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Author Topic:   Battery question

witness posted 08-16-2001 10:13 AM ET (US)
I am considering an overnight trip tommorrow night and wanted to bring an extra battery to run our accessories. We have two big batteries on the 25 outrage and there are two outlets in the CC ffor electric fishing reels. I imagine they are relatively high amp and was wondering if it was possibel to rig something so that a third battery could be connected to one of the outlets in the need to start (in case of an emergency). Also, if i wanted to hook two batteries up to these outlets and run my normal accessories through the boats electrical system, would that be a problem?
(I asked this question in the generral forum at the end of another string, but copied it to here, just because it seemed appropriate).
mike
jimh posted 08-16-2001 07:59 PM ET (US)
Hi Mike,
First, it is a good idea to start a separate thread with a question, unless it is very germane to the original message/question thread. Glad you did so.
As for connecting additional batteries via the connectors at your center console, there are some things to consider.
The outlets at the center console are (or should be) behind a fuse or circuit breaker, so when you try to back-feed the 12-volt distribution buss via these connectors, your battery current will limited by the value of the fuse or circuit breaker.
Also, connecting additional batteries to the main battery distribution will immediately parallel the batteries, resulting in the battery with the lowest voltage dragging down any higher batteries toward its level.
When starting an engine there is a very high current demand, and in most boat wiring there is generally no fuse or circuit breaker in that path at all. Thus, you may experience a tripped circuit breaker or a blown fuse when starting if the starter circuit draws excessive current from the external batteries via there back-feed path.
--jimh
lhg posted 08-16-2001 09:22 PM ET (US)
I doubt if you wil need a third battery, especially if you are using the combination deep cycle/starting batteries for each engine (which you should be). Your "house" power is taken off the starboard battery, so the port battery should remain fairly well charged. I would simply bring along a pair of jumper cables if you are worried about drawing down the starboard battery.
witness posted 08-17-2001 08:58 AM ET (US)
First let me thank you both for your thoughtful insight! I kinda figured that I couldn't do what I proposed due to the limitations on the fuse and the problem with drawing down the other batteries, however, this leads me to my next question, how do those trickle chargers and solar trickle chargers work? And how are they wired? Also, I was trying to think of a way to run a few key assesories, i.e., lights, gps, sounder, radios from the aux. battery, by maybe having them on a switch and making a separate fuse panel so sometimes they draw from the aux. battery through the aux. fuse box and sometimes they draw through the main power. Any input?
mike
Whaletosh posted 08-17-2001 09:06 AM ET (US)
Let me clarify something. I wasn't advocating trying to jump start a boat through the accesory outlets. What I was trying to state was that one could use this method to bring a battery that has just been accidentlally drained back up enough so that it will start the boat. Any one that uses this cable should disconnect it prior to trying to start the disabled boat. Failing to do so may trip the breaker or blow the fuse; unless you don't have these then you risk overheating the wire or jacks. You can't use a small cable like this to jump start a motor.
Using this cable is easy. And many times it only takes a couple of amps for 5 to 10 minutes to bring a battery up enough to allow it to start the motor. Then the alternator on the motor will charge the battery.
This does work. I have twice used small cables to help get somebody started. The last time was one of my co-worker's Taurus. I was driving a rental and didn't have normal jumper cables. I went down to my shop grabbed some 14 gauge wire and a few alligator clips. Five minutes after I clipped all the wires on and let my alternator charge his battery he was able to start his car. The wires never got hot, and I doubt that they passed much more than 5-8 amps of current. This was enought to top off the battery to get his car started.
Sean
LarrySherman posted 08-17-2001 09:16 AM ET (US)
Mike,
When the engine is running, have your battery switch in "Both." When using accessories for long periods, or if you need to leave the boat with the power on, put swich to either 1 or 2, which ever is your "House" battery, most likely 2. when starting your boat, put the switch to 1. Once started, put back to "Both."
This will achieve your desired results, without going to a split bank battery installation with inverters, which is where you were going.
Larry
bigz posted 08-17-2001 10:37 AM ET (US)
Mike with out going in to lengthy detail the Fichts should starting batteries should be separated from the house wiring period.
Standard on these engines is a battery isolator for charging aux house batteries! Check your manual you'll discover that on the upper left side is a separate charging lug for a bank of house batteries --- the main charging system for the engine batteries is on the right side --- read the manual for instructions how to add a separate bank for house!
Lot of dealers didn't and still don't have a clue on the proper set up --- it is also recommended your engine starters have a min. of 675 to 750 CCA rating.
If you have any questions email me. Tom

bigz posted 08-17-2001 10:39 AM ET (US)
remove one "should" --
Tom ;)
witness posted 08-17-2001 10:55 AM ET (US)
Thank you all again!
Tom, I will check that out in my manual tonight. Were lookin' to get into some big tuna, we've done pretty well for being novice this year. I'll let you know what I learn.
Thanks again!
Mike

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Author	Topic: Battery question
witness	posted 08-16-2001 10:13 AM ET (US) I am considering an overnight trip tommorrow night and wanted to bring an extra battery to run our accessories. We have two big batteries on the 25 outrage and there are two outlets in the CC ffor electric fishing reels. I imagine they are relatively high amp and was wondering if it was possibel to rig something so that a third battery could be connected to one of the outlets in the need to start (in case of an emergency). Also, if i wanted to hook two batteries up to these outlets and run my normal accessories through the boats electrical system, would that be a problem? (I asked this question in the generral forum at the end of another string, but copied it to here, just because it seemed appropriate). mike
jimh	posted 08-16-2001 07:59 PM ET (US) Hi Mike, First, it is a good idea to start a separate thread with a question, unless it is very germane to the original message/question thread. Glad you did so. As for connecting additional batteries via the connectors at your center console, there are some things to consider. The outlets at the center console are (or should be) behind a fuse or circuit breaker, so when you try to back-feed the 12-volt distribution buss via these connectors, your battery current will limited by the value of the fuse or circuit breaker. Also, connecting additional batteries to the main battery distribution will immediately parallel the batteries, resulting in the battery with the lowest voltage dragging down any higher batteries toward its level. When starting an engine there is a very high current demand, and in most boat wiring there is generally no fuse or circuit breaker in that path at all. Thus, you may experience a tripped circuit breaker or a blown fuse when starting if the starter circuit draws excessive current from the external batteries via there back-feed path. --jimh
lhg	posted 08-16-2001 09:22 PM ET (US) I doubt if you wil need a third battery, especially if you are using the combination deep cycle/starting batteries for each engine (which you should be). Your "house" power is taken off the starboard battery, so the port battery should remain fairly well charged. I would simply bring along a pair of jumper cables if you are worried about drawing down the starboard battery.
witness	posted 08-17-2001 08:58 AM ET (US) First let me thank you both for your thoughtful insight! I kinda figured that I couldn't do what I proposed due to the limitations on the fuse and the problem with drawing down the other batteries, however, this leads me to my next question, how do those trickle chargers and solar trickle chargers work? And how are they wired? Also, I was trying to think of a way to run a few key assesories, i.e., lights, gps, sounder, radios from the aux. battery, by maybe having them on a switch and making a separate fuse panel so sometimes they draw from the aux. battery through the aux. fuse box and sometimes they draw through the main power. Any input? mike
Whaletosh	posted 08-17-2001 09:06 AM ET (US) Let me clarify something. I wasn't advocating trying to jump start a boat through the accesory outlets. What I was trying to state was that one could use this method to bring a battery that has just been accidentlally drained back up enough so that it will start the boat. Any one that uses this cable should disconnect it prior to trying to start the disabled boat. Failing to do so may trip the breaker or blow the fuse; unless you don't have these then you risk overheating the wire or jacks. You can't use a small cable like this to jump start a motor. Using this cable is easy. And many times it only takes a couple of amps for 5 to 10 minutes to bring a battery up enough to allow it to start the motor. Then the alternator on the motor will charge the battery. This does work. I have twice used small cables to help get somebody started. The last time was one of my co-worker's Taurus. I was driving a rental and didn't have normal jumper cables. I went down to my shop grabbed some 14 gauge wire and a few alligator clips. Five minutes after I clipped all the wires on and let my alternator charge his battery he was able to start his car. The wires never got hot, and I doubt that they passed much more than 5-8 amps of current. This was enought to top off the battery to get his car started. Sean
LarrySherman	posted 08-17-2001 09:16 AM ET (US) Mike, When the engine is running, have your battery switch in "Both." When using accessories for long periods, or if you need to leave the boat with the power on, put swich to either 1 or 2, which ever is your "House" battery, most likely 2. when starting your boat, put the switch to 1. Once started, put back to "Both." This will achieve your desired results, without going to a split bank battery installation with inverters, which is where you were going. Larry
bigz	posted 08-17-2001 10:37 AM ET (US) Mike with out going in to lengthy detail the Fichts should starting batteries should be separated from the house wiring period. Standard on these engines is a battery isolator for charging aux house batteries! Check your manual you'll discover that on the upper left side is a separate charging lug for a bank of house batteries --- the main charging system for the engine batteries is on the right side --- read the manual for instructions how to add a separate bank for house! Lot of dealers didn't and still don't have a clue on the proper set up --- it is also recommended your engine starters have a min. of 675 to 750 CCA rating. If you have any questions email me. Tom
bigz	posted 08-17-2001 10:39 AM ET (US) remove one "should" -- Tom ;)
witness	posted 08-17-2001 10:55 AM ET (US) Thank you all again! Tom, I will check that out in my manual tonight. Were lookin' to get into some big tuna, we've done pretty well for being novice this year. I'll let you know what I learn. Thanks again! Mike