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Author Topic:   Appraisal request - quick replies needed!!

freeportd posted 07-13-2010 08:56 PM ET (US)
Hi all,
I'm new to this board and looking to get my first Whaler. I've always liked the 13 - back in the 70s my friend had one with a 25 Johnson and we used it for everything including waterskiing!
So, I'm in Maine and have located the following:
http://maine.craigslist.org/boa/1840533733.html
Tell me, is this a good deal? Would you folks jump on it as priced or is $2000 more reasonable? Owner isn't sure if the boat is waterlogged - he didn't think so. I need to move quickly as he's got someone coming tomorrow (Wednesday, 7/14) to look at it.
Thanks in advance for your quick replies! Chuck
modenacart posted 07-13-2010 09:02 PM ET (US)
I would not buy any boat I didn't put in and test drive.
freeportd posted 07-13-2010 09:27 PM ET (US)
Given that the engine can't be started, what options do I have for checking it out without putting it in the water?
I'll try to get a run on the water, but it sounds like the engine might not be ready (needs tank and hose at a minimum).
I'm heading up tomorrow morning to check this out.
Anyone else have thoughts?
modenacart posted 07-13-2010 09:29 PM ET (US)
I would still put it in the water and see how it drafts and get in it and see how it drafts. That will give you a general idea if it has a lot of water in the hull.
protek9543 posted 07-13-2010 09:39 PM ET (US)
Maybe you can throw him an offer minus the motor?
freeportd posted 07-13-2010 09:54 PM ET (US)
Just for a second let's assume that there is water in the hull. So, what value does that make this boat? The wood is in good shape - as is the hull. I can post pictures he sent me if that's helpful.
freeportd posted 07-13-2010 10:07 PM ET (US)
Ok, here's some pictures:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4076/4792215302_9a367a6b88_b.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4076/4792215334_c783d0d7e3_b.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4118/4792215312_9dc2dea233_b.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4122/4792215254_46dc1c6784_b.jpg
freeportd posted 07-13-2010 10:15 PM ET (US)
Here's some pictures of the engine. I can't determine the year, but it's got to be close to the original engine. Boat is a 1963 according to seller - but I can't find a Johnson 25 made that year. The graphics suggest 60s vintage, but I looked through the brochures posted in the general forum and couldn't find this engine!!
I have a Honda 30 that I picked up off Craigslist that I'd likely put on this boat. Short shaft - tiller, but I'll work to convert it.
Here's the pictures:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4135/4792242154_4d83aa8b60_b.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4078/4792242166_7e22c5d85c_b.jpg
shindog107 posted 07-14-2010 09:52 AM ET (US)
In Maine in the fall of 2005, I sold my solid 13 with a Johnson 28SPL and trailer for $3,000. No electronincs, rails or canvas.
Tohsgib posted 07-14-2010 10:45 AM ET (US)
For $1899 it is worth a look. Does not need to be run, good compression and spark is enough for me.
dobber posted 07-14-2010 11:54 AM ET (US)
Weigh the boat at a nearby gravel yard, this can tell you if its waterlogged. Go to the spec section to get the proper weight of a 13'. It looks to be on the money.
andygere posted 07-14-2010 03:53 PM ET (US)
The only thing that really concerns me is that giant post mounted in the middle of the deck. How is that thing attached to the boat and what was it used for?
Price wise, I think the seller is in the ballpark considering age and condition. A usable Whaler with trailer without major cosmetic flaws for under $2k seems like a reasonable deal these days.
Not So Salty posted 07-14-2010 06:09 PM ET (US)
The post scares me too.
Overall it appears to be in good shape, though I would take a close look at where the motor has been mounted. It appears as though there may have been some repair work done there.
Given the age of the engine, and the fact it does not run today, you have to assume you are only buying the hull. For roughly $1,900, I think you can do better if you keep watching.
This, however, is a midwest perspective. I refurbed a 13 before and sold it for about $4,000 to a guy who drove to Michigan from Connecticut to get it. He drove away with a huge smile on his face.
freeportd posted 07-14-2010 06:19 PM ET (US)
Hi all,
So I went and looked at the boat today. As advertised, it has typical surface cracks - but overall in sound condition. The post is a galvanized one - well fiberglassed in. Owner is unsure if it was bolted first or just fiberglassed. It has a 4 by 4 plate at the bottom that's holding it well.
If I were to buy it, I'd try to cut out the fiberglass around the base - and hope the post would come free. The owner thinks the prior owner used it for tying up the boat? My daughter has what I think is a better guess, might be the stepping point for the mast and sail!?!? Pipe's not horrible, but I'd want it gone.
The trailer is slightly tweaked at the front - not sure if it got pinned during a backup maneuver. Overall, it needs new tires but seems quite usable. I'd say it's a $200 - $250 value.
The motor is a project. While the thing turns and has compression, it's very doubtful it will start. The throttle is corroded and stuck - I'm sure that's fixable. There's no pull starter - just electric. To start by hand, a cord wrapped around the flywheel is required. Owner is unsure of year of motor. Model is J25TECRD and Serial is E5912703. Anyone know what year this is? At this point, I'd value the engine as a project - and thus give it $100 at best.
The engine and trailer are thus worth roughly $300-$350. If I get the package for $1800 - that means the boat is about $1500. That's the tough one for me. It's my first look at a boat - so I have no comparisons except sales on Craiglist and eBay.
My biggest concern is the waterlog factor. The boat was definitely moored for most of its life - and I'm not sure if it was covered. The wood looks ok, but that's because the current owner took it out, scraped it down and poly'd it. The steering wheel is very faded. The blue interior is quite faded as well as evidenced by a placard that was in place by the original owner, but removed by the current owner.
There's another boat about the same distance from me with a 99 Honda 25 for $3300. While a bunch more $$, it already has the engine I'd want. I've not seen it yet, but might in the next couple of days. At some point, I have no doubt I'll own a Whaler 13 - but I have ultimate patience and will get the right one. That might mean losing out on a good deal - but more will come along.
Everyone's input is very welcomed - and I thank those that have previously answered.
Best, Chuck
modenacart posted 07-14-2010 07:59 PM ET (US)
To me, if the hull is waterlogged you would have to pay me to take it to dispose of the boat.
A broken engine can get expensive very quickly. When I bought mine, the engine had great compression. I soon noticed a leak that turned out to be a cracked powerhead. Had to put on a rebuilt powerhead. Shortly after that, the lower unit stopped shifting into review. Had to rebuild the lower unit. The boat you are looking at sounds like a big risk to me. You might end up on top, but you could end up on bottom too.
freeportd posted 07-14-2010 08:28 PM ET (US)
Thanks modenacart,
I wish there were an easy way to determine waterlogged hull or not. I'm thinking it's not - I was able to lift the rear section with the engine on the stern. Wasn't light, but the engine must be 150 lbs anyway. Anyone have an easy way to determine integrity of hull? Going to a gravel pit isn't easy - and not common. Perhaps the mallet tapping thing?
This is on eBay now - starting bid of $1550. He needs to sell it as his house just sold and he needs to clear out soon. To be honest, I don't like the post in the boat - and I'm not sure I could cut it out cleanly without damaging the liner. I've posted a picture at http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4100/4795056428_422e426811_b.jpg . It's not pretty and removal is a crapshot.
I think I'll let this one pass until I'm a bit more experienced with Whaler evals. Better to miss a good deal than to end up with a poor one. I think a test drive is a mandatory part of the equation.
protek9543 posted 07-14-2010 11:39 PM ET (US)
My opinion. Keep looking.
tcrane posted 07-15-2010 08:21 AM ET (US)
This boat has been for sale for at least 6 months on various sites (ebay, craigslist. etc.) and I spoke with the current owner when he first listed it and was asking $5500 for the package....yes, that's right $5500. The current owner bought the boat a little less than a year ago from Massachusetts through Ebay. I remember looking at the posting through Ebay and thinking no way. The glassed in post area has a huge potential for water intrusion. Also, the hull used to have another aluminum contraption mounted to the rear athwartships bulkhead. It looks as though the current owner finally removed it, but if you look at the pictures you can see the holes in the bulkhead where the aluminum pipe structure used to be through-bolted. The holes are currently unfilled thereby allowing moisture into the foam.
There is a reason why this boat is still for sale after 6 months. I would definitely let it pass, there are plenty of good 13' Whalers out there....sometimes it just takes patience. Good luck with your search.
Tom
Whaler_bob posted 07-15-2010 10:05 AM ET (US)
The model number you listed J25TECRD- comes back as a 1984 Johnson 25hp.
http://shop2.evinrude.com/Index. aspx?s1=bd0ec7d4bd0b5ca57aaa21765c4bb575&catalog_id=0&siteid=1
freeportd posted 07-16-2010 09:54 AM ET (US)
tcrane, thanks for the info. Your info aligns with the discussion I had with the owner (w/o the $5500 listing previous!). I'm very confident that the post isn't an issue for water intrusion - having looked at it closely and checking the glassing around it - it's very tight. But, there were other areas (as you pointed out) that would allow water to intrude.
The biggest concern related to the fact that it was moored. As opposed to the limited intrusion that a trailered boat can incur, a moored boat has lots of opportunities. So, any place moisture can get in - will - in a moored boat. The trailered boat just doesn't have as much time for that to happen. Not saying it could't, but all equal, the moored boat has far higher opportunity to waterlog.
I've passed on that one - and will continue to search. There's a rebuild 'picture story' on flickr that has me inspired to rescue a sound, but cosmetically neglected boat. It proves what can be done to restore these boats!
tcrane posted 07-16-2010 10:40 PM ET (US)
Dark Harbor boatyard on Islesboro, ME has a 1960s 13' Whaler for sale for $1000. I don't know much about it other than that it has been in storage in their boathouse storage for a long time and they just want it gone. Here is their website:
http://www.darkharborboatyard.com/
let us know what you find out!
Tom

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Author	Topic: Appraisal request - quick replies needed!!
freeportd	posted 07-13-2010 08:56 PM ET (US) Hi all, I'm new to this board and looking to get my first Whaler. I've always liked the 13 - back in the 70s my friend had one with a 25 Johnson and we used it for everything including waterskiing! So, I'm in Maine and have located the following: http://maine.craigslist.org/boa/1840533733.html Tell me, is this a good deal? Would you folks jump on it as priced or is $2000 more reasonable? Owner isn't sure if the boat is waterlogged - he didn't think so. I need to move quickly as he's got someone coming tomorrow (Wednesday, 7/14) to look at it. Thanks in advance for your quick replies! Chuck
modenacart	posted 07-13-2010 09:02 PM ET (US) I would not buy any boat I didn't put in and test drive.
freeportd	posted 07-13-2010 09:27 PM ET (US) Given that the engine can't be started, what options do I have for checking it out without putting it in the water? I'll try to get a run on the water, but it sounds like the engine might not be ready (needs tank and hose at a minimum). I'm heading up tomorrow morning to check this out. Anyone else have thoughts?
modenacart	posted 07-13-2010 09:29 PM ET (US) I would still put it in the water and see how it drafts and get in it and see how it drafts. That will give you a general idea if it has a lot of water in the hull.
protek9543	posted 07-13-2010 09:39 PM ET (US) Maybe you can throw him an offer minus the motor?
freeportd	posted 07-13-2010 09:54 PM ET (US) Just for a second let's assume that there is water in the hull. So, what value does that make this boat? The wood is in good shape - as is the hull. I can post pictures he sent me if that's helpful.
freeportd	posted 07-13-2010 10:07 PM ET (US) Ok, here's some pictures: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4076/4792215302_9a367a6b88_b.jpg http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4076/4792215334_c783d0d7e3_b.jpg http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4118/4792215312_9dc2dea233_b.jpg http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4122/4792215254_46dc1c6784_b.jpg
freeportd	posted 07-13-2010 10:15 PM ET (US) Here's some pictures of the engine. I can't determine the year, but it's got to be close to the original engine. Boat is a 1963 according to seller - but I can't find a Johnson 25 made that year. The graphics suggest 60s vintage, but I looked through the brochures posted in the general forum and couldn't find this engine!! I have a Honda 30 that I picked up off Craigslist that I'd likely put on this boat. Short shaft - tiller, but I'll work to convert it. Here's the pictures: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4135/4792242154_4d83aa8b60_b.jpg http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4078/4792242166_7e22c5d85c_b.jpg
shindog107	posted 07-14-2010 09:52 AM ET (US) In Maine in the fall of 2005, I sold my solid 13 with a Johnson 28SPL and trailer for $3,000. No electronincs, rails or canvas.
Tohsgib	posted 07-14-2010 10:45 AM ET (US) For $1899 it is worth a look. Does not need to be run, good compression and spark is enough for me.
dobber	posted 07-14-2010 11:54 AM ET (US) Weigh the boat at a nearby gravel yard, this can tell you if its waterlogged. Go to the spec section to get the proper weight of a 13'. It looks to be on the money.
andygere	posted 07-14-2010 03:53 PM ET (US) The only thing that really concerns me is that giant post mounted in the middle of the deck. How is that thing attached to the boat and what was it used for? Price wise, I think the seller is in the ballpark considering age and condition. A usable Whaler with trailer without major cosmetic flaws for under $2k seems like a reasonable deal these days.
Not So Salty	posted 07-14-2010 06:09 PM ET (US) The post scares me too. Overall it appears to be in good shape, though I would take a close look at where the motor has been mounted. It appears as though there may have been some repair work done there. Given the age of the engine, and the fact it does not run today, you have to assume you are only buying the hull. For roughly $1,900, I think you can do better if you keep watching. This, however, is a midwest perspective. I refurbed a 13 before and sold it for about $4,000 to a guy who drove to Michigan from Connecticut to get it. He drove away with a huge smile on his face.
freeportd	posted 07-14-2010 06:19 PM ET (US) Hi all, So I went and looked at the boat today. As advertised, it has typical surface cracks - but overall in sound condition. The post is a galvanized one - well fiberglassed in. Owner is unsure if it was bolted first or just fiberglassed. It has a 4 by 4 plate at the bottom that's holding it well. If I were to buy it, I'd try to cut out the fiberglass around the base - and hope the post would come free. The owner thinks the prior owner used it for tying up the boat? My daughter has what I think is a better guess, might be the stepping point for the mast and sail!?!? Pipe's not horrible, but I'd want it gone. The trailer is slightly tweaked at the front - not sure if it got pinned during a backup maneuver. Overall, it needs new tires but seems quite usable. I'd say it's a $200 - $250 value. The motor is a project. While the thing turns and has compression, it's very doubtful it will start. The throttle is corroded and stuck - I'm sure that's fixable. There's no pull starter - just electric. To start by hand, a cord wrapped around the flywheel is required. Owner is unsure of year of motor. Model is J25TECRD and Serial is E5912703. Anyone know what year this is? At this point, I'd value the engine as a project - and thus give it $100 at best. The engine and trailer are thus worth roughly $300-$350. If I get the package for $1800 - that means the boat is about $1500. That's the tough one for me. It's my first look at a boat - so I have no comparisons except sales on Craiglist and eBay. My biggest concern is the waterlog factor. The boat was definitely moored for most of its life - and I'm not sure if it was covered. The wood looks ok, but that's because the current owner took it out, scraped it down and poly'd it. The steering wheel is very faded. The blue interior is quite faded as well as evidenced by a placard that was in place by the original owner, but removed by the current owner. There's another boat about the same distance from me with a 99 Honda 25 for $3300. While a bunch more $$, it already has the engine I'd want. I've not seen it yet, but might in the next couple of days. At some point, I have no doubt I'll own a Whaler 13 - but I have ultimate patience and will get the right one. That might mean losing out on a good deal - but more will come along. Everyone's input is very welcomed - and I thank those that have previously answered. Best, Chuck
modenacart	posted 07-14-2010 07:59 PM ET (US) To me, if the hull is waterlogged you would have to pay me to take it to dispose of the boat. A broken engine can get expensive very quickly. When I bought mine, the engine had great compression. I soon noticed a leak that turned out to be a cracked powerhead. Had to put on a rebuilt powerhead. Shortly after that, the lower unit stopped shifting into review. Had to rebuild the lower unit. The boat you are looking at sounds like a big risk to me. You might end up on top, but you could end up on bottom too.
freeportd	posted 07-14-2010 08:28 PM ET (US) Thanks modenacart, I wish there were an easy way to determine waterlogged hull or not. I'm thinking it's not - I was able to lift the rear section with the engine on the stern. Wasn't light, but the engine must be 150 lbs anyway. Anyone have an easy way to determine integrity of hull? Going to a gravel pit isn't easy - and not common. Perhaps the mallet tapping thing? This is on eBay now - starting bid of $1550. He needs to sell it as his house just sold and he needs to clear out soon. To be honest, I don't like the post in the boat - and I'm not sure I could cut it out cleanly without damaging the liner. I've posted a picture at http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4100/4795056428_422e426811_b.jpg . It's not pretty and removal is a crapshot. I think I'll let this one pass until I'm a bit more experienced with Whaler evals. Better to miss a good deal than to end up with a poor one. I think a test drive is a mandatory part of the equation.
protek9543	posted 07-14-2010 11:39 PM ET (US) My opinion. Keep looking.
tcrane	posted 07-15-2010 08:21 AM ET (US) This boat has been for sale for at least 6 months on various sites (ebay, craigslist. etc.) and I spoke with the current owner when he first listed it and was asking $5500 for the package....yes, that's right $5500. The current owner bought the boat a little less than a year ago from Massachusetts through Ebay. I remember looking at the posting through Ebay and thinking no way. The glassed in post area has a huge potential for water intrusion. Also, the hull used to have another aluminum contraption mounted to the rear athwartships bulkhead. It looks as though the current owner finally removed it, but if you look at the pictures you can see the holes in the bulkhead where the aluminum pipe structure used to be through-bolted. The holes are currently unfilled thereby allowing moisture into the foam. There is a reason why this boat is still for sale after 6 months. I would definitely let it pass, there are plenty of good 13' Whalers out there....sometimes it just takes patience. Good luck with your search. Tom
Whaler_bob	posted 07-15-2010 10:05 AM ET (US) The model number you listed J25TECRD- comes back as a 1984 Johnson 25hp. http://shop2.evinrude.com/Index. aspx?s1=bd0ec7d4bd0b5ca57aaa21765c4bb575&catalog_id=0&siteid=1
freeportd	posted 07-16-2010 09:54 AM ET (US) tcrane, thanks for the info. Your info aligns with the discussion I had with the owner (w/o the $5500 listing previous!). I'm very confident that the post isn't an issue for water intrusion - having looked at it closely and checking the glassing around it - it's very tight. But, there were other areas (as you pointed out) that would allow water to intrude. The biggest concern related to the fact that it was moored. As opposed to the limited intrusion that a trailered boat can incur, a moored boat has lots of opportunities. So, any place moisture can get in - will - in a moored boat. The trailered boat just doesn't have as much time for that to happen. Not saying it could't, but all equal, the moored boat has far higher opportunity to waterlog. I've passed on that one - and will continue to search. There's a rebuild 'picture story' on flickr that has me inspired to rescue a sound, but cosmetically neglected boat. It proves what can be done to restore these boats!
tcrane	posted 07-16-2010 10:40 PM ET (US) Dark Harbor boatyard on Islesboro, ME has a 1960s 13' Whaler for sale for $1000. I don't know much about it other than that it has been in storage in their boathouse storage for a long time and they just want it gone. Here is their website: http://www.darkharborboatyard.com/ let us know what you find out! Tom