Opinion Please: Classic Outrage 18 or Outrage 19 II

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  Opinion Please: Classic Outrage 18 or Outrage 19 II

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Author Topic:   Opinion Please: Classic Outrage 18 or Outrage 19 II

claytonb78 posted 09-26-2014 05:56 PM ET (US)
Hello Everyone,
My name is Clay and I wanted to ask for your advice. I have found a passion for fishing and fishing boats but am relatively new to the hobby. I'm 35 and a responsible boater. I bought my first boat, a 13 foot aluminum tiller, which I've finished all my projects for and now I am very much wanting to upgrade to a Whaler. Not any Whaler either, the Outrage. I've been doing a lot of reading and the Outrage seems the right boat for me. Ideally, I'm looking for a boat capable of fishing 3-4 people with the occasional extra kid or two near shore around the Virginia/Maryland waters. Most fishing will be in the Potomac but I'd like to venture out into the Chesapeake on occasion. The Outrage appeals to me for it's width, length, internal fuel, and of course that Whaler un-sinkability. Ideally I am looking for a semi-project boat and hoping to find a good winter deal for under $10K.
My question for the audience at large is, is the Outrage 19 II worth the extra money? This model really appeals to me for it's rear seating and foldable center counsel (so it fits in my garage) however I can find the Classic Outrage for a bit cheaper. For example, I found a 1988 Outrage 18 with a Yamaha 150 for under $7K or I can get an 1992 Outrage 19 II (also with a Yamaha 150) for $12K.
Please know, I'm not looking for opinions on these exact 2 boats for sale...rather just opinions if the newer Outrage 19 IIs are worth the extra money over well priced Outrage Classic. The Outrage 19 IIs weigh more, hold just a bit less weight, and have the non-removable fuel tank due to the third hull. Still, both are very trailerable, sea worthy, same dimensions, and what I think as ideal next boats for me. Any advice on these two boats is greatly appreciated.
Also, to throw a slight curve ball into the discussion, would a early/mid 90s Outrage 17 be better than the Classic Outrage 18 (if there were similarly priced)? I've been looking at Outrage boats for a few months now and am hoping to narrow down what I want soon to hopefully find my next perfect boat. Thank you.
saumon posted 09-26-2014 07:01 PM ET (US)
To me, the 650 extra pounds and encapsulated tank make the Outrage 19 II less desirable than the Outrage 18/19 I.
As for the Outrage 17 I, it's a smaller boat with less room but it's easily storable, trailerable and economical to tow and operate (not to mention somewhat hard to find in good condition).
dfmcintyre posted 09-26-2014 08:04 PM ET (US)
You raise some important points; the ability of the newer model to fold down the console, allowing it to be stored inside. How hard is it to fold down....I don't know. The need to access the fuel tank cavity becomes more important, as the age of the boat increases. It would be considerably easier to replace an 18's tank vs the 19. Some of that need would depend on where either boat has spent much of it's life; salt vs fresh water.
Regards - Don
claytonb78 posted 09-26-2014 08:15 PM ET (US)
Thank you gentleman. I've heard the extra weight of the Outrage 19 II can actually help with it's sea worthiness as it likely feels like a more stable/solid boat. The sealed gas tank is a minor concern as replacing it can be very costly and a 20 year old tank may likely need replacement soon. I will admit though, I do love the rear seating of the Outrage II as well as the foldable center counsel. I can't find any photos of what this looks like folded but it looks like the top compartment is sealed from the bottom so you essentially have two storage areas in the counsel. Also, the front bench is built into the counsel which I see as a plus over the cooler...though the cooler is nice for being removable for extra space up front.
Just sharing some thoughts going through my head. Thank you for your inputs.
Jerry Townsend posted 09-26-2014 11:58 PM ET (US)
Clay - I have the 17 Outrage II - but my thoughts regarding your choice : The additional weight does take more power to achieve the same performance - but, the added weight provides increased stability and a "softer" ride from the same water. The higher gunwales provide more free-board and are safer if you have children. The Outrage II's incorporated a drain into the deep-well from the fuel tank region - which is very nice in keeping the fuel tank region.
I use mine principally for fishing - and years ago, pulling the kids on tubes, et al. I am not interested in speed, but it gets right up on plane (at 4500 feet) with 3 - 4 adults. You would like the Outrage II. --- Jerry/Idaho
fno posted 09-27-2014 07:45 AM ET (US)
Big difference between a 17 and a 19. If you buy the 17 today, you will most likely wind up getting the 19 in a few years. (maybe sooner) Get as much boat as you can afford and tow.
jimh posted 09-27-2014 11:05 AM ET (US)
If a heavier hull were always desirable, then Boston Whaler boats whose Unibond hull double bottom foam interior was saturated with water would ride better than similar boats without water saturated foam. However, I have never seen anyone make a claim that a water-saturated foam interior was improving the ride characteristics of their Boston Whaler boat.
The influence of added weight on the ride characteristics will depend greatly on where the weight is located in the hull. If the additional weight is located on the keel centerline, amidship, and located below the deck, it may contribute to improved ride. On the other hand, if the added weight is in the ends of the boat and off keel centerline, it won't be likely to improve anything.
It is not hard to add 650-lbs of weight to a Boston Whaler boat on its keel centerline, amidships, and below the deck: just add about 100-gallons of fuel to the fuel tank, assuming of course, the fuel tank has that capacity.
On an OUTRAGE 18 classic with a 66-gallon fuel tank, one could compare the ride with very little fuel in the tank, and then fill the tank to full. The difference in weight ought to be about 60-gallons of fuel that weighs about 375-lbs. An increase in weight of 375-lbs in precisely the location where it ought to most advantageously improve the ride characteristics--if this is going to occur--should be enough to produce an observable difference.
Perhaps owners of the OUTRAGE 18 who have fueled their tanks to full from almost empty could comment on any marked or noticeable improvement in the ride characteristics that occur when the boat is heavier.
mkelly posted 09-27-2014 03:13 PM ET (US)
I have had a Outrage 19 II for 15 years now, and I love it. A buddy of has the 18; he loves it as well. I don't think you can go wrong here. The built-in tank on the 19 is nice but not a requirement, I do like the self bailing cockpit' the boat sits on a buoy during the summer, and I don't have to worry about it. In my opinion the extra weight does help [the hull] handle rough seas, but it also needs a kick in horsepower rating. [A] 200-HP would be just fine when you have a load; 150-HP isn't enough for that hull. My friend has a newer [four-stroke-power-cycle] 150-HP on the 18 says it absolutely screams. I'm guessing a little easier to operate than mine. Sounds like [cost] is an issue. Here's my two cents. If you're talking about more than two people in an Outrage, I think you should consider the c.1995 21, which has a 1-foot-4-inch-larger beam--very significant--and bench seating. The rear seating in the Outrage 19 is rarely used. The seats are very low. Most people stand rather than sit there. The OUTRAGE 21 can employ a bench seat across the stern which people will use [and has] more room getting around the center console. If you're staying in calmer waters, go with the 18. If you want a machine you will love, find a 21 with a 250-HP, and enjoy.
jimh posted 09-27-2014 03:59 PM ET (US)

quote:
Sounds like [cost] is an issue.
When isn't it? If cost is not a concern, just order a new OUTRAGE 320 with twin VERADO engines, "and enjoy." If I weren't concerned about costs, I'd have a TRUE NORTH 38 at Irish Boat Shop in Charlevoix. For most everyone I know, cost is a concern. Also, in the initial article a cost limit of $10,000 is proposed. I don't think you can find many OUTRAGE 21 boats with 250-HP modern engines for $10,000 or less.
Buckda posted 09-27-2014 05:18 PM ET (US)
I'll add another curve ball...
With a little creative rigging and some quality hardware, you can fabricate a hinge system for an 18' Outrage console...depending on how much clearance you need, you probably could make it "Fold" enough to clear your garage door. For the difference in cost ($7K vs. $12K), you could easily come out ahead ceteris parabis.
Of course, "ceteris parabis" is almost universally unobtainable when comparing used boats....a troublesome engine could easily skew the financial equation back in favor of the 19' Outrage II.
My final thought:
quote:
I'm looking for a boat capable of fishing 3-4 people with the occasional extra kid or two near shore around the Virginia/Maryland waters.

Six persons aboard an 18' Outrage including fishing gear, coolers, etc is a big crowd - especially when you have most of the "people weight" working lines and rods in the back where much of the "gear weight" is also located. The boat is best suited for two or three (one at the helm, two working rods/lines in the stern). This assumes you will be trolling.
There are 22' Outrage hulls available for under $10K if you're willing to travel and have the means to tow the boat and feed the often hungry outboard(s). That would be my ideal boat for 3-4 people plus a kid or two if that were my usual party size, especially if you're going to be in choppy water.
claytonb78 posted 09-27-2014 06:50 PM ET (US)
Thank you to everyone for your advice. I guess I should provide some clarification to comments I made earlier. While I would like a boat able to fish 3-4 people, I do 95% of my fishing with just my best friend and myself around the Potomac. Finding a passion for both boating and fishing on my boat, I'm looking at a larger boat mostly to be able to fish the Chesapeake and try our hand at deeper waters. I took my 13" tiller once out into the Chesapeake and let me tell you...we only went maybe a quarter mile out and stuck to the pylons on the overpass bridge. My little 13 tiller had no business on those waters...though it made for a good fish tale. So, long story short, I'd like a larger boat on the off chance we may bring 1-2 friends with us but largely I will be fishing 2-up with a large cooler for our catch, frozen bait, and small tackle boxes. I know the Outrage 17, 18, and 19 would all work for 2-up but I'm hoping my next boat I'll be able to use for many years so not looking to outgrow it anytime soon.
I actually almost [bought] an Outrage 17 II, but the seller became difficult to deal with so I walked. I really liked the Outrage 17 II,to be honest, but the original Outrage 18 is what attracted me to the Boston Whalers.
As for budget, I could easily afford a more expensive boat but I'd really like to stick to under $10,000 with reliable, older power. I don't mind a project boat and almost want one to keep myself busy in the winter. Boating has literally become a small passion of mine and I am never done working on my boat projects. I've often heard the advice to buy as much boat as you can afford, which is why I am leaning towards the larger Outrage 18/19. Plus, I need it to fit in my garage (Outrage 18/19 with power will likely be turned slightly sideways to fit). I'm not worried about removing the upper grab rail and windshield, at least initially, and I'd be happy to modify it down the road to be easily removed.
With that said, I really appreciate everyone's advice and I will admit, I am still very much on the fence between the Outrage 17/18/19 and I think it will come down to the right deal with good power (ideally a Yamaha 150 though on the 17 and classic 18 I think a 115 would work). I should also mention I don't care about top speed. More so reliability, safety, and ideally a wee bit of fuel economy if possible.
Thank you for everyone's advice and if anyone has anything else they'd like to share, please do. Thank you.
jimh posted 09-27-2014 07:12 PM ET (US)
Back to the initial question: in selecting between an OUTRAGE 18 and an OUTRAGE 19 II, I would base most of the factors on condition, with price also being weighed. I might pay a little more for an OUTRAGE 19 II on the basis that it will probably be a newer boat, and thus a newer engine and newer trailer. That advantage could be overcome by a boat's condition.
If the fold-down center console is a factor in your decision, it sounds like a plus for the OUTRAGE 19 II.
george nagy posted 09-28-2014 10:22 AM ET (US)
I have put my OUTRAGE 18 in a standard 7-foot-high garage before, and it fit. The 18's console is not as tall as the 19's. I did need to remove the rail only, not the windscreen, and jack down the tongue to clear the tie beam, and the trailer played a big part of the clearance. My old trailer was a float-on style that sat the hull above the wheels and fenders/ The current keel-roller trailer, though wider, sits the hull between the wheels, thus lowering the hull quite a bit. I prefer the keel roller trailer as it isn't necessary to back the car near the saltwater, which was often necessary with the float-on style trailer.
I would vote for the OUTRAGE 18, having owned two, so far, and probably holding on to the one I have now forever. The OUTRAGE 18 is very versatile and [not] cluttered by the built-ins. Depending on the weight of the engine and location of the batteries, the OUTRAGE 18 will self-bail with the plug out. There was a change made to the engine well some time between 1987 and 1990 which eliminated the lower splash well center drain area, allowing for no water below the waterline to collect.
The weight of the OUTRAGE 18 has always been a topic for discussion, as it is often commonly agreed upon that it was listed a little under its actual weight. It is very easy to add weight to a boat on top of the bare hull with rigging, people and gear. It is much more difficult to remove the bare hull weight. I don't know if I like the idea of the encapsulated tank; many here have needed to replace their tanks.
I like the ride of the OUTRAGE 18 and don't fill the tank past halfway--30 gallons or so--as to be able to keep the freshest fuel in there as possible.
I think that ultimately your decision may come down to which one is in the best condition and the best value for the money. Either way those hulls are a great ride for that size of boat.
Marko888 posted 09-29-2014 08:52 PM ET (US)
I'm an Outrage 18 owner and love the boat. I believe the Outrage 18 hulls weigh about 1,600-lbs, making the difference between the 18/19 much less than 650-lbs.
Given the crew size proposed, I would not go smaller than the 18/19. We find four adults and gear to feel somewhat full when salmon fishing. An OUTRAGE 20 or OUTRAGE 22 would be better on your full load days.
I have never been out in an Outrage 19, but our OUTRAGE 18 does ride better when full of fuel, but handles better when light, so I'd suggest save some money and get an 18. You can then simply adjust the ballast with fuel load to suit the conditions.
Also, I think an optional stern seat in an 18 would be nicer than the small quarter seats in a 19. The stern quarters are always the wettest spots in a small boat and the full width stern seat can be left on the dock when not needed, opening up more space.
PeteB88 posted 09-30-2014 01:08 PM ET (US)
They're all great boats. I have 95 Outrage 17 with quarter seats that people actually sit on and enjoy. I have thought about same boat but 19 and going to a 22. Nevertheless, the more we use our 17 the more we like it - much more boat than a Montauk, which is what the previous owner and a couple others who had Montauks before made clear. For my use it's been perfect. A HS classmate of ours and her husband just bought a 19 and I can't wait to go for a ride in it to satisfy my curiosity of 17 v 19, same model run, as mine.
The more weight in my boat the better the ride. I routinely have four adults up front (Ellen and her girlfriends) comfortably and having fun all day long, Usually one more back with me, for six total and no problem, no complaints, food, too many bags, towels, picnic kits, fishing rods, I am dead serious and never a problem especially with that big console and a couple of dry bags.
The other thing that's amazing is our boat is a dry boat - never a problem
I guess the point is more weight, more waterline, Outrage hull = better ride and performance in snotty conditions.
Like the previous owner said when I asked him if the boat had a name…
"Well She's Just Seventeen, YOU"LL Know What I Mean… and I don't want to sell this boat!! and You better take care of it (threatening tone)"
Hey at least you're not looking at 4 Winns - you're in the right neighborhood.
PeteB88 posted 09-30-2014 01:08 PM ET (US)
They're all great boats. I have 95 Outrage 17 with quarter seats that people actually sit on and enjoy. I have thought about same boat but 19 and going to a 22. Nevertheless, the more we use our 17 the more we like it - much more boat than a Montauk, which is what the previous owner and a couple others who had Montauks before made clear. For my use it's been perfect. A HS classmate of ours and her husband just bought a 19 and I can't wait to go for a ride in it to satisfy my curiosity of 17 v 19, same model run, as mine.
The more weight in my boat the better the ride. I routinely have four adults up front (Ellen and her girlfriends) comfortably and having fun all day long, Usually one more back with me, for six total and no problem, no complaints, food, too many bags, towels, picnic kits, fishing rods, I am dead serious and never a problem especially with that big console and a couple of dry bags.
The other thing that's amazing is our boat is a dry boat - never a problem
I guess the point is more weight, more waterline, Outrage hull = better ride and performance in snotty conditions.
Like the previous owner said when I asked him if the boat had a name…
"Well She's Just Seventeen, YOU"LL Know What I Mean… and I don't want to sell this boat!! and You better take care of it (threatening tone)"
Hey at least you're not looking at 4 Winns - you're in the right neighborhood.
martyn1075 posted 09-30-2014 02:02 PM ET (US)
I think both the 17 and 19 outrage are good choices. The 19 just has more space the other differences are not that much to spill your coffee over. The 19 will likely require a bigger hp rating motor which means more expense on replacing the motor if the time comes. On the used market probably wouldn't be that much more but new it would. I think I personally prefer the taller console design on the 19 outrage II. If you can find the 1990-91 classic Outrage 19 I would take a snap at one of those. Perfect everything as it had the dark dessert color gelcoat classic look and function and yes unique taller designed console which is only on the very last years of the glory days of Boston Whaler.
martyn1075 posted 09-30-2014 02:09 PM ET (US)
On the topic of non removable gas tanks, did the Outrage 19 IIs have plastic tanks?
PeteB88 posted 09-30-2014 03:37 PM ET (US)
My 95 has metal tank - probably Al, geeks would know. I understand some of the earlier models had fuel tanks in the rear instead of under the floor - Rohlfing knows and can clarify. I operate in fresh water and have thought about pulling floor boards up for inspection. CW crew advised against it. There are several 17 owners and former owners on CW including Phil who operated his boat in Maine waters.
Don't trip on it or over analyze. Set high bar for condition and low bar for price.
Best time of year for sure.
Jerry Townsend posted 09-30-2014 08:26 PM ET (US)
Whaler's policy 15 years ago when I had a private tour by one their engineers was - built in fuel tanks with at least 40 gallons were aluminum. --- Jerry/Idaho

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