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ContinuousWave: Whaler Repairs/Mods
Raise Montauk console?
|Author||Topic: Raise Montauk console?|
posted 03-15-2001 04:37 PM ET (US)
I know in the past there was adiscussion that some people have raised the console and RPS a couple of inches on the Montauk. I am at the point of "reassembling" my boat and could easily raise these two items. What are some of the good points of raising the console and seat? I can see that raising the seat would leave more room for a tank but what about the console? Thanks, Rex
posted 03-15-2001 11:45 PM ET (US)
Rex, I am probably the guilty person here, as I have done this on both of my Outrages, both of which have the Montauk console and Reversible Pilot Seat. I can think of no reason not to do it, as I have always thought that both of these items were designed too low for most people. The higher console will improve the "feel" of handling the boat, making it seem like a larger boat, and give you space under the console for additional boat item storage like jackets, cushions, fenders etc. Same for the RPS, giving you a more comfortable seating height, and better visibility and control while seated. Also, more space underneath.
Everyone that has driven my boat has liked the feel of the higher components.
I have used 4" for the console and 6" for the seat. The 6" allows for an Igloo 72qt cooler, with cushion, to sit in Whaler's cleats under the seat. Not applicable to a Montauk, but nice for any Outrage readers.
For the console I used 3" wide teak blocking, and the same for the seat. Looks like a factory original installation.
If I ever own a Montauk again, I would do this improvement instantly. Highly recommended. I have sent some pictures of these details to Jimh. Maybe he'll put them up some day, or do an article on it.
posted 03-16-2001 02:07 AM ET (US)
i alway feel that my montauk concole is too low for me, but can't think what the best way to raise it higher, good to see you mention this, thanks ihg, can't wait to see that pictures
posted 03-16-2001 10:32 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the comments. Something else I thought of is that I keep my boat in the garage at times and the vertical clearance was quite close already. I will certainly have to take an accurate measure before raising it.
You mentioned that raising the console will give me more storage space but I don't understand where it will come from. My console has a false bottom in which would be raised with the console itself. Therefore the interior space would remain the same. When I raise the console it would just make more space under the false bottom. Is this where you are talking about? Rex
posted 03-16-2001 03:15 PM ET (US)
Yes, I mean the space under the plywood floor of the console. It will then be about 9" high. I put my fenders under there, and have stretched a bungee cord across the front about 4" above the floor to keep them in place. Would work for life jackets also.
posted 03-16-2001 05:08 PM ET (US)
I, like Larry, have also raised both the console and reversable pilot seat on my Outrage. I used two different methods.
For the seat, I used multiple 1" blocks of a material called Starboard, in black, cut and routed to match the bottom of the vertical seat uprights.
For the console, I glued up multiple pieces of mahogany, routed the top edges and applied a coat of West epoxy. Sanded then painted to match the console. Since these blocks I wanted to mount very strongly to the deck, I did the following:
Drilled out 5 1" holes in the top of each block, about 1.5" down. Then drilled the rest of the way through for the proper machine screw (I know, note below) size.
Drilled 10 matching holes, oversized through the deck and into the plywood underneath. Then bent a nail, and inserted that into the holes, to dig out, if you will, and area larger then the holes.
Mixed up epoxy and poured in the holes, and left overnight.
The next day, I tapped the now solid epoxy plugs for the proper sized maching screw.
When I bedded the console risers, I used 5200. Then used oversized wood screws (and more of them) to mount the console to the risers.
Was it overkill? Probably. But I had a Nauset and Montauk that having to rework the console mounting was a _constant_, yearly job.
As for going the extra mile and using an epoxy plug.... using this method will prevent any water into entering the inner hull and foam.... at least through THAT area.
Best - Don
posted 03-16-2001 05:14 PM ET (US)
Read that paragraph as "machine" screws.
And why the different materials?
Wanted to see how hard Starboard was to work with. Have thought about making a sleeping platform out of planks of it.
As for using mahogany over teak, I wanted low maintence down along the deck area, where alot of stuff can bang into it (keep in mind that Larry has more walking width even with his superconsole, then I do), so rather then teak and have to treat it (and even _I_, as someone who has an afinity towards varnished teak won't consider varnishing something down that low) I went with a painted riser.
posted 03-17-2001 12:02 AM ET (US)
I was in the mood for some scanning, so I started at 8 p.m. and finished around midnight. Got some shots of raised consoles in the 17 images I scanned, including Don's and Larry's. My scanner is not a speed demon!
Now I have to work with images, crop, tweak, convert to jpeg, upload, wrap some HTML around them...a few more hours and I'll have something for you guys.
One thing, both Don and Larry are way over six feet tall, so you might factor that in when they're talking about raising the seat 6 inches.
posted 03-17-2001 08:05 AM ET (US)
I'm curiious Are the Montauk and Outrage consoles actually identical? It has always been my impression that although they look identical, the Montauk console was actually shorter than the one on the Outrage.
posted 03-17-2001 01:45 PM ET (US)
As long as we're talking about the Standard Outrage console (as opposed to the Super console), they are the same. The only difference is that the Outrage consoles have two switch panels below the instrument panels, to accomodate the need for additional pumps, etc., and to free up the main panels for twin engine gauges, etc. The Reversible Pilot seat is also the same.
Actually, all this stuff was designed FOR the Outrage, but then someone discovered it would work in a 16 also, hence the Montauk.
In the last three years of the Classic Outrages, 91-93, the standard console WAS different. See photos of Kingfish's 22 outrage, a 1992.
posted 03-17-2001 05:29 PM ET (US)
Guys, I belive the Consoles on the last Classic Outrages were higher? I have seen John Flooks `22 Outrage and it is beautiful, but also noticed when in it standing at the console, it was hard for me to see up over it. I am 5`8 and half". I like to just see over the console and sit down to block air. So in a whole, I like the lower Montaulk console, because of my heigth. I know that I really don`t like the Van Lancker designed console of the Reebok Outrages, they are really high! Regards-Jack Graner.
posted 03-18-2001 12:51 AM ET (US)
Jack - thanks for the compliments...
I don't know if you stood behind my console before or after I raised it (before, I think!). I am 5'-6", and I raised the console about 41/2"; I now look through the windshield rather than over it, and my head is at about the same elevation whether I'm standing or sitting (had to lower the leaning post/seat in order to accomplish this). I like the whole arrangement tons better this way.
posted 12-10-2002 07:22 PM ET (US)
JimH - bringing this old thread (recently referenced) back up to hold you to your promise in your 03/17/01 post above!!! I think a lot of people here would be very interested.
posted 12-10-2002 07:33 PM ET (US)
Since the thread is back to the top, I'll add something from my perspective, which is a little lower than some of the rest of you. I'm about 5'9 or so, and the console height on my montauk seems fine to me while standing. But the other day I happended to sit down on my RPS on top of my lifejacket, adding about 2" to the seat height. I really liked that, as it have me a cleared view forward over my forward shelter (mines up quite a lot), over the fishfinder and stratched plexiglass windscreen I'm going for a 2" boost in seat height.
|Tom W Clark||
posted 12-10-2002 07:55 PM ET (US)
We have discussed how to raise both the RPS and the standard console in many, many different threads. The technique for raising one and/or the other usually involves adding a block (in some form or another) or two to the bottom of the seat and/or console.
Certainly, different people will be served by different heights depending on their size. A Whaler owner with kids that have some driving privileges might not want to raise the console at all, nor would more petite adult boaters.
Personally, I stand 6' 2" and have owned three Whalers with the standard console and the RPS. It never occurred to me to raise either one. Much depends on how you use the boat. I think that the next Whaler I own with a console will get raised because I can see the benefit of it but I also know that here in the NW when it rained, it was often nice to be able to sit down and get behind the windscreen.
I knew a couple who had an 18 Outrage with the standard pedestal seats. They had their dealer cut the pedestals down so the seats would actually be lower just so they could get more protection. But this will only work if you have a long torso. Kids would want the seat raised relative to the console.
Along this line of thinking, it seems that there is some benefit to having the seat raised relative to the console by about 2". lhg’s comments seem to suggest this is an optimal relationship regardless of where the console height winds up. On his boats he raised the console 4" but the seat 6". I have some really nice photographs that Larry sent me and they have got me thinking.
What we really need is someone to manufacture new RPS legs that are 2" taller. Maybe it would be even better if we had the option of two new sizes of legs, one 2" taller and the other 4" taller. Given the amount of discussion about building custom Whaler knock-offs and the continued demand for the Classic RPS (and the difficulty in finding economical components to assemble them ourselves) it seems natural that someone here should undertake this effort. What would it take?
posted 12-10-2002 09:04 PM ET (US)
In case it's of interest to anybody, raising the RPS and console came to me in stages.
My first Whaler with an RPS was my 1986 18 Outrage. I quickly realized that the seat was too low and found myself sitting on TWO boat cushions piled on the seat. For me, at 6-2, that seemed about right. So then I figured out, why not just raise the seat and solve this situation permanently. So I raised it 4" in my 18 Outrage, leaving console as is.
When I bought my 25 Outrage in 1989, I knew I wanted the standard (Montauk) console, as the 18 had, rather than the usually furnished Super console almost all of the 25's had. I liked the HUGE amount of interior floor space it afforded. But then I realized this small console would look like a toy in the big, higher sided 25. When the boat was delivered, my design suspicions were confirmed. The standard console also looks out of proportion (too short) in a 22. So even before the boat was delivered, I designed and made blocking to raise the console the 4", since I knew I would also do this with the RPS. It really did improve the overall appearance of the boat, and scale of the console, and as a bonus, I discovered the height was MUCH better functionally, and more comfortable in terms of wheel and engine control height. Then, with the 4" higher console, it seemed the seat needed to come up some more. Plus I wanted to use the empty space under the RPS for a 72 Qt cooler seat, that could be pulled out for seating, etc. plus give me a place for fish caught & dry storage. To fit this clearly under the seat, sitting in the Montauk cooler cleats with no bungee straps needed, the seat had to be 6" high. So that's what I did, in my 25.
So then, when using the 18, the console seemed too low, and I also needed the under seat 72 Qt Igloo in this boat. Remember these Classic outrages are not great on dry storage. So finally, the 18 got it's console lifted 4" and seat another 2" to 6" total, with cooler underneath. Now both Whalers feel exactly the same when at the controls. This works very well for me, with almost "twin" Outrages.
I should also say that none of this effects or interferes with the use of Mills canvas, unaltered.
posted 12-11-2002 11:35 AM ET (US)
Larry, I too would love to see your details in picture form. Unfortunately, I have a problem that may a little unique. My wife is becomming more and more comfortable at the wheel of her boat. I've got to say, it makes my day to see her work the boat while I'm setting anchors, tying up or setting marks during regattas for junior sailors. The problem stems from me being 6' 3" and my bride being 5'0".
I have the pedastal seating in my 18OR and I believe it to be higher than the RPS. No complaints there. However, when under way I stand a lot, and that's where I wish the CC was at least 4" higher.
If I ever get a chance to raise mine, I might make a removable dense foam platform that my wife could use when at the wheel.
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