posted 08-18-2014 04:44 AM ET (US)        

I have been a proud and happy owner of a 1980 Revenge 22 powered by a 2008 Evinrude 225 Ficht, for almost 2 years now.

I love the boat, its classic style and class, stability, etc

The only thing is I find the boat to "BAM" a bit too much in heavier seas. My back does not quite like this...
I use to have a 1968 Bertram Bahia Mar 20, and I think that with its deeper vee, this boat wasn't "bamming" as much as the Revenge does... Well would have to compare the 2 boats on the same day to be sure, as the Revenge is probably faster too.

But, anyway, I possibly thinking about selling my Revenge. I have seen quite a few 23 Walkaround for sale at decent prices, and was wondering how this boat would behave comapared to the 22 Revenge.
The 23 Walkaround, with its much deeper vee, should offer a more comfortable ride. Is it the case ? I would love to hear your comments !
Also, is the 23 Walkaround OK with a single engine only (200 or 250 HP) ?

Any other boat suggestion are welcome, even if I would prefer to stay in the Whaler family. I have seen a very nice Pursuit 2200 Cuddy from the 80's the other day, looks like a great boat.
I like the Conquest too, but they will be too exepensive for me, as I want to stay in the $20 000 range, with one single modern engine.

posted 08-18-2014 07:05 AM ET (US)            

To re-power with twin V6 modern engines will be quite expensive. The owners are in a bit of a dilemma, as their boats are very expensive to operate with their present engines, and also very expensive to re-power with new engines that will reduce fuel consumption.

The 23 WALKAROUND boats were made c.1991, so they are over 20-years old now. Since most of them are found in saltwater areas, they are in various degrees of decline from new condition.

The 23 WALKAROUND is a more complex boat than a classic REVENGE 22. The 23 WALKAROUND has more systems. Usually they have a real head with a holding tank. There is also a raw water intake for flushing water for the head. They also typically have a complicated systems of pumps and drains on the cockpit live wells. Some models have sinks, faucets, and associated drains. Some have fresh water tanks. Some have 120-VAC shore power. Overall there is greater complexity in the systems on the 23 WALKAROUND. Since all of those components, hoses, drains, pumps, wiring, plumbing, etc. are also more than 20-years old, you may have to refurbish them. The classic REVENGE 22 is much simpler in comparison.

As for the difference is sea keeping, if your criterion is how fast you can run upwind into head seas, then I suspect that the 23 WALKAROUND may be more capable than the REVENGE 22. For other wave conditions, the classic hull may be as good or perhaps better, as when running down wind in a large following sea.

posted 08-18-2014 01:43 PM ET (US)            

quote:

---

The only thing is I find the boat to "BAM" a bit too much in heavier seas. My back does not quite like this...
I use to have a 1968 Bertram Bahia Mar 20, and I think that with its deeper vee, this boat wasn't "bamming" as much as the Revenge does... Well would have to compare the 2 boats on the same day to be sure, as the Revenge is probably faster too.

---

Whalers are know for there amazing strong buoyancy abilities. It seems the harder you try to push them down they stronger them become and pop up keeping you safe. Im talking mainly about the Outrages, Revenge and Walkarounds. The ride is not know to be all that soft and that includes the bigger ones as well. Other companies out there do make boats with softer smoother ride through rough water. However I have noticed first hand that most Whalers the bow stays down and pushes through the waves yes it may hurt a bit but it feels like a much bigger boat and has some other characteristics of them as well.

Its true when mentioned that a Boston Whaler feels more like 2 feet larger then its size. For instance a 20 foot Grady White will have a much softer ride, even softer then a very large classic Whaler, but the bow pops up like a yo yo which puts you on the throttle a great deal to control the boat. It reminds me of a mini bomber style boat. It still is a very nice boat indeed but I never really experienced that with a Whaler Revenge or Outrage. Their strengths are in buoyancy, dry ride for the most part certain models being way better then others and yes really well built most of them. They will rattle your bones a bit.

posted 08-18-2014 02:57 PM ET (US)            

I had not taken into account the "complexity" of the 23' Walkaround indeed, your reply helps a lot. Particularly about thinking twice before selling my simple, single (modern) engine 22 Revenge.

But, I do live on the Mediterranean in the South of France, and I have to admit that we do have a very choppy/short swell sea, where a deeper vee would probably help, at least going upwind indeed. Revenges/Outrages are such beauties going/surfing downwind indeed, or even with swell sideways.

So, you confirm, a single 200 or 250 HP engine on a 23 Walkaround would not work ?

Anyone else has compared or had the chance to ride enough in these 2 boats ?

posted 08-18-2014 03:02 PM ET (US)            

Hopefully we will hear more people who have tried a 23 Walkaround.

posted 08-18-2014 09:08 PM ET (US)            

Having owned a 22 Outrage (same hull as a Revenge) and a 23 WALKAROUND Whaler Drive (currently) I can say the WALKAROUND's deep-v provides a much better ride in nearly all conditions than the moderate v of the classic hull. The only time the 23 can provide problems is when running on plane in following quarter seas. If you run the hull with the bow trimmed too low in those conditions the hull wants to steer itself as it surfs down one wave and the bow dives into the next wave. The wave action here in the Great Lakes can make this more pronounced.

I really like the helm station on the 23 over the Classic hulls as you are 12-18 inches higher when at the helm. The 23 also provides a larger are more comfortable cabin and other features than the classic hull.

Being that you are Europe you can find some 23 WALKAROUND's that are diesel out-drive powered which would be great. If you are looking at a notched standard transom you could run a single 250. If you are looking at a Whaler Drive I would never power that hull with a single. You need the twins to maneuver that hull in low speed situations. And a Whaler Drive needs at least twin 150's. A single on the Whaler Drive bracket would be disastrous trying to dock in a cross wind.

For reference here is our 23 WALKAROUND Whaler Drive

posted 08-18-2014 09:30 PM ET (US)            

quote:

---

Tonio posted 08-18-2014 04:44 AM ET (US)

... owner of a 1980 Revenge 22 powered by a 2008 Evinrude 225 Ficht...

---

posted 08-18-2014 10:36 PM ET (US)            

If I do look for one, it will be without a Whaler Drive (I don't like this feeling you described of the Whaler Drive forcing the boat to surf down the swell. This is what happens too on my dad's 25 Outrage WD), so looks like a single 250 could do the job. Do you think a 200 or 225 HP with enough torque could work ?

posted 08-19-2014 08:13 AM ET (US)            

As mentioned, the 23 WALKAROUND was available with a notched transom or with a very long Whaler Drive bracket. The models with the Whaler Drive bracket are really quite different. They have a full transom with a transom gate to access the Whaler Drive, which makes a very nice swim platform. The Whaler Drive must be about three-feet long. It adds a great deal to the boat. I concur with Jeff: a 23 WALKAROUND Whaler Drive would need twin engines. It is a much longer boat than the 23 WALKAROUND notched transom model.

The engine rigging on the 23 WALKAROUND Whaler Drive is very unique. The engine harness and hoses run aft and then down, going through the interior of the Whaler Drive toward the transom. Jeff (and his father) are the experts on the configuration of this rigging. One area of concern is the condition of the large diameter rigging hoses. These should be water-tight.

Another variation on the 23 WALKAROUND is the hardtop. And even in the hardtop, I think there is further variation, as some have opening gull-wing hatches and some don't.

posted 08-20-2014 12:14 AM ET (US)            

The Whaler Drive does not cause or force the hull to
Surf down the wave. All hulls do that when running with the seas. That is not the problem I was describing anyhow. Characteristic I was referencing is the pronounced Bow Steer when the hull impacts and tries to run up the next wave after riding down "surfing" the previous one.

The bow steer is common on both the notched transom and Whaler Drive 23 Walkaround models. It is most present if you are running with the bow trimmed too far down in those conditions. Trimming up and getting the bow up helps greatly, but the phenomenon will never go away due the the hull's design. On the 23 the bow keel has a very steep deadrise and the bow keel is far deeper than the stern keel at displacement speeds. So, when you are on plane this causes the bow to want to steer out of an oncoming wave when impacting it at an glancing / oblique angle. While the classic hulls do this too, I find I have to fight the 23 hull more in those conditions. That said, it is a small percentage of the running time that we encounter these conditions. And overall the 23 hull far out performs the classic 22.

Jim's note about the hull at slower speeds wanting to fall off plane is correct. Because of the aggressive deadrise in the v the hull is happiest with power behind it. The new fuel injected motors will elevate this problem. And if you are running carbureted motors, 4 blade props will make a huge difference in being able to keep the hull on plane and slow speeds.

posted 08-21-2014 11:27 AM ET (US)            

Do you think the 23 WA is still manoeuvrable enough and easy to use compared to the Revenge (or Outrage) 22 for just going for a quick wakerboarding session, or a short picnic along the coast every other two days ? Because, this should still be 80% of my use. Going "offshore" or longer distances/rides will be the other 20%, here and then.
I am sure you got me: I do not want to loose the "everyday easyness" of my Revenge (even if mine is not a "Walk Thru" version, which does not make the circulation/access from the bow that easy, especially with babies or small children) if I decide to go for the 23 WA soon. Another point is I am sure the cuddy of the 23 WA is more comfortable and adapted to a proper "family" or mini-cruise use, isn't it ?

posted 08-21-2014 01:12 PM ET (US)            

The catalog minimum horse power for the 23 Walkaround Whaler Drive model is 275 and the 23 Walkaround Outboard model is 225.

I would support the idea of 300 horse power as a better minimum for the 23 Walkaround Whaler Drive model.

The 23 Walkaround is heavier than the 22 Revenge and has a deeper V.

I have yet to experience a sea were my 23 while running with Jim's 22 Revenge had to back off before the 22 did. Generally speaking the 23 handles rough seas better than the 22 Revenge. I should also say that the difference is not that much. We have only experienced a few seas were the 22 Revenge could not keep up. I do think that in a head sea the Revenge bangs on some waves while the 23 cuts through them.

The 23 Walkaround Whaler Drive does not like to run a straight line at slow speeds in a following sea off the stern quarter, while the 22 appears to not care about those conditions.

As far as bow steer, the 23 has a deep V compared to the 22 Revenge, the deeper the V the more bow steer you will get. I grew up on a 28 Bertram so bow steer is not a big deal to me. Don't get me wrong I do not think the 23 has excessive bow steer. It is not a concern.

The 23 Wlakaround Whaelr Drive without trim tabs will stay on plane at about 25-26 MPH in 1-2 foot seas. If the waves are bigger the boat drops off plane unless you can go a little faster. With trim tabs down she will run on plane in calm to gentle waves at 20 MPH and bigger stuff at about 23-25. Like Jim's 22 Revenge the 23 Walkaround will drop into a plow at about 17 MPH and just cruise through the waves. This Speed is very fuel inefficient.

Below is a link to a go-pro video we shot this August . The camera is mounted on the top of the spot light on top of the hard top of the Holly Marie. The boat in the video is Continuouswave Jim's 22 revenge.

http://s18.photobucket.com/user/johndraby/media/ Go-pro%20river%20August%202014/GOPR0156_zpsce325c92.mp4.html?sort=3&o=0

I do not agree with Hoosier's statement about the cabin. We deliberately looked for a 23 Walkaround with an inclosed head compartment. You give up some cabin space but the convince of the stand up head is very nice.

posted 08-21-2014 01:24 PM ET (US)            

I am not really getting why the 23 Walkaround needs that much more power than the 22 Revenge, as the 23 WA is only about 300 pounds heavier than the Revenge.