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Author Topic:   420 Outrage
fishgutz posted 09-16-2014 04:04 PM ET (US)   Profile for fishgutz   Send Email to fishgutz  
Less than two months until the 420 Outrage makes its official appearance at the Ft. Lauderdale Boat Show!

Photo (composited)
Press Release [has real picture of 370 OUTRAGE]

Dave Sutton posted 09-16-2014 10:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dave Sutton  Send Email to Dave Sutton     
<yawn>...

Bring back the classic 'Tauk, power it with Evinrude, build it in Massachusetts, and offer it in any color you like as long as it's desert tan, and finish with Mills canvas and I'll be excited. ;-)


Dave

.

vze2gbs4 posted 09-16-2014 11:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for vze2gbs4  Send Email to vze2gbs4     
Yawn. Yeap that's not Whaler anymore. That's something else with Waler logo and ridiculous price tag. I wish Brunswick will do all of us favor: sell the company and let Whaler be free from Sea Ray designers and Mercury outboards.
Jeff posted 09-16-2014 11:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jeff  Send Email to Jeff     
Every time I see an image of it, it looks like a Sea Ray center console. It's that big black window on the hull side that gives it that look and also ruins the aesthetics of the design in my opinion. Maybe they should name it a Laguna instead of Outrage. : |

That said, the new Vantage and Dauntless models--love those boats.

RevengeFamily posted 09-17-2014 06:17 AM ET (US)     Profile for RevengeFamily  Send Email to RevengeFamily     
A bit of an eye sore. When I see a Grady White new or old, I know it's a Grady White. That thing with the Boston Whaler sticker on the side could be built by any one of a dozen boat builders. Nothing in the design says Boston Whaler.

The MSRP likely to be on the up side of $750,000. I love my Whalers, but for that price I can get a lot more boat than what Whaler is offering. Dick Fisher is rolling over in his grave--Norm

EJO posted 09-17-2014 10:00 AM ET (US)     Profile for EJO  Send Email to EJO     
I think Norm's [price] estimate is low. Did you see the four outboards[?] At least we know you don't need a kicker; you always can limp home. It doesn't look like a Whaler.
martyn1075 posted 09-17-2014 11:01 AM ET (US)     Profile for martyn1075  Send Email to martyn1075     
Could not agree more and bigger is not better in this case. I will never understand why somebody would need a 42 foot open boat with console.
Whaler has developed a serious identity problem unfortunately. Dropping models and changing design too quickly. As mentioned Grady White company will make subtle changes but keep the heart of the boat still get obvious to the eye. That's called a brand. However driving home we saw a nice 80's outrage passing us on the bridge. The boat still has a complete head turning ability. My friend asked who makes that new boat? I said that new boat is nearly 30 years old! We laughed.
Jeff posted 09-17-2014 11:20 AM ET (US)     Profile for Jeff  Send Email to Jeff     
For the Outrage Model line-up Whaler really should pull some classic aesthetics into these models because that name is rooted in the foundation of Whaler. Dauntless, Vantage, Conquest.....these are names with no roots in the Classic history of the brand and they should carry their own unique aesthetic.

If I could design a modern day Outrage I would want to see a nod to the outrage lineage cast upon the hull's profile.

Something along the lines of this....
http://tinyurl.com/420Outrage

Jay Fitz posted 09-17-2014 12:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jay Fitz  Send Email to Jay Fitz     
Looks like you'
re on your way to "designing a modern day Outrage" Jeff!
jimh posted 09-17-2014 01:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
The press release says. "Visitors [to the boat show] were treated to an intricate, two-foot scale model of the 420 Outrage, on display for the duration of the Cannes show."

The image above the press release shows an 370 OUTRAGE (with 40 people aboard).

The press release highlight four "facets" or "defining features" of the new model:

--it has Mercury VERADO engines with joystick steering

--it has a large space in the bow

--it has cockpit and helm seating designed with thought

--it has modern marine electronics including a display device that can show engine data (Smartcraft Vessel View).

The press release then concludes that due to these four "facets" and "defining features" the 420 OUTRAGE will be the "ultimate boat for onboard entertaining" and that "serious sportfishing" will be possible.

The press release also mentions a recent expansion of the manufacturing facilities for Boston Whaler at Edgewater, Florida. An edition of 58,000-square-feet has been made.

What I find odd in the press release is there is no mention of the Boston Whaler Unibond hull construction. The word "hull" does not appear. The word Unibond does not appear. In the boilerplate attached at the bottom of the press release and probably included on all press releases, in a section "About Boston Whaler" there is a mention of "foam-core construction process."

If there were any "defining feature" of a Boston Whaler boat, it ought to be the remarkable double-bottom hull, the floatation provided by the double bottom, and the very unique method of construction and filling of the double bottom space with foam. I would give this element precedence over the four highlighted "defining features."

As for the four highlighted "facets" or "defining features", I have to remark a bit about them. Using VERADO engines cannot really be considered a defining feature of a boat. A great number of boat builders are using the VERADO, and its presence on a Boston Whaler is not something that is particularly remarkable. Perhaps there is a touch of irony in the declaration that using a VERADO is a defining feature of the new Boston Whaler. As for joystick steering, this feature is available on many boats and with many engines, not just on Boston Whaler boats with VERADO engines. I don't see joystick steering as being something that defines a Boston Whaler.

Having modern electronics, including being able to display engine data on a dedicated display, is also not particularly unique to Boston Whaler and this particular model. In this regard the use of the Mercury engines is actually a bit of a handicap, since Mercury engines are not NMEA-2000. This limits the choices of modern marine electronics that can be used. I don't see anything about the 420 OUTRAGE that particularly makes it different from any other boat in regard to being able to be equipped with modern electronics. There are some boats built in the 1970's that have modern electronics and can display engine data.

As for the helm and cockpit seating being design with thought, I would hope that would go without saying.

The large space in the bow is certainly a very distinctive feature of this boat. When a boat is underway and running in any sort of conditions other than very calm, the bow of the boat is the least attractive and least comfortable place for passengers and crew due to the bow having the greatest motion and subject to the most spray. I think the large space in the bow will come into use more often when the boat is at the dock or at rest in calm seas.

I am certain that considerable research into potential customers and potential sales of the 420 OUTRAGE has been done, and I expect that when the 420 OUTRAGE is finally realized in a first production hull, and finally shown at a major boat show, there will be a line of customers ready to buy one. The line might not be very long, but at the anticipated selling price, just a few buyers will make the 420 OUTRAGE model a profitable endeavor for Boston Whaler.

Hoosier posted 09-17-2014 04:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for Hoosier  Send Email to Hoosier     
Nice concept, Jeff. We need to have more "how things should be" posts...
macfam posted 09-18-2014 07:33 AM ET (US)     Profile for macfam  Send Email to macfam     
That's it!!
I've decided not to buy one.
EJO posted 09-18-2014 02:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for EJO  Send Email to EJO     
The 420 wasn't even on the list of 90 designs that changed boating, see below the two Boston Whalers that were.

I just received the October 2014 Power & Motor Yacht magazine with an article titled "The World's Top Boats, 90 designs that changed boating forever". On page 107 they show "Boston Whaler 13 1958-2000 Designed by Raymond Hunt/Dick Fisher" with the blurb, "What kid didn't dream of running around in a 13-foot Whaler? Who didn't need to call the chiropractor after a weekend on a 13-foot Whaler? This iconic ride is a must have for any boating nut's fleet and it is the model that launched Boston Whaler"

Underneath in the same column: "Boston Whaler 16 Nauset 1961-1973 Designed by Raymond Hunt" and with the following blurb:

"Arguably the first production center console design (along with perhaps the Chris-Craft Dory), the Naunset 16 became the Montauk 17. The 17 is still extremely popular today. And make no mistake, the 17 remains the SUV of small boats. When equipped with a 90-HP outboard she is eminently practical for diving, picnicking, fishing, gunk-holing, even, believe it or not, for camping. Was she rough riding? Yup, Wet? Sure. But hey, unsinkable and fun-why do you think she had so many imitators."

Good to see that at least these two Boston Whaler boats are on the list of 90 all times greats.

martyn1075 posted 09-18-2014 02:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for martyn1075  Send Email to martyn1075     
It [is] true, but times have changed and it [is] up to the next generations to keep the tradition and glory alive. I believe they have failed in that regard. The larger cabin Whalers not so much. According to our dealer they sold record amounts of the 285 and new 31, which are on back order from the factory. I guess the rich and famous like what they see. The 15 to 21-foot not recognizable; the smaller cuddies dropped like a bad habit. That, unfortunately, is a shame and totally on the company. The big picture here is that Whaler is targeting the big boys with the big toys and there once market in the high-end, everyday, recreational, fishing boat are gone. Think of those models as filler stock. The old ones kept in great condition are head-turners; the new ones heads are not turning as much or at all.
Mambo Minnow posted 09-19-2014 07:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for Mambo Minnow  Send Email to Mambo Minnow     
I saw the joystick steering Verados on a Conquest 285 at Newport last weekend. I will try to post a photo to this thread later in Photobucket.
jimh posted 09-20-2014 10:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Joystick steering is not unique to a VERADO or a Boston Whaler. Many boats and many engines offer the option of joystick steering now. I don't see it as being a "defining feature" of either a Boston Whaler or a VERADO.
Don SSDD posted 09-21-2014 08:03 AM ET (US)     Profile for Don SSDD    
How big is the fuel tank on a 4 engine Whaler? I guess if I have to ask, I'm not in the target market. It really doesn't look like much for $750,000.

Don

msirof2001 posted 09-22-2014 11:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for msirof2001  Send Email to msirof2001     
The new whalers look like Elvis in his later years.

What is a center console anyway? I always thought it was a small boat for day fishing. They have morphed in to monsters; ugly at that.

My current thinking is that the 93-97 Offshore 27 was the pinnacle with respect to fishing boats. Probably the Outrage 24 (1993-1997) being the best day-fishing-trip center console. Defining features: Unibond, unsinkable hull. Look at the swamped capacity on that 24 footer. You can put a couple of average sized humans in the 24's fish holds. 195 Gallons of fuel and a rating of up to 400HP for a 24 footer. Despite the 195 gallon tank, there is still a step-down head inside the CC. Look at the built-in tackle trays. While the fishing package #2 bait tank stunk up the room, there are many aftermarket solutions.

I'm not necessarily a biggot for smirk-hulls and earlier but these recent designs are really awful. With these euro transoms, look how far back the fisherman is. I wish they made center consoles for hard core fisherman and then fluffed up the cabin models for family appeal.

If I bought a new Whaler today, I would get it with minimum power and immediately repower with Yamahas selling the Verados. What is with the Verado performance tests? Horrible MPG. Why?

I'd like to see a 93-97 Outrage 24 with a pair of Yamaha F200XB engines. Add a Bluewater Bait systems 48 Gallon tank, Simrad Evo2 2x 9" with a BSM3 and pocket-mount Airmar transducers and that is probably the ultimate day-fishing boat.

dgoodhue posted 09-25-2014 07:49 AM ET (US)     Profile for dgoodhue  Send Email to dgoodhue     
Their definitely is a market large center consoles. I was in south fl a few years ago and I was surprised at how many big center console I saw. I saw an outrage 320 and it was dwarfed by many of the other center consoles.

I am not the target audience for the outrage 420, but one thing that has surprised me about the 350 & 370 outrages that I have been on at boats show is how little forward open space they have. The big cabin with the sun lounge above take up so much room. It's almost like it is walk around cabin with extra walking space with table/seating up front. The 320 outrage definitely seems to have more open space up front.

newportguy posted 10-04-2014 07:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for newportguy  Send Email to newportguy     
I was cruising the whaler site today and saw [these linked documents].

DOCUMENT 1

DOCUMENT 2

[Combined two threads on this topic.--jimh]

LOA: 42' 6" (13.0 m)
Beam: 13' (3.96 m)
Draft: 31" (0.79 m)
Weight (dry, no engine): 22,000 lbs (9,979 kg)
Weight: 29,500 lbs (13,381 kg)
Maximum Weight Capacity: 7,482 lbs (3,394 kg)
Swamped Capacity: 4,000 lbs (1,814 kg)
Persons Capacity: 20
Maximum Horsepower: 1,675 hp (1,245 kW)
Minimum Horsepower: 1,200 hp (895 kW)
Deadrise at Transom: 22°
Fuel Capacity: 600 gallons (2,271 L)
Maximum Engine Weight: 3,400 lbs (1,542 kg)
Transom Height: 30" (0.76 m)
Water Capacity: 60 gallons (227 L)
Waste Capacity: 20 gallons (76 L)
Bridge Clearance with Hard-top: 12' 5" (3.81 m)
Bridge Clearance with Hardtop and Satellite TV: 14' 2" (4.32 m)
Bridge Clearance with Upper Station: 18' 6" (5.64 m)
Transom Angle: 15°:

Jeff posted 10-05-2014 08:54 AM ET (US)     Profile for Jeff  Send Email to Jeff     
The only thing I found interesting here is: Maximum Horsepower: 1675hp

Since there is no combination of Mercury outboards to reach that in a quad setup, how could you reach that maximum?

Could Whaler be open to offering the 420 Outrage with Triple 557's (1671hp)? This is starting to become a common rigging option for power on Center Consoles over 40' in the market place.

jimh posted 10-05-2014 10:31 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
With 1,600-HP engines, running at full throttle must mean a fuel consumption of about 160-GPH. With 600-gallon fuel capacity, this suggests you can run at full throttle for about three hours-45-minutes. Then you better be at the fuel dock. Adding 600-gallons at say $4.50-per-gallon will mean $2,700.
boatdryver posted 10-05-2014 11:07 AM ET (US)     Profile for boatdryver  Send Email to boatdryver     
Actually, that's not so bad. The Gulfstream IV jet they would have flown down in from Greenwich, CT to take that boat ride burns that much fuel in the first hour after takeoff.

JimL

george nagy posted 10-05-2014 12:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for george nagy  Send Email to george nagy     
You know I often look at these large mostly open boats with enormous engine combinations and wonder what is the point to all of this, there doesn't seem to be much of a rational reasoning for such things. The jet is maybe more justify able in terms of convenience than the boat. The boat does the same thing as a38 with twin 300s.
Or a 30 with a single 300 or so even more so. They cruise the same water tie up or anchor in the same areas.

acseatsri posted 10-05-2014 02:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for acseatsri  Send Email to acseatsri     
I thought the most interesting thing was the MINIMUM horsepower of 1200. Other than triple 557's, the only option would be quad 300's or quad 350's. Does this platform support quints?
jimh posted 10-05-2014 03:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
[I combined all the threads about the boat into one thread.--jimh]
fishgutz posted 05-03-2014 03:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for fishgutz  Send Email to fishgutz     
Did anybody see [a small model of a possible new Boston Whaler boat called the 420 OUTRAGE] at the Miami Boat Show in 2014?
http://s42.photobucket.com/user/Fishgutz/media/Boat%20and%20Fish/ 1891326_660387087359175_1121678218_o_zps7e4caafc.jpg.html
I hope this post isn't redundant. I searched this site and found nothing about it.
Floridaman posted 05-03-2014 04:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for Floridaman  Send Email to Floridaman     
I did, they only had the model as pictured. More to come.
jimh posted 05-04-2014 10:39 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I didn't go to the MIBS, so I didn't see the model. But the existance of the model boat was mentioned previously in a thread about the boat show. Most amazingly, Boston Whaler apparently took in some orders for the boat, based only on the model. I don't recall the length, but it was fantastic, as was the price.
PeteB88 posted 05-05-2014 12:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for PeteB88  Send Email to PeteB88     
I heard 42-feet.

From news release Feb 13, 2004:

"The stage was set during the 2014 Miami International Boat Show, where Boston Whaler hosted its annual press event on Thursday. As remarks drew to a close, President Huw Bower stepped forward to announce a special unveiling. Pulling the curtain from a large display revealed an intricate, three-foot scale model---a perfect replica of the coming 420 Outrage."

Mambo Minnow posted 10-18-2014 08:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for Mambo Minnow  Send Email to Mambo Minnow     
I went to the Annapolis Power Boat show today. Whaler had a 370 Outrage as well as a model of the 420 Outrage. They said the boat will debut in two weeks at the Fort Lauderdale show. Many innovative features mentioned beyond the cabin viewing ports. MSRP of $750K with sales already made.

I notice many white Verados now and joystick steering on the larger, multi engine models.

PeteB88 posted 10-19-2014 12:40 AM ET (US)     Profile for PeteB88  Send Email to PeteB88     
We heard at St John's Rendezvous a couple weeks ago: amaziing, bigger bigger and bigger coming. And huge outboard, three, four, and joy stick controls.
jimh posted 10-19-2014 08:20 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
[I combined a fourth thread about the showing of small model of a new Boston Whaler boat into this thread. I can't really see the value in having four discussions about a very small model of a boat that no one has seen yet.]
phatwhaler posted 10-19-2014 09:54 AM ET (US)     Profile for phatwhaler  Send Email to phatwhaler     
White Mercury motors are another sign that what we're really looking at is a modern day SeaRay Laguna.
jimh posted 10-19-2014 10:24 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Did a SeaRay Laguna cost $750,000?
Jefecinco posted 10-19-2014 10:29 AM ET (US)     Profile for Jefecinco  Send Email to Jefecinco     
Time moves on and boats and boat companies evolve. If the only boats offered by Boston Whaler were classics the company would no longer exist.

As to the 420 Outrage I would, if even remotely qualified to buy the beast, insist on a "hull window delete" option. That would be a huge improvement of the appearance and seaworthiness of the boat.

Personally I prefer the classic beauty of older Boston Whalers. My 190 Montauk with it's flat transom is a good looking boat. If it had a bit of carefully integrated mahogany finished with a modern long lasting hard wearing material it would be perfect. A nice white E-Tec would be wonderful, too.

Butch

phatwhaler posted 10-19-2014 02:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for phatwhaler  Send Email to phatwhaler     
As much as people like their Whalers with wood I haven't seen a late model Montauk "Nausetized" yet--ten years since the new Montauk came out.
jimh posted 10-19-2014 07:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
The original MONTAUK boats don't have much wood. Just a bit of trim on the console.
dgoodhue posted 10-19-2014 10:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for dgoodhue  Send Email to dgoodhue     
Metan marine did a 'new' nauset 170 with a wooden console.
Mambo Minnow posted 10-26-2014 06:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for Mambo Minnow  Send Email to Mambo Minnow     
One of the new innovative features I heard on this boat are trim tabs that automatically adjust based on the throttle setting of the engines.
jimh posted 10-31-2014 08:53 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I would think on an outboard engine powered boat that the trim of the outboard engines would be adjusted based on engine throttle setting, not the trim tabs of the boat.

Evinrude revealed their E-TEC V6 74-degree outboard engines will have an automatic engine trim feature back in July. The engine trim can by automatically adjusted for engine throttle and boat speed. The adjustment is based on an algorithm that is stored in the electronic throttle control system.

Binkster posted 10-31-2014 11:54 AM ET (US)     Profile for Binkster  Send Email to Binkster     
This is what a 42' center console boat is supposed to look like. There is no mention as to the bottom shape. All the rest advertise twin step(spinner) bottom which can be dangerous in the hands of an untrained operator.

[Gave a link to an index of 20,800-images]

rich

jimh posted 10-31-2014 12:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Rich--Thanks for linking to 20,800 images. Please cut that down a little. Exactly which one of the 20,800 images should be used as the standard for what a 42-foot center console should look like in your opinion. That will help readers who are interested in learning what your opinion is for the proper appearance of a 42-foot center console boat get a more definite understanding.
Mambo Minnow posted 11-01-2014 01:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for Mambo Minnow  Send Email to Mambo Minnow     
I just discovered Bob Daugherty revealed a similar sized center console, and Yellowfin and Invicible have 42 foot center consoles, so there definitely is a market for boats of this magnitude and size.
PeteB88 posted 11-01-2014 06:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for PeteB88  Send Email to PeteB88     
Doherty's company, Everglades, is launching a 43 not a 42; not that one foot makes a big deal difference. We heard most of the story at the St Johns River Rendezvous first weekend in Oct directly from Whaler engineer and from Everglades engineer. From what we've heard from those guys the last two years emphasis is on "big and bigger' - triples and quads. Everglades prefers Yamahas and we even got into conversation about Seven outboards 557 HP at $90,000/each with controls - and watched some Youtube vids on iPads.

what is this world coming to?

but we had an awesome time, as always, with everyone we are becoming close friends with and new folks too.

Mambo Minnow posted 11-02-2014 07:38 AM ET (US)     Profile for Mambo Minnow  Send Email to Mambo Minnow     
http://evergladesboats.com/boats.cfm/mode/details/id/24795

The Everglades model is now on their website, link above. LOA w/o engines is 42'8". Model no. 435CC

jimh posted 11-02-2014 08:42 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
On the EVERGLADES website the images of their new model 435CC are very strange. There are actually people on the boat. The boat is actually moving through the water. This is quite different from the images of the Boston Whaler 420 OUTRAGE that I have seen. All the images of the 420 OUTRAGE show the boat at rest. There are no people aboard the boat. And there is a strange mountainous landscape on the shoreline. I think the images of the Boston Whaler 420 OUTRAGE are all generated on a graphics computer. Is there any image of an actual boat posted on-line anywhere? These all look like computer graphics:

http://www.boattest.com/boats/boat_video.aspx?ID=3246

onlyawhaler posted 11-02-2014 12:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for onlyawhaler  Send Email to onlyawhaler     
On the EVERGLADES website the images of their new model 435CC also show a brilliant option, a choice.

A new Buyer can order this obviously very high priced boat with Yamaha or anything else they want. Their 435CC shows quad Yamaha 350s (V8) Outboards totaling 1400 total horsepower unlike the Boston Whaler 420 with 1200 total horsepower.

I have always leaned Yamaha and these V8s are intriguing to me. They seem like a high quality, high horsepower option from a long time trusted marine outboard source.

I am not in this market, but if I was, I would rather have more displacement vs supercharged in a challenging marine environment.

Performance figures push this 435CC close to 60mph at full RPM. No figures on the Whaler yet.

It will be interesting to see the differences in performance between the Yamaha V8s and the smaller displacement supercharged Mercurys on these two boats.

Obvious EVERGADES and Bob feel its important to push this envelope of ultra large center consoles. So despite many forum members here who feel this Outrage 420 is a non relevant, non desirable boat that makes no sense, Bob, a Whaler legend, feels differently and has already played the one up game with an extra foot and more horsepower.

Interesting

Sterling
Onlyawhaler

martyn1075 posted 11-02-2014 12:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for martyn1075  Send Email to martyn1075     
quote:
Obvious EVERGADES and Bob feel its important to push this envelope of ultra large center consoles. So despite many forum members here who feel this Outrage 420 is a non relevant, non desirable boat that makes no sense, Bob, a Whaler legend, feels differently and has already played the one up game with an extra foot and more horsepower.

Sterling what I have learned over that last couple of years is that to make any real money they have to sell to the people that carry it. Those people want the best most expensive and flashy boats possible. Quite often they try re-selling them a few years later as well when the "thrill is gone" (thanks BB King). The desire to own a boat most other people on the planet can't buy. The intention of a boat that size may be honest as well for some but it doesn't matter its all about money at the end of the day.

Realistically speaking Boston Whaler feels and I do believe its backed up by sales from what I have learned at least from out local dealer is that they have hit a niche market of buyers as of late that desire these kind of boats. 28 Conquest is too small but is still a big seller if you can believe that, the new 31 footer is backordered. If we add up the all the dealer costs it becomes big money again for these dealers who have taken a bit of a hit on the smaller stuff over recent years.

Some boat manufacturing companies have done a good job protecting their other products in their lineup and keeping ALL their clients happy despite not selling as many they once had, others have not, and Boston Whaler is one of the biggest offenders in that regard. Dropping models , drastic design changes over too short of time are few reasons why. BOston Whaler is no longer a small high quality long lasting well designed fishing boat anymore those days are finished. All the love is now into the big guys league. Time to look elsewhere for one of those.

jimh posted 11-02-2014 01:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Most impressive to me--so far not even mentioned by Boston Whaler in their promotional literature or other participants here in their comment--is the ability to create a 43-foot hull using the Unibond hull process. The process of making a Unibond hull appears to me to become more difficult as the volume of the hull space which is to be filled with foam increases, due to the greater chance of having a void or irregularity in the foam material. Also, the more surface area in the double bottom portion, the more force that develops to separate the hull from the liner, making the molds and their fixtures require ever greater strength. Boston Whaler seems to have evolved their Unibond hull production methods and techniques in the past few years to the point where creating a 42-foot Unibond hull is possible. It was not too long ago that the upper bound for a Unibond hull seemed to be about 27-feet, but now we are into 42-foot hulls. The interior space being filled is even greater, as the volume grows to the exponent 3 (the cube) while the length is just to the exponent 1 (linear increase).

Apparently the boat shown in Ft. Lauderdale was indoors in the exhibit hall. Did anyone take a picture of it? Or are we still stuck looking at computer created images?

bretm1 posted 11-02-2014 02:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for bretm1  Send Email to bretm1     
I was lurking and now I can't help but ask.

Jim's observation on the lack of mentioning the Boston Whaler Unibond hull contruction begs the question:

Does the failure to mention this mean that Boston Whaler didn't use this process on the new 42 and possibly other models?

PeteB88 posted 11-02-2014 03:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for PeteB88  Send Email to PeteB88     
Hey Only" and big bucks money can also order 557HP Sevens if they want on Everglades. I agree with Jimh too. Not only are their people on board, you don't see those Eddie Bauer or semi Victoria Secret shots which are boring - Everglades show their boats in heavy water and varying conditions. I'd love to see more shots like that for sure. Been watching those videos over and over.
PeteB88 posted 11-02-2014 03:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for PeteB88  Send Email to PeteB88     
Hey Only" and big bucks money can also order 557HP Sevens if they want on Everglades. I agree with Jimh too. Not only are their people on board, you don't see those Eddie Bauer or semi Victoria Secret shots which are boring - Everglades show their boats in heavy water and varying conditions. I'd love to see more shots like that for sure. Been watching those videos over and over.
jimh posted 01-02-2015 11:07 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
In a recent issue of a trade magazine I was quite surprised to see a photograph of a Boston Whaler 420 OUTRAGE. The boat was shown underway, and there was an upper steering station. The boat appeared to be in the process of making a turn and had leaned into the turn. All of these elements made me think this was an actual photograph, not some sort of digital composite. However, there were still the strange mountains in the background.

The background landscape in all the images--whether they are real or composited--is nothing that could be seen from the coast of Florida. Either Boston Whaler has shipped their prototype 420 OUTRAGE to the Adriatic coast of Europe for photography, or some creative digital image composition has been used.

Even more curious, on the Boston Whaler website there still remain mostly computer-rendered images of the new model. Images that show the boat on the water generally look suspiciously composited.

Has anyone found an actual photograph of this new boat? One that does not show a mountainous landscape in the background?

By the way, the trade magazine used the image of the 420 OUTRAGE as the main graphic in a story about how the marine business was rebounding from the depressed outlook of the past five to six years, and there was strong interest from consumers in boating.

I have to say that I do not really have a strong interest in buying a 420 OUTRAGE as its price probably exceeds my net worth, but I am interesting in seeing a real photograph of it. If anyone can find one, please advise us.

Jeff posted 01-02-2015 11:28 AM ET (US)     Profile for Jeff  Send Email to Jeff     
Photos have been showing up on Instagram for a while now.

http://instagram.com/p/wQH6R1sQGN/
http://instagram.com/p/vHaNOBx-Vh/
http://instagram.com/p/tILmdIuiO2/
http://instagram.com/p/ux9EhkOfLZ/
http://instagram.com/p/u2plO7R-YF/
http://instagram.com/p/wM4qekvTBW/

saumon posted 01-02-2015 11:33 AM ET (US)     Profile for saumon  Send Email to saumon     
Here's a video posted yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CDAIJiqehw
saumon posted 01-02-2015 11:41 AM ET (US)     Profile for saumon  Send Email to saumon     
Here's the article related to the video above. Sure looks like Florida coastline to me...
http://www.boattest.com/Partners/Partner-Main.aspx?lp_id=298& t=BOAT-TEST&Videoid=3246&p=0&s=&a=off
Whaler27 posted 01-02-2015 12:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for Whaler27  Send Email to Whaler27     
Correct me if I wrong , but do those rear tower legs come down to the gunnel?

It looks like they do in the photos. I hope I'm seeing things.

If they do, I'd say a fisherman had no say in that part of the design or rigging. Does the butler pass you your rod back after trying to go around that obstacle?


jimh posted 01-03-2015 10:44 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
The photographs posted on Instagram seem to be just some candid shots captured by private individuals. I can't understand why Boston Whaler doesn't have product photography on their website.

The boat show walk-through video tour certainly shows a real boat--same one I saw in the photograph I mentioned with the composited mountains on the shoreline.

egres posted 01-03-2015 05:09 PM ET (US)     Profile for egres  Send Email to egres     
Another great effort from the Whaler subdivision of Brunswick. [Expressed concern that] the price of the 420 OUTRAGE would be too high [for most readers of this website]. [Began to discuss two different boats, not the 420 OUTRAGE. Please limit remarks in this thread to the 420 OUTRAGE. If you want to discuss other models of Boston Whaler, please start a new thread for those models; Thanks--jimh]
jimh posted 01-04-2015 10:11 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Maybe Boston Whaler has intentionally refrained from putting a lot of actual product photography on its website for the 420 OUTRAGE as a way of keeping the boat mysterious. Since there will be a very limited market for this Boston Whaler boat due to its anticipated extremely high price, one could speculate that product photography may not be necessary to create real buyers. If one had enough disposable income to invest in a 42-foot center console, they'd probably just fly to Florida to see the boat in person before buying one.
martyn1075 posted 01-04-2015 12:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for martyn1075  Send Email to martyn1075     
Jim very likely that is the case. For the kind of money in commission sales I wonder if they would offer an out of town special where they would do a factory tour and pay for a nights stay or dinner etc somewhere in the area? Not trying to be sarcastic, it may be a valid sales pitch. I believe the term is called "concierge service". I have noticed these days a select few realtors who sell only high end luxury homes worth several million offer this service to potential out of town qualifyed buyers. I doubt its very popular but occasionally it may work. If you sell only one house at the prices they are offered for yes I would say its worth it.
newportguy posted 01-04-2015 01:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for newportguy  Send Email to newportguy     
Hey,

Saw this pirce on the bost test web site for the 420 Outrage.

Boston Whaler 420 Outrage (2015-) Price
Boston Whaler 420 Outrage (2015-) Price Pricing Range $744,561.00
Prices, features, designs, and equipment are subject to change. Please see your local dealer or visit the builder's website for the latest information available on this.

jimh posted 01-04-2015 02:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
The published base price of $744,561 is very close to the estimates of $750,000 made months ago.
AllanR posted 01-04-2015 08:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for AllanR  Send Email to AllanR     
That 420 is truly a beautiful boat. Along with a magnificent price.

I would buy one except for one little problem. It can't get under the bridges where I live. And one other thing. My Honda Odyssey would have a bit of a problem pulling that thing up the ramp. But I wouldn't mind the view from that flybridge, instead of just standing up in my Montauk.

It is amazing to see how far Whaler has come from its roots. They are probably right about their marketing/product decisions. After all, one can still buy a small Whaler if one wishes to, but they will make as much money on one of these boats as they would on maybe a hundred of the small ones.

If I see one of those 420 Whalers on the Intracoastal, I can still point it out and say "hey guys look, just like our boat". Sort of. They are after all, both center consoles, and mine is the original from which it came.

Whaler27 posted 02-22-2015 11:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for Whaler27  Send Email to Whaler27     
After viewing boat tests of this rig I find it a sad example of what an offshore fisherman would need or want, imho.

It's a pretty boat with condo like amenities that might feel good to a rich wannabe boater trying to look like a fisherman.

The gunnel support legs for the upper station render its design useless for hardcore fishing.

The helm station console is way too tall, when you add in the top and the windshield gap seems far too narrow for quality visibility.

The leisure pad, seating and table in the bow again render it ridiculous for fisherman.

The huge cabinet behind the helm is for what? It takes up way too much room, must weigh a ton, and for a sink and prep station. Outdoor kitchen? Good luck keeping moisture out of the rear utility locker where all the important systems are located. Not a good place for a generator or battery banks. And doesn't look like room for 8D's which would be the battery size of my choice.

Sorry I have spent 30 years utilizing traditional Whalers for fishing, diving, cruising and family fun. Each one had to be re-rigged to accommodate our SoCal needs and desires, but these newer boats have zero appeal to almost all my boating friends and colleagues regardless of price.

This one might end up sinking the entire fleet and company.


Peter posted 02-23-2015 08:51 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
Was the Outrage 420 exhibited at the Miami International Boat Show? Whaler's website still has no performance reports for this model nor does it have a "Build Your Boat" function for the Outrage 420.

The video and pictures show it powered with 4 x 300 Verados. That's 1200 HP on the transom of a boat having a maximum HP rating of 1675 HP. With less than 75 percent of the maximum HP rating on the transom, I wonder whether the performance of this boat is not all that great with 4 x 300 Verados and the reason why there is no performance report on the Whaler website. Perhaps they were waiting for the 350 or 400 Verado before publishing performance reports.

jimh posted 02-23-2015 09:58 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I have not heard any reports of how the sales of the 420 OUTRAGE have been going. Certainly they won't be building any on speculation; they'll all be to-order, or as our British cousins might say, bespoke designs.

If a new boat has found a market, it is often realized rather rapidly. When Boston Whaler revealed their new 345 CONQUEST boat at the Miami International Boat Show, I happened to be there on the opening day. The Whaler sales guys told me they had sold six of them by noon. That sort of reaction to a new product seems quite encouraging. At that time, I think the 345 CONQUEST was the biggest Boston Whaler made. I wonder if there are any reports of pre-sold 420 OUTRAGE boats. Boston Whaler has now shown the boat or at least a scale model of the boat at several very large and prominent boat shows. If there were buyers lining up, they must have put in orders by now.

I don't quite understand the appeal of a monster center console boat for much of anything but very serious offshore fishing and mostly day-use, or as an indulgence for canal cruising. As a boat to cruise on for overnights or a week, I don't think a 42-foot center console would be my first choice in the price range that the 420 OUTRAGE will sell.

I guess I am out of touch with the south Florida glitzy-boat crowd. I recently spent an hour or so reading a photo-image thread on THEHULLTRUTH that showed me an amazing catalogue of outrageously large, crazily-painted, ridiculously extravagant 40-foot center console boats with monstrous multiple outboard engines. Perhaps there is some sort of south Florida cult of ostentatious and wealthy boaters which enjoys these things.

onlyawhaler posted 02-23-2015 11:51 AM ET (US)     Profile for onlyawhaler  Send Email to onlyawhaler     
As Jimh mentions, this is a real nitch boat. Its for a few that have the coin to pull it off. For Whaler, it works and it helps them. It doesn't work for most of us.

In fact, I have never helped Whaler. Its a bit embarrassing actually. I have owned 3 Outrages, all used, never new so I am a non-existent customer on Whaler records. I guess all I have done is get free Whaler magazines and have ordered a rub rail and a few deck lids through Sue at Twin Cities Marine. That's all. I certainly haven't helped their bottom line.

How's that for a local, supportive fan that has never been a first in line customer.

I am speculating that Whaler makes more off one of these 420s that they do from several dozen 20ft Outrages. That's why they do it.

Back to the 420 Outrage. Its underpowered. Boattest.com did a review on this boat with triple 300s and top speed was 49 mph. With over a 1600 Max rating, it was obvious something was coming. With the new Verado 350s on the recreational site vs racing site, this is a big improvement. Optional 400 Racing Verados, if available, would probably push this big Outrage close or over 60 mph.

For a probable purchase price of close to a million dollars loaded up with 350s or 400s, it need a better showing than the quad 300s can do.

Its a new game at Boston Whaler

Sterling
Onlyawhaler

Whaler27 posted 02-23-2015 12:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for Whaler27  Send Email to Whaler27     
Even if the coin was available, it still is a cluttered poorly designed boat for offshore fishing, and that coin would be better spent on something else.

It kinda looks like they wanted it to be all things to a wider crowd, but it missed the market on several fronts.

And no way this hull does 60 let alone over 50 unless with quad 400's and it gets what, .25 mpg?

If BW thinks they can survive in a narrow and limited market of semi custom ordered big boats, well we shall see.

It seems to mirror our society, sell to the 1% while the bulk of society falls below the middle class standards that made the recreational boat building a viable business for 30-50 years post WWII.

This economic model is not sustainable for our country let alone BW, imho.

Peter posted 02-23-2015 01:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
Today I saw a video review produced by BoatTest. The cruise speed reported was approximately 31 MPH at 4500 RPM, with a top speed of 48 MPH and it takes almost 15 SECONDS to reach 30 MPH. Those are NOT very impressive numbers for a 42 foot center console with 4 x 300 HP on the transom. I'll bet it has a hard time staying on plane below 30 MPH. I think it is underpowered with 4 x 300 HP Verados.
dgoodhue posted 02-23-2015 02:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for dgoodhue  Send Email to dgoodhue     
On Boston Whalers website, they show quad 350 Verados as an option. It should easily do 50+ with those.

48/49 mph for the base engine boat really isn't out line with the rest of Boston Whalers Outrage offerings. Using BW performance data on their website. The 320 & 370 Outrage have top speeds of 49 with 250's. The Top speed of all Conquest and engine options are under 50mph. The fastest boat whaler lists right now is the 280 at 58mph with 300's.

Peter posted 02-23-2015 05:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
I think the expectation for these large center consoles with 4 300+ HP on the transom is that they go fast. I don't think the 420 Outrage with a sub 50 MPH top speed is a strong competitor in the performance department. For example, a 42 foot Hydrasports with 4 Yamaha F350s is capable of a top speed of approximately 66 MPH. With 3 Yamaha F350s, it is capable of 54 MPH. I don't think anyone in the 40+ foot center console fan boy crowd is going to be looking very favorably at the 420 if it can't break 50 MPH with 4 x 300 HP outboards hanging on the transom.
Jefecinco posted 02-23-2015 07:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jefecinco  Send Email to Jefecinco     
Peter,

I believe high speed fishing boats are limited in the actual speed they can USE by the people aboard. The speed which they may be capable of takes on a less important complexion after 50 or 55 MPH.

Really, anything much over fifty MPH on the open ocean is seldom pleasant regardless of hull design.

Perhaps those more interested in bragging rights than actual usage will shun the 420 Outrage.

Butch

saumon posted 02-23-2015 09:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for saumon  Send Email to saumon     
That's where quad 300's can get you: http://tbo.com/south-shore/boat-crashes-into-ruskin-restaurant-20150223/ ?page=1 (this happened today in Tampa)!

kwik_wurk posted 02-23-2015 10:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for kwik_wurk  Send Email to kwik_wurk     
Well lucky no one was seriously hurt. Other than some unlucky fisher person that likely has some facial fractures after smashing into to the bow storage and gutters.

Why does this stuff happen? The boat likely was not going terribly fast, but any sort of fast in the fog is too fast. -- That's a lot of mass up the beach, I mean that boat is at least 1 or 2 boat lengths up the beach...

Can you imagine being in the channel with someone like that buzzing by you...

Jefecinco posted 02-24-2015 08:57 AM ET (US)     Profile for Jefecinco  Send Email to Jefecinco     
Hard to believe the person at the helm didn't have a working GPS and sounder. Idiot.

Butch

dgoodhue posted 02-24-2015 09:13 AM ET (US)     Profile for dgoodhue  Send Email to dgoodhue     
Boston Whaler's market has not been the go-fast crowd. All the offshore performance boat manufacturers are making performance center console boats. In fact, the performance center console has become their bread-and-butter sales. The traditional offshore performance boat sales have shrunk to a very small number of boats. Cigarette's new 41 CC with Quad 400's is supposed to do [more than] 80-MPH. Boston Whaler is just not going to compete with them. I think even with quad-400's the 420 isn't going to reach 60-MPH if it is doing under 50-MPH with 300's. If Boston Whaler designed a 42-foot twin-stepped-hull, I am sure that they could produce 60-MPH speed, but that isn't their market.

I looked at Grady White's 37 CC with three 350's and it does 57-MPH. Everglades has a 43 that is suppose to do 59-MPH with four 350's. Edgewater 38 does about 60-MPH with triple 350's. All [Boston Whaler] competitors offer smaller engine options that do [about] 50-MPH.

jimh posted 02-24-2015 10:24 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Anyone interested in achieving high speeds in a boat would not want the very large windshield and cabin top, nor the upper helm station that is shown on the Boston Whaler 420 OUTRAGE. They introduce a lot of drag and hold down top speeds. It is clear that the goal of the 420 OUTRAGE design is not to produce the highest possible speed from the hull.

People who will buy the 420 OUTRAGE want to imagine themselves dashing through big waves offshore at over 40-MPH, or they want you to imagine they will be dashing through big waves offshore at over 40-MPH, but I have my doubts that any of the 420 OUTRAGE boats will spend much of their lives dashing through big waves offshore at 40-MPH. The owners just want to be able to imagine themselves doing that, not really to do it.

dgoodhue posted 02-24-2015 12:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for dgoodhue  Send Email to dgoodhue     
On the 350 Outrage BW lists the speed with & without the upper station. The upper station losses about 3 mph.
bluewaterpirate posted 02-24-2015 01:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for bluewaterpirate  Send Email to bluewaterpirate     
Just for the sake of comparsion ....

41 foot Sea Hunter Center Console

http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv129/bluewaterpirate/420%20Outrage. jpg~original

This boat tricked out comes in around $700000 and has a big brother 45 footer pushing 1 mil.

I fish with four boaters that have center consoles with upper stations ..... believe me they don't roar around the ocean driving from the upper station. But when trolling the upper station becomes an invalubale asset seeing fish at a distance and around the boat. Veritical visiblity in the offshore water colomn is quite good so the higher you're up the better you see into the depths. One of the boats is capable of 70 + mph do we ever run that fast in the open ocean nope much less inshore just too dangerous. Have I run that fast in the open ocean yes scared the hell out of me!

As for the 420 it's a nice boat is it for everyone nope but some will find it suitable for their needs. Two have already been sold in the Wilmington NC area. It will get you where you want to go no questions asked. Would I buy one can't afford it if I could I would give it good look. My 2 cents.

If your a classic whaler boater you're going to have a hard time liking the newer models but when docked side by side with their competitors thay all have pretty much the same lines and power options.

Tom

jimh posted 02-24-2015 01:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
From the BOATTEST.COM report (linked above), the 420 OUTRAGE measured speeds and fuel consumption:

A top speed 48.2-MPH consumed 119-GPH, for a fuel economy of 0.4-MPG

A best cruising speed of 31.8-MPH consumed 52.1-GPH for a fuel economy of 0.6-MPG.

The tested weight was 29,388-lbs, driven by 1,200-HP and reaching 48.2-MPH. This suggests the Crouch's hull constant will be 238.5. A hull constant of 238.5 is in the range that Crouch suggests for "race boat type" hulls. A hull constant of 238 is also higher than many typical classic Boston Whaler moderate V-hull boats.

People seem to be complaining about the speed of the 420 OUTRAGE, but its hull seems to be more easily driven than the typical classic Boston Whaler hull. Extrapolating to the maximum horsepower rating of 1,675-HP, and assuming no more weight, a top speed is estimated at 56.9-MPH.

The fuel burn of 119-GPH while producing 1,200-HP suggests the brake specific fuel consumption of the VERADO engines is around 0.62-lbs/HP-hour, which is not an outrageously bad number. In fact, I am surprised the BSFC is that high. It is really quite good, in my opinion.

What appears to be holding down the top speed is the weight. If you want to make any object that weighs almost 30,000-lbs go really fast through the water, you will need a lot of horsepower.

Consider what could be obtained if the 420 OUTRAGE went on a diet, and the total weight were trimmed by 5,000-lbs. The top speed with full power of 1,675-HP would then be over 62-MPH. That is not in the ultra-fast offshore boat range, but it is quite a bit faster than the 48-MPH obtained with the heavy stock boat and 1,200-HP.

Comparing the performance to my own classic Boston Whaler boat, a 22-foot hull with Whaler Drive, I have observed a best speed of about 40-MPH with 225-HP and a total weight of 4800-lbs. That results in a calculated Crouch's constant of 185. This means the new 420 OUTRAGE hull is quite a bit faster than my classic hull with Whaler Drive.

If Boston Whaler had produced a 420 OUTRAGE with a hull that had a Crouch's hull constant of 185 (or the same as my classic Whaler), with the 29,338-lbs and 1,200-HP the estimated top speed would be down around 37.4-MPH. That sort of top speed would be something to be upset about. The actual 420-OUTRAGE is 10-MPH faster.

Peter posted 02-24-2015 01:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
As this is not a go-fast boat but rather apparently a big water fishing boat, I don't understand the appeal of this boat as compared to a traditional big water sport fisher. At sea I'd much rather be in a sport fisher with 2600 lbs or so of motors down low in the bilge in the middle of the boat so that the boat has a low center of gravity resulting in a higher righting moment and a deck over the bow area to reduce flooding if the bow stuffs a wave. At the dock, a 42 foot sport fisher has much better amenities for the captain and crew.

As they are neither fast enough or fuel efficient as the other 40 to 45 foot center consoles, I'll bet few of these 420 Outrages are found very far offshore. I suspect most will be run in the canals and maybe a couple of miles offshore.

onlyawhaler posted 02-24-2015 02:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for onlyawhaler  Send Email to onlyawhaler     
Jimh mentions:

"What appears to be holding down the top speed is the weight. If you want to make any object that weighs almost 30,000-lbs go really fast through the water, you will need a lot of horsepower."

Jimh is right on. In checking a close competitor, Everglades new 435 CC which comes in at close to 17,000 lbs without engines and and offers quad Yamaha V8 350s This Everglades measures on their website at 59.7 mph. That's a step up in performance and I really like those big Yamahas.

The Whaler 420 is a lot heavier and to its credit seems to have nicer below accommodations. The Everglades above deck gives nothing away and its a very nice boat.

While on hold waiting for a factory rep, it was interesting to hear the bio of Bob D being played including his long history with Boston Whaler. Some things never go away.

The rep claimed they are sold out in orders for this boat for the year from the Miami boat show.

Sterling
Onlyawhaler

Peter posted 02-24-2015 02:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
The more I compare the 420 Outrage to the other 40 to 45 foot center consoles, the more I start to think that the Outrage 420 is intended to appeal to the SeaRay crowd that wants a center console boat. Note the similarity in the 420 Outrage hull styling with the large window to the SeaRay Sundancer 410 http://global.searay.com/Page.aspx/pageId/156500/pmid/334253/ 410-Sundancer.aspx . If SeaRay offered outboard powered center console boats, it would most likely look like the 420 Outrage.
onlyawhaler posted 02-24-2015 06:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for onlyawhaler  Send Email to onlyawhaler     
Interesting Peter

A very similar look. No question in my mind that Sea Ray with its resources has a lot of influence on things.

Sterling
Onlyawhaler

Plotman posted 02-24-2015 06:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for Plotman  Send Email to Plotman     
I just shudder to think of the cost of operation at 0.4 mpg when paying on-the-water costs for gas.

I know, if you have to ask what it costs, you can't afford it...

jimh posted 02-25-2015 06:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
ASIDE to Plotman: Your comment about cost of fuel reminds me of an encounter I had last July. We were in Little Tub Harbour at Tobermory. A fleet of three very fancy, very large Viking sport fishing yachts came into the harbour in the early evening, all with home ports of Grosse Pointe, Michigan. I inquired with the captain of the smallest of the three, a modest 55-footer, about their passage. He replied the three had made the trip from Grosse Point on Lake St. Clair, up the St. Clair River, across Lake Huron, to Tobermory in a single day-long run on plane almost all the way. He then remarked that it cost him $3,400 in fuel, but, seeing that this was a "once in a lifetime trip," (his words) it was worth it.

I did not have the heart to tell him that I had visited Tobermory about a dozen times in the past 25-years, and had moved my trailerable boat up here on the highway for about $100 in fuel cost or sailed most of the way in a sailboat at no fuel cost.

Having a boat that you can make a day long run on open water of more than 250-miles is quite a nice range, but then there is the problem of replacing all of that fuel burned when you arrive in a remote area where fuel is very expensive.

Back the 420 OUTRAGE. It looks its tank holds 600-gallons. A 250-mile run at cruise will probably burn over 400-gallons, leaving a one-third reserve. Then we have to refuel up in the boonies at $5/gallon. Ouch. That is a $2,000 refill. It's probaby the same in the Bahamas re fuel cost, too.

macfam posted 02-26-2015 03:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for macfam  Send Email to macfam     
I have been staying at the newly renovated Trump Doral for the past week.
After seeing just the selection of automobiles at this world class golf resort, I can see way the 420 is sold out for the year here in Miami.
The local wealth is staggering.
bluewaterpirate posted 02-26-2015 03:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for bluewaterpirate  Send Email to bluewaterpirate     
People who buy these boats could care less about the cost of fuel. What would be interesting is to see how many have their toys attached to their businesses and write them off.

Think outside the boat a business inside a business.

Tom

jimh posted 02-26-2015 03:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
An interesting aspect of airplane identification is the tail numbers can be searched and found on public databases. A lot of fancy private planes are found to be owned by LLC-companies, and probably set up to lose money or in some way shelter their true cost of ownership. Too bad you can't find that for boats based on the registration numbers.
Plotman posted 02-26-2015 05:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for Plotman  Send Email to Plotman     
My personal view is that when you get into boats like the 420 Outrage or the Vikings JimH mentioned seeing, it's is more about being seen on the water rather than the view you see from the deck of your boat. That is largely the same whether you are on a 25 or 55-footer.

What a shame that he can only make a trip like that "once in a lifetime" versus the guy who can do it mant times in a season or even for many seasons.

For the price he quoted you that he spent on fuel for a day, my wife and I will fly to the BVI's, pay our share of a 44-foot catamaran for 10 days (basically a floating condo) and still have money left over for some nice meals ashore.

I know what I'd pick given the choice.

jimh posted 03-01-2015 05:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
It is probably good business for Brunswick that after spending multiple million dollars on expanding the production facilities in Edgewater, Florida, for their Boston Whaler boat brand that they have taken in enough orders for the new 420 OUTRAGE to keep the new plant busy for the rest of the year. However, that might only total a dozen boats. In terms of profit and return on investment, the 420 OUTRAGE is going to be a success. But it terms of building the brand, I don't think it does much for Boston Whaler.

The Boston Whaler brand was built when Dick Fisher and later CML sold hundreds and then thousands and eventually hundreds of thousands of 13-foot and 17-foot skiffs. LIFE magazine used to write articles about Dick Fisher and Boston Whaler boats. I know, I know, there isn't a LIFE magazine left to write articles about the 420 OUTRAGE, but, if there were, I don't think they would.

Without all those small boats there would not be a Boston Whaler brand, there would be no mystique about Boston Whaler, and no one would pay particular attention to the sale of a dozen 42-foot center console boats to a handful of rich guys with too much disposable income or in need of some sort of tax shelter or money-losing boat charter business who didn't mind also having to buy a four VERADO engines to go with them.

The 420 OUTRAGE is going to be a nice product for Brunswick because the boat will also produce some profit instead of just being a loss leader to create a transom for a Brunswick outboard engine. I don't know who first came up with the idea that you could make an open center console boat that was 42-feet long and sell it for more than three-quarters of a million dollars, but that guy is probably getting a boost in his management career at Brunswick.

I don't really have any idea how the 420 OUTRAGE stacks up against other 42-foot center-console boats with outboard engines because I have never given any thought to that sort of boat. It is just so far outside of my realm of interest that I don't have any sense of what it ought to be able to do. I don't know if it should be able to go 40-MPH or 60-MPH. I don't know if it should get 3-MPG or 0.3-MPG. I do know it isn't going to be trailered on the highway behind any sort of SUV or truck you could drive without a commercial driver's license and probably a book full of permits. I don't know what you do with it when your are done for the day. Do you have canvas to cover up all that open cockpit so the sun, rain, the morning dew, and the birds don't turn it into a mess in a week? At 42-feet long that boat is not the sort of boat you can show up in at a marina on a busy weekend and get a slip overnight. You'd better call ahead, plan ahead, and make reservations.

It is, perhaps, fun to talk about it, but I am not sure I want to own one. It would be too much to keep up, too much to keep at a dock, too much to run around for the day. It is, really, just too much. It is a boat with the name Boston Whaler on the side, but it really doesn't have much in common with the Boston Whaler boat that I think of.

Jefecinco posted 03-01-2015 07:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jefecinco  Send Email to Jefecinco     
As I'm not an offshore fisherman I have no use for any 42 foot fishing boat. Even if I were smart and talented enough to have so much wealth that the cost of a 42 foot fishing boat wouldn't cause me to blink I would not have one.

Of the boats I've owned I believe the Dauntless 16 was about the most ideal for my uses. I like my wife's Sport 13 and my 190 Montauk but the sixteen was just about perfect. I also owned a 24 foot SeaRay Sundancer for the better part of twenty years. It was a nice boat in it's day but I wouldn't own it again.

If I had the resources I could imagine a largish trawler type yacht such as a Grand Banks 50 and I with a Dauntless 16 for a tender. Perhaps a Sport 13 for backup would make it perfect. Another yacht I covet is an old 53 Hatteras Motor Yacht fully restored and modernized inside.

Butch

onlyawhaler posted 03-16-2015 11:57 AM ET (US)     Profile for onlyawhaler  Send Email to onlyawhaler     
Now that the Mercury Team has unveiled their new Verado 400R motor, it appears that now its a possibility that this boat can get close to a maxed out rating. Max HP for the 420 is 1675 ( an odd number in my opinion) and with the 400rs on a special order basis it can now reach 1600hp on the transom.

Any comments on the odd 1675 max hp rating on this Whaler

A previous tested number of 49 mph was reached by Boat Test. With a dry weight of approximately 22,000 lbs dry weight with no engines I would be interested to hear opinions of how fast the top speed may be at this point with these 400Rs. I think its a given these will show up on this model

I know some opinions aren't favorable towards this boat as being practical or cost effect. It isn't.

I know its not Deseret Tan with Wilcox Critten cast deck pieces, ( which I like and have owned) but its here by the manufacturer that we all like and own. Its great they are still here and respected in the market place.

In fact, I predict to our Whaler "community" here that if Whaler didn't do something like this, there would be an out cry that Whaler is falling behind the competition and not current or lacks the wherewithal to pull off something like this. I think those words would be said and it would probably be true. There would be heat either way

Good for them for the courage to push ahead and stay in the game. Sometimes a manufacturer has to be outlandish to stay in the game on a few thing. It certainly gets attention anyway.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, Bob D. at Everglades is already past this point with their competition to the 420 and he is a respected icon here.

This type of boat by Whaler is far, far beyond what I can afford ,but I wouldn't hesitate to take the helm for a day. Or two days, or,,,,,,,,

Sterling
Onlyawhaler

PeteB88 posted 03-16-2015 12:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for PeteB88  Send Email to PeteB88     
I'll only have Quad Sevens on our 42, 557 HP, $90K each, rigged.

We'll take the Mercs to the Goodwill.

Peter posted 03-16-2015 12:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
Whaler does not offer quad Verado 400Rs as an option. Only the 350s are offered. I doubt that any 420 Outrage owner would be running the outboards in the 6400+ RPM territory of the 400R for any appreciable length of time. So based on CARB certification data showing identical peak torque figures for both the 350 and 400R models, the practical operating difference between the 350 and the 400R will be minimal as both motors are likely to have the same torque curve from 0 to 6400 RPM. Based on the pricing of the 400R relative to the 350, the cost to upgrade from the 350 to 400R would be significant, almost such as to pay for a 5th 350.
Peter posted 03-16-2015 12:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
Also, regarding the odd 1675 HP rating, it just so happens that 557 x 3 = 1671.
onlyawhaler posted 03-16-2015 02:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for onlyawhaler  Send Email to onlyawhaler     
Good point Peter,

It will be interesting if Whaler will be "allowed" to bolt on something other than Mercurys to this boat.

Sterling
Onlyawhaler

dgoodhue posted 03-16-2015 02:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for dgoodhue  Send Email to dgoodhue     
I agree with Peter on the odd 1675 rating.

Using (1400/1200)^2 x 49, the boat should do about 53mph with 350 Verado's. I doubt that whaler will offer Mercury Racing 400R as an option for this boat.

Peter posted 03-16-2015 04:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
It would not surprise me to find out that Brunswick has a minority financial interest in Seven Marine nor would it surprise me that some day in the future that Seven Marine becomes part of Brunswick. If that happens they could rebrand the organization Mercury Seven Marine and pay John Glenn to be the "Chairman Emeritus" of sorts. ;)
OMCguru posted 03-16-2015 09:09 PM ET (US)     Profile for OMCguru  Send Email to OMCguru     
I think the major marine engine players will allow Seven Marine to spend the money and time to develop the very large outboard engine demand, the market, and the vessels, and then just swing in with their own design to take over once enough builders have boats that can handle 500-HP and 1000-lbs [or larger] outboards.

We can see a good example of this from the late 1990's and early 2000's when a good amount of boats could not handle 600-lbs fourstroke outboards without modification the hull, brackets, and designs. Today 600-lbs outboards are not an issue for most boats rated for a horsepower that could have engines that engines. It did take time for the market to adjust for this weight.

Seven Marine gets a lot of attention and I have been following them over the years. Even quadrupling my count to account for engines and boats that I don't know about, I theorize that the entire production of all engines ever made by Seven Marine is much less then 300 outboards total. That is even less than a niche market and most likely is not enough to warrant the research and development.

msirof2001 posted 03-17-2015 01:15 AM ET (US)     Profile for msirof2001  Send Email to msirof2001     
The Outrage 42 looks like it has a little of everything. To me, it looks like it therefore isn't that good at any one thing.

I wish they would go over the top with the Conquest (cabin) series or even the Vantage dual console series. But for the Outrage? I expect the boat version of a Hummer. A fishing machine. This Outrage 42 is like a Hummer painted pink.

I think it will quickly be terminated. I'm wondering if they have some room next to the spruce goose to put this on exhibit.

Frankly, I think Bob D & Son are more directionally in tune with what a fishing platform this size ought to be like.

Peter posted 03-17-2015 06:59 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
I think of it as an outboard powered center console for the Sea Ray customers. The Sea Ray brand can't go there so they go there with the Whaler brand.
jimh posted 03-17-2015 07:47 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
There is no doubt in the case of Brunswick boats that the design of the boat has been altered to fit the size, shape, and weight of Brunswick outboards. I happened to see a Boston Whaler 315 CONQUEST with twin VERADO engines. The engines were tilted up as far as possible to get the gear cases out of the water. The clearance between the top of the cowling and the engine well on the Boston Whaler was about two-inches. I thought, "How convenient." The dimensions of the engine splash well were perfectly sized to accommodate the VERADO. That did not happen by accident. The boat was designed for the VERADO. The splash well was dimensioned exactly to provide the room for the VERADO to tilt to the full limit of its range. You wouldn't automatically have that if you tried to bolt on a VERADO a boat designed in 1990.

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