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Author Topic:   Keeping Everything Original

jpdemarco posted 09-04-2014 09:13 PM ET (US)
I have 1992 Montauk in great shape with original equipment, but am thinking about repowering. How do most whaler owners feel about keeping everything as original as possible?
contender posted 09-04-2014 10:02 PM ET (US)
There are people here that think if you go away from the factory original you have sinned. I build and use my boat (whaler and others) for what I want, I do not care about factory and use what works for me or what I like. If you owned one of 50 Ferrari's built, then yes, I would kept it factory. However, A factory Whaler is only going to bring top dollar to a person looking for a factory Whaler. I think it is more important to have the boat in top shape and everything working, So built it for your likes...to each his own...PS However if you change engine brands you must change everything, controls, wires, cables. If you stay with the same brand you can use some of your old stuff...
whalerdude posted 09-04-2014 10:26 PM ET (US)
It's also important to be working with an outboard dealer that you can trust and that does outstanding work. My favorite dealer sells Yamaha. The owner of the dealership personally worked on setting up my boat with a new Yamaha 150 . He really did a nice job. He even fashioned new black filler pieces in the dash behind the instruments and under the new binnacle control. This was my 4th season with my new engine and it is still operating perfectly.
jimh posted 09-04-2014 11:44 PM ET (US)
There are probably more re-powered Boston Whaler boats than any other boat ever made. This weird sect that contender alludes to must be some secret society of Boston Whaler owners. Believe me, most Boston Whaler owners have already or will in the future re-power their boats with new engines.
There is an extremely small segment of Boston Whaler boats, perhaps a hundred out of many hundred thousand, whose owners have maintained them in exactly the same condition they were initially delivered when new. The other several hundred-thousand owners of Boston Whaler boats re-power them, get new trailers, add new electronics, improve the electrical systems, and change anything they feel like changing. Do not think for one second that there is anything about owning a Boston Whaler that means you have some obligation to keep it in its original condition.
There is only interest in these all-original boats if they date back to the earliest days, back to the 1960's or early 1970's. Once in a while there is a story of some perfect time-capsule Boston Whaler getting sold for a premium price, perhaps to a dealer for a show room floor exhibit--but not as a real everyday usable boat.
There is probably zero interest in preservation of a 1992 MONTAUK in exactly the condition it came when new. If you want a new engine, get a new engine, and don't fret one second about it.
tedious posted 09-05-2014 08:10 AM ET (US)
I would not worry about originality - there are lots and lots of Montauks out there, reducing its value as a collectible.
For the Montauk, I think the E-TEC 90 is the best combination of weight and power - plus you'll be able to reuse the original controls. Saves money, keeps it more original.
Although I'm very happy with the two four-stroke Yamaha engines I own, the 90 is awfully big and heavy for a Montauk. And I've seen the Mercury 90 on a neighbor's 170 Montauk - it looks huge on that bigger hull and I think it would really overwhelm a classic Montauk.
Tim
jimh posted 09-05-2014 08:34 AM ET (US)
In order for an item to become a collectable item, there must be collectors that want to collect them. 1992 Boston Whaler MONTAUK 17 boats are not sought out by collectors as collectable items. They are sought out as nice small boats to be used as boats, on the water.
jcdawg83 posted 09-05-2014 08:55 AM ET (US)
I wouldn't worry about the "original" thing. If I were repowering my Montauk, I would get a 90 E-tec or a Yamaha F70.
Spuds posted 09-10-2014 11:40 AM ET (US)
Re-power with whatever motor you have confidence in.
But regarding your question about modifications in a larger sense, I am a proponent of trying to keep your hull looking somewhat original. I think it is a great idea to upgrade with modern technology where possible, like your motor.
Another example is my 1985 Outrage 18. I replaced the old segmented bow rail with a new solid welded one. The boat looks essentially the same, but the subtle improvement in looks is amazing. I also installed the thick rubber commercial rub rail on the Outrage. It looks essentially the same, but was a big upgrade in protection for the hull.
Same with my 1962 Nauset. The original rub rail afforded little or no protection. Upgrading to a mid 80's Montauk style rub rail not only gave gel coat protection, but improved the looks of the old blue and white hull tremendously.
I see al kinds of crazy modifications done to old Whalers and wonder what were those people thinking?. It is a fact that your Whaler will always be worth more if you maintain it looking similar to what it looked like originally.

Binkster posted 09-10-2014 11:57 AM ET (US)
Spuds sez;
I see all kinds of crazy modifications done to old Whalers and wonder what were those people thinking?.
I believe that any modification done to your Whaler should look like something the BW should have done. The old boats have some shortcomings and if Whaler was building that boat today it would look like what you have done.
I agree with Spuds that many "homemade" modifications, although it may look good to the owner, really devaluate the hull.
rich
Dave Sutton posted 09-10-2014 02:41 PM ET (US)
Who cares what other people think?
The boat will be better for having more modern power. The E-TEC 90 is the choice of the thinking 'tauk owner.

Dave
.
bkjones posted 09-10-2014 08:53 PM ET (US)
I agree with Binkster in that some folks crazy "custom" modifications devalue the hull. Here in FL, I see many ragged out "custom" Boston Whalers. However, I don't think anything is affected by repowering, new trailers, electronics, etc. I think things go south when people start building their own consoles out of plywood, putting cheap cooler-type RPS seats in, etc.
PeteB88 posted 09-10-2014 10:15 PM ET (US)
Do your thing and you never go wrong… could screw up the boat according to some people- so what? your money, your time, your thing
AllanR posted 09-11-2014 12:38 AM ET (US)
I have owned a 1994 Boston Whaler Montauk like yours, since new and it has the original 1994 90hp Johnson. Don't underestimate the Johnson engines. I recently replaced the thermostats, the impeller, and had the heads cooing channels cleaned out. It runs like new, and is a great match for the boat.
If you check the compression on that engine and do something similar to what I did, the engine might last much longer than you might imagine. This is not about collectibility. They are simply great engines.
The caveat is that I have always owned this engine and maintained it carefully. But if you can determine the condition of the engine, then you can make a more informed decision.
If it is not in good condition, then the replacement engine would be the E-Tec 90hp, as others have mentioned. It is lightweight, powerful, and has a record of reliability.
Montauks are great candidates for long term ownership, as they are versatile and tough boats. The hulls can and do last decades. They will outlast almost any engine.
Alan Heckman posted 09-11-2014 08:41 AM ET (US)
Not to stir up the hornets nest, But I thought a lot before I repwered with a Yamaha F70. I researched all the possibilities including the E TEC 90 and here were my conclusions, at least in my mind! Yamaha F70, modern 4 stroke technology, 260 lbs., excellent fuel economy and Yamaha brand with great dealer support. E TEC 90 , 2 stroke always adding and buying 2 stroke oil, 320 lbs., which is O.K. Motor weight is very important on a 17 ft. Hull, the lighter the better. By going with the Yamaha F70 I was able to add a Tohatsu 6 hp. Sail Pro and still only have 318 lbs. of motor weight.Main motor and kicker still 2 lbs. lighter than the single E TEC 90. In my mind this made a lot of sense, I love my Yamaha F70, even though I lose 2 or 3 mph at top end that I would get with an E TEC 90. I know you E TEC guys love your motors too and that's great, have fun and enjoy your WHALERS! Just thinking and saying. AL
jimh posted 09-11-2014 09:23 AM ET (US)
Please limit discussion in this thread to the topic of the need to keep all components of a Boston Whaler boat original.
If advice is needed on what engine to choose for re-power, should such a re-power be undertaken, advice about selection of engines can be sought in PERFORMANCE.
martyn1075 posted 09-11-2014 01:22 PM ET (US)
What is the number one thing we all look for when buying a Whaler even though we don't find them often? We look for a barn find Whaler oh and it completely looks factory with nothing done and has been sitting for years that way. We like them becasue they are simple clean "original" without damage (usually) and we tend to get a little excited when we see them. However when we find them otherwise the first thing we look for is what has been modified and changed out. Then some try to beat the owner down in price because something is not orignal and we won't be able to change it back. Everything is compared to the time capsule being the best then we go back in value from there.
So I think many here would be lying to say it doesn't really matter. The problem is they are rare. Boats were intended to be used BUT imo kept clean and taken care of. Nobody argues when they find a working clean original Whaler. Not exactly the same the other way around.
However when it comes to the engine, I would welcome a new motor change any day. The used price package of a Whaler with a new engine is still a bargain compared to the same Whaler with an old-timer waiting to be re-powered with an expensive new motor. Its really the most important factor because you need full trust in your outboard.
alkar posted 09-12-2014 05:34 AM ET (US)
Repower away! It's the one potential modification that has a chance of yielding a return of more than 20% of your investment. :-)
swist posted 09-22-2014 05:25 PM ET (US)
This may amuse you. In another life I have a connection with musical instrument restorers. The most fanatic of them do not use materials (including adhesives) that did not exist when the instrument was built, they cast their own hardware if the precise exact item is no longer made (even if there is an obvious, possibly even superior replacement). And here's the kicker: some will not even use TOOLS that did not exist at original manufacture time. And these are not museum antiques, they are performed on regularly.
This shows how far "keeping everything original" can go.
Binkster posted 09-22-2014 10:03 PM ET (US)
When we have boat auctions where buyers will pay huge premiums for original or Whalers restored to original, boat owners will do their own thing, sometimes devaluing the boat and many times increasing its value. Boston Whaler didn't always have it right, but we can make it right by today's standards.
rich

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Author	Topic: Keeping Everything Original
jpdemarco	posted 09-04-2014 09:13 PM ET (US) I have 1992 Montauk in great shape with original equipment, but am thinking about repowering. How do most whaler owners feel about keeping everything as original as possible?
contender	posted 09-04-2014 10:02 PM ET (US) There are people here that think if you go away from the factory original you have sinned. I build and use my boat (whaler and others) for what I want, I do not care about factory and use what works for me or what I like. If you owned one of 50 Ferrari's built, then yes, I would kept it factory. However, A factory Whaler is only going to bring top dollar to a person looking for a factory Whaler. I think it is more important to have the boat in top shape and everything working, So built it for your likes...to each his own...PS However if you change engine brands you must change everything, controls, wires, cables. If you stay with the same brand you can use some of your old stuff...
whalerdude	posted 09-04-2014 10:26 PM ET (US) It's also important to be working with an outboard dealer that you can trust and that does outstanding work. My favorite dealer sells Yamaha. The owner of the dealership personally worked on setting up my boat with a new Yamaha 150 . He really did a nice job. He even fashioned new black filler pieces in the dash behind the instruments and under the new binnacle control. This was my 4th season with my new engine and it is still operating perfectly.
jimh	posted 09-04-2014 11:44 PM ET (US) There are probably more re-powered Boston Whaler boats than any other boat ever made. This weird sect that contender alludes to must be some secret society of Boston Whaler owners. Believe me, most Boston Whaler owners have already or will in the future re-power their boats with new engines. There is an extremely small segment of Boston Whaler boats, perhaps a hundred out of many hundred thousand, whose owners have maintained them in exactly the same condition they were initially delivered when new. The other several hundred-thousand owners of Boston Whaler boats re-power them, get new trailers, add new electronics, improve the electrical systems, and change anything they feel like changing. Do not think for one second that there is anything about owning a Boston Whaler that means you have some obligation to keep it in its original condition. There is only interest in these all-original boats if they date back to the earliest days, back to the 1960's or early 1970's. Once in a while there is a story of some perfect time-capsule Boston Whaler getting sold for a premium price, perhaps to a dealer for a show room floor exhibit--but not as a real everyday usable boat. There is probably zero interest in preservation of a 1992 MONTAUK in exactly the condition it came when new. If you want a new engine, get a new engine, and don't fret one second about it.
tedious	posted 09-05-2014 08:10 AM ET (US) I would not worry about originality - there are lots and lots of Montauks out there, reducing its value as a collectible. For the Montauk, I think the E-TEC 90 is the best combination of weight and power - plus you'll be able to reuse the original controls. Saves money, keeps it more original. Although I'm very happy with the two four-stroke Yamaha engines I own, the 90 is awfully big and heavy for a Montauk. And I've seen the Mercury 90 on a neighbor's 170 Montauk - it looks huge on that bigger hull and I think it would really overwhelm a classic Montauk. Tim
jimh	posted 09-05-2014 08:34 AM ET (US) In order for an item to become a collectable item, there must be collectors that want to collect them. 1992 Boston Whaler MONTAUK 17 boats are not sought out by collectors as collectable items. They are sought out as nice small boats to be used as boats, on the water.
jcdawg83	posted 09-05-2014 08:55 AM ET (US) I wouldn't worry about the "original" thing. If I were repowering my Montauk, I would get a 90 E-tec or a Yamaha F70.
Spuds	posted 09-10-2014 11:40 AM ET (US) Re-power with whatever motor you have confidence in. But regarding your question about modifications in a larger sense, I am a proponent of trying to keep your hull looking somewhat original. I think it is a great idea to upgrade with modern technology where possible, like your motor. Another example is my 1985 Outrage 18. I replaced the old segmented bow rail with a new solid welded one. The boat looks essentially the same, but the subtle improvement in looks is amazing. I also installed the thick rubber commercial rub rail on the Outrage. It looks essentially the same, but was a big upgrade in protection for the hull. Same with my 1962 Nauset. The original rub rail afforded little or no protection. Upgrading to a mid 80's Montauk style rub rail not only gave gel coat protection, but improved the looks of the old blue and white hull tremendously. I see al kinds of crazy modifications done to old Whalers and wonder what were those people thinking?. It is a fact that your Whaler will always be worth more if you maintain it looking similar to what it looked like originally.
Binkster	posted 09-10-2014 11:57 AM ET (US) Spuds sez; I see all kinds of crazy modifications done to old Whalers and wonder what were those people thinking?. I believe that any modification done to your Whaler should look like something the BW should have done. The old boats have some shortcomings and if Whaler was building that boat today it would look like what you have done. I agree with Spuds that many "homemade" modifications, although it may look good to the owner, really devaluate the hull. rich
Dave Sutton	posted 09-10-2014 02:41 PM ET (US) Who cares what other people think? The boat will be better for having more modern power. The E-TEC 90 is the choice of the thinking 'tauk owner. Dave .
bkjones	posted 09-10-2014 08:53 PM ET (US) I agree with Binkster in that some folks crazy "custom" modifications devalue the hull. Here in FL, I see many ragged out "custom" Boston Whalers. However, I don't think anything is affected by repowering, new trailers, electronics, etc. I think things go south when people start building their own consoles out of plywood, putting cheap cooler-type RPS seats in, etc.
PeteB88	posted 09-10-2014 10:15 PM ET (US) Do your thing and you never go wrong… could screw up the boat according to some people- so what? your money, your time, your thing
AllanR	posted 09-11-2014 12:38 AM ET (US) I have owned a 1994 Boston Whaler Montauk like yours, since new and it has the original 1994 90hp Johnson. Don't underestimate the Johnson engines. I recently replaced the thermostats, the impeller, and had the heads cooing channels cleaned out. It runs like new, and is a great match for the boat. If you check the compression on that engine and do something similar to what I did, the engine might last much longer than you might imagine. This is not about collectibility. They are simply great engines. The caveat is that I have always owned this engine and maintained it carefully. But if you can determine the condition of the engine, then you can make a more informed decision. If it is not in good condition, then the replacement engine would be the E-Tec 90hp, as others have mentioned. It is lightweight, powerful, and has a record of reliability. Montauks are great candidates for long term ownership, as they are versatile and tough boats. The hulls can and do last decades. They will outlast almost any engine.
Alan Heckman	posted 09-11-2014 08:41 AM ET (US) Not to stir up the hornets nest, But I thought a lot before I repwered with a Yamaha F70. I researched all the possibilities including the E TEC 90 and here were my conclusions, at least in my mind! Yamaha F70, modern 4 stroke technology, 260 lbs., excellent fuel economy and Yamaha brand with great dealer support. E TEC 90 , 2 stroke always adding and buying 2 stroke oil, 320 lbs., which is O.K. Motor weight is very important on a 17 ft. Hull, the lighter the better. By going with the Yamaha F70 I was able to add a Tohatsu 6 hp. Sail Pro and still only have 318 lbs. of motor weight.Main motor and kicker still 2 lbs. lighter than the single E TEC 90. In my mind this made a lot of sense, I love my Yamaha F70, even though I lose 2 or 3 mph at top end that I would get with an E TEC 90. I know you E TEC guys love your motors too and that's great, have fun and enjoy your WHALERS! Just thinking and saying. AL
jimh	posted 09-11-2014 09:23 AM ET (US) Please limit discussion in this thread to the topic of the need to keep all components of a Boston Whaler boat original. If advice is needed on what engine to choose for re-power, should such a re-power be undertaken, advice about selection of engines can be sought in PERFORMANCE.
martyn1075	posted 09-11-2014 01:22 PM ET (US) What is the number one thing we all look for when buying a Whaler even though we don't find them often? We look for a barn find Whaler oh and it completely looks factory with nothing done and has been sitting for years that way. We like them becasue they are simple clean "original" without damage (usually) and we tend to get a little excited when we see them. However when we find them otherwise the first thing we look for is what has been modified and changed out. Then some try to beat the owner down in price because something is not orignal and we won't be able to change it back. Everything is compared to the time capsule being the best then we go back in value from there. So I think many here would be lying to say it doesn't really matter. The problem is they are rare. Boats were intended to be used BUT imo kept clean and taken care of. Nobody argues when they find a working clean original Whaler. Not exactly the same the other way around. However when it comes to the engine, I would welcome a new motor change any day. The used price package of a Whaler with a new engine is still a bargain compared to the same Whaler with an old-timer waiting to be re-powered with an expensive new motor. Its really the most important factor because you need full trust in your outboard.
alkar	posted 09-12-2014 05:34 AM ET (US) Repower away! It's the one potential modification that has a chance of yielding a return of more than 20% of your investment. :-)
swist	posted 09-22-2014 05:25 PM ET (US) This may amuse you. In another life I have a connection with musical instrument restorers. The most fanatic of them do not use materials (including adhesives) that did not exist when the instrument was built, they cast their own hardware if the precise exact item is no longer made (even if there is an obvious, possibly even superior replacement). And here's the kicker: some will not even use TOOLS that did not exist at original manufacture time. And these are not museum antiques, they are performed on regularly. This shows how far "keeping everything original" can go.
Binkster	posted 09-22-2014 10:03 PM ET (US) When we have boat auctions where buyers will pay huge premiums for original or Whalers restored to original, boat owners will do their own thing, sometimes devaluing the boat and many times increasing its value. Boston Whaler didn't always have it right, but we can make it right by today's standards. rich