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Author Topic:   Help Needed: 1995 Justice 17

claytonb78 posted 08-18-2014 03:27 PM ET (US)
Hello,
I need your help. I have been in the market for an Outrage boat for a while and am considering pulling the trigger on a 1995 Justice 17 I found. It looks to be in great condition and I am new to Whalers so I had a few questions.
The boat is a 1995 Justice 17 (Coast Guard plate says Outrage 17 but it's clearly the Police Justice version to include the higher weight capacity and larger motor ratings). It appears to be in excellent condition (extremely clean) with a nice 150 HP Mercury 2.5L 2 Stroke. We haven't done a water test yet but the hydraulics worked flawlessly. Also, for those curious, it's priced at $8,500 which I am pretty sure is an excellent deal. The seller bought the boat at an auction and appears to be going for a quick sale.
A few questions:
1) Does anyone know the weight of this boat and fuel capacity? I searched for info on Justice models and there's little. I assume it's close to the Outrage 17 but am curious if the Justice had a larger fuel tank.
2) Any particular items I should thoroughly check on a 20 year old whaler? The motor, hydraulics, and hull look solid except for a few small chips in the gel coat. I opened the fuel door and only smell faint fuel smell...nothing over powering.
Photos can be found at
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/101685560550749807330/albums/ 6048985062885269201 and I will try to post some below.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-nf7fJb4rFF8/U_JQMKBs2ZI/AAAAAAAAAno/p0oW1on-WZY/w1024-h768-no/IMG_0045.JPG
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-yOpnhcdRkTs/U_JQNtjqL4I/AAAAAAAAAnk/4Co_g71MOBs/w1024-h768-no/IMG_0047.JPG
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_pe3ld1c3Ow/U_JP3gXsc3I/AAAAAAAAAoY/X_KeiXad8PA/w1024-h768-no/IMG_0001.JPG
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-1qoDejaN5_U/U_JP32kN9NI/AAAAAAAAAoY/NCjg320HrYg/w1024-h768-no/IMG_0003.JPG
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-kl9nUeeE6NY/U_JP45NhFtI/AAAAAAAAAkw/-Qo6fKko5os/w1024-h768-no/IMG_0007.JPG
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-DAsqRqPhsPo/U_JQIFiAk3I/AAAAAAAAAoY/RXhFZu4sESQ/w1024-h768-no/IMG_0036.JPG

claytonb78 posted 08-18-2014 03:33 PM ET (US)
I am sorry but it looks like I cannot upload images. [You cannot create in-line images. I changed all of your image links to anchor links.--jimh]
a3matrix posted 08-18-2014 04:37 PM ET (US)
I can't help you with your questions but just wanted to let you know I posted a link to a 1993 19' Alert in the for sale area. Not my boat but one you may want to consider. Good luck.
saumon posted 08-18-2014 05:05 PM ET (US)
Must be 1996 or newer because it has the Accutrak hull. That is why the specs you found are off. Search for the Outrage 17 II.
Jeff posted 08-18-2014 05:08 PM ET (US)
#1) The 17 justice had a hull weight of 1825# and a fuel capacity of 54 gallons.
#2) There is a lot to inspect on a 20 year old Whaler.
I would inspect for spot spots in the fuel tank cover and cockpit floor.
I would a have mechanical inspection of the motor done - Compression and leak down test on the cylinders. I would have the lower unit inspected -Inspect the oil, vacuum test the seals and inspect for metal shavings. Also pull the fuel water separator and fuel filter for debris and contamination.
I would inspect all of major impact areas on the bottom of the hull for signs of weeping water.
If you want to buy in, I would do a full sea trail of the boat. Put it in and see how it floats. Make sure it does not sit heavy like it could be waterlogged. Then run the boat at idle in gear, on plane are varying throttle settings and at wide open throttle. A true sea trail is not a quick out and back. I would spend a 30 – 60 minutes running the boat in various settings.
claytonb78 posted 08-18-2014 06:01 PM ET (US)
Thank you. I should also note, the hour meter read 838 hours. Still, the boat is very clean and I will make sure she is thoroughly inspected with a sea trial.
And thank you for the note on the Outrage 17 II. That looks to be right as the capacity plate weights and engine size match up. Thank you! Happy to see a larger fuel tank on her.
dnh posted 08-18-2014 11:05 PM ET (US)
That is a great boat. My friend has owned a 1996 Outrage 17 for fifteen years or more. At that price the boat is a good deal. Make sure the tank looks ok and not rusted. But overall that's a great boat.
dnh posted 08-18-2014 11:07 PM ET (US)
A few of those dings in the bow appear to go to the foam. The boat doesn't have bottom paint so it shouldn't matter (not likely waterlogged). Regardless I would get those repaired.
claytonb78 posted 08-18-2014 11:13 PM ET (US)
Thank you dnh. I really am liking this boat and while I originally wanted the Outrage 18, this boat is only a foot shorter, I think 2 inches narrower, and it only holds a few gallons less of fuel. I'd like to use it for fishing so I'd likely add seat cushions and the cooler but other than that...she seems like a great first step into the Whaler world.
And I'd definitely seal/fill the chips in the gel coat...nothing seems too significant. Minor fiberglass is exposed so I, still a newbie, think it is ok.
I will likely do a water test later this week and make a final decision then. Thank you for all the advice. Please keep it coming.
vze2gbs4 posted 08-21-2014 09:06 PM ET (US)
To own a whaler and having scratches and damages that are below waterline open beyond gelcoat is a criminal act in whalertown. Each time you go out that fiber will suck water into foam like a thirsty camel in the dessert. I would never understand an owner that would continue boating like its not there. Once foam gets wet its there forever . It doesnt take a rocket scientist to repair it specially when no bottom paint is present . Its a nice boat and this is one of first 10 hulls of 17 II with accutrack ordered from the factory for the Virginia wildlife reserve ( spoke to Chuck down in factory. This may be as well hull number 1 and mother of all others 17 outrage and justices that followed.
If you buy it get that repaired ASAP. Spectrum sells original grey gelcoat for that year .I would also drill the keel every 10-15 inches and see what kind of water weeping it has.
Tanks look original. It is a ticking bomb and just a maytter of time when it does start leaking,17 are notorius for this because of poor drainage and hole that was positioned higher than it should be and always has trapped water .I did 2 surgeries on 17 outrages and its not complicated but if you are not handy and has to be done by pro bill will still be in thousands.
Good luck regardless what you do. Remember you will be repowering her very soon and consider this in the cost of the boat. I would personally pass and spend few extra bucks and wait for clean 17 that has newer engine and its not abused by commercial guys or this careless owner.
andygere posted 08-22-2014 03:34 PM ET (US)

quote:
that fiber will suck water into foam like a thirsty camel in the dessert
What mechanism allows a resin saturated glass fiber to transmit water through the laminate to the foam?
This is not an accurate statement, and while I agree that chipped gelcoat should be repaired, it does not equate to having a waterlogged hull. Punctures through the laminate are a different story.
vze2gbs4 posted 08-22-2014 04:39 PM ET (US)
Water pressure-those chips are at the worst possible spot-
I never said boat is water logged- but how long it has been exposed like that ?-I repaired enough whaler chips beyond gelcoat to know what I am talking about-I will repeat again-open chip beyond waterline on boston whaler is either a deal killer or huge discount negotiating option -ever tried drying one -it will drip for months-would you buy this boat ?
Man is first time buyer and needs opinion-let him start the right way or he will hate boating from day one .
claytonb78 posted 08-23-2014 12:56 AM ET (US)
@vze2gbs4, Thank you so much for taking the time to share your own advice and experiences. This is my first fiberglass boat and I've been doing a lot of reading and research for months now. I would most definitely repair the gelcoat immediately and appreciate the recommendation for the Spectrum product.
Question, should I consider removing the center counsel and examining the fuel tank this winter or is it better to just do a pressure test and then go from there? I've seen a few articles on fuel tank replacements and I think I'd be up to the task...and if the tank isn't too pricey...it could be a good winter project.
For those curious, my friend and I inspected the boat, I made an offer, and it was accepted. Only catch is the seller doesn't have the titles issued to him yet...so I let him know I'd be patient but he needs to get those ASAP.
I pulled off the engine cowl on the Mercury and was absolutely amazed how clean it was. I swear you could take a white glove to it and not get any dirt on you. The lower has fresh oil, all the spark plugs were clean...and best of all, all 6 cylinders compression was between 116-120. If I didn't know this motor was on a 1995/1996 Whaler, I would have sworn it was brand new. I will keep everyone posted how things go and truly appreciate the advice.
@vze2gbs4, one more question. You mentioned drilling holes in the keel every 10-15 inches to see what kind of water comes out. Just to confirm, this is a good idea/practice with a boat? Will this be easy to repair/cover once any/all water drains? I'm ok doing this to hopefully drain any standing water but have never heard of doing this to a hull...it's usually drilling into the foam from the top I thought.
anyhow, total newbie here so any/all advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you.
claytonb78 posted 08-23-2014 01:04 AM ET (US)
All,
For those curious, the Whaler website has a good/quick read on how to deal with water in the hull: http://www.bostonwhaler.com/Page.aspx/pageId/45620/page.aspx. I'm bookmarking this as well as adding inspecting & likely replacing any damaged thru hull drains. Might be a no brainer to most of you but I didn't think of it...yet.
vze2gbs4 posted 08-23-2014 11:56 PM ET (US)
Clayton-send email and I will send you my phone number and all the advice and help I can think off-I did talk to Walt regarding this boat btw
vze2gbs4 posted 08-24-2014 12:12 AM ET (US)
Dont touch that tank until you have a breach-you will know that by having gas mixed with water in fish box right next to it(and very strong odor).dont even think of doing pressure test to see if it holds-collapsing the walls on 20 year old tank could damage side welds .You only drill those weeping keel holes if you are certain shes water logged.whats easiest way to check that -leave her on the sun without rain few days-jack down stern (end of boat )jacked up so all water moves forward-let her stay like that few days-if those chips start dripping you have a problem
dnh posted 08-24-2014 12:33 PM ET (US)
You don't need to drill holes in the boat. You don't need to take the boat apart and replace the tank.
I had a 1995 Outrage 21 that I owned for years. I never had any problems with the tank leaking. It looked just like yours does under the hatch. My buddy has had a 1996 Outrage 17 which is the exact same hull as your boat (minus you having more fiberglass due to the commercial layup) and has never had any tank problems. If you did have to replace it, all you have to do is remove the deck, which is simply bolted on. I recently had a custom aluminum tank made for $300.00 - you may be able to find out the original manufacturer.
The boat has been sitting on a trailer for a long time it appears and should not have water in the hull.
I have a 1986 15 Sport which had about 5 places where the fiberglass was totally gone and foam exposed over the years. It even sat in the water a few years. We recently cut the deck with a saw and removed ALL THE FOAM in an area where the new custom tank was going.
There was zero water in the hull. In my opinion, anyone who is giving you outlandish recommendations other than simply enjoying the boat is being a nit-picker. Its not in perfect condition, but its a pretty dern good boat. You say the Merc is clean.
Even if the Merc was blown, I would buy the boat. You can drop a 4 Stroke on it if you want to one day. My Outrage 21 was purchased in 2007 for $15,000 with a blown engine. I put a Yamaha F250 on it and loved it. Your boat can handle a F115 just fine, or even an F150 (will need trim tabs). I don't know the weight of similar Mercs. Merc just came out with a new line of 4 Strokes, so I assume the technology is better than the Yamaha F115 or F150, both of which are growing long in the tooth but great motors.
Enjoy the boat. It is not necessarily unusual to have no title on a previously used DNR boat. Sure, you want to check it out, but if you can to a search on the HIN or something, or trace back who the guy got it from, etc., its not likely a deal breaker. The chance that some guy stole a 20 year old boat and is selling it for $8000 and that you are going to end up having someone come claim they own it is not really quite the same risk as say, not having clean title on your house.
Finally, and sorry for the long post, but you could easily add creature comforts to the boat like a bow cushion, and rear quarter seat panels, and a cooler seat with cushion. The OEM manufacturers can be found at http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/OEM.html#upholstery
Among other places. My buddy took the leaning post out of his Outrage 17 and added two Garelick chairs, which were the same set up I had on my Outrage 21. Worked very nicely.
martyn1075 posted 08-24-2014 12:56 PM ET (US)
As a seller I would never ever give permission to drill holes in my boat prior to an agreement and payment received. In fact I would likely say good luck with search and move on. If I felt the boat I was going to buy had water in it or found by resonable tests I would certainly not buy it in the first place, and then check to see if the boat has water by drilling holes after. How could you ever sleep at night. It's stressful enough buying a boat in the first place. I remember having the worst buyers remorse possible. It ended up being just fine in fact the boat was better then fine and exactly as advertised. However I was working a bit backwards as I didn't have it checked out as thoroughly as I normally would have and therefore I was feeling as though I was always going to encounter a problem. It's normal to feel suspicious all I can say is get it looked at professionally as well check the story from the seller. A certain amount of trust has to be found as we are dealing with a used boat. If the story has flaws they can be caught with a key eye and questions that target a lie.
fishinchips posted 08-24-2014 01:50 PM ET (US)
there is a 18' outrage without outboards on ebay now.
check it out. Looks to be NOT the original pilot seat.
fishinchips posted 08-24-2014 01:55 PM ET (US)
check out the whaler marketplace section. There is some 18' outrage's that are for sale.

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Author	Topic: Help Needed: 1995 Justice 17
claytonb78	posted 08-18-2014 03:27 PM ET (US) Hello, I need your help. I have been in the market for an Outrage boat for a while and am considering pulling the trigger on a 1995 Justice 17 I found. It looks to be in great condition and I am new to Whalers so I had a few questions. The boat is a 1995 Justice 17 (Coast Guard plate says Outrage 17 but it's clearly the Police Justice version to include the higher weight capacity and larger motor ratings). It appears to be in excellent condition (extremely clean) with a nice 150 HP Mercury 2.5L 2 Stroke. We haven't done a water test yet but the hydraulics worked flawlessly. Also, for those curious, it's priced at $8,500 which I am pretty sure is an excellent deal. The seller bought the boat at an auction and appears to be going for a quick sale. A few questions: 1) Does anyone know the weight of this boat and fuel capacity? I searched for info on Justice models and there's little. I assume it's close to the Outrage 17 but am curious if the Justice had a larger fuel tank. 2) Any particular items I should thoroughly check on a 20 year old whaler? The motor, hydraulics, and hull look solid except for a few small chips in the gel coat. I opened the fuel door and only smell faint fuel smell...nothing over powering. Photos can be found at https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/101685560550749807330/albums/ 6048985062885269201 and I will try to post some below. https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-nf7fJb4rFF8/U_JQMKBs2ZI/AAAAAAAAAno/p0oW1on-WZY/w1024-h768-no/IMG_0045.JPG https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-yOpnhcdRkTs/U_JQNtjqL4I/AAAAAAAAAnk/4Co_g71MOBs/w1024-h768-no/IMG_0047.JPG https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_pe3ld1c3Ow/U_JP3gXsc3I/AAAAAAAAAoY/X_KeiXad8PA/w1024-h768-no/IMG_0001.JPG https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-1qoDejaN5_U/U_JP32kN9NI/AAAAAAAAAoY/NCjg320HrYg/w1024-h768-no/IMG_0003.JPG https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-kl9nUeeE6NY/U_JP45NhFtI/AAAAAAAAAkw/-Qo6fKko5os/w1024-h768-no/IMG_0007.JPG https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-DAsqRqPhsPo/U_JQIFiAk3I/AAAAAAAAAoY/RXhFZu4sESQ/w1024-h768-no/IMG_0036.JPG
claytonb78	posted 08-18-2014 03:33 PM ET (US) I am sorry but it looks like I cannot upload images. [You cannot create in-line images. I changed all of your image links to anchor links.--jimh]
a3matrix	posted 08-18-2014 04:37 PM ET (US) I can't help you with your questions but just wanted to let you know I posted a link to a 1993 19' Alert in the for sale area. Not my boat but one you may want to consider. Good luck.
saumon	posted 08-18-2014 05:05 PM ET (US) Must be 1996 or newer because it has the Accutrak hull. That is why the specs you found are off. Search for the Outrage 17 II.
Jeff	posted 08-18-2014 05:08 PM ET (US) #1) The 17 justice had a hull weight of 1825# and a fuel capacity of 54 gallons. #2) There is a lot to inspect on a 20 year old Whaler. I would inspect for spot spots in the fuel tank cover and cockpit floor. I would a have mechanical inspection of the motor done - Compression and leak down test on the cylinders. I would have the lower unit inspected -Inspect the oil, vacuum test the seals and inspect for metal shavings. Also pull the fuel water separator and fuel filter for debris and contamination. I would inspect all of major impact areas on the bottom of the hull for signs of weeping water. If you want to buy in, I would do a full sea trail of the boat. Put it in and see how it floats. Make sure it does not sit heavy like it could be waterlogged. Then run the boat at idle in gear, on plane are varying throttle settings and at wide open throttle. A true sea trail is not a quick out and back. I would spend a 30 – 60 minutes running the boat in various settings.
claytonb78	posted 08-18-2014 06:01 PM ET (US) Thank you. I should also note, the hour meter read 838 hours. Still, the boat is very clean and I will make sure she is thoroughly inspected with a sea trial. And thank you for the note on the Outrage 17 II. That looks to be right as the capacity plate weights and engine size match up. Thank you! Happy to see a larger fuel tank on her.
dnh	posted 08-18-2014 11:05 PM ET (US) That is a great boat. My friend has owned a 1996 Outrage 17 for fifteen years or more. At that price the boat is a good deal. Make sure the tank looks ok and not rusted. But overall that's a great boat.
dnh	posted 08-18-2014 11:07 PM ET (US) A few of those dings in the bow appear to go to the foam. The boat doesn't have bottom paint so it shouldn't matter (not likely waterlogged). Regardless I would get those repaired.
claytonb78	posted 08-18-2014 11:13 PM ET (US) Thank you dnh. I really am liking this boat and while I originally wanted the Outrage 18, this boat is only a foot shorter, I think 2 inches narrower, and it only holds a few gallons less of fuel. I'd like to use it for fishing so I'd likely add seat cushions and the cooler but other than that...she seems like a great first step into the Whaler world. And I'd definitely seal/fill the chips in the gel coat...nothing seems too significant. Minor fiberglass is exposed so I, still a newbie, think it is ok. I will likely do a water test later this week and make a final decision then. Thank you for all the advice. Please keep it coming.
vze2gbs4	posted 08-21-2014 09:06 PM ET (US) To own a whaler and having scratches and damages that are below waterline open beyond gelcoat is a criminal act in whalertown. Each time you go out that fiber will suck water into foam like a thirsty camel in the dessert. I would never understand an owner that would continue boating like its not there. Once foam gets wet its there forever . It doesnt take a rocket scientist to repair it specially when no bottom paint is present . Its a nice boat and this is one of first 10 hulls of 17 II with accutrack ordered from the factory for the Virginia wildlife reserve ( spoke to Chuck down in factory. This may be as well hull number 1 and mother of all others 17 outrage and justices that followed. If you buy it get that repaired ASAP. Spectrum sells original grey gelcoat for that year .I would also drill the keel every 10-15 inches and see what kind of water weeping it has. Tanks look original. It is a ticking bomb and just a maytter of time when it does start leaking,17 are notorius for this because of poor drainage and hole that was positioned higher than it should be and always has trapped water .I did 2 surgeries on 17 outrages and its not complicated but if you are not handy and has to be done by pro bill will still be in thousands. Good luck regardless what you do. Remember you will be repowering her very soon and consider this in the cost of the boat. I would personally pass and spend few extra bucks and wait for clean 17 that has newer engine and its not abused by commercial guys or this careless owner.
andygere	posted 08-22-2014 03:34 PM ET (US) quote: that fiber will suck water into foam like a thirsty camel in the dessert What mechanism allows a resin saturated glass fiber to transmit water through the laminate to the foam? This is not an accurate statement, and while I agree that chipped gelcoat should be repaired, it does not equate to having a waterlogged hull. Punctures through the laminate are a different story.
vze2gbs4	posted 08-22-2014 04:39 PM ET (US) Water pressure-those chips are at the worst possible spot- I never said boat is water logged- but how long it has been exposed like that ?-I repaired enough whaler chips beyond gelcoat to know what I am talking about-I will repeat again-open chip beyond waterline on boston whaler is either a deal killer or huge discount negotiating option -ever tried drying one -it will drip for months-would you buy this boat ? Man is first time buyer and needs opinion-let him start the right way or he will hate boating from day one .
claytonb78	posted 08-23-2014 12:56 AM ET (US) @vze2gbs4, Thank you so much for taking the time to share your own advice and experiences. This is my first fiberglass boat and I've been doing a lot of reading and research for months now. I would most definitely repair the gelcoat immediately and appreciate the recommendation for the Spectrum product. Question, should I consider removing the center counsel and examining the fuel tank this winter or is it better to just do a pressure test and then go from there? I've seen a few articles on fuel tank replacements and I think I'd be up to the task...and if the tank isn't too pricey...it could be a good winter project. For those curious, my friend and I inspected the boat, I made an offer, and it was accepted. Only catch is the seller doesn't have the titles issued to him yet...so I let him know I'd be patient but he needs to get those ASAP. I pulled off the engine cowl on the Mercury and was absolutely amazed how clean it was. I swear you could take a white glove to it and not get any dirt on you. The lower has fresh oil, all the spark plugs were clean...and best of all, all 6 cylinders compression was between 116-120. If I didn't know this motor was on a 1995/1996 Whaler, I would have sworn it was brand new. I will keep everyone posted how things go and truly appreciate the advice. @vze2gbs4, one more question. You mentioned drilling holes in the keel every 10-15 inches to see what kind of water comes out. Just to confirm, this is a good idea/practice with a boat? Will this be easy to repair/cover once any/all water drains? I'm ok doing this to hopefully drain any standing water but have never heard of doing this to a hull...it's usually drilling into the foam from the top I thought. anyhow, total newbie here so any/all advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you.
claytonb78	posted 08-23-2014 01:04 AM ET (US) All, For those curious, the Whaler website has a good/quick read on how to deal with water in the hull: http://www.bostonwhaler.com/Page.aspx/pageId/45620/page.aspx. I'm bookmarking this as well as adding inspecting & likely replacing any damaged thru hull drains. Might be a no brainer to most of you but I didn't think of it...yet.
vze2gbs4	posted 08-23-2014 11:56 PM ET (US) Clayton-send email and I will send you my phone number and all the advice and help I can think off-I did talk to Walt regarding this boat btw
vze2gbs4	posted 08-24-2014 12:12 AM ET (US) Dont touch that tank until you have a breach-you will know that by having gas mixed with water in fish box right next to it(and very strong odor).dont even think of doing pressure test to see if it holds-collapsing the walls on 20 year old tank could damage side welds .You only drill those weeping keel holes if you are certain shes water logged.whats easiest way to check that -leave her on the sun without rain few days-jack down stern (end of boat )jacked up so all water moves forward-let her stay like that few days-if those chips start dripping you have a problem
dnh	posted 08-24-2014 12:33 PM ET (US) You don't need to drill holes in the boat. You don't need to take the boat apart and replace the tank. I had a 1995 Outrage 21 that I owned for years. I never had any problems with the tank leaking. It looked just like yours does under the hatch. My buddy has had a 1996 Outrage 17 which is the exact same hull as your boat (minus you having more fiberglass due to the commercial layup) and has never had any tank problems. If you did have to replace it, all you have to do is remove the deck, which is simply bolted on. I recently had a custom aluminum tank made for $300.00 - you may be able to find out the original manufacturer. The boat has been sitting on a trailer for a long time it appears and should not have water in the hull. I have a 1986 15 Sport which had about 5 places where the fiberglass was totally gone and foam exposed over the years. It even sat in the water a few years. We recently cut the deck with a saw and removed ALL THE FOAM in an area where the new custom tank was going. There was zero water in the hull. In my opinion, anyone who is giving you outlandish recommendations other than simply enjoying the boat is being a nit-picker. Its not in perfect condition, but its a pretty dern good boat. You say the Merc is clean. Even if the Merc was blown, I would buy the boat. You can drop a 4 Stroke on it if you want to one day. My Outrage 21 was purchased in 2007 for $15,000 with a blown engine. I put a Yamaha F250 on it and loved it. Your boat can handle a F115 just fine, or even an F150 (will need trim tabs). I don't know the weight of similar Mercs. Merc just came out with a new line of 4 Strokes, so I assume the technology is better than the Yamaha F115 or F150, both of which are growing long in the tooth but great motors. Enjoy the boat. It is not necessarily unusual to have no title on a previously used DNR boat. Sure, you want to check it out, but if you can to a search on the HIN or something, or trace back who the guy got it from, etc., its not likely a deal breaker. The chance that some guy stole a 20 year old boat and is selling it for $8000 and that you are going to end up having someone come claim they own it is not really quite the same risk as say, not having clean title on your house. Finally, and sorry for the long post, but you could easily add creature comforts to the boat like a bow cushion, and rear quarter seat panels, and a cooler seat with cushion. The OEM manufacturers can be found at http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/OEM.html#upholstery Among other places. My buddy took the leaning post out of his Outrage 17 and added two Garelick chairs, which were the same set up I had on my Outrage 21. Worked very nicely.
martyn1075	posted 08-24-2014 12:56 PM ET (US) As a seller I would never ever give permission to drill holes in my boat prior to an agreement and payment received. In fact I would likely say good luck with search and move on. If I felt the boat I was going to buy had water in it or found by resonable tests I would certainly not buy it in the first place, and then check to see if the boat has water by drilling holes after. How could you ever sleep at night. It's stressful enough buying a boat in the first place. I remember having the worst buyers remorse possible. It ended up being just fine in fact the boat was better then fine and exactly as advertised. However I was working a bit backwards as I didn't have it checked out as thoroughly as I normally would have and therefore I was feeling as though I was always going to encounter a problem. It's normal to feel suspicious all I can say is get it looked at professionally as well check the story from the seller. A certain amount of trust has to be found as we are dealing with a used boat. If the story has flaws they can be caught with a key eye and questions that target a lie.
fishinchips	posted 08-24-2014 01:50 PM ET (US) there is a 18' outrage without outboards on ebay now. check it out. Looks to be NOT the original pilot seat.
fishinchips	posted 08-24-2014 01:55 PM ET (US) check out the whaler marketplace section. There is some 18' outrage's that are for sale.