Removing 12-Gallon Portable Fuel Tanks from Boat for Filling

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Author Topic:   Removing 12-Gallon Portable Fuel Tanks from Boat for Filling

Mike Kub posted 10-06-2014 09:40 AM ET (US)
How many of you remove [your 12-gallon on-deck portable fuel tanks from the boat to fill them]? [Notes that instruction say to remove tank from boat for filling.]
Jefecinco posted 10-06-2014 09:46 AM ET (US)
I'm way too old and feeble to deal with that much weight. I can just about manage the six gallon tank in my 13. Generally I fill it in the boat. I'm considering switching to two three gallon tanks.
I think it's safer overall to fill the tank in the boat. The instructions were probably approved by an attorney.
Butch
jimh posted 10-06-2014 09:58 AM ET (US)
I do not remove my 12-gallon on-deck fuel tank from the cockpit of my boat when filling it.
GRAND NUSSIE posted 10-06-2014 09:58 AM ET (US)
I have two twelve gallon tanks under the console of my Sakonnet. Never. Pardon the pun but Butch and I are in the same boat!
Dick
Binkster posted 10-06-2014 11:52 AM ET (US)
Twelve gallons of gas weighs 77-lbs, and, with the weight of the empty tank, it is probably 85-lbs you [are] lifting into your boat. Don't apologize for your age or feebleness.
DVollrath posted 10-06-2014 12:00 PM ET (US)
I remove my 12 gallon tanks from my Montauk for filling. This is from my marina when the boat is in the water, so it is lower and easier than when on a trailer.
Dennis
jimh posted 10-06-2014 12:20 PM ET (US)
The deck height of many fuel docks at ports where I might buy fuel is often so high that they are literally over my head when standing in the boat cockpit. To attempt to lower 85-lbs of fuel sloshing in an awkward plastic fuel tank would be extremely risky--far more risky that filling the tank in its operating position on the boat deck.
Whether or not the manufacturer of the portable fuel tank claims to prohibit use of a certain procedure for filling, one has to use some common sense. The notion that the tank manufacturer can dictate the method of filling seems rather odd. It is probably some meaningless legal maneuver of dubious worth. This seems akin to the publishers of navigation charts disclaiming that the navigation charts they publish are not to be used for navigation. If someone makes and sells a fuel tank, and the tank has a fuel filler port on the tank itself, what possible difference can it make if fuel is introduced into the tank when it is on the deck of a boat or on the deck of a pier?
The disclaimer on the tank is probably intended to limit the liability of the manufacturer in the event of a fuel spill during fueling to tank. I am not aware of any federal, state, or local regulations in my area that proscribe such restrictions on fueling. If you spill fuel into the water, you are at risk for fines for pollution.
jimh posted 10-06-2014 12:38 PM ET (US)
On further investigation, a risk of fire due to static electrical built-up and discharge as a spark which ignites gasoline or gasoline vapors may exist with plastic tanks, and to reduce this risk there is a general recommendation of having the plastic fuel tank placed on ground--literally on the ground or earth.
This advisory on filling portable containers describes the risk and some incidents:
https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/sfm/public-education/Documents/ Home%20Fire%20Safety%20Information/GasolineContainers.pdf
Regarding static electrical built up on a person walking on a boat deck, I have never experienced any sort of static discharge on my boat. The general wetness of the deck seems to me to reduce the possibility of static built up from walking across it.
In the case of a plastic fuel tank, the tank itself is not a very good conductor. Setting the tank on a wooden pier that extends a long distance from the shore (earth ground) is also not likely to provide much of an electrical path to ground.
One assumes that the metal nozzle of the fuel hose dispenser is grounded to the electrical system of the fuel dock. If the metal nozzle is grounded and held in contact with the portable fuel tank inlet wall during fueling, the portable fuel tank will have a ground connection.
I don't see any more risk than fueling your automobile. Your automobile is not connected to an earth ground because the rubber tires insulate it. When fueling, the nozzle of the gasoline hose may be the ground connection.
DVollrath posted 10-06-2014 02:30 PM ET (US)
Perhaps I should clarify my situation so as to avoid misunderstanding. I am a larger individual, but I wouldn't say I'm particularly strong.
The marina where I keep my boat does not have a fueling dock. My tanks, fuel hoses, and outboard are all 2011 or newer, and set up for ethanol gas. The easiest and cheapest way for me to fill tanks is to lift the empty tank out of the boat, and take it to a gas station. Back at the marina, I use one of the carts to haul it/them down to my boat. I lower the tank onto the railing of my Montauk, and step into the boat. I then set it on the deck and slide into place.
This works for me because the dock is low and the gunwale rail is a number of inches higher. I find the hardest part of the whole process is lifting the tank back into my car after filling.
Didn't mean to come off as macho. I'm just cheap.
Dennis
Mike Kub posted 10-06-2014 05:35 PM ET (US)
Thanks guys. I just put a new F 150 on my '86 Outrage with the original fuel tank. Engine was about 15 K and although I had no issues that I know of with the fuel I was a bit suspicious . The fuel economy with the new engine is so good I can do what I want with 2 - 12 gal. tanks that fit beneath my RPS. Will eventually get original tank replaced . Love that boat. Peace
dfmcintyre posted 10-06-2014 06:20 PM ET (US)
However, Keep in mind the static buildup, especially in the winter months with low humidity, wearing wool and sliding across a leather seat. Ground yourself before touching the fuel nozzle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuZxFL9cGkI
Binkster posted 10-06-2014 06:31 PM ET (US)
Dennis
Or. you can buy a couple of 6 gallon gas cans and accomplish the same job, only easier and safer.
rich
DVollrath posted 10-06-2014 09:39 PM ET (US)
Rich,
It's working pretty good for me now, but when I find it is too much of a hassle, I'll likely just not fill the tanks as full rather than buy smaller tanks.
Thanks.
Dennis
jimh posted 10-06-2014 10:09 PM ET (US)
Don--That is a great recording. The PEI--their watermark appears on the recording in the lower right--has been quoted as noting that almost all the incidents of fire being starting while fueling have occurred to women who did not stay at the fuel filler holding the handle from the pump, but instead went away and sat in their cars. See
http://www.snopes.com/autos/hazards/static.asp
I wonder what sort of shoes the woman was wearing. They apparently gave her very good insulation from ground.
JMARTIN posted 10-07-2014 07:23 PM ET (US)
An empty fuel tank sliding around in the back of a pickup on a plastic bed liner is a good creator of static electricity also. Place the tank on the ground before filling.
John
dfmcintyre posted 10-08-2014 01:44 PM ET (US)
Another factor is the amount of wind during fueling. Worst case scenario would be super cold, low humidity, no wind night, and the victim wearing wool, sliding across a leather seat. Best case would be someone filling a tank, in a monsoon.
jimh posted 10-10-2014 01:15 AM ET (US)
Are there any reports of any static electricity sparking of a fire on a boat with a plastic on-deck fuel tank being filled?

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Author	Topic: Removing 12-Gallon Portable Fuel Tanks from Boat for Filling
Mike Kub	posted 10-06-2014 09:40 AM ET (US) How many of you remove [your 12-gallon on-deck portable fuel tanks from the boat to fill them]? [Notes that instruction say to remove tank from boat for filling.]
Jefecinco	posted 10-06-2014 09:46 AM ET (US) I'm way too old and feeble to deal with that much weight. I can just about manage the six gallon tank in my 13. Generally I fill it in the boat. I'm considering switching to two three gallon tanks. I think it's safer overall to fill the tank in the boat. The instructions were probably approved by an attorney. Butch
jimh	posted 10-06-2014 09:58 AM ET (US) I do not remove my 12-gallon on-deck fuel tank from the cockpit of my boat when filling it.
GRAND NUSSIE	posted 10-06-2014 09:58 AM ET (US) I have two twelve gallon tanks under the console of my Sakonnet. Never. Pardon the pun but Butch and I are in the same boat! Dick
Binkster	posted 10-06-2014 11:52 AM ET (US) Twelve gallons of gas weighs 77-lbs, and, with the weight of the empty tank, it is probably 85-lbs you [are] lifting into your boat. Don't apologize for your age or feebleness.
DVollrath	posted 10-06-2014 12:00 PM ET (US) I remove my 12 gallon tanks from my Montauk for filling. This is from my marina when the boat is in the water, so it is lower and easier than when on a trailer. Dennis
jimh	posted 10-06-2014 12:20 PM ET (US) The deck height of many fuel docks at ports where I might buy fuel is often so high that they are literally over my head when standing in the boat cockpit. To attempt to lower 85-lbs of fuel sloshing in an awkward plastic fuel tank would be extremely risky--far more risky that filling the tank in its operating position on the boat deck. Whether or not the manufacturer of the portable fuel tank claims to prohibit use of a certain procedure for filling, one has to use some common sense. The notion that the tank manufacturer can dictate the method of filling seems rather odd. It is probably some meaningless legal maneuver of dubious worth. This seems akin to the publishers of navigation charts disclaiming that the navigation charts they publish are not to be used for navigation. If someone makes and sells a fuel tank, and the tank has a fuel filler port on the tank itself, what possible difference can it make if fuel is introduced into the tank when it is on the deck of a boat or on the deck of a pier? The disclaimer on the tank is probably intended to limit the liability of the manufacturer in the event of a fuel spill during fueling to tank. I am not aware of any federal, state, or local regulations in my area that proscribe such restrictions on fueling. If you spill fuel into the water, you are at risk for fines for pollution.
jimh	posted 10-06-2014 12:38 PM ET (US) On further investigation, a risk of fire due to static electrical built-up and discharge as a spark which ignites gasoline or gasoline vapors may exist with plastic tanks, and to reduce this risk there is a general recommendation of having the plastic fuel tank placed on ground--literally on the ground or earth. This advisory on filling portable containers describes the risk and some incidents: https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/sfm/public-education/Documents/ Home%20Fire%20Safety%20Information/GasolineContainers.pdf Regarding static electrical built up on a person walking on a boat deck, I have never experienced any sort of static discharge on my boat. The general wetness of the deck seems to me to reduce the possibility of static built up from walking across it. In the case of a plastic fuel tank, the tank itself is not a very good conductor. Setting the tank on a wooden pier that extends a long distance from the shore (earth ground) is also not likely to provide much of an electrical path to ground. One assumes that the metal nozzle of the fuel hose dispenser is grounded to the electrical system of the fuel dock. If the metal nozzle is grounded and held in contact with the portable fuel tank inlet wall during fueling, the portable fuel tank will have a ground connection. I don't see any more risk than fueling your automobile. Your automobile is not connected to an earth ground because the rubber tires insulate it. When fueling, the nozzle of the gasoline hose may be the ground connection.
DVollrath	posted 10-06-2014 02:30 PM ET (US) Perhaps I should clarify my situation so as to avoid misunderstanding. I am a larger individual, but I wouldn't say I'm particularly strong. The marina where I keep my boat does not have a fueling dock. My tanks, fuel hoses, and outboard are all 2011 or newer, and set up for ethanol gas. The easiest and cheapest way for me to fill tanks is to lift the empty tank out of the boat, and take it to a gas station. Back at the marina, I use one of the carts to haul it/them down to my boat. I lower the tank onto the railing of my Montauk, and step into the boat. I then set it on the deck and slide into place. This works for me because the dock is low and the gunwale rail is a number of inches higher. I find the hardest part of the whole process is lifting the tank back into my car after filling. Didn't mean to come off as macho. I'm just cheap. Dennis
Mike Kub	posted 10-06-2014 05:35 PM ET (US) Thanks guys. I just put a new F 150 on my '86 Outrage with the original fuel tank. Engine was about 15 K and although I had no issues that I know of with the fuel I was a bit suspicious . The fuel economy with the new engine is so good I can do what I want with 2 - 12 gal. tanks that fit beneath my RPS. Will eventually get original tank replaced . Love that boat. Peace
dfmcintyre	posted 10-06-2014 06:20 PM ET (US) However, Keep in mind the static buildup, especially in the winter months with low humidity, wearing wool and sliding across a leather seat. Ground yourself before touching the fuel nozzle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuZxFL9cGkI
Binkster	posted 10-06-2014 06:31 PM ET (US) Dennis Or. you can buy a couple of 6 gallon gas cans and accomplish the same job, only easier and safer. rich
DVollrath	posted 10-06-2014 09:39 PM ET (US) Rich, It's working pretty good for me now, but when I find it is too much of a hassle, I'll likely just not fill the tanks as full rather than buy smaller tanks. Thanks. Dennis
jimh	posted 10-06-2014 10:09 PM ET (US) Don--That is a great recording. The PEI--their watermark appears on the recording in the lower right--has been quoted as noting that almost all the incidents of fire being starting while fueling have occurred to women who did not stay at the fuel filler holding the handle from the pump, but instead went away and sat in their cars. See http://www.snopes.com/autos/hazards/static.asp I wonder what sort of shoes the woman was wearing. They apparently gave her very good insulation from ground.
JMARTIN	posted 10-07-2014 07:23 PM ET (US) An empty fuel tank sliding around in the back of a pickup on a plastic bed liner is a good creator of static electricity also. Place the tank on the ground before filling. John
dfmcintyre	posted 10-08-2014 01:44 PM ET (US) Another factor is the amount of wind during fueling. Worst case scenario would be super cold, low humidity, no wind night, and the victim wearing wool, sliding across a leather seat. Best case would be someone filling a tank, in a monsoon.
jimh	posted 10-10-2014 01:15 AM ET (US) Are there any reports of any static electricity sparking of a fire on a boat with a plastic on-deck fuel tank being filled?