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Author Topic:   Loose Rails

PeteB posted 10-06-2001 12:02 AM ET (US)
The stainless steel rails on my '83 Montauk have become quite loose. I plan on removing the rails so that any moisture will dry out over the winter. Should I drill out each hole (oversize) and fill with West epoxy or glue in a wood dowell, then use a 3M-5200 adhesive to secure the screws so that they don't back out? Has anyone had good luck in re-installing the rails?
JBCornwell posted 10-06-2001 07:27 AM ET (US)
Ahoy, Pete. Read over past posts here on the subject, but to make it short, here is my favorite method.
Drill the holes out to 3/8 or 1/2". Acquire a piece of 1/2" thick Whaleboard, Whalelite, or Richlite.
www.richlite.com
Use a plug cutter to make plugs to match the holes you drilled and epoxy them into the holes about 1/8" below the surface, sealing the tops with epoxy. The Richlite materials will take machine screw threads and hold as well as aluminum.
Reposition your rail base as a guide; drill and tap the plugs for #12 machine screws. Reinstall the rails with the #12 oval head SS machine screws. I haven't had one of these loosen yet.
Red sky at night. . .
JB :)
dgp posted 10-06-2001 07:50 AM ET (US)
JB, where are you buying the Whaleboard? I t/t the factory and they are not set up with distribution nor sell retail.
JBCornwell posted 10-06-2001 08:45 AM ET (US)
I cheated, DGP. I called Richlite and asked for some samples. What they sent me was enough to make about 2 dozen plugs. You can Email tami@richlite.com and ask for samples. They will also send you a catalog and price list. Really very good stuff.
Red sky at night. . .
JB :)
noswah posted 10-06-2001 05:38 PM ET (US)

My wife has a white nylon cutting board in the kitchen that I've been eyeing to use on a similar project, any thoughts, could this be used for plugs, etc?
JBCornwell posted 10-06-2001 07:28 PM ET (US)
I have used those nylon boards for backing plates and interfaces, Noswah, but I haven't gotten them to hold a screw or stick well to epoxy.
Too bad. They are cheap and easy to work.
Red sky at night. . .
JB :)
waagdiver posted 10-15-2001 09:01 PM ET (US)
Does the fix described by JBCornwell work when the gunnels are just thin fiberglass with foam underneath? I have a similar problem, but there is just not enough material to work with. I was thinking about putting in some backing material under the railing base, but couldn't think of a nonintrusive way to do so. I'm restoring a 19' Outrage 1978 that has been abused. The bow railing has 8 posts (4 on each side); the front 2 are screwed into solid material, but the back 2 on each side only have the thin fiberglass and foam to work with. Ideas?
JBCornwell posted 10-15-2001 11:32 PM ET (US)
Wow, Waagdiver, that's a tough one. Could that be the way BW originally built it? I don't think whaleboard plugs epoxied to foam would work any better than just foam.
I might try to epoxy a 1/4" strip of whaleboard along the top of the gunnel, glass over it, gelcoat it and screw to that, or rout a channel in the top edge of the gunnel, epoxy a strip of whaleboard in that and glass over it, then screw into that.
Maybe some of our colleagues who have restored several boats have some better ideas than that.
Good luck.
Red sky at night. . .
JB :)
Tom W Clark posted 10-16-2001 12:25 AM ET (US)
waagdiver,
I suggest you use the Whaler backing plates for rails. They go on the outside of the hull and "sandwich" the hull along with the rail mount on the inside. Stainless steel machine screws connect the two pieces of hardare. These are standard on most newer Montauks with bow rails.
TightPenny posted 10-16-2001 11:17 AM ET (US)
The backing plates have been elliminated by Whaler. My 2000 Montauk does not have them.
They were only held in place with #10 screws. Totally inadequate. Whaler has replaced them with 1/4" machine screws, tapped into the whaleboard. This was done under warranty.

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Author	Topic: Loose Rails
PeteB	posted 10-06-2001 12:02 AM ET (US) The stainless steel rails on my '83 Montauk have become quite loose. I plan on removing the rails so that any moisture will dry out over the winter. Should I drill out each hole (oversize) and fill with West epoxy or glue in a wood dowell, then use a 3M-5200 adhesive to secure the screws so that they don't back out? Has anyone had good luck in re-installing the rails?
JBCornwell	posted 10-06-2001 07:27 AM ET (US) Ahoy, Pete. Read over past posts here on the subject, but to make it short, here is my favorite method. Drill the holes out to 3/8 or 1/2". Acquire a piece of 1/2" thick Whaleboard, Whalelite, or Richlite. www.richlite.com Use a plug cutter to make plugs to match the holes you drilled and epoxy them into the holes about 1/8" below the surface, sealing the tops with epoxy. The Richlite materials will take machine screw threads and hold as well as aluminum. Reposition your rail base as a guide; drill and tap the plugs for #12 machine screws. Reinstall the rails with the #12 oval head SS machine screws. I haven't had one of these loosen yet. Red sky at night. . . JB :)
dgp	posted 10-06-2001 07:50 AM ET (US) JB, where are you buying the Whaleboard? I t/t the factory and they are not set up with distribution nor sell retail.
JBCornwell	posted 10-06-2001 08:45 AM ET (US) I cheated, DGP. I called Richlite and asked for some samples. What they sent me was enough to make about 2 dozen plugs. You can Email tami@richlite.com and ask for samples. They will also send you a catalog and price list. Really very good stuff. Red sky at night. . . JB :)
noswah	posted 10-06-2001 05:38 PM ET (US) My wife has a white nylon cutting board in the kitchen that I've been eyeing to use on a similar project, any thoughts, could this be used for plugs, etc?
JBCornwell	posted 10-06-2001 07:28 PM ET (US) I have used those nylon boards for backing plates and interfaces, Noswah, but I haven't gotten them to hold a screw or stick well to epoxy. Too bad. They are cheap and easy to work. Red sky at night. . . JB :)
waagdiver	posted 10-15-2001 09:01 PM ET (US) Does the fix described by JBCornwell work when the gunnels are just thin fiberglass with foam underneath? I have a similar problem, but there is just not enough material to work with. I was thinking about putting in some backing material under the railing base, but couldn't think of a nonintrusive way to do so. I'm restoring a 19' Outrage 1978 that has been abused. The bow railing has 8 posts (4 on each side); the front 2 are screwed into solid material, but the back 2 on each side only have the thin fiberglass and foam to work with. Ideas?
JBCornwell	posted 10-15-2001 11:32 PM ET (US) Wow, Waagdiver, that's a tough one. Could that be the way BW originally built it? I don't think whaleboard plugs epoxied to foam would work any better than just foam. I might try to epoxy a 1/4" strip of whaleboard along the top of the gunnel, glass over it, gelcoat it and screw to that, or rout a channel in the top edge of the gunnel, epoxy a strip of whaleboard in that and glass over it, then screw into that. Maybe some of our colleagues who have restored several boats have some better ideas than that. Good luck. Red sky at night. . . JB :)
Tom W Clark	posted 10-16-2001 12:25 AM ET (US) waagdiver, I suggest you use the Whaler backing plates for rails. They go on the outside of the hull and "sandwich" the hull along with the rail mount on the inside. Stainless steel machine screws connect the two pieces of hardare. These are standard on most newer Montauks with bow rails.
TightPenny	posted 10-16-2001 11:17 AM ET (US) The backing plates have been elliminated by Whaler. My 2000 Montauk does not have them. They were only held in place with #10 screws. Totally inadequate. Whaler has replaced them with 1/4" machine screws, tapped into the whaleboard. This was done under warranty.