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Author Topic:   Rebuilding old motor vs purchasing new.

Landlocked posted 12-14-2001 11:10 AM ET (US)
With the temporary windfall from the sale of my old home quickly going for such things as new appliances and kitchen cabinets - I'm beginning to question whether or not that new motor for my montauk is really going to happen this year.
What opinions are out there on rebuilding old motors rather than purchasing a new one. I'm considering putting a couple of thousand dollars into my 78 Johnson 85 and see how long I can make it last... New carb, coils, seals/gaskets, rings etc. Whatever I can get for the money I have to spend.
Just looking for opinions experiences. I see a lot of discussion on purchasing new but don't hear alot of people talking about fixing old ones. Are outboards by nature more "disposable" than other types of engines? I rebuilt the motor in my old Chevy @ 120,000 and got 250,000 miles out of it before I traded. My wifes Explorer got a rebuilt motor at 100,000 miles and purrs like a kitten a year later.
Ll.
JohnAz posted 12-14-2001 11:36 AM ET (US)
If you can do the labor yourself,,,that makes a big $$ difference...I have an 20 year old 40 OMC, that does everything a new one does,,except the bank payments,,there are 3 boats, living at my house, and none were new when they moved in,,,
JBCornwell posted 12-14-2001 11:48 AM ET (US)
Ahoy, Landlocked.
If your engine were newer technology, I would say rebuild; but it isn't. It is crossflow scavenged and it has magneto ignition.
A better investment of a couple of grand is a used loop scavenged engine with modern electronic ignition and better hydrodynamics in the foot.
Remember that your '78 engine was rated at the crank, not the prop. At the prop it is probably between 75 & 80.
If you can find a good used Johnnyrude 60 degree 90 HP looper or a Yamaha 3 cyl. 90 for your 2 grand I think you will be far ahead of rebuilding the old warhorse.
Good luck.
Red sky at night. . .
JB :)
Landlocked posted 12-14-2001 02:15 PM ET (US)
Thanks John/JB
I think with a good manual and plenty of time I could probably manage the work myself with the exception of milling/boring but I just don't have a "clean/dry" place to work would probably go to a shop.
I have shopped quite a bit for a used motor to no avail around here. In fact I have a good 140hp Johnson off my old outrage that I can't even find a buyer for here - everyone thinks new is the only way to go.
Any suggestions as to trustworthy dealers on the net? Must admit, I'm a little nervous about Ebay and not knowing the person I'm dealing with.
Can I really expect to find a good motor for 2,000 - 2,500?
One other aside - I went up and talked to a dealer about a "left over" 2001 Honda last weekend. He told me he wouldn't put a 75 or 90 on my montauk and that a 50 was all I needed and if I didn't want that he couldn't help me. He also said my existing Morse control wouldn't work. His approach kind of turned me off. I know the bigger motors are heavier than desired, but shouldn't that be my choice?
Ll.
Bigshot posted 12-14-2001 02:15 PM ET (US)
with JB FULLY on that one. Does it run? If so keep running it and start saving. If it is dead, bury it. I can get a new one for you for under $5k, why spend half on a motor that burns twice the fuel, etc. Keep your eyes peeled for a mid 90's for about $3k. Plus there will be no resale and you will always want a new one. Wait till you feel how fast a new engine is over that 78.
Bigshot posted 12-14-2001 02:17 PM ET (US)
heck put that 140 on there. Those old 140's are maybe 110hp.
JBCornwell posted 12-14-2001 02:40 PM ET (US)
Well, Landlocked, You've got our attention.
The Honda dealer: The 75/90 is too heavy for a Montauk.. .would porpoise you to death. He just didn't want to admit it. He is correct that a Montauk will perform surprizingly well with a 50 4 stroke. Any one of several EFI 4 strokes would do well. Find one for under 5 big ones? Good luck.
The 140 is also too heavy, as well as being a naughty on rated HP.
An excellent match for a Montauk is a 3 cyl OMC 70. It would be faster than your "85" because of being rated at the prop and having a much better foot design. They are available at very reasonable prices.
Red sky at night. . .
JB :)
Landlocked posted 12-14-2001 03:15 PM ET (US)
Glad someone will give me some time JB.... I tried to talk to the Honda guy about the things I had learned on this site about optimal motors - some guys running 90's etc but once he found out it was from a website he blew it off - Don't think I'll go back.
Anyhow - Keep your eyes open for me Bigshot -if you see a good deal let me know . You know most of the specifics about my boat from all our discussions this summer. Seems like you have a lot more contacts than me.
Chris.
Bigshot posted 12-14-2001 03:28 PM ET (US)
Where you at man? I have a line on a 2001 Merc 90 4 stroke in Ohio for $4950. Under 5 hours use and full warranty from dealer(Demo). They will ship for $250 or under and no tax. Look at E-Bay, etc. Hell I would sell you my 1990/98 90Yamagucci but she is running puuurrrrfect now. Place near me has a 98 85hp Zuki 2 stroke(new) $4600. You want deals, do like me and do searches on the net. canada has GREAT deals and the route I might go being a 1.62 conversion. 2001 Honda 90's for $4938(with controls) but more like $400 to ship(to FL).
Landlocked posted 12-14-2001 04:12 PM ET (US)
I'm in Nashville, Tennessee - hence the name Landlocked.
That Merc 90 sounds real interesting - Ohio isn't too far to go to pick-up. Does the Merc 4 weigh significantly less than the Honda Would?
Chris -
By the way @ work right now so If I disappear for a while here and there - the boss walked in.
JBCornwell posted 12-14-2001 11:06 PM ET (US)
Hey, Landlocked! Just came from another forum where I got a report that Dockside Marine, in Sarasota, FL is dumping new 1999 OMCs engines for about half of MSRP.
That is Johnsons and Evinrudes. One price I remember was a 70 for under $3K.
Why? I suspect it is because Bombardier has not agreed to honor OMC warrantys before 2000.
Worth looking into.
Red sky at night. . .
JB :)
Landlocked posted 12-15-2001 12:25 AM ET (US)
Thanks JB! I'll see what I can find out.
Chris.
lhg posted 12-15-2001 05:26 PM ET (US)
Also, about 700 previous OMC dealers have been terminated by Bombardier, so they're dumping what they have left. Only buy a conventional 2 or 4 stroke(by Suzuki). I would take a pass on a 1999 Ficht.
Plan on spending some extra money for an aftermarket warranty, if you can get one.
maverick posted 12-16-2001 05:44 AM ET (US)
Just a footnote on the newer 60 degree 90 Johnson - I helped a friend check his waterpump on one (a 1999). A real pain. We could barely, after MUCH trouble, release the shifter linkage under the carburetor. Very tough to reach in and get to it, perhaps there's a trick to it, but we didn't see it. If the carbs weren't there, not bad, but to take them off, NOT. About 4 hours later, I was glad to get it back together and done. I wouldn't buy one for that reason, and I really like OMC 90s. Consider maintenance when buying. My Johnson 150 (1998) is not a problem to change waterpumps. Best, Mav
David Ratusnik posted 12-16-2001 08:19 PM ET (US)
Landlocked- Some new/old stock OMC/Bomb seems available at Dusky Sport Center-South FLA. Dania, FLA Seem to be dumping???David
fgb posted 12-16-2001 09:01 PM ET (US)
Check out this site for outboards. WWW.edsmarinesuperstore.com
Bigshot posted 12-17-2001 10:35 AM ET (US)
To get at that bolt you have to split the case(2 bolts). Then it is cake to get at.
Landlocked posted 12-17-2001 10:50 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the lead David, I emailed them this evening.
Ll
Bigshot posted 12-18-2001 10:07 AM ET (US)
Landlocked I got their only 70hp 4 stroke. They have no other motors for a Montauk in the Sarasota joint. For you 18's out there. Ficht 115's for $3500 in 25" shaft.

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Author	Topic: Rebuilding old motor vs purchasing new.
Landlocked	posted 12-14-2001 11:10 AM ET (US) With the temporary windfall from the sale of my old home quickly going for such things as new appliances and kitchen cabinets - I'm beginning to question whether or not that new motor for my montauk is really going to happen this year. What opinions are out there on rebuilding old motors rather than purchasing a new one. I'm considering putting a couple of thousand dollars into my 78 Johnson 85 and see how long I can make it last... New carb, coils, seals/gaskets, rings etc. Whatever I can get for the money I have to spend. Just looking for opinions experiences. I see a lot of discussion on purchasing new but don't hear alot of people talking about fixing old ones. Are outboards by nature more "disposable" than other types of engines? I rebuilt the motor in my old Chevy @ 120,000 and got 250,000 miles out of it before I traded. My wifes Explorer got a rebuilt motor at 100,000 miles and purrs like a kitten a year later. Ll.
JohnAz	posted 12-14-2001 11:36 AM ET (US) If you can do the labor yourself,,,that makes a big $$ difference...I have an 20 year old 40 OMC, that does everything a new one does,,except the bank payments,,there are 3 boats, living at my house, and none were new when they moved in,,,
JBCornwell	posted 12-14-2001 11:48 AM ET (US) Ahoy, Landlocked. If your engine were newer technology, I would say rebuild; but it isn't. It is crossflow scavenged and it has magneto ignition. A better investment of a couple of grand is a used loop scavenged engine with modern electronic ignition and better hydrodynamics in the foot. Remember that your '78 engine was rated at the crank, not the prop. At the prop it is probably between 75 & 80. If you can find a good used Johnnyrude 60 degree 90 HP looper or a Yamaha 3 cyl. 90 for your 2 grand I think you will be far ahead of rebuilding the old warhorse. Good luck. Red sky at night. . . JB :)
Landlocked	posted 12-14-2001 02:15 PM ET (US) Thanks John/JB I think with a good manual and plenty of time I could probably manage the work myself with the exception of milling/boring but I just don't have a "clean/dry" place to work would probably go to a shop. I have shopped quite a bit for a used motor to no avail around here. In fact I have a good 140hp Johnson off my old outrage that I can't even find a buyer for here - everyone thinks new is the only way to go. Any suggestions as to trustworthy dealers on the net? Must admit, I'm a little nervous about Ebay and not knowing the person I'm dealing with. Can I really expect to find a good motor for 2,000 - 2,500? One other aside - I went up and talked to a dealer about a "left over" 2001 Honda last weekend. He told me he wouldn't put a 75 or 90 on my montauk and that a 50 was all I needed and if I didn't want that he couldn't help me. He also said my existing Morse control wouldn't work. His approach kind of turned me off. I know the bigger motors are heavier than desired, but shouldn't that be my choice? Ll.
Bigshot	posted 12-14-2001 02:15 PM ET (US) with JB FULLY on that one. Does it run? If so keep running it and start saving. If it is dead, bury it. I can get a new one for you for under $5k, why spend half on a motor that burns twice the fuel, etc. Keep your eyes peeled for a mid 90's for about $3k. Plus there will be no resale and you will always want a new one. Wait till you feel how fast a new engine is over that 78.
Bigshot	posted 12-14-2001 02:17 PM ET (US) heck put that 140 on there. Those old 140's are maybe 110hp.
JBCornwell	posted 12-14-2001 02:40 PM ET (US) Well, Landlocked, You've got our attention. The Honda dealer: The 75/90 is too heavy for a Montauk.. .would porpoise you to death. He just didn't want to admit it. He is correct that a Montauk will perform surprizingly well with a 50 4 stroke. Any one of several EFI 4 strokes would do well. Find one for under 5 big ones? Good luck. The 140 is also too heavy, as well as being a naughty on rated HP. An excellent match for a Montauk is a 3 cyl OMC 70. It would be faster than your "85" because of being rated at the prop and having a much better foot design. They are available at very reasonable prices. Red sky at night. . . JB :)
Landlocked	posted 12-14-2001 03:15 PM ET (US) Glad someone will give me some time JB.... I tried to talk to the Honda guy about the things I had learned on this site about optimal motors - some guys running 90's etc but once he found out it was from a website he blew it off - Don't think I'll go back. Anyhow - Keep your eyes open for me Bigshot -if you see a good deal let me know . You know most of the specifics about my boat from all our discussions this summer. Seems like you have a lot more contacts than me. Chris.
Bigshot	posted 12-14-2001 03:28 PM ET (US) Where you at man? I have a line on a 2001 Merc 90 4 stroke in Ohio for $4950. Under 5 hours use and full warranty from dealer(Demo). They will ship for $250 or under and no tax. Look at E-Bay, etc. Hell I would sell you my 1990/98 90Yamagucci but she is running puuurrrrfect now. Place near me has a 98 85hp Zuki 2 stroke(new) $4600. You want deals, do like me and do searches on the net. canada has GREAT deals and the route I might go being a 1.62 conversion. 2001 Honda 90's for $4938(with controls) but more like $400 to ship(to FL).
Landlocked	posted 12-14-2001 04:12 PM ET (US) I'm in Nashville, Tennessee - hence the name Landlocked. That Merc 90 sounds real interesting - Ohio isn't too far to go to pick-up. Does the Merc 4 weigh significantly less than the Honda Would? Chris - By the way @ work right now so If I disappear for a while here and there - the boss walked in.
JBCornwell	posted 12-14-2001 11:06 PM ET (US) Hey, Landlocked! Just came from another forum where I got a report that Dockside Marine, in Sarasota, FL is dumping new 1999 OMCs engines for about half of MSRP. That is Johnsons and Evinrudes. One price I remember was a 70 for under $3K. Why? I suspect it is because Bombardier has not agreed to honor OMC warrantys before 2000. Worth looking into. Red sky at night. . . JB :)
Landlocked	posted 12-15-2001 12:25 AM ET (US) Thanks JB! I'll see what I can find out. Chris.
lhg	posted 12-15-2001 05:26 PM ET (US) Also, about 700 previous OMC dealers have been terminated by Bombardier, so they're dumping what they have left. Only buy a conventional 2 or 4 stroke(by Suzuki). I would take a pass on a 1999 Ficht. Plan on spending some extra money for an aftermarket warranty, if you can get one.
maverick	posted 12-16-2001 05:44 AM ET (US) Just a footnote on the newer 60 degree 90 Johnson - I helped a friend check his waterpump on one (a 1999). A real pain. We could barely, after MUCH trouble, release the shifter linkage under the carburetor. Very tough to reach in and get to it, perhaps there's a trick to it, but we didn't see it. If the carbs weren't there, not bad, but to take them off, NOT. About 4 hours later, I was glad to get it back together and done. I wouldn't buy one for that reason, and I really like OMC 90s. Consider maintenance when buying. My Johnson 150 (1998) is not a problem to change waterpumps. Best, Mav
David Ratusnik	posted 12-16-2001 08:19 PM ET (US) Landlocked- Some new/old stock OMC/Bomb seems available at Dusky Sport Center-South FLA. Dania, FLA Seem to be dumping???David
fgb	posted 12-16-2001 09:01 PM ET (US) Check out this site for outboards. WWW.edsmarinesuperstore.com
Bigshot	posted 12-17-2001 10:35 AM ET (US) To get at that bolt you have to split the case(2 bolts). Then it is cake to get at.
Landlocked	posted 12-17-2001 10:50 PM ET (US) Thanks for the lead David, I emailed them this evening. Ll
Bigshot	posted 12-18-2001 10:07 AM ET (US) Landlocked I got their only 70hp 4 stroke. They have no other motors for a Montauk in the Sarasota joint. For you 18's out there. Ficht 115's for $3500 in 25" shaft.