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Author Topic:   270 Outrage - Help with pricing

jarnau posted 09-04-2010 07:44 AM ET (US)
Hey all,
My first post as I am new to the whaler scene.
I am looking at a 2006 Outrage with twin Verado 225's, northstar GPS/Sounder/Radar and a trailer. It has about 350 hours on it, not perfectly mint but in good condition.
The asking price was $85k, they immediately went to $75k when I started pushing. It's at a large whaler dealership.
What would be a good deal on this boat? Would a $65k offer be to low to be taken seriously?
Thanks,
Jim
themclos posted 09-04-2010 03:34 PM ET (US)
I have no experience with pricing new boats of that size, but what harm could a legitimate offer of $65K bring?
They will either accept or counter.
In this economy, I would make the offer.
Dan
10000 Lakes posted 09-05-2010 02:07 AM ET (US)
Have those Verados compression and leak down checked. They cannot currently be rebuilt at all because Mercury and other companies are not offering oversized pistons at all. A very expensive mistake to not have documentation of all aspects of the motors right down to the nitty gritty. For this sort of money,there should be a warranty covering catastrophic failure of the powerheads.
My 2 cents..
Jefecinco posted 09-05-2010 07:25 PM ET (US)
Who would warranty four year old engines against catastrophic power head failure? For how long would you like them to be warranted?
A due diligence pre-purchase marine survey is called for on the boat. Part of that would be a compression and perhaps a leak down test. For a Verado 350 hours is not much use and the engines, if maintained properly, should have a lot of use left in them. The engines should be inspected and tested by a certified Verado technician and the inspection should include an engine history report and highlight any updates which have not be performed.
I would offer $65,000 for the boat subject to survey if the boat is worth that to you. They can always say yes or no or counter offer.
If agreement on price is reached I would use a surveyor independent of the dealer and a Verado certified technician from another service facility.
Butch
10000 Lakes posted 09-05-2010 07:39 PM ET (US)
As far as what to offer
How could anyone possibly know what to offer. Nonsense,the people in this site who think they are the authority on values.
What is excellent condition to one person would maybe be average to poor to another person.
A good deal is ONLY defined by the actual buyer of any product, not the spectators.
Fact is,not too many salt water boats are good deals.
themclos posted 09-05-2010 08:55 PM ET (US)
"Fact is,not too many salt water boats are good deals."
Are you kidding? Spoken like somebody who doesn't have a clue. There are as many well maintained boats in salt water environments, as there are in fresh water environments.
It is all about the owner. Don't pass on a boat just because it has been used in salt water.
Dan
10000 Lakes posted 09-05-2010 10:52 PM ET (US)
Obviously you have never taken apart an outboard motor for rebuild, down to a bare block that came from salt water, or removed a carrier from a lower unit from salt water.
elaelap posted 09-06-2010 11:21 AM ET (US)
With this economy, I sure wouldn't even think of buying a used boat from a dealer unless it's for a throw-away price. New, sure, I guess, but I'd really grind away at the cost of a new boat. Too many absolutely great private party sales floating around right now, if you're patient and willing to travel some. Why pay for a dealer's necessary mark-ups with so many private party sellers desperate to sell, especially regarding larger, more expensive craft? If you do end up buying that boat from a dealership, better stop reading the ads in craigslist and at our CW Marketplace, for a good long while at least, or you're going to experience terminal buyer's remorse.
Tony
frontier posted 09-06-2010 02:25 PM ET (US)
Dealers can be an excellent place to buy a used boat (or car for that matter).
Especially in this economy.
Dealers generally give wholesale value for a trade in, and as most of us know, NADA wholesale value for a Boston Whaler is lower than it should be.
They want, and have to, move inventory, so they are motivated to sell and sell quick.
And many times with a warranty on the motor.
I bought a used Montauk with a Yamaha 4-Stroke from a dealer cheaper then it would have been from a private seller.
We also bought a used Camry from an Acura dealer - same situation.
Just be well prepared and don't be intimidated.
And don't be afraid to make a real low offer - you might be surprised!
elaelap posted 09-06-2010 02:35 PM ET (US)
I won't argue with frontier's real life experience, but all I know about current used boat pricing is that every day I see more and more amazing bargains on San Francisco Bay Area craigslist, and frequently on our Marketplace forum here at continuousWave as well. Good luck with your purchase, Jim, but trust me...take your time and shop around, especially if it's your first Whaler and you're looking for a used boat. There are some unbelievable deals out there just waiting for someone with cash on hand to snap 'em up.
Tony
jarnau posted 09-06-2010 03:26 PM ET (US)
How do I find the NADA wholesale prices for boats? I have no intention of paying NADA average retail price. I would like to understand how much profit margin the dealers generally work on so I can at least make a feasible offer.
face posted 09-06-2010 04:52 PM ET (US)
Google.
Okay, that was wrong...
http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-24-38-5694-0-0-0&l=1&w=24&p=38&f=5697&m=10244&y=2006&ml=B&gc=MR>c=MR&d=1600240375
Jefecinco posted 09-06-2010 07:04 PM ET (US)
NADA prices for boats are meaningless. Where does the data come from? Certainly not from the huge quantity of private boat sales.
On a given day a boat is worth what it will sell for.
Butch
jarnau posted 09-06-2010 07:52 PM ET (US)
On a given day, I don't want to pay more than anyone else. The bottom line is nothing is worth more than people will pay for it. Boats, houses, cars, candybars, softdrinks, you name it. BUT, there are plenty of data points that tell us what people have paid for these things, and that is how prices are set in the market. I am looking for that data on a 2006 Outrage.
Does anyone have access to soldboats.com? I guess this site pulls sold prices off of yachtworld.com.
face posted 09-06-2010 09:48 PM ET (US)
It's only a buyer's market if you BUY. Everyone thinks everything should just be given away these days.
Bottomline, what is the boat worth to you? Boats are not investments, they're toys. There is no magic answer here.
Jefecinco posted 09-07-2010 10:13 AM ET (US)
Jarnau,
In addition to other points boat prices are very geographical. Location makes a difference.
As to price points, ask yourself how many 2006 270 Outrages with twin 225 Verados and good electronics have been sold in your market area in the past year or so. If you are in the South Florida market there may have been a few but not many. On the Gulf Coast from Alabama to Texas perhaps another few have sold but again not many.
Then there is condition to consider. The Verados on the boat about which you ask have relatively low hours. You have looked at the boat and determined it is in good condition. You can do a national search using Google, EBay, Craigs List, or any other search sites you like. But, those sites will not provide any accurate description of the boat's condition. The prices you see will be asking prices which don't mean a lot as you have found with the 270 you like. About the only thing you'll be able to get from your search is perhaps a little leverage with which to pry down the price on "your" boat. You also may find a boat you like with a better price then the $65K you said you'd like to offer. If so, at a minimum you'll have to go look at it then assuming it was properly represented find and hire a local surveyor, etc. Unless the price is extraordinarily low you may find yourself spending the savings in travel expenses.
I suggest you do a lot of research and then try to buy the local boat at a price that is fair to you and allows the seller to make a profit so he can remain in business. Have you done a search on continuouswave?
As to your original question $65K does not seem to me to be too much to pay and the seller would probably not be insulted by an offer in that range. Do you love the boat? That is a question that is pretty important.
Butch
jarnau posted 09-07-2010 02:41 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the advice.
I do love the boat. It's perfect...size, lines, features are exactly what I am looking for.
I don't think I am in love with the Verados. I really wish I could get a new whaler with Yamaha's.
Are you all happy with your Verados?
Jefecinco posted 09-07-2010 05:49 PM ET (US)
I love my 135 HP Verado but have only a few hours on it. My research has determined to my satisfaction that they are outstanding engines. The DTS and Smart Craft usually found with Verados are outstanding improvements.
I suggest a search.
Butch
TC Goldman posted 09-08-2010 11:21 AM ET (US)
I also like the 270 and hope to buy one in the next year or two. I have been watching the asking prices. 65K I think is a fair price - in other words , I don't think you'll find many if any cheaper.
They don't seem to be going down in vaule very fast.

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Author	Topic: 270 Outrage - Help with pricing
jarnau	posted 09-04-2010 07:44 AM ET (US) Hey all, My first post as I am new to the whaler scene. I am looking at a 2006 Outrage with twin Verado 225's, northstar GPS/Sounder/Radar and a trailer. It has about 350 hours on it, not perfectly mint but in good condition. The asking price was $85k, they immediately went to $75k when I started pushing. It's at a large whaler dealership. What would be a good deal on this boat? Would a $65k offer be to low to be taken seriously? Thanks, Jim
themclos	posted 09-04-2010 03:34 PM ET (US) I have no experience with pricing new boats of that size, but what harm could a legitimate offer of $65K bring? They will either accept or counter. In this economy, I would make the offer. Dan
10000 Lakes	posted 09-05-2010 02:07 AM ET (US) Have those Verados compression and leak down checked. They cannot currently be rebuilt at all because Mercury and other companies are not offering oversized pistons at all. A very expensive mistake to not have documentation of all aspects of the motors right down to the nitty gritty. For this sort of money,there should be a warranty covering catastrophic failure of the powerheads. My 2 cents..
Jefecinco	posted 09-05-2010 07:25 PM ET (US) Who would warranty four year old engines against catastrophic power head failure? For how long would you like them to be warranted? A due diligence pre-purchase marine survey is called for on the boat. Part of that would be a compression and perhaps a leak down test. For a Verado 350 hours is not much use and the engines, if maintained properly, should have a lot of use left in them. The engines should be inspected and tested by a certified Verado technician and the inspection should include an engine history report and highlight any updates which have not be performed. I would offer $65,000 for the boat subject to survey if the boat is worth that to you. They can always say yes or no or counter offer. If agreement on price is reached I would use a surveyor independent of the dealer and a Verado certified technician from another service facility. Butch
10000 Lakes	posted 09-05-2010 07:39 PM ET (US) As far as what to offer How could anyone possibly know what to offer. Nonsense,the people in this site who think they are the authority on values. What is excellent condition to one person would maybe be average to poor to another person. A good deal is ONLY defined by the actual buyer of any product, not the spectators. Fact is,not too many salt water boats are good deals.
themclos	posted 09-05-2010 08:55 PM ET (US) "Fact is,not too many salt water boats are good deals." Are you kidding? Spoken like somebody who doesn't have a clue. There are as many well maintained boats in salt water environments, as there are in fresh water environments. It is all about the owner. Don't pass on a boat just because it has been used in salt water. Dan
10000 Lakes	posted 09-05-2010 10:52 PM ET (US) Obviously you have never taken apart an outboard motor for rebuild, down to a bare block that came from salt water, or removed a carrier from a lower unit from salt water.
elaelap	posted 09-06-2010 11:21 AM ET (US) With this economy, I sure wouldn't even think of buying a used boat from a dealer unless it's for a throw-away price. New, sure, I guess, but I'd really grind away at the cost of a new boat. Too many absolutely great private party sales floating around right now, if you're patient and willing to travel some. Why pay for a dealer's necessary mark-ups with so many private party sellers desperate to sell, especially regarding larger, more expensive craft? If you do end up buying that boat from a dealership, better stop reading the ads in craigslist and at our CW Marketplace, for a good long while at least, or you're going to experience terminal buyer's remorse. Tony
frontier	posted 09-06-2010 02:25 PM ET (US) Dealers can be an excellent place to buy a used boat (or car for that matter). Especially in this economy. Dealers generally give wholesale value for a trade in, and as most of us know, NADA wholesale value for a Boston Whaler is lower than it should be. They want, and have to, move inventory, so they are motivated to sell and sell quick. And many times with a warranty on the motor. I bought a used Montauk with a Yamaha 4-Stroke from a dealer cheaper then it would have been from a private seller. We also bought a used Camry from an Acura dealer - same situation. Just be well prepared and don't be intimidated. And don't be afraid to make a real low offer - you might be surprised!
elaelap	posted 09-06-2010 02:35 PM ET (US) I won't argue with frontier's real life experience, but all I know about current used boat pricing is that every day I see more and more amazing bargains on San Francisco Bay Area craigslist, and frequently on our Marketplace forum here at continuousWave as well. Good luck with your purchase, Jim, but trust me...take your time and shop around, especially if it's your first Whaler and you're looking for a used boat. There are some unbelievable deals out there just waiting for someone with cash on hand to snap 'em up. Tony
jarnau	posted 09-06-2010 03:26 PM ET (US) How do I find the NADA wholesale prices for boats? I have no intention of paying NADA average retail price. I would like to understand how much profit margin the dealers generally work on so I can at least make a feasible offer.
face	posted 09-06-2010 04:52 PM ET (US) Google. Okay, that was wrong... http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-24-38-5694-0-0-0&l=1&w=24&p=38&f=5697&m=10244&y=2006&ml=B&gc=MR>c=MR&d=1600240375
Jefecinco	posted 09-06-2010 07:04 PM ET (US) NADA prices for boats are meaningless. Where does the data come from? Certainly not from the huge quantity of private boat sales. On a given day a boat is worth what it will sell for. Butch
jarnau	posted 09-06-2010 07:52 PM ET (US) On a given day, I don't want to pay more than anyone else. The bottom line is nothing is worth more than people will pay for it. Boats, houses, cars, candybars, softdrinks, you name it. BUT, there are plenty of data points that tell us what people have paid for these things, and that is how prices are set in the market. I am looking for that data on a 2006 Outrage. Does anyone have access to soldboats.com? I guess this site pulls sold prices off of yachtworld.com.
face	posted 09-06-2010 09:48 PM ET (US) It's only a buyer's market if you BUY. Everyone thinks everything should just be given away these days. Bottomline, what is the boat worth to you? Boats are not investments, they're toys. There is no magic answer here.
Jefecinco	posted 09-07-2010 10:13 AM ET (US) Jarnau, In addition to other points boat prices are very geographical. Location makes a difference. As to price points, ask yourself how many 2006 270 Outrages with twin 225 Verados and good electronics have been sold in your market area in the past year or so. If you are in the South Florida market there may have been a few but not many. On the Gulf Coast from Alabama to Texas perhaps another few have sold but again not many. Then there is condition to consider. The Verados on the boat about which you ask have relatively low hours. You have looked at the boat and determined it is in good condition. You can do a national search using Google, EBay, Craigs List, or any other search sites you like. But, those sites will not provide any accurate description of the boat's condition. The prices you see will be asking prices which don't mean a lot as you have found with the 270 you like. About the only thing you'll be able to get from your search is perhaps a little leverage with which to pry down the price on "your" boat. You also may find a boat you like with a better price then the $65K you said you'd like to offer. If so, at a minimum you'll have to go look at it then assuming it was properly represented find and hire a local surveyor, etc. Unless the price is extraordinarily low you may find yourself spending the savings in travel expenses. I suggest you do a lot of research and then try to buy the local boat at a price that is fair to you and allows the seller to make a profit so he can remain in business. Have you done a search on continuouswave? As to your original question $65K does not seem to me to be too much to pay and the seller would probably not be insulted by an offer in that range. Do you love the boat? That is a question that is pretty important. Butch
jarnau	posted 09-07-2010 02:41 PM ET (US) Thanks for the advice. I do love the boat. It's perfect...size, lines, features are exactly what I am looking for. I don't think I am in love with the Verados. I really wish I could get a new whaler with Yamaha's. Are you all happy with your Verados?
Jefecinco	posted 09-07-2010 05:49 PM ET (US) I love my 135 HP Verado but have only a few hours on it. My research has determined to my satisfaction that they are outstanding engines. The DTS and Smart Craft usually found with Verados are outstanding improvements. I suggest a search. Butch
TC Goldman	posted 09-08-2010 11:21 AM ET (US) I also like the 270 and hope to buy one in the next year or two. I have been watching the asking prices. 65K I think is a fair price - in other words , I don't think you'll find many if any cheaper. They don't seem to be going down in vaule very fast.