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Author Topic:   Moving to Great Lakes Boating

padrefigure posted 11-07-2014 10:59 AM ET (US)
My wife and I will be relocating to Wisconsin in 2015 and are want to understand the boating local boating situation. We currently keep our Outrage 22 on a lift on the Texas coast with access to the Intercoastal Waterway, extensive bay systems and the Gulf beyond. We put about 350 hours per year on this boat. We also have an 18 foot Outrage that we trailer to local lakes in the Austin area when we are not at the coast. And finally, you may have seen from other posts, I have been refitting (restoring would be too bold a statement) a 13 foot Sport. The question is which boat to bring with us to Wisconsin. As far as activities go, we spend have a lot of fishing adventures wrapped around stops at the beach and other exploratory ventures. Getting the boat thing figured out drives several other decisions like condo v. house for living, Truck v. SUV for transportation, etc. I appreciate your input.
boatdryver posted 11-07-2014 11:12 AM ET (US)
Keep the Outrage 22, sell the Outrage 18 and the 13 and buy two snow machines. ;-)
JimL
K Albus posted 11-07-2014 01:26 PM ET (US)
If you plan to spend a lot of time boating on the Great Lakes, the Outrage 22 is going to be your best bet.
Most of the friends that I have made on this website do a lot of boating on the Great Lakes. Most of them started with smaller Whalers - 15s and 17s. Most of them traded up from there to 18s and 20s. And most them now own 22s and 23s.
You will get chances to comfortably use an 18-footer on the Great Lakes, but you'll get many more chances with a 22. You're also gonna want some canvas to protect you from the cold.
Hoosier posted 11-07-2014 01:35 PM ET (US)
Keep the 18 and the 22. You'll want the 22 for the big lakes but the 18 is easier to trailer and Wisconsin/Minnesota/Michigan have loads of places you'll want to be able to trailer to easily. I have a 23 Walkaround for cruising and an Outrage V20 for fishing.
Jeff posted 11-07-2014 01:44 PM ET (US)
The 22 Outrage is going to the be the best boat if it are planning to do a lot of Great Lakes boating. The Great Lakes can give you conditions unlike anything you would experience of the open ocean. From winds to waves they can beat you up, and it can happen in a hurry. I have had 3-4' go to 6-8'+ in 60 - 90 minutes with the shifting of the winds. Also, the lakes have waves tend to stack here where you can have waves heights that are close to 1/2 that of their amplitude. In essence, 6-8 waves that are 12 - 18 crest to crest. And at times they can even get closer to equal..
You could get away with an 18, but the 22 is going to give you a much more comfortable ride and allow you a greater range of conditions to go out in.
In the summer the you can Lake Michigan range from 5-8' waves:
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=3976919493694&l=5135111700063366636
and then lay back down to this in 24 hours or less (or vice versa).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrfooU6zeXU& list=UUtGyZVvaTqETFzYYhjPA4cA
http://youtu.be/zAR1zXFb2t0?list=UUtGyZVvaTqETFzYYhjPA4cA
Here is a recent wave forecast for Lake Michigan from last week. Sure it is later in the season but, it can give you an idea of what is possible on Lake Michigan.
https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/ 10704036_861482043915960_5790668877908138490_n. jpg?oh=900811847d64d631dbb0c8c9b11fe5d0&oe=54ED88DC
Plotman posted 11-07-2014 03:32 PM ET (US)
First Question, where in Wisconsin?
As Jeff said, the 22 will be best if you are planning on spending a lot of time on Lake Michigan or Superior, or even Winnebago or the Mississipi. But it is overkill for most inland lakes.
It will be a pretty good Salmon boat for Michigan.
The 18 will be a better all around boat - small enough to easily launch on inland lakes, but big enough for forays into the great lakes.
The quip about selling one of the boats and buying a couple of snow machines isn't bad advice either, depending on where you will live. The practical boating season is about 3 months.
padrefigure posted 11-07-2014 04:52 PM ET (US)
Thanks for all of the responses. We will live in the Racine area. We will keep one of the bigger whalers on the lift in Texas and bring the other to Wisconsin. Hopefully, we will be able to visit the Texas Whaler during the Winter months. We have friends and family that will be using the Texas boat as well.
David Pendleton posted 11-07-2014 08:56 PM ET (US)
And, but "snowmachine" they mean snowmobile, not snowblower. Although you'll likely need one of those too.
Dave Sutton posted 11-07-2014 08:58 PM ET (US)
When you get into town, ping me and let's get together. My significant other and I run a charter dive boat out of Milwaukee summers, and are Whaler enthusiasts as well. I keep an airplane at the Racine airport BTW. We can show you the ropes for lake boating. Are you dead set on Racine? A few miles furtner north will give you far better demographics. Racine is not known as one of the better places to live. Two towns north is South Milwaukee, which is great. Join the South Shore yacht Club there (I'll sponsor you) and enjoy a great scene.
You'll want a good solid boat on the lakes. My 25 foot Frontier isn't "big enough" on many days.

Dave
.
jimh posted 11-07-2014 09:27 PM ET (US)
Padres writes:

quote:
We put about 350 hours per year on this boat.
I am not sure if there are a total of 350 hours of decent boating per summer in the Great Lakes. Boating season is not year-round up here. Last summer we had such cool weather I only got the boat underway for 38-hours all summer.
padrefigure posted 11-07-2014 11:39 PM ET (US)
Jimh--I read that in one of your earlier posts and it scares me. I know coastal and inland boating are different, but 38 hours is about three weekends. Dave--we will reach out to you once we get situated. The deal I made with my wife is Thanksgiving and Christmas in Texas, then we'll figure out Wisconsin. I am commuting for the time being.
jimh posted 11-08-2014 08:06 AM ET (US)
The Great Lakes can make up for the short boating season by providing the cleanest, clearest fresh water on the planet and some of the nicest boating environments to be found.
Jefecinco posted 11-08-2014 09:45 AM ET (US)
Padrefigure--in your situation my solution would be to change plans and remain on the Texas Coast. Simplistic, I know. :=)
When I was serving in Iran my landlord invited me out for a night of "cultural education" at Teheran's night clubs. At about 3:00 a.m., after a thorough education, I expressed a desire to get a couple of hours of sleep so I could get to work in a reasonable condition that morning. His response was that in Iran it was customary that "when your work interferes with your pleasure give up your work". I believe he was serious as he belonged to a social class that worked only because they wanted rather than needed to work.
Enjoy the Great Lakes boating. From all I've read on CW you'll have a marvelous time.
Butch
Plotman posted 11-08-2014 11:55 AM ET (US)
In Racine, I'd probably bring the OUTRAGE 18. The salmon fishing on that area of Lake Michigan can be really good, and the OUTRAGE 18 will be enough boat for that.
The OUTRAGE 18 is also small enough that you can use it to explore many of the nearby inland lakes.
I grew up in Milwaukee, 30 miles north. The boating on Lake Michigan around there is not terribly exciting beyond just being on the water. Coastline extends basically north and south without much going on to explore.
Good news is that you are a three-hour-drive from Door County, and only six hours from the Apostles.
Brianswhaler posted 11-08-2014 05:34 PM ET (US)
You are going to LOVE the Great Lakes. Buy good foul weather gear. Stay abreast of weather changes. And go for it. Lake Michigan can be a mill pond and turn ugly in an hour. I fish for salmon in a Montauk in Lake Michigan near Charlevoix and for perch and walleye in Lake Charlevoix, right to the end of October. I'm usually in just after ice out--the best fishing. My season is long. As the Norwegians say: "There's no bad weather only bad clothing." Welcome to the North.
Buckda posted 11-09-2014 12:03 PM ET (US)
I agree that your 18 is the most versatile boat for your stated uses.
On that side of the lake, you won't have the really snotty conditions that the Michigan side gets (well, you won't have them as often...).
My father salmon fishes a 22' (Guardian) Outrage offshore St. Joseph, MI and due to the lack of a full-length splashwell dam, they get their feet wet often when trolling in following seas. That is with a single carbureted 2-stroke 250 hp engine. The 18' Outrage has a full width splashwell dam and will keep your feet dry, even if it's a little more bumpy on the ride out and back. Dry and cold beats wet and cold any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Additionally, as stated above, the 18 can be launched and retrieved easily for local lake and river boating and the trailer/rig won't take up too much extra space in those smaller local launch ramp spaces...where as the additional trailer length for a 22' rig might make navigation around those access sites a bit more of a challenge, to say nothing of the short courtesy docks at the ramps.
Finally, enjoy. Wisconsin has great freshwater resources and a strong outdoor culture. Living near Racine, you'll definitely want to check out the Milwaukee and Chicago waterfronts in the summer, as well as Lake Geneva and Door County. If you like Door County and have extra time, you should really consider towing up to the Apostle Islands on Lake Superior and also the Escanaba/Gladstone Michigan area, and even Lake Gogebic in Michigan's far Western UP.
Teak Oil posted 11-09-2014 07:15 PM ET (US)
Man, you guys act like trailering a 22 Outrage is like hauling a 44' Viking. Unless you are pulling it with a Pinto, it's no big deal at all.
The 18 and 22 have almost the same draft, so they can go in the same lakes. There is not a lake in the world that will accommodate the 18, but not the 22.
Do what you want, but you will wish you had that 22 when you are on Lake Michigan and the wind changes around to come from the north...
And start looking for a set of Mills canvas for whichever Whaler you bring north (bring the 22).
jimh posted 11-10-2014 08:29 AM ET (US)
The only distinct advantage I can see for the OUTRAGE 18 over the OUTRAGE 22 in boating on the Great Lakes might be easier launching and loading at the launch ramp for one person, but most launch ramps on the Great Lakes have a courtesy dock right at the ramp. It is not hard for one person to launch or load a trailerable boat. Some ramps might have short docks or have shallow ramps, and the OUTRAGE 18 might be easier to handle on those ramps.
I don't know about Wisconsin, but in Michigan there are usually very good launch ramps for the Great Lakes provided by the State. There are also local municipal ramps that are available to the public. There are only a few local municipal ramps that are not shared with non-residents of the community.
To give you an idea of the quality of launch ramps available (in Michigan), I watched a guy load a 55-foot Sea Ray onto a trailer at a launch ramp on Lake Charlevoix. If the ramp can handle a 55-footer, it will not be pushed to the limit with a 22-footer.
PeteB88 posted 11-10-2014 12:41 PM ET (US)
[Started new topic. The new topic has been moved to its own thread. This thread is discussing Great Lakes boating from the perspective of a Texan with an OUTRAGE 18, OUTRAGE 22, and SPORT 13.--jimh]
Dave Sutton posted 11-11-2014 11:05 AM ET (US)
The ramps in the lakes are excellent by comparison to anyplace else I've ever been.
We launch MOLLY V (a 27 foot Marinette) about 100 times a year (really) without incident. Jitka (the 125 pound blonde) does about 75 of these solo. If you can't launch a 22-foot Outrage alone here, you need to pick another hobby.
Noting further that I solo launch my 25-foot Frontier without a second thought at any DNR ramp I find.

Here's MOLLY V
www.shipwreckexplorers.com
Enjoy your 22 in the lakes. I'd keep it and the 13 as a pairing.

Dave
.
PeteB88 posted 11-11-2014 01:01 PM ET (US)
No problem launching at all, I think it's a bigger [chore] to launch and retrieve the 13 than the Outrage 17 and bigger boats I have played around with.

Buckda posted 11-15-2014 12:31 PM ET (US)
Re: Ramps - I'm not speaking of access to the Great Lakes....I'm speaking of access to inland lakes. The ramps are fine, the courtesy docks are too short, and parking can be a challenge. It is a common complaint. While the same lake can accommodate an 18 or 22' boat easily, the RAMP FACILITY may not. I recently had a chance to launch a 22' Revenge at a local, popular lake and it was much more of a hassle than it would have been with an 18' hull.
Having owned an 18 and a 25, and had a bit of time on a 22, I can say that for maximum flexibility in your boating up here, the 18 is it.
If you want to spend all of your time on Lake Michigan, then the 22 is the better choice, however, your feet might get wet when slow trolling in a heavy following sea. (Before you chip in Teak, realize that your 22 has a different splashwell config than most all other 22's. They changed the config very late in the overall production run of this model.)
It also enables you to have a mid-size SUV instead of a truck for towing and you can probably get away with a condo if they allow trailer parking, whereas a 22' rig won't fit in most parking spaces (a standard 18' rig will just fit in larger spaces).
Finally, the 18' will be marginally less expensive to run than the 22.
If none of the above is a real obstacle to you, then by all means, bring your favorite boat - you will not be short of water to use whatever you bring in...except for the months of December - early March, when the water gets all hard and makes boating challenging.
wannabe posted 11-16-2014 01:16 PM ET (US)
I believe I read that 50-60 hrs. is considered a pretty good boating season up here in the north. It sounds like the best of both worlds between Texas and Wisconsin.
I have never felt unsafe in my Outrage 18 out in Lake Erie, but you can get a little wet.

Drew
george nagy posted 11-17-2014 07:50 AM ET (US)
I would think that the type of engine and its condition may also be of considerable evaluation in determining which boat you bring up there. I can't elaborate without knowing more I formation about each setup.
I would tend to think the 18' would be good up north and the 13 and 22 in the gulf area if the engines were all but equal.
padrefigure posted 11-17-2014 03:17 PM ET (US)
The 22 has "new" power--2010 Etec 200. I put new in quotes because I repowered in July 2009, but I guess it is not really new now. The 18 has the original 1987 150 Evinrude on it. It has been dependable, but can be cold natured (hard to start after sitting a few weeks) and can be thirsty. Maybe there is an Etec outlet store in Sturdevant?
george nagy posted 11-18-2014 06:17 AM ET (US)
Now there is a big contrast in the engines. There are a few ways of looking at them in comparison to help you to determine which one to take.
I will weigh in on a few:
The e tec is way more fuel efficient than the old motor so in terms of cost per hour which one will get used more.
The e tec will be more convenient starting and cleaner running in the clear fresh water up north.
I'm sure there are many other ways to look at it, what suits your prioties?
jimh posted 11-18-2014 12:20 PM ET (US)
A few weeks ago in early November we were up in Northport, our favorite boating destination in Michigan, and the temperature was about 45-degrees. There was no wind, and I was thinking it would have been a great day for a late season boat ride.
Today the wind up there is from the NW at 37-MPH and is gusting to 46-MPH. This is called a Gale. NOAA has issued a Gale warning and Gale watch. And I bet the waves on Lake Michigan are corresponding matched, having rolled across from Wisconsin and the U.P. with about a 60-mile fetch. The forecast calls for significant wave heights of 10 to 13 feet. You cannot really plan on much boating on the Great Lakes in November.
boatdryver posted 11-19-2014 10:02 AM ET (US)
jimh says
"You cannot really plan on much boating on the Great Lakes in November."
So true.
This storm reminds us of Gordon Lightfoot's song about the Edmund Fitzgerald :
"and the gales of November keep coming"
JimL
jimh posted 11-19-2014 10:42 AM ET (US)
I think the lyric from Gordon Lightfoot's song is "...when the Gales of November come early." It refers to early November storms, which tend to be stronger because the difference in the air temperature and water temperature tends to be the largest in the first part of November. The greater the difference (with the water warmer than the air) the more energy available to feed a storm.
Many years ago I attended a lecture by a NOAA meteorologist who had studied the air and water temperatures for Lake Superior. His data showed that the peak difference in air-water temperature occurred around November 9, 10, and 11. Also, he noted that a very high percentage of the ships sunk (by tonnage) occurred in that same three day period.
The Fitz sank on November 10, 1975.
The Armistice Day Storm of 1940 occurred on November 11 and sunk three freighters.
The Great Lake Storm of 1913 occurred on November 7 through 10, and sunk 12 ships.
The last two weeks of November are also not very kind. The CARL D. BRADLEY sank on November 18, 1958. The DANIEL J. MORELL sank on November 29, 1966.
EJO posted 11-19-2014 11:54 AM ET (US)
Yea and the wave forecast for lower Eastern Shore of Lake Michigan is 12-20 ft. today and lots of snow. You don't pleasure boat in November on Lake Michigan. But the season is longer than the 3 months mentioned if you are a real boater. May thru September is what I consider "normal" and not the Memorial to Labor day season.
I used to get twice more hours in with the cabin boats but even now with the little one get 120-150 hrs a season.
Use the 18' and trailer it anywhere you want, especially Door Cnty on either the Lake or the Bay side.
jimh posted 11-20-2014 01:35 AM ET (US)
See some November boating on the Great Lakes at
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage27.html
K Albus posted 11-20-2014 09:47 AM ET (US)
And more here: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001019.html
PeteB88 posted 11-22-2014 06:28 PM ET (US)
What's strange to me is immediately after Labor Day, owners start pulling boats out, shrink wrapping, winterizing, rush to fill inside storage. Strange. I was out two weeks ago and keep the 13 ready all year.
PeteB88 posted 11-22-2014 06:30 PM ET (US)
No, 10 days ago on the 12th. Blizzard hit next day. I just tuck up behind that big console - Whaler engineer told me they put that big console in Outrage 17s to block the wind, seriously when we were down for the St John's Rendezvous first weekend in October. It does do that for sure.
saumon posted 11-23-2014 05:43 AM ET (US)
Mid to late November too here in Montreal on the St. Lawrence but, being narrower and with the constant current, wind have less chance to pick up. Must still choose your days and bring some sand for the ramp...Aren't those tall console awesome!
http://www.myfishingpictures.com/data/500/November1.jpg
http://www.myfishingpictures.com/data/500/November2.jpg
gnr posted 11-24-2014 11:57 AM ET (US)
Had my best fishing day of 2014 yesterday on Lake Champlain.
Only month out of the last twelve I haven't used my boat was February.
Spuds posted 11-25-2014 12:57 PM ET (US)
Sell me your 22 Outrage and keep her in Texas. ; )

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Author	Topic: Moving to Great Lakes Boating
padrefigure	posted 11-07-2014 10:59 AM ET (US) My wife and I will be relocating to Wisconsin in 2015 and are want to understand the boating local boating situation. We currently keep our Outrage 22 on a lift on the Texas coast with access to the Intercoastal Waterway, extensive bay systems and the Gulf beyond. We put about 350 hours per year on this boat. We also have an 18 foot Outrage that we trailer to local lakes in the Austin area when we are not at the coast. And finally, you may have seen from other posts, I have been refitting (restoring would be too bold a statement) a 13 foot Sport. The question is which boat to bring with us to Wisconsin. As far as activities go, we spend have a lot of fishing adventures wrapped around stops at the beach and other exploratory ventures. Getting the boat thing figured out drives several other decisions like condo v. house for living, Truck v. SUV for transportation, etc. I appreciate your input.
boatdryver	posted 11-07-2014 11:12 AM ET (US) Keep the Outrage 22, sell the Outrage 18 and the 13 and buy two snow machines. ;-) JimL
K Albus	posted 11-07-2014 01:26 PM ET (US) If you plan to spend a lot of time boating on the Great Lakes, the Outrage 22 is going to be your best bet. Most of the friends that I have made on this website do a lot of boating on the Great Lakes. Most of them started with smaller Whalers - 15s and 17s. Most of them traded up from there to 18s and 20s. And most them now own 22s and 23s. You will get chances to comfortably use an 18-footer on the Great Lakes, but you'll get many more chances with a 22. You're also gonna want some canvas to protect you from the cold.
Hoosier	posted 11-07-2014 01:35 PM ET (US) Keep the 18 and the 22. You'll want the 22 for the big lakes but the 18 is easier to trailer and Wisconsin/Minnesota/Michigan have loads of places you'll want to be able to trailer to easily. I have a 23 Walkaround for cruising and an Outrage V20 for fishing.
Jeff	posted 11-07-2014 01:44 PM ET (US) The 22 Outrage is going to the be the best boat if it are planning to do a lot of Great Lakes boating. The Great Lakes can give you conditions unlike anything you would experience of the open ocean. From winds to waves they can beat you up, and it can happen in a hurry. I have had 3-4' go to 6-8'+ in 60 - 90 minutes with the shifting of the winds. Also, the lakes have waves tend to stack here where you can have waves heights that are close to 1/2 that of their amplitude. In essence, 6-8 waves that are 12 - 18 crest to crest. And at times they can even get closer to equal.. You could get away with an 18, but the 22 is going to give you a much more comfortable ride and allow you a greater range of conditions to go out in. In the summer the you can Lake Michigan range from 5-8' waves: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=3976919493694&l=5135111700063366636 and then lay back down to this in 24 hours or less (or vice versa). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrfooU6zeXU& list=UUtGyZVvaTqETFzYYhjPA4cA http://youtu.be/zAR1zXFb2t0?list=UUtGyZVvaTqETFzYYhjPA4cA Here is a recent wave forecast for Lake Michigan from last week. Sure it is later in the season but, it can give you an idea of what is possible on Lake Michigan. https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/ 10704036_861482043915960_5790668877908138490_n. jpg?oh=900811847d64d631dbb0c8c9b11fe5d0&oe=54ED88DC
Plotman	posted 11-07-2014 03:32 PM ET (US) First Question, where in Wisconsin? As Jeff said, the 22 will be best if you are planning on spending a lot of time on Lake Michigan or Superior, or even Winnebago or the Mississipi. But it is overkill for most inland lakes. It will be a pretty good Salmon boat for Michigan. The 18 will be a better all around boat - small enough to easily launch on inland lakes, but big enough for forays into the great lakes. The quip about selling one of the boats and buying a couple of snow machines isn't bad advice either, depending on where you will live. The practical boating season is about 3 months.
padrefigure	posted 11-07-2014 04:52 PM ET (US) Thanks for all of the responses. We will live in the Racine area. We will keep one of the bigger whalers on the lift in Texas and bring the other to Wisconsin. Hopefully, we will be able to visit the Texas Whaler during the Winter months. We have friends and family that will be using the Texas boat as well.
David Pendleton	posted 11-07-2014 08:56 PM ET (US) And, but "snowmachine" they mean snowmobile, not snowblower. Although you'll likely need one of those too.
Dave Sutton	posted 11-07-2014 08:58 PM ET (US) When you get into town, ping me and let's get together. My significant other and I run a charter dive boat out of Milwaukee summers, and are Whaler enthusiasts as well. I keep an airplane at the Racine airport BTW. We can show you the ropes for lake boating. Are you dead set on Racine? A few miles furtner north will give you far better demographics. Racine is not known as one of the better places to live. Two towns north is South Milwaukee, which is great. Join the South Shore yacht Club there (I'll sponsor you) and enjoy a great scene. You'll want a good solid boat on the lakes. My 25 foot Frontier isn't "big enough" on many days. Dave .
jimh	posted 11-07-2014 09:27 PM ET (US) Padres writes: quote: We put about 350 hours per year on this boat. I am not sure if there are a total of 350 hours of decent boating per summer in the Great Lakes. Boating season is not year-round up here. Last summer we had such cool weather I only got the boat underway for 38-hours all summer.
padrefigure	posted 11-07-2014 11:39 PM ET (US) Jimh--I read that in one of your earlier posts and it scares me. I know coastal and inland boating are different, but 38 hours is about three weekends. Dave--we will reach out to you once we get situated. The deal I made with my wife is Thanksgiving and Christmas in Texas, then we'll figure out Wisconsin. I am commuting for the time being.
jimh	posted 11-08-2014 08:06 AM ET (US) The Great Lakes can make up for the short boating season by providing the cleanest, clearest fresh water on the planet and some of the nicest boating environments to be found.
Jefecinco	posted 11-08-2014 09:45 AM ET (US) Padrefigure--in your situation my solution would be to change plans and remain on the Texas Coast. Simplistic, I know. :=) When I was serving in Iran my landlord invited me out for a night of "cultural education" at Teheran's night clubs. At about 3:00 a.m., after a thorough education, I expressed a desire to get a couple of hours of sleep so I could get to work in a reasonable condition that morning. His response was that in Iran it was customary that "when your work interferes with your pleasure give up your work". I believe he was serious as he belonged to a social class that worked only because they wanted rather than needed to work. Enjoy the Great Lakes boating. From all I've read on CW you'll have a marvelous time. Butch
Plotman	posted 11-08-2014 11:55 AM ET (US) In Racine, I'd probably bring the OUTRAGE 18. The salmon fishing on that area of Lake Michigan can be really good, and the OUTRAGE 18 will be enough boat for that. The OUTRAGE 18 is also small enough that you can use it to explore many of the nearby inland lakes. I grew up in Milwaukee, 30 miles north. The boating on Lake Michigan around there is not terribly exciting beyond just being on the water. Coastline extends basically north and south without much going on to explore. Good news is that you are a three-hour-drive from Door County, and only six hours from the Apostles.
Brianswhaler	posted 11-08-2014 05:34 PM ET (US) You are going to LOVE the Great Lakes. Buy good foul weather gear. Stay abreast of weather changes. And go for it. Lake Michigan can be a mill pond and turn ugly in an hour. I fish for salmon in a Montauk in Lake Michigan near Charlevoix and for perch and walleye in Lake Charlevoix, right to the end of October. I'm usually in just after ice out--the best fishing. My season is long. As the Norwegians say: "There's no bad weather only bad clothing." Welcome to the North.
Buckda	posted 11-09-2014 12:03 PM ET (US) I agree that your 18 is the most versatile boat for your stated uses. On that side of the lake, you won't have the really snotty conditions that the Michigan side gets (well, you won't have them as often...). My father salmon fishes a 22' (Guardian) Outrage offshore St. Joseph, MI and due to the lack of a full-length splashwell dam, they get their feet wet often when trolling in following seas. That is with a single carbureted 2-stroke 250 hp engine. The 18' Outrage has a full width splashwell dam and will keep your feet dry, even if it's a little more bumpy on the ride out and back. Dry and cold beats wet and cold any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Additionally, as stated above, the 18 can be launched and retrieved easily for local lake and river boating and the trailer/rig won't take up too much extra space in those smaller local launch ramp spaces...where as the additional trailer length for a 22' rig might make navigation around those access sites a bit more of a challenge, to say nothing of the short courtesy docks at the ramps. Finally, enjoy. Wisconsin has great freshwater resources and a strong outdoor culture. Living near Racine, you'll definitely want to check out the Milwaukee and Chicago waterfronts in the summer, as well as Lake Geneva and Door County. If you like Door County and have extra time, you should really consider towing up to the Apostle Islands on Lake Superior and also the Escanaba/Gladstone Michigan area, and even Lake Gogebic in Michigan's far Western UP.
Teak Oil	posted 11-09-2014 07:15 PM ET (US) Man, you guys act like trailering a 22 Outrage is like hauling a 44' Viking. Unless you are pulling it with a Pinto, it's no big deal at all. The 18 and 22 have almost the same draft, so they can go in the same lakes. There is not a lake in the world that will accommodate the 18, but not the 22. Do what you want, but you will wish you had that 22 when you are on Lake Michigan and the wind changes around to come from the north... And start looking for a set of Mills canvas for whichever Whaler you bring north (bring the 22).
jimh	posted 11-10-2014 08:29 AM ET (US) The only distinct advantage I can see for the OUTRAGE 18 over the OUTRAGE 22 in boating on the Great Lakes might be easier launching and loading at the launch ramp for one person, but most launch ramps on the Great Lakes have a courtesy dock right at the ramp. It is not hard for one person to launch or load a trailerable boat. Some ramps might have short docks or have shallow ramps, and the OUTRAGE 18 might be easier to handle on those ramps. I don't know about Wisconsin, but in Michigan there are usually very good launch ramps for the Great Lakes provided by the State. There are also local municipal ramps that are available to the public. There are only a few local municipal ramps that are not shared with non-residents of the community. To give you an idea of the quality of launch ramps available (in Michigan), I watched a guy load a 55-foot Sea Ray onto a trailer at a launch ramp on Lake Charlevoix. If the ramp can handle a 55-footer, it will not be pushed to the limit with a 22-footer.
PeteB88	posted 11-10-2014 12:41 PM ET (US) [Started new topic. The new topic has been moved to its own thread. This thread is discussing Great Lakes boating from the perspective of a Texan with an OUTRAGE 18, OUTRAGE 22, and SPORT 13.--jimh]
Dave Sutton	posted 11-11-2014 11:05 AM ET (US) The ramps in the lakes are excellent by comparison to anyplace else I've ever been. We launch MOLLY V (a 27 foot Marinette) about 100 times a year (really) without incident. Jitka (the 125 pound blonde) does about 75 of these solo. If you can't launch a 22-foot Outrage alone here, you need to pick another hobby. Noting further that I solo launch my 25-foot Frontier without a second thought at any DNR ramp I find. Here's MOLLY V www.shipwreckexplorers.com Enjoy your 22 in the lakes. I'd keep it and the 13 as a pairing. Dave .
PeteB88	posted 11-11-2014 01:01 PM ET (US) No problem launching at all, I think it's a bigger [chore] to launch and retrieve the 13 than the Outrage 17 and bigger boats I have played around with.
Buckda	posted 11-15-2014 12:31 PM ET (US) Re: Ramps - I'm not speaking of access to the Great Lakes....I'm speaking of access to inland lakes. The ramps are fine, the courtesy docks are too short, and parking can be a challenge. It is a common complaint. While the same lake can accommodate an 18 or 22' boat easily, the RAMP FACILITY may not. I recently had a chance to launch a 22' Revenge at a local, popular lake and it was much more of a hassle than it would have been with an 18' hull. Having owned an 18 and a 25, and had a bit of time on a 22, I can say that for maximum flexibility in your boating up here, the 18 is it. If you want to spend all of your time on Lake Michigan, then the 22 is the better choice, however, your feet might get wet when slow trolling in a heavy following sea. (Before you chip in Teak, realize that your 22 has a different splashwell config than most all other 22's. They changed the config very late in the overall production run of this model.) It also enables you to have a mid-size SUV instead of a truck for towing and you can probably get away with a condo if they allow trailer parking, whereas a 22' rig won't fit in most parking spaces (a standard 18' rig will just fit in larger spaces). Finally, the 18' will be marginally less expensive to run than the 22. If none of the above is a real obstacle to you, then by all means, bring your favorite boat - you will not be short of water to use whatever you bring in...except for the months of December - early March, when the water gets all hard and makes boating challenging.
wannabe	posted 11-16-2014 01:16 PM ET (US) I believe I read that 50-60 hrs. is considered a pretty good boating season up here in the north. It sounds like the best of both worlds between Texas and Wisconsin. I have never felt unsafe in my Outrage 18 out in Lake Erie, but you can get a little wet. Drew
george nagy	posted 11-17-2014 07:50 AM ET (US) I would think that the type of engine and its condition may also be of considerable evaluation in determining which boat you bring up there. I can't elaborate without knowing more I formation about each setup. I would tend to think the 18' would be good up north and the 13 and 22 in the gulf area if the engines were all but equal.
padrefigure	posted 11-17-2014 03:17 PM ET (US) The 22 has "new" power--2010 Etec 200. I put new in quotes because I repowered in July 2009, but I guess it is not really new now. The 18 has the original 1987 150 Evinrude on it. It has been dependable, but can be cold natured (hard to start after sitting a few weeks) and can be thirsty. Maybe there is an Etec outlet store in Sturdevant?
george nagy	posted 11-18-2014 06:17 AM ET (US) Now there is a big contrast in the engines. There are a few ways of looking at them in comparison to help you to determine which one to take. I will weigh in on a few: The e tec is way more fuel efficient than the old motor so in terms of cost per hour which one will get used more. The e tec will be more convenient starting and cleaner running in the clear fresh water up north. I'm sure there are many other ways to look at it, what suits your prioties?
jimh	posted 11-18-2014 12:20 PM ET (US) A few weeks ago in early November we were up in Northport, our favorite boating destination in Michigan, and the temperature was about 45-degrees. There was no wind, and I was thinking it would have been a great day for a late season boat ride. Today the wind up there is from the NW at 37-MPH and is gusting to 46-MPH. This is called a Gale. NOAA has issued a Gale warning and Gale watch. And I bet the waves on Lake Michigan are corresponding matched, having rolled across from Wisconsin and the U.P. with about a 60-mile fetch. The forecast calls for significant wave heights of 10 to 13 feet. You cannot really plan on much boating on the Great Lakes in November.
boatdryver	posted 11-19-2014 10:02 AM ET (US) jimh says "You cannot really plan on much boating on the Great Lakes in November." So true. This storm reminds us of Gordon Lightfoot's song about the Edmund Fitzgerald : "and the gales of November keep coming" JimL
jimh	posted 11-19-2014 10:42 AM ET (US) I think the lyric from Gordon Lightfoot's song is "...when the Gales of November come early." It refers to early November storms, which tend to be stronger because the difference in the air temperature and water temperature tends to be the largest in the first part of November. The greater the difference (with the water warmer than the air) the more energy available to feed a storm. Many years ago I attended a lecture by a NOAA meteorologist who had studied the air and water temperatures for Lake Superior. His data showed that the peak difference in air-water temperature occurred around November 9, 10, and 11. Also, he noted that a very high percentage of the ships sunk (by tonnage) occurred in that same three day period. The Fitz sank on November 10, 1975. The Armistice Day Storm of 1940 occurred on November 11 and sunk three freighters. The Great Lake Storm of 1913 occurred on November 7 through 10, and sunk 12 ships. The last two weeks of November are also not very kind. The CARL D. BRADLEY sank on November 18, 1958. The DANIEL J. MORELL sank on November 29, 1966.
EJO	posted 11-19-2014 11:54 AM ET (US) Yea and the wave forecast for lower Eastern Shore of Lake Michigan is 12-20 ft. today and lots of snow. You don't pleasure boat in November on Lake Michigan. But the season is longer than the 3 months mentioned if you are a real boater. May thru September is what I consider "normal" and not the Memorial to Labor day season. I used to get twice more hours in with the cabin boats but even now with the little one get 120-150 hrs a season. Use the 18' and trailer it anywhere you want, especially Door Cnty on either the Lake or the Bay side.
jimh	posted 11-20-2014 01:35 AM ET (US) See some November boating on the Great Lakes at http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage27.html
K Albus	posted 11-20-2014 09:47 AM ET (US) And more here: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001019.html
PeteB88	posted 11-22-2014 06:28 PM ET (US) What's strange to me is immediately after Labor Day, owners start pulling boats out, shrink wrapping, winterizing, rush to fill inside storage. Strange. I was out two weeks ago and keep the 13 ready all year.
PeteB88	posted 11-22-2014 06:30 PM ET (US) No, 10 days ago on the 12th. Blizzard hit next day. I just tuck up behind that big console - Whaler engineer told me they put that big console in Outrage 17s to block the wind, seriously when we were down for the St John's Rendezvous first weekend in October. It does do that for sure.
saumon	posted 11-23-2014 05:43 AM ET (US) Mid to late November too here in Montreal on the St. Lawrence but, being narrower and with the constant current, wind have less chance to pick up. Must still choose your days and bring some sand for the ramp...Aren't those tall console awesome! http://www.myfishingpictures.com/data/500/November1.jpg http://www.myfishingpictures.com/data/500/November2.jpg
gnr	posted 11-24-2014 11:57 AM ET (US) Had my best fishing day of 2014 yesterday on Lake Champlain. Only month out of the last twelve I haven't used my boat was February.
Spuds	posted 11-25-2014 12:57 PM ET (US) Sell me your 22 Outrage and keep her in Texas. ; )