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Author Topic:   Marine Rail System

kmev posted 08-28-2014 10:44 PM ET (US)
I am considering a marine rail system instead of a boat lift, such as those made by Endres:
http://www.endresmfg.com/track.htm
It is for a fresh water inland lake with a small rip rap shoreline, and will be used with a 1975 Outrage 21. A major advantage I see is the ability to assemble/disassemble the rails by hand (which come in 10-foot sections at <100 lbs./section), negating the need and cost of a crane to remove/replace a boat lift each season.
Does anyone have any experience with a rail system or can provide any feedback on them? The water at my pier can drop to as little 2 feet some seasons.
Dave Sutton posted 08-29-2014 08:50 AM ET (US)
Fresh water lake? Depends on where, "down south" or "up north"? If up north, then one word is a dealbreaker: Ice.
If that's not a problem, from the perspective of a diver who's done commercial work putting in these things in years past:
If you want to install one, brush up on underwater concrete pouring, because you'll need good footings as well. This is not hard to do, actually, but does require a bit of extra logistics. You'll want to pre-build boxes as forms, and then will need to place them and then do concrete pours from a boat. You could also have piles driven down to grade and then attach to the top of those, it all depends on the resources available wherever you are.
You *will* be hiring a diver... ;-)
Dave
.

kmev posted 08-29-2014 11:01 PM ET (US)
Yes, there is ice. That is why it has to be removed every season. Concrete footings? We're obviously not talking about the same thing. The rail system I'm talking about has less submerged weight than a lift but has far more feet, so settling into a sand bottom isn't an issue with steel pads on the bottom of the legs. And while I am a diver, I don't need scuba gear for the 2-4 feet that my existing pier resides in.
Jeff posted 08-30-2014 12:19 AM ET (US)
KMEV,
While I have no personal experience with that system, I do see systems just like it used along the southern American coastline of Lake Huron.
jimh posted 08-30-2014 08:33 AM ET (US)
I don't have any first hand experience with any sort of marine railway installation for a recreational boat and cottage setting, but I have always thought it would be a great set-up.
What is the cost of the track per ten feet? I bet it is less expensive than ten-foot dock sections you'd need to get out to a conventional hoist.
kmev posted 08-30-2014 08:51 AM ET (US)
There are several around the lake that I live on, I just haven't been been around enough recently to catch one of the homeowners out in yard to ask them about it.
A new, complete rail system isn't exactly cheap, but there are a few used systems available for a reasonable cost. Here is the price list pulled from the Endres website:
Runabout or Pontoon Boat Dolly $2,275.00
Straight Track Section 10' long $300.00
Incline Track Section - 6 leg, 10’long $400.00
Head Section for Power Drive Unit $300.00
Power Winch 1 HP/21+ rpm $2,325.00
Power Winch (Gravity Unit)1 HP/21+ rpm $1,775.00
Remote Control $425.00
I anticipate needing 60 or 70 feet in total track length for my pier.
tedious posted 08-30-2014 09:17 AM ET (US)
My sister-in-law has a boatlift with wheels. Simply roll it in and out of the water each season - no crane needed. I don't know if that would work for your situation, or what it would cost. But it's got to be less than the $10,000 you're looking at for the track system.
kmev posted 08-30-2014 09:42 AM ET (US)
Because of my riprap shoreline, I won't be rolling anything in or out. I have helped friends hand-carry their boat lifts in and out of the water - I am not a fan of doing that. I have an opportunity to purchase a complete, used rail system for a bit less than what a used lift would cost, so I am exploring the that option.
dfmcintyre posted 08-30-2014 04:11 PM ET (US)
Years ago, we used to store a Montauk on a wheeled trailer, on top of my folks concrete patio. We used a pair of commercial auto transporter ramps, about 10 feet long, with a bracket welded to the lip of the patio. Worked very well, and no beginning or end of season hassles either.
One year we almost ordered a second extension set, as Lake Huron had gone down, but didn't bother.
The trailer was made by a local welding shop; used straps instead of bunks. That way the boat could be retrieved slightly angled, no big deal. No steering, instead had the wheels mounted only four feet apart. Took 20 minutes to determine the center of gravity the first time pulling it out, placed a small paint dot on on gunnel to indicate cg. If the trailer got off set in the sand, I could simply push down on the stern and the rig would self correct.
Other trailers had steering gear, that would freeze up within two years due to sand infiltration.
Also had a set of four guide polls which also doubled as a makeshift dock, with some shock cord.
If you google "auto transporter ramps" you'll find a number of sites.
My 1973 21' Outrage weighs #2760, with a 200hp Yamaha, mooring cover, foward shelter, Bimini, cooler, 1/2 fuel.
Regards - Don

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Author	Topic: Marine Rail System
kmev	posted 08-28-2014 10:44 PM ET (US) I am considering a marine rail system instead of a boat lift, such as those made by Endres: http://www.endresmfg.com/track.htm It is for a fresh water inland lake with a small rip rap shoreline, and will be used with a 1975 Outrage 21. A major advantage I see is the ability to assemble/disassemble the rails by hand (which come in 10-foot sections at <100 lbs./section), negating the need and cost of a crane to remove/replace a boat lift each season. Does anyone have any experience with a rail system or can provide any feedback on them? The water at my pier can drop to as little 2 feet some seasons.
Dave Sutton	posted 08-29-2014 08:50 AM ET (US) Fresh water lake? Depends on where, "down south" or "up north"? If up north, then one word is a dealbreaker: Ice. If that's not a problem, from the perspective of a diver who's done commercial work putting in these things in years past: If you want to install one, brush up on underwater concrete pouring, because you'll need good footings as well. This is not hard to do, actually, but does require a bit of extra logistics. You'll want to pre-build boxes as forms, and then will need to place them and then do concrete pours from a boat. You could also have piles driven down to grade and then attach to the top of those, it all depends on the resources available wherever you are. You will be hiring a diver... ;-) Dave .
kmev	posted 08-29-2014 11:01 PM ET (US) Yes, there is ice. That is why it has to be removed every season. Concrete footings? We're obviously not talking about the same thing. The rail system I'm talking about has less submerged weight than a lift but has far more feet, so settling into a sand bottom isn't an issue with steel pads on the bottom of the legs. And while I am a diver, I don't need scuba gear for the 2-4 feet that my existing pier resides in.
Jeff	posted 08-30-2014 12:19 AM ET (US) KMEV, While I have no personal experience with that system, I do see systems just like it used along the southern American coastline of Lake Huron.
jimh	posted 08-30-2014 08:33 AM ET (US) I don't have any first hand experience with any sort of marine railway installation for a recreational boat and cottage setting, but I have always thought it would be a great set-up. What is the cost of the track per ten feet? I bet it is less expensive than ten-foot dock sections you'd need to get out to a conventional hoist.
kmev	posted 08-30-2014 08:51 AM ET (US) There are several around the lake that I live on, I just haven't been been around enough recently to catch one of the homeowners out in yard to ask them about it. A new, complete rail system isn't exactly cheap, but there are a few used systems available for a reasonable cost. Here is the price list pulled from the Endres website: Runabout or Pontoon Boat Dolly $2,275.00 Straight Track Section 10' long $300.00 Incline Track Section - 6 leg, 10’long $400.00 Head Section for Power Drive Unit $300.00 Power Winch 1 HP/21+ rpm $2,325.00 Power Winch (Gravity Unit)1 HP/21+ rpm $1,775.00 Remote Control $425.00 I anticipate needing 60 or 70 feet in total track length for my pier.
tedious	posted 08-30-2014 09:17 AM ET (US) My sister-in-law has a boatlift with wheels. Simply roll it in and out of the water each season - no crane needed. I don't know if that would work for your situation, or what it would cost. But it's got to be less than the $10,000 you're looking at for the track system.
kmev	posted 08-30-2014 09:42 AM ET (US) Because of my riprap shoreline, I won't be rolling anything in or out. I have helped friends hand-carry their boat lifts in and out of the water - I am not a fan of doing that. I have an opportunity to purchase a complete, used rail system for a bit less than what a used lift would cost, so I am exploring the that option.
dfmcintyre	posted 08-30-2014 04:11 PM ET (US) Years ago, we used to store a Montauk on a wheeled trailer, on top of my folks concrete patio. We used a pair of commercial auto transporter ramps, about 10 feet long, with a bracket welded to the lip of the patio. Worked very well, and no beginning or end of season hassles either. One year we almost ordered a second extension set, as Lake Huron had gone down, but didn't bother. The trailer was made by a local welding shop; used straps instead of bunks. That way the boat could be retrieved slightly angled, no big deal. No steering, instead had the wheels mounted only four feet apart. Took 20 minutes to determine the center of gravity the first time pulling it out, placed a small paint dot on on gunnel to indicate cg. If the trailer got off set in the sand, I could simply push down on the stern and the rig would self correct. Other trailers had steering gear, that would freeze up within two years due to sand infiltration. Also had a set of four guide polls which also doubled as a makeshift dock, with some shock cord. If you google "auto transporter ramps" you'll find a number of sites. My 1973 21' Outrage weighs #2760, with a 200hp Yamaha, mooring cover, foward shelter, Bimini, cooler, 1/2 fuel. Regards - Don