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Author Topic:   drain tubes
Angryeel posted 08-08-2001 04:13 PM ET (US)   Profile for Angryeel   Send Email to Angryeel  
Hello all. This is my first time on this site and I am very impressed with the amount of information that is excanged here and wish I knew of this place before I began my resto project. Since I can not change that, I do have a few things left to finish before the boat gets wet, and one is to replace the drain tubes. I was thinking that I should replace them and after reading some of the threads here I am convinced that they need replaced. The hull is a 64 sconnet, it had a small amount of repair work done before it sat in a barn for about 15 years. I bought the boat and completely stripped it, did the glass work, and painted with a one part paint, (should have used a 2 part epoxy), I am now in the process of installing the console and seat. Anyway, I am wondering how to go about removing and replacing the drain tubes, I think they are about the last place for water to enter the hull and would love to get them seeled up well. Thanks for any input.
Angryeel
dburton posted 08-08-2001 04:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for dburton  Send Email to dburton     
See Larrysherman' spost entitled "I'm making a bet. $10 to anyone who..."
Angryeel posted 08-08-2001 04:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for Angryeel  Send Email to Angryeel     
dburton, thanks for the tip. I should have been a little more specific. My hull is a 1964 17' sconnett and all it has are the couple that go through the transom. I do not think that these are the type being discussed in that thread. Thank you for the heads up though.
Angryeel posted 08-08-2001 04:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for Angryeel  Send Email to Angryeel     
dburton, thanks for the tip. I should have been a little more specific. My hull is a 1964 17' sconnett and all it has are the couple that go through the transom. I do not think that these are the type being discussed in that thread. Thank you for the heads up though.
LarrySherman posted 08-08-2001 04:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for LarrySherman  Send Email to LarrySherman     
Angryeel,

You have a lot of choices availible to you. I would go to West Marine, etc.. and look at you options. the standard brass tube is 2.99 at West ( but get an O-ring for it, which they did not have when I last looked at mine), or you can put in one of the screw out ones. Others on the forum have used ones with built in chek valves. Really your call. If your boat will be living in the water, do the check valve, otherwise up to you.

Hope this helps, Larry

Angryeel posted 08-08-2001 04:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for Angryeel  Send Email to Angryeel     
Thanks Larry, that is exactly what I was looking for. I am thinking my old ones will come out fairly easily but in case they do not, what is the best way you have found to remove them?
LarrySherman posted 08-08-2001 05:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for LarrySherman  Send Email to LarrySherman     
Take a big flat head and put i in line with and againt the old rounded over part uf the tube. Strike briskly with hammer. Move driver tip further into hole, strike again. Repeat as necessary to collapse tube.

I'm makeing a little joke. Actually, pretty much the above, but the point is not to destroy the tube while its in the hole, but rater collapse it and pull it out. Long medium sized needle nose can help here. On the outrage a real pain in the behind. the dubes have a tendency to assume a larger dimension that the hole thaey go through, and then you are left trying to manipulate them while laying on your stomach done in the sump under the console. I almost couldn't get out (6', 250 easy...).

Good luck, and lets us know how else we can help. Can't wait to see your boat!

Angryeel posted 08-09-2001 03:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for Angryeel  Send Email to Angryeel     
Thanks for the advice Larry. I am hoping to finish the boat tomorrow so I should have some pictures soon. It will be far from origional or even pretty, but it should meet my needs pretty well. I can not wait to get it in the water and do a little fishing. I am sure I will have plenty of ?s as I own and use the boat. As I said, I realy wish I had known of the great site before I started the project. At least I know for the next one.
Thanks again,
Angryeel
LarrySherman posted 08-18-2001 10:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for LarrySherman  Send Email to LarrySherman     

I have successfully replaces 2 of the 8 tubes in my boat. I'll give you some detail.

I measured and cut a new bronze thru hull for the starboard aft drain well. I thought that I might as well cut the post side to the same length. Big mistake. The port side is about 1/2 inch thicker through the hull. I measured the forward bait well, and it fits there, so not problems, just annoying.

I make this sound much easier than it was. All my helpers have gotten tired of going to the boat, so all the jobs that take 2 people get done by me, alone. It ends up looking like a keystone cops film, with only one cop. I covered myself in Fast Cure 4200, and was getting a little frustrated.

So, with the 2 aft thru hulls replaced, I go forward to work on the bow. I paint some PVA on three thru hulls, and on the hull area where they will seat. Mix up a batch of epoxy with medium weight fairing compound, peanut butter thick. I spread this on the base of the thru hulls, push them in, and run a tongue depressor around the edge and tape in place. I go up top and look in the port and starboard line lockers, and realize that the nut that came with the bronze thru hull will not fit, due to the molded shape of the locker. I'm thinking I will grind the side of the nut flat. Not sure though.

This last bit went generally well, but I leave out my failed attempt to do this as bigz describes, with mish-mash. I thought I had scissors in my toolbox, but didn't, so I used a razor blade to cut up some cloth, mix up the mish-mash, and smear on the thru-hull. Unfortunately, I can't get the mish mash to fair (must mot be cut up enough I surmise), so I clean it all up, and go with the fairing compound.

So, with the three thru hulls curing, I decide to try to fix the anchor locker tube. On my boat, the inner and outer hulls are separated by about 6 inches of foam here. To complicate matters, the tube does not emerge from the hull at a 90-degree angle. Itís more like 70/110, depending on how you view the world.

Well, I assume that since I have the BW specific flaring tool, this will not present a problem. I was wrong. The tool, for those of you who have not seen it, it consistes of two ss flaring dies, with a 3/8 inch 5 inch long bolt through it. For the longer through hulls, you buy a section of 3/8 threaded rod to replace the bolt.

You are supposed to put the tube and o-rings in place, insert the tool as if it were a bolt, and then tighten to flair. This does not work as advertised. The tool does not accommodate the angle of the hull at all. I try tightening any way, planning to use a ball peen hammer or some similar tool to complete the flair. When I go topsides to remove my vice grip, I see that the o-ring has completely squeezed out from behind the tube.

So now, the nex time I get up to the boat (itís a 100 miles away), Iíll have to remove yet another one of these tubes. Just my luck. Of course, at this point, I have even more 4200 on me, and mixed with the epoxy from part two of todayís work, my hands are a mess, as is just about anything else I have touched.

I guess Iíll get a smaller diameter threaded rod, and hope that that will allow the outer flaring die to accommodate the angle of the hull. Iím also going to email Chuck Bennett at BW and solicit his advice. First I have to spend a few hours cleaning the 4200 off of my tools.

I am so tired of these tubes. They are really taking the fun out this project for me. I hope you guys are having better luck.

reelescape1 posted 08-19-2001 09:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for reelescape1  Send Email to reelescape1     
I realize my solution isn't original, but I use and fish my boat as much as possible! Being the machinist in the family, I made a SS flanged "piece" to insert up through the bottom of my '90 22' OR fish-box...the O.D. is the same as the original tube with the I.D. ~1/2"....the piece is threaded on the fish-box end and a machined flanged nut with a set-screw screwed on, with plenty of 5200...it's thicker walled, and won't be "attacked" like the thin bronze tubes will. I use a 1/2" rubber plug in the bore...the holes' area is obviously reduced, but there is a pump there too...I feel it's a better fix than factory and will probably fix any other failures the same way....any competent machine shop should be able to fab something similar. Any tube that's not "pump assisted" will be made at least the original I.D. for flow reasons....the hole in the hull will have to be enlarged for this.
LarrySherman posted 08-21-2001 12:46 AM ET (US)     Profile for LarrySherman  Send Email to LarrySherman     
Thanks reelscape,

I like your idea, but I'm not much of a machineist. Wood worker, yes.

I founf extra long bronze thru hulls in the right diameter, and they will work, its the anchor loker that has me beat. About 6.5 inches in lenght, and perpindicular on the inside, but about 70/110 on the outside.

I'll figure something out...

Tom W Clark posted 08-21-2001 09:57 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Larry Sherman,

How did Whaler install the anchor locker drain tube? If they did it, surely you can too.

Do the original drain tubes (and the replacements you've put it) have rubber O-rings on both ends? Did Whaler use the O-rings originally in lieu of, or in addition to polyurethane sealant? I imagine that a factory production setting might lend itself to using the O-rings or gaskets dry rather than messy old caulk. If this is so, wouldn't the use of good caulk do a better job than, and eliminate the need for, the O-rings?

reelescape1 posted 08-21-2001 10:29 AM ET (US)     Profile for reelescape1  Send Email to reelescape1     
My fish box tube only had o-rings, no sealant. It looked like it had been attacked by chemical (?). Anybody got any ideas on this??
LarrySherman posted 08-21-2001 10:54 AM ET (US)     Profile for LarrySherman  Send Email to LarrySherman     
Mine had o-rings, if there was sealant, it had long since disapated.

what I tried was to apply 4200 liberally to both ends of the hole. One the pre-flaired end of the tube, I put 4200 inside the "cup" of the flair, and around the circumfrence of the tube. Then I slid the o-ring up the tube into the 4200 filled cup. Insert the tube into the hole. Drop the flairing tool through the hole. with vice grip attached.

On the outside of the hull, ensure tube is aligned correctly, then smear outside of tube with 4200. Put o-ring on tube, and snug up to the hull. Attach lower part of flairing tool and begin to tighten.

It is here that the process breaks down, as the flairing tool can not accomidate the angle the tube is cut at to match the hull.

Here is an ASCII drawing to illistrate (the angles are wrong, but I think you get the idea):

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LarrySherman posted 08-21-2001 11:01 AM ET (US)     Profile for LarrySherman  Send Email to LarrySherman     
Thast didn't work, did it. Here is another attempt, with the foam included:

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LarrySherman posted 08-23-2001 11:37 AM ET (US)     Profile for LarrySherman  Send Email to LarrySherman     
Here is Chuck's reply:

There were several different flaring tools used at the factory, however, this seems like a rather steep angle for either one. One was used for flat or even flaring and another was used for a slight angle. If you can't find the correct flaring tool, you might want to try it with a ball peen hammer (carefully). With the end of the drain tube, used on the inside of the boat, already pre-flared, install the o-ring and place the tube into the hole. Measure down about 3/8", mark it, and cut with hacksaw. Place the O-ring around the drain tube and, while someone else is holding the other end of the tube, proceed to peen or roll the edges of the tube over the o-ring until it is sealed. A little 3M5200 might help seal it better than the old o-rings. Good luck with the angled installation! Regards, Chuck

I think I'll try flairing the tube on a bench vise, with a dowel inside it, then insert from below. Nothing is easy as it seems...

RSGAULT posted 08-26-2001 08:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for RSGAULT  Send Email to RSGAULT     
I just purchased a new drain tube for the motor well and the long tube for the main drain from a BW dealer. When I asked about the flareing tool they told me that they did not have any tools to flare the ends of the tubes, that their mechanics in the shop made their own dies to flare the ends. The other problem I see is that my boat is a 13' Sport and the transom is not perpendicular to the tube. Could someone advise on how to flare the ends of the tube flush with the transom and where to purchase the tools to flare the ends.
Tom W Clark posted 08-26-2001 08:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
One source for the flanging tool is Hamilton Marine http://hamiltonmarine.com/ Price: $35.45, in their 2001 catalog, page 122
Angryeel posted 08-28-2001 11:52 AM ET (US)     Profile for Angryeel  Send Email to Angryeel     
Part 2 of the same question: After inspecting my drain tubes I have found that 2 of them are in great shape, and one seems to need some attention. The tube that runs from the sump through the lower portion of the transon is a little weird. The part that is in the sump appears to be pretty decent, I can see good brass everywhere, it does not however extend all the way through the boat. Looking from the transom side, there is no tube at all for about the first few inches of the hole. Was this origionaly a 2 piece tube, What is my best course of action here. I am leaning towards driving the remaining tube out of the hole and putting a pvc tube in place with some 5200. Any opinions on this or any better suggestions would be great. Thanks again for all of the great input.
Angryeel
LarrySherman posted 08-28-2001 09:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for LarrySherman  Send Email to LarrySherman     
Angryell,

Funny how things work. I just replaced my transom drain tube today. Mine was in a simalr condition to yours, but was long enough.

BW has a new 2 piece plastic drain tube, 1" inside diameter. I tilded my motor up, and used a 1 1/4 inch hole saw to drill out the old tube. Then I 5200'ed the bejeasus out of the hole and slapped in the new tube. I tightend it with a 3/8 inch rod, with nuts and big washers. Worked great.

I've finished replacing all the tubes, and am hoping to get into the water for the first time in 11 months tomorrw! Wish me luck...

acseatsri posted 08-28-2001 10:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for acseatsri  Send Email to acseatsri     
Will these drain tubes work as replacements in all circumstances? I need to do my transom drain tubes as well. And how did you pilot the hole sawand keep it straight? Thanks in advance.
LarrySherman posted 08-28-2001 10:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for LarrySherman  Send Email to LarrySherman     
They would not work for me in all circumstances (1981 25 Outrage) But were close on most. My lockers are moulded differently than just about any other Outrage I've seen. I think thay may have changed the mould after the first year of production, but thats a guess.

As for then pilot hole, I bought a pack of 1/8 dowels at a craft store, cut the pack in half so all the dowels were about 4" long, then stuffed the existing drain tube with them. Then I pushed in the dowel I wanted to center the hole on and went to town.

I'm pretty proud of that trick....

acseatsri posted 08-29-2001 12:45 AM ET (US)     Profile for acseatsri  Send Email to acseatsri     
Thanks for the tip! I'd be proud too, it was very ingenious!
Angryeel posted 08-29-2001 09:35 AM ET (US)     Profile for Angryeel  Send Email to Angryeel     
Larry, great idea on the dowels, that is what I will do. Sounds like the 2 piece from BW is the way to go. Thanks for the great advice. Good luck getting in the water today! I am hoping to be in on Sunday, but a lot of that is dependant on my mechanic. You must be pretty fired up after 11 months; it has been 3 years for me since I bought the hull and this will be the first time it has seen water and I am getting pretty darn excited.
Thanks again for the help.
Angryeel
70_Katama posted 10-14-2001 12:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for 70_Katama  Send Email to 70_Katama     
(In my drivway) I pulled the plug on my 70 whaler 16'7" whaler today and out came the whole drain tube. The tube is rusted out where it meets with the exterior fitting. The faom is a mess. I never pulled the drain plug before, I always let my automatic pump take care of the water. I plan on attemping to dry out using a small heater and fan to see what the damage to the foam is. Any ideas on how to build up the area inside before replacing the drain tube? I dont like the idea of having a voided area around the transom and drain tube. Any concers I'm over looking, please feel free to comment.

Thank You
Tim

70_Katama posted 10-14-2001 02:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for 70_Katama  Send Email to 70_Katama     
I have the vacume running sucking out the water. Great trick! If west Marine doesen't have the correct tube, I can have one made at a local machine shop.
larimore posted 10-29-2002 04:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for larimore  Send Email to larimore     
70_Katama, Did it look like a whole lot of water soaked in, or just a little ?
Thanks
JimU posted 11-04-2002 11:21 AM ET (US)     Profile for JimU  Send Email to JimU     
In replacing the brass drain tubes I used a trick from my days of reloading rifle ammo. Aneal (soften) the brass with heat. Stand the the drain tube on end in a shallow pan of water leaving an inch or two above the water. Heat the portion of the tube above the water to red hot. Then tip the tube over into the water, cooling it instantly. this softens the brass and makes it much easier to flare using the standard one inch flaring tool. JIM
Outrage18 posted 11-04-2002 05:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for Outrage18  Send Email to Outrage18     
Greetings!
I just had my bow locker drain tube replaced.
Henry Smth at 1st Class Fiberglass in Kingston, MA did the work for $120. I havent seen it yet as I will be picking it up tomorrow. If anyone wants his number I can get it for you. I have no affiliation with shop except to say that Henry is very good at what he does. A true professional and a true Whaler fan.

-Paul

Gep posted 11-05-2002 09:48 AM ET (US)     Profile for Gep  Send Email to Gep     
Outrage 18,
I just saw your pics on your homepage, nice!
This last weekend I pulled everything out of my 1981 Outrage to begin my refurb.
Mike
larimore posted 11-13-2002 11:07 AM ET (US)     Profile for larimore  Send Email to larimore     
Outrage18- Did you have any water intrusion into the foam ?

Thanks

Outrage18 posted 11-20-2002 10:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for Outrage18  Send Email to Outrage18     
There was a little water in there but he said he got "most" of it out.
What that means I dont know...

-Paul

lhg posted 11-21-2002 02:35 AM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
That probably means he let what water he could drain out during the work period. The rest he sealed back in! That's why when I had this done, I removed the tube myself, and let it air dry for about a week before having a dealer install a new one.
dboy posted 11-21-2002 06:25 AM ET (US)     Profile for dboy  Send Email to dboy     
You guys are beating yourself up on these brass tubes. I replaced all of mine and some of a friends in minutes by cutting the thing about 1/2 inch longer than the hull is deep and putting on the o rings and a little 4200 and with a pair of heavy ball peen hammers (one to hold one end and the other to tap) you can tap, tap, tap, a really nice flare on any angle surface just take your time and the brass just rolls over and squeezes the or ring against the surface. It took me about two minutes each to replace the ones in my outrage transom, easy because I could hold both hammers myself. The others will need a helper.

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