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Author Topic:   windsheild repair/outrage/fasteners?
Brittwest posted 11-10-2000 02:50 PM ET (US)   Profile for Brittwest   Send Email to Brittwest  
seeking source for rubber fasteners for attaching plexi windsheild to console for 19 Outrage.

Old one have UV degraded and cracked.

Part consists of rubber grommet with threaded insert to accept 10/24.

seven required.


help!
appwest@ix.netcom.com

Brittwest posted 11-10-2000 02:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for Brittwest  Send Email to Brittwest     
correction
boat is 1983 18 outrage
triblet posted 11-10-2000 04:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
This is somewhere in the archives, probably
under OEM. They were in Florida, I think.

Chuck Tribolet

Britt West posted 04-28-2001 12:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for Britt West  Send Email to Britt West     
I still can't find em

HELP

04/28/01

Tom W Clark posted 04-28-2001 01:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Britt,

I'm not sure sure if this is exactly the part but it might meet your needs:

http://scottnet.com/Catalog/wellnut_page.htm

Tom W Clark posted 04-28-2001 01:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
It's interesting to note that the 10-24 size also has a GM part number. Perhaps you could just go down to your local Chevy dealer and pick some up!
stagalv posted 04-28-2001 01:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for stagalv  Send Email to stagalv     
I just put a new windshield on my Montauk and the "Wellnuts" are available at Boat U.S. and I believe they cost about .70 each.
Other than these you just need some machine screws, locknuts and finishing washers. Rex
Tom W Clark posted 04-28-2001 07:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
I just got back from my neighborhood hardware store and they had a whole rack of wellnuts. The 10-24 size cost 60 each. If you have trouble finding them, just send me five bucks and I'll mail you some.

stagalv, do you remeber if there were white nylon bushings in the holes through the plexiglass? I took the windshield off my Outrage's console in order to polish it and I seem to remember something like that. Also, is there a flat fasher underneath the finish washer on the outside of the plexiglass put there to protect the plexiglass from the edge of the finish washer?

lhg posted 04-29-2001 12:23 AM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
I have several spare sets of that fastener assembly, and can't part with them. But I remember the "Wellnut" was an unusal size, and I had to get these from the BW Dealer.

The five part assembly is as follows, as listed in the Outrage standard console parts list: (from outside going in)

1. Screw: #10-32 x 1 1/4" (note "32" thread)

2. Finishing Washer: #10

3. Flat Washer: 1/4"

4. Bushing, Nylon : no size given, but as Tom mentioned, slides through plexiglass.
Has a "lip" on it that goes against the plexiglass and holds it tight - it is not a straight tube shape.
The flat washer does not touch the windshield

5: Wellnut: #G10-32 Wellnut goes between windshield and console. Hard to find?

I wonder if the windshields on the current Montauks are installed the same way? On the older (pre 1994) consoles, the black tape striping was on the Console. I have noticed that the new windshields have a black stripe on the windshield itself, and nothing on the console. The black "Mat-tac" around the steering wheel center section is also not used anymore.

Tom W Clark posted 04-29-2001 09:34 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Larry,

Excellent precision in your reply. I like that. But I just want to clarify a few things.

I seemed to remember the srews as being fine thread (10-32) but I imagine that if Brittwest has 10-24 wellnuts and 10-24 screws then this would work too. Of course this is not what you or I would use....

How is the "G10-32" wellnut any different than the 10-32 wellnuts listed elsewhere? The Scott Supply page lists six different sized of 10-32 wellnuts. Surely one of these would be suitable. If you have a set of hardware perhaps you could dig out your calipers and measure one of the correct wellnuts and we could pin this thing down.

Also, is it true that there is no locknut on the inside of the console that prevents the screws from accidently (or easily) being removed?

stagalv posted 04-29-2001 10:59 AM ET (US)     Profile for stagalv  Send Email to stagalv     
Tom, I don't remember a white bushing on my old windshield and no I didnt place washers under the finishing washers. Hmmmm, now you are making me think I should redo it. I probably will, it's no big deal.

Before I replaced it I went to my local BW dealer and looked at a new Montauk and they had nothing between the finishing washer and the plexiglass. Maybe I shouldn't have copied what Brunswick did.

Tom W Clark posted 04-29-2001 11:20 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
stagalv,

It doesn't suprise me at all the the newer boats don't have quite as involved a system as the CML boats. But, let's face it, you could probably screw the windshield on with drywall screws and it would work. But for the more particular aficianodos (read anal s.o.b.'s) among us, I think it is useful and satisfying to understand what the very best method or detail is.

The "bushing" I was refering to is more properly called a shoulder washer or insulating washer. One source for these is McMaster-Carr Supply Co. www.mcmaster.com

I strongly suspect that a guy could round up all the parts necessary to replicate exactly what Whaler used on this windshield by going to a hardware store or two or simply using an online source like McMaster-Carr without spending a lot of money and without ordering through a Whaler dealer.

Chesapeake posted 04-30-2001 03:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chesapeake  Send Email to Chesapeake     
Larry: Interesting comment regarding the bushing. The plexiglass windshield from my Nauset was not original (OK that's obvious). Whoever installed the replacement did the exact same thing you mentioned. The holes in the plexiglass were oversized (about 1/4"). A stainless sheet metal screw inserted through a small plastic bushing filled the space. The bushing looked like it was handcut from a small piece of poly tubing (like the kind on an aerator). The plexiglass guy I talked with said this is done to keep the windshield from cracking at the hole location when under stress.

To your other question, there is a rubber / neoprene washer between the finish washer and the glass and another between the glass and the console.

Question: what is a wellnut? Would these be applicable to my situation as my console is wood? Sorry for the ignorant question.

Bob (Chesapeake)

Tom W Clark posted 04-30-2001 07:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Bob,

To answer your question about the Wellnut, just click the scottnet link above in the fourth reply and you will see a picture of one (two actually). I'm sure they would work with a wood console but you might want to use a "long grip" Wellnut.

To test the theory from my earlier post, I stopped by one of our nation's larger "big box" home improvement stores (Lowe's) today to see what I could find. Here are the results:

1) #10-32 x 1 1/4" Phillips flat head stainless steel machine screw 20
2) #10 stainless steel finishing washer 18
3) 1/4" stainless steel flat washer 13
4) 1/4" long x 1/4" diameter white nylon flanged bushing (shoulder washer) 15
5) 10-32 Wellnut 60
Total cost for this five piece set = $1.26
A set for a Montauk or Outrage windshield (seven) would cost $8.82

notes: Wellnut has outside diameter of barrel (uncompressed) of 3/8" and a barrel length of 1/2". Diameter of its flange is 1/2" and thickness of its flange is 1/32". Lowe's also had a "long grip range" Wellnut with a barrel that was about an inch long.

The dimensions of the flanged nylon bushing are for the barrel. The overall length is 5/16" and the flange diameter is just over 3/8"

I would love to hear back from Larry as to whether or not all these parts meet "Whaler spec"

Chesapeake posted 05-01-2001 09:08 AM ET (US)     Profile for Chesapeake  Send Email to Chesapeake     
Tom:

Thanks much for the response on this and the finishing question.

Tom, what is the application for the wellnut?
Why and where would I use a wellnut rather than a washer and a regular nut? I noticed on the web-site you referred to that there are two types a brass and a neoprene. Shed any light there? Sorry for the naive questions. This people on this site are amazingly knowledgeable.

Bob

triblet posted 05-01-2001 10:23 AM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
The wellnut is rubber and cushions the
windshield, and probably more importantly,
allows the windshield and console to flex
relative to each other.

My '98 Montauk does not have the plastic
insert or flat washer, just screw, finish
washer, wellnut.

Chuck

Tom W Clark posted 05-01-2001 11:36 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Chuck is right. I'm sure Whaler used them for the cushioning ability. The other reason Wellnuts are used in general is that they can be used as a blind fastener, i.e. where you cannot got to the end of the screw to put on a nut.

If you look at the illustrations in the McMaster-Carr page and the Scott page you see the Wellnuts being used where the end of the Wellnut is beyond the inside edge of the material it is going through and expanding there. Kinda' like a pop rivet.

But they can also be used in a hole that has a bottom. In this case the whole barrel expands and grips the sides of the hole much like the tip of a wedge anchor used in bolting things to concrete. The first time I ever saw a Wellnut was one my second Montauk which I bought used. The previous owner had mounted his downrigger mount directly to the top of the gunnel using four Wellnuts to bolt it down. It worked fine for the six years he owned it. (I ended up removing it and executing four of my invisible gelcoat patches)

lhg posted 05-01-2001 04:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Wellnut used on windshield installation detail: (Wellnuts basically work like a rubber Molly or toggle, expanding behind the fiberglass console to hold the windshield.

Size is "G10-32"

Shank diameter is 3/8", requiring same size hole in fiberglass console. Shank length is 5/8"

Head diameter is 3/4" and 3/16" thick. The head cushions the windshield from the fiberglass console, as has been mentioned.

I have looked many times in marine stores and never have seen this particular sized Wellnut. Maybe someone can find a source.

The dimensions Tom found must be for a different item.

Regarding the sleeve bushing, the shank is 1/4 x 1/4 as Tom mentioned. The head is 1/16 thick by 13/32" diameter.

Tom W Clark posted 05-01-2001 07:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Larry,

Thank you for measuring those for us.

OK, my experiment did not have perfect results. The flanged bushing is exactly what Larry describes but the Wellnut was a different model. But a closer examination of the Scott Supply Service page shows that the fifth of the 10-32 sizes is precisely what Larry indicates. Apparently they are available in a 25 pack, enough for three windshields. I'll include the link again:

http://scottnet.com/Catalog/wellnut_page.htm

lhg posted 05-01-2001 08:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Tom - Thanks for lead on finding these. Just added it to my database. As I've said, short of a Dealer, this is first time I've known where to find these items.
Brittwest posted 05-19-2001 02:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for Brittwest  Send Email to Brittwest     
thanks for all of the info gentlemen!

I really appreciate it.

Britt West
Lake Mead, Nevada

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