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Author Topic:   Removing Trailer From Under Boat

jimh posted 10-18-2014 09:47 AM ET (US)
Here is a nice recorded presentation of a method of jacking up a boat and removing the boat trailer from under the boat:
http://ec2-67-202-56-139.compute-1.amazonaws.com/wordpress/2013/07/29/ safely-move-your-boat-off-your-trailer/
Jefecinco posted 10-18-2014 11:17 AM ET (US)
Excellent presentation. Thanks for sharing it.
Butch
andygere posted 10-18-2014 04:05 PM ET (US)
That was a good video showing how to get a boat off of a trailer without a travel lift or fork lift. I used a similar method to take my Montauk off the trailer many years ago, however that was made easier by having keel rollers on the trailer that allowed the boat to be removed without jacking from the keel. The only jack I used was the tongue jack on the boat trailer to raise the stern. I did sink some anchor bolts into my concrete driveway and secured the stern of the boat to them with a heavy strap to insure against pulling the boat off of the stands when pulling the trailer out from under it. Looking back at the photos, I noticed that I blocked the boat using cinder blocks in a dangerous orientation. Don't use them as pictured, use solid wood blocks. In the stern, I used automotive jack stands fitted with wooden blocks. These worked well for a small boat like the Montauk, but probably lack stability for a larger boat.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/andygere/Bottom%20Painting/ AUT_0229_zps9a8a3a31.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/andygere/Bottom%20Painting/ AUT_0227_zps3c5c4ef4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/andygere/Bottom%20Painting/ AUT_0226_zps7114f0df.jpg
I think the use of professional quality boat stands would be a must for a boat like my Outrage 22 Cuddy. When I first painted that hull, I had a boatyard put the boat on stands with the travel lift, which made the job easy but added cost. I'm not sure I'd want to lift the forward weight of that hull with a single bottle jack either. The boat in the video is an inboard with a traditional keel, which provides a very strong place to jack from.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/andygere/Bottom%20Painting/taped. jpg
Note that bottom painting is no fun. After doing the Montauk in the driveway, and the first bottom job on the Outrage at a boatyard, I've retired from full bottom jobs, only doing waterline touch ups between the professional jobs done in the yard. Using a good quality ablative paint, I can go 3 years between full paint jobs. I keep the boat in the water an average of 10 months a year, so I think that is pretty good life. I figured out the wage I would have been paying myself to do it myself, and that made the decision easy.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/andygere/Bottom%20Painting/ priming.jpg
Binkster posted 10-24-2014 10:50 AM ET (US)
It's not difficult to remove an outboard boat from its trailer in a boat yard as they have all the professional equipment on hand, as shown in the above pics. Inboards with a keel are more difficult and probably should be left for the boatyard workers. On the the other hand, removing your outboard Whaler from its trailer can be done in your back yard without much of a hassle. Concrete blocks can be used, as in Andy's pic, but they should always be set in a upwards position, not sideways as he has done. Sideways is a weak position and is risky, this has been covered before on this forum. I also don't like the use of the two jack stands at the transom. With the 4x4s on top of the raised jackstands, its way to high, and some sideways thrust could topple the boat. Again he should have used concrete blocks, and if mmore than one is needed for height, a piece of 1x8 or 2x8 should be between the blocks.
That picture should be used as a how not to do it, but I guess you can get away with it most of the time.

rich
contender posted 10-24-2014 02:57 PM ET (US)
You should never use concrete block for support, You can get a bad casting and it can be cracked in the inside, thus failing under a load. You should use either jacks, solid wood, or pieces of dense Styrofoam. It only takes once...
deepwater posted 10-25-2014 02:49 AM ET (US)
I used old tires and short 2x4s to keep the hull level
Binkster posted 10-25-2014 08:51 AM ET (US)
I built homes with concrete block exterier walls in Florida for many years, and never saw a block with a hidden crack, If it is cracked it will be visable. I would guess that styrofoam blocks would be the best and easiest method of support, but where can you get them.
rich
andygere posted 10-25-2014 02:09 PM ET (US)
The jack stands were not ideal, but they were not carrying much load at all. I simply used them to balance the boat. The custom made blocks on top of them were constructed so they would not rock or fall off. All the weight was on the keel supports. Note that I also kept the boat tied to anchor bolts in the driveway to discourage any movement.
Clearly the way I used the concrete blocks was dangerous, I didn't know any better at the time. I think oriented vertically with a 2x8 timber on top would have been fine.
As I said, this is an easy technique for a skiff like a Montauk, and it gets more difficult and more dangerous as the boat gets bigger.
russellbailey posted 10-26-2014 12:12 PM ET (US)
I pulled my Outrage 25 off its keel roller trailer yesterday for the first time in about 3 hours solo. Used 3 cut-up 6x6 stacked for the keel, two Brownell MB4 boat stands on the rear sides, and some concrete blocks for the front sides. I used a come-a-long to get the boat enough off the trailer to stay put on the rear blocks and slowly pulled the trailer forward, only using a bottle jack for the most forward spot as I pulled the final 4' of trailer out.
The boat stands really helped make it easy to do. I suspect I could do it in an hour or so now. I'll post a link to some pictures later.
Jefecinco posted 10-27-2014 10:00 AM ET (US)
When using purpose made boat stands it is recommended to chain pairs together to prevent them from slipping out from under the hull. This method is particularly recommended when using the stands under "V" hulls. Even when the keel blocking is completed securing the stand pairs together will help prevent slipping in high winds or when the boat is bumped.
Butch
russellbailey posted 10-27-2014 11:19 AM ET (US)
Here are the shots plus more detail.
http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/russellbailey3/library/ 2014-10%20Whaler%20on%20Blocks
1. I kept the trailer hooked to the car which let me have the boat weight get way back on the trailer and avoid bottle jacking between the numerous (5 I think) cross members.
2. My Suburban has rear air bags (Hellwig) instead of coils. I can adjust the rear ride height by about 6" (I don't use it for height normally - I use it to better handle the 700 lb tongue weight of the loaded trailer). The height variation allowed me to do a variant of the trailer tongue jack approach but with the trailer hooked to the car.
3. I got the boat to slide back an initial 2 feet by slackening the strap, backing up and hitting the brakes. I then put the stern keel blocking (cut up 6x6) and the MB-4 stands in place and pumped the Suburban air bags up to raise the trailer tongue about 6".
4. I tried pulling slowly forward at that point, but the boat slid on the blocking. So, I connected a come-a-long between the bow eye and the trailer, and used it to slide the boat back a couple of inches at a time, then pull the trailer forward a couple of inches, then repeat. After about 6" there was enough weight on the stern keel blocking that the boat no longer slid as I slowly pulled the trailer forward.
5. I stopped when I got about 10' suspended to add more keel blocking (Pictures 1-5 are at this point)
6. I pulled the trailer about 8 more feet forward, with the boat just rolling along the keel rollers. I stopped at this point and decided a 3rd keel support would be appropriate. I temporarily used a bottle jack to slightly lift the bow so that I could turn all the keel rollers by hand, and then pulled the trailer the rest of the way out. (Pictures 6-7). At this point the boat had two main points of support (keel blocking) and two big stablizers (the boat stands). Before I pulled the trailer out I checked the boat for stability.
I needed another cut up 6x6 to make the third keel blocking, and I decided to get some concrete blocks as a redundancy to stabilize the boat side to side. I had to go to the store to get those. Just due to the rear boatstands, the boat was very stable. With the 1000 lbs of Optimax's hanging off the boat, I don't really think the forward side supports are really necessary, but I added them as a precaution. The rest of the pictures is how I left it.
I followed the Brownell guidance in planning the boat supports, with the exception of using the bow side supports. Jefecinco, Brownell does not recommend a chain except on the sailboat stands - as you can see in these pictures there is no way those stands can slide out since they are under the chine.
I really liked the stands and may see if I can use the MB-3 model in place of the bow blocks. I don't want the sailboat stands due to storage.
You can see the Airmar SS264 transducer in one of the shots. The surface appears rippled but that is just the reflection of the gravel.
The boat is off the trailer to replace the leaf spring axles on my Continental 10k trailer with Dexter Torflex axles. I talked with Jeff at SlideOn about potentially getting a new trailer to try to get a smoother ride, and he encourage me to just try new axles and helped me size them and shipped them to me. It will be a few weeks before I get that done.
Jefecinco posted 10-27-2014 05:40 PM ET (US)
Russel,
I agree that it's unlikely your stands will slip out due to the chines and/or strakes.
My comment wasn't intended for you nor motivated by your post. Well, maybe seeing the brand name "Brownell" clicked something in my head. But my comment was simply meant as a general reminder to anyone following the thread.
When I had a SeaRay Sundancer 240 it was wet slipped for several years before I bought a trailer. I bought a set of four Brownell stands to secure the boat for winter storage in the marina. It would be lifted by a trael-lift and deposited on the stands and keel blocking. Those old circa 1978 stands had a loop welded on the stands specifically for securing the pairs together. I don't know why Bownell would say the stands should not be secured together given. the number of slack bilged and deep "V" hulls without running strakes. Seems to me no harm would be done.
Butch

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Author	Topic: Removing Trailer From Under Boat
jimh	posted 10-18-2014 09:47 AM ET (US) Here is a nice recorded presentation of a method of jacking up a boat and removing the boat trailer from under the boat: http://ec2-67-202-56-139.compute-1.amazonaws.com/wordpress/2013/07/29/ safely-move-your-boat-off-your-trailer/
Jefecinco	posted 10-18-2014 11:17 AM ET (US) Excellent presentation. Thanks for sharing it. Butch
andygere	posted 10-18-2014 04:05 PM ET (US) That was a good video showing how to get a boat off of a trailer without a travel lift or fork lift. I used a similar method to take my Montauk off the trailer many years ago, however that was made easier by having keel rollers on the trailer that allowed the boat to be removed without jacking from the keel. The only jack I used was the tongue jack on the boat trailer to raise the stern. I did sink some anchor bolts into my concrete driveway and secured the stern of the boat to them with a heavy strap to insure against pulling the boat off of the stands when pulling the trailer out from under it. Looking back at the photos, I noticed that I blocked the boat using cinder blocks in a dangerous orientation. Don't use them as pictured, use solid wood blocks. In the stern, I used automotive jack stands fitted with wooden blocks. These worked well for a small boat like the Montauk, but probably lack stability for a larger boat. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/andygere/Bottom%20Painting/ AUT_0229_zps9a8a3a31.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/andygere/Bottom%20Painting/ AUT_0227_zps3c5c4ef4.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/andygere/Bottom%20Painting/ AUT_0226_zps7114f0df.jpg I think the use of professional quality boat stands would be a must for a boat like my Outrage 22 Cuddy. When I first painted that hull, I had a boatyard put the boat on stands with the travel lift, which made the job easy but added cost. I'm not sure I'd want to lift the forward weight of that hull with a single bottle jack either. The boat in the video is an inboard with a traditional keel, which provides a very strong place to jack from. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/andygere/Bottom%20Painting/taped. jpg Note that bottom painting is no fun. After doing the Montauk in the driveway, and the first bottom job on the Outrage at a boatyard, I've retired from full bottom jobs, only doing waterline touch ups between the professional jobs done in the yard. Using a good quality ablative paint, I can go 3 years between full paint jobs. I keep the boat in the water an average of 10 months a year, so I think that is pretty good life. I figured out the wage I would have been paying myself to do it myself, and that made the decision easy. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/andygere/Bottom%20Painting/ priming.jpg
Binkster	posted 10-24-2014 10:50 AM ET (US) It's not difficult to remove an outboard boat from its trailer in a boat yard as they have all the professional equipment on hand, as shown in the above pics. Inboards with a keel are more difficult and probably should be left for the boatyard workers. On the the other hand, removing your outboard Whaler from its trailer can be done in your back yard without much of a hassle. Concrete blocks can be used, as in Andy's pic, but they should always be set in a upwards position, not sideways as he has done. Sideways is a weak position and is risky, this has been covered before on this forum. I also don't like the use of the two jack stands at the transom. With the 4x4s on top of the raised jackstands, its way to high, and some sideways thrust could topple the boat. Again he should have used concrete blocks, and if mmore than one is needed for height, a piece of 1x8 or 2x8 should be between the blocks. That picture should be used as a how not to do it, but I guess you can get away with it most of the time. rich
contender	posted 10-24-2014 02:57 PM ET (US) You should never use concrete block for support, You can get a bad casting and it can be cracked in the inside, thus failing under a load. You should use either jacks, solid wood, or pieces of dense Styrofoam. It only takes once...
deepwater	posted 10-25-2014 02:49 AM ET (US) I used old tires and short 2x4s to keep the hull level
Binkster	posted 10-25-2014 08:51 AM ET (US) I built homes with concrete block exterier walls in Florida for many years, and never saw a block with a hidden crack, If it is cracked it will be visable. I would guess that styrofoam blocks would be the best and easiest method of support, but where can you get them. rich
andygere	posted 10-25-2014 02:09 PM ET (US) The jack stands were not ideal, but they were not carrying much load at all. I simply used them to balance the boat. The custom made blocks on top of them were constructed so they would not rock or fall off. All the weight was on the keel supports. Note that I also kept the boat tied to anchor bolts in the driveway to discourage any movement. Clearly the way I used the concrete blocks was dangerous, I didn't know any better at the time. I think oriented vertically with a 2x8 timber on top would have been fine. As I said, this is an easy technique for a skiff like a Montauk, and it gets more difficult and more dangerous as the boat gets bigger.
russellbailey	posted 10-26-2014 12:12 PM ET (US) I pulled my Outrage 25 off its keel roller trailer yesterday for the first time in about 3 hours solo. Used 3 cut-up 6x6 stacked for the keel, two Brownell MB4 boat stands on the rear sides, and some concrete blocks for the front sides. I used a come-a-long to get the boat enough off the trailer to stay put on the rear blocks and slowly pulled the trailer forward, only using a bottle jack for the most forward spot as I pulled the final 4' of trailer out. The boat stands really helped make it easy to do. I suspect I could do it in an hour or so now. I'll post a link to some pictures later.
Jefecinco	posted 10-27-2014 10:00 AM ET (US) When using purpose made boat stands it is recommended to chain pairs together to prevent them from slipping out from under the hull. This method is particularly recommended when using the stands under "V" hulls. Even when the keel blocking is completed securing the stand pairs together will help prevent slipping in high winds or when the boat is bumped. Butch
russellbailey	posted 10-27-2014 11:19 AM ET (US) Here are the shots plus more detail. http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/russellbailey3/library/ 2014-10%20Whaler%20on%20Blocks 1. I kept the trailer hooked to the car which let me have the boat weight get way back on the trailer and avoid bottle jacking between the numerous (5 I think) cross members. 2. My Suburban has rear air bags (Hellwig) instead of coils. I can adjust the rear ride height by about 6" (I don't use it for height normally - I use it to better handle the 700 lb tongue weight of the loaded trailer). The height variation allowed me to do a variant of the trailer tongue jack approach but with the trailer hooked to the car. 3. I got the boat to slide back an initial 2 feet by slackening the strap, backing up and hitting the brakes. I then put the stern keel blocking (cut up 6x6) and the MB-4 stands in place and pumped the Suburban air bags up to raise the trailer tongue about 6". 4. I tried pulling slowly forward at that point, but the boat slid on the blocking. So, I connected a come-a-long between the bow eye and the trailer, and used it to slide the boat back a couple of inches at a time, then pull the trailer forward a couple of inches, then repeat. After about 6" there was enough weight on the stern keel blocking that the boat no longer slid as I slowly pulled the trailer forward. 5. I stopped when I got about 10' suspended to add more keel blocking (Pictures 1-5 are at this point) 6. I pulled the trailer about 8 more feet forward, with the boat just rolling along the keel rollers. I stopped at this point and decided a 3rd keel support would be appropriate. I temporarily used a bottle jack to slightly lift the bow so that I could turn all the keel rollers by hand, and then pulled the trailer the rest of the way out. (Pictures 6-7). At this point the boat had two main points of support (keel blocking) and two big stablizers (the boat stands). Before I pulled the trailer out I checked the boat for stability. I needed another cut up 6x6 to make the third keel blocking, and I decided to get some concrete blocks as a redundancy to stabilize the boat side to side. I had to go to the store to get those. Just due to the rear boatstands, the boat was very stable. With the 1000 lbs of Optimax's hanging off the boat, I don't really think the forward side supports are really necessary, but I added them as a precaution. The rest of the pictures is how I left it. I followed the Brownell guidance in planning the boat supports, with the exception of using the bow side supports. Jefecinco, Brownell does not recommend a chain except on the sailboat stands - as you can see in these pictures there is no way those stands can slide out since they are under the chine. I really liked the stands and may see if I can use the MB-3 model in place of the bow blocks. I don't want the sailboat stands due to storage. You can see the Airmar SS264 transducer in one of the shots. The surface appears rippled but that is just the reflection of the gravel. The boat is off the trailer to replace the leaf spring axles on my Continental 10k trailer with Dexter Torflex axles. I talked with Jeff at SlideOn about potentially getting a new trailer to try to get a smoother ride, and he encourage me to just try new axles and helped me size them and shipped them to me. It will be a few weeks before I get that done.
Jefecinco	posted 10-27-2014 05:40 PM ET (US) Russel, I agree that it's unlikely your stands will slip out due to the chines and/or strakes. My comment wasn't intended for you nor motivated by your post. Well, maybe seeing the brand name "Brownell" clicked something in my head. But my comment was simply meant as a general reminder to anyone following the thread. When I had a SeaRay Sundancer 240 it was wet slipped for several years before I bought a trailer. I bought a set of four Brownell stands to secure the boat for winter storage in the marina. It would be lifted by a trael-lift and deposited on the stands and keel blocking. Those old circa 1978 stands had a loop welded on the stands specifically for securing the pairs together. I don't know why Bownell would say the stands should not be secured together given. the number of slack bilged and deep "V" hulls without running strakes. Seems to me no harm would be done. Butch