1200 gallons of diesel and 600 of fresh water in tanks. 500 gallons in the bilge is a drop in the bucket. The smallest of 4 pumps (the one at the lowest level in the bilge) can pump for an hour to remove it. I would never notice. So pumps are important, even on your "unsinkable fire boat". Unless you just leave it at the dock and don't actually use it as a boat.... Dave .
Don SSDD	posted 08-04-2014 01:04 PM ET (US) Thanks Dave and Jim, I appreciate the education and learn from all posts. Dave, I haven't seen any Whaler fire boats in use locally, but I have seen red hulls on Coast Guard vessels. This boat was originally sold by the Federal Government through their disposal system, so that is why I thought this one may be Coast Guard. You might find this interesting reading about a Halifax fire boat. After the Halifax Fire dept tendered for a new boat, with a spec written so a "certain boat" would win, they were criticized when local boat builders complained about the spec and were told by local builders the boat that won would not do the job. The Halifax Fire dept said that there were no qualified boat builders locally. They were on their sea trials when the new boat sunk in the harbour in calm conditions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsizing_of_Halifax_fireboat_08-448B Don