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trainer posted 01-24-2002 07:59 PM ET (US)
While refinishing the wood in my 89 SS 15 I noticed some water seeping or collecting in the screw holes from the console base (all wood is out of boat and in the carport looking better with each coat of varnish). I have drilled out all old repairs in the deck to 1/4 inch and was getting ready to repair with marine-tex when I discovered water standing in most of the holes (repairs are from previous owner, gas tank tie downs and what not). Old repairs were made with straight resin, no filler or glass and it looks like no sanding. They did not seem watertight.
I have used a heat lamp to dry as well as a shop vac. There is no longer any standing water, however a q-tip inserted into holes comes out saturated.
QUESTION: Would it be recommended to drill a hole in the bottom at the lowest point to further drain?
The boat has been out of the water 5 weeks. That is a long time here in FL.
bc posted 01-24-2002 10:22 PM ET (US)
Funny you mentioned this with the 15. I just finished filling the same type of holes on my '81 15'er. (gas tank tie downs and so forth) Mine did not seep any water though. You could try one hole and see what comes out. Good luck with your project, mine been slow going, but about to finish up.
LarrySherman posted 01-24-2002 11:08 PM ET (US)
This is one of those unfortunate problems that require time and effort to repair well. If you search back in this forum looking for "water|foam|saturate|thru-hulls" and the like, you will find all the information you need. however, you proably want the anser now, so...
You must dry out the hull. Drill a hole in the bottom, near the aft end of the keel, tilt the boat up enough to ensure the water will rin in that direction. Connect a vaccume pump or shop-vac to the hole. You can also use a propane fired heater to raise the temp of the hull (do not go above 115F!).
Once you get no more water, wait a few days and try again. You will probably get dome more. then when it's really all gone, you put an allen wrench in your drill chuck, and remove the wet/soggy/moist foam in the area under the hole in the floor of your boat. You can then inject new foam, and repair with glass and gelcoat.
This can take a long time (3-12 months), and my not be necessary. I am of the belief that most whalers do in fact have some water in the hull, and that it does not present a problem, in general, unless it is compounded by other problems - in your case, the need to effectively repair the deck of your 15.
The quick/dirty way to repair your problem would be to skip the whole drying part, and just go to the foam and glass repair part. The key here is to create a dry and clean area to apply your rpair to. New foam should do that. I would also use epoxy instead of marine tex or fibreglass, but that's just me.
Hope this helps, Larry

stinkyB posted 01-25-2002 03:05 PM ET (US)
I've been fixing up a '65 17' and it's my 1st boat. I cut open soft spots to repair & There was a bit of water in the foam. I removed the soft soggy stuff, filled & reglassed. On a whim I drilled 2 holes in the bottom towards the stern & quite a bit of water came out, and has been sitting for a few months. I recently tried to get some out w/ the shop-vac, and none came out, so it turned out to be a good move.
Chesapeake posted 01-25-2002 03:56 PM ET (US)
Larry:
How large of a hole do you drill into the bottom? How close to the transom wall?
I have some de-lamination on the the very top of the transom and thought it might be a good idea to test how much water is in the hull.
By the way, what kind of foam do you inject?
Best,
Bob
LarrySherman posted 01-25-2002 04:29 PM ET (US)
The transom and the foam core are seperate. Water in the transom should not translate into water in the foam, and visa versa.
For the hole, I'd to a 1/4 at first. The smaller it is, the eaiser it is to repair (I repaired mine by first injecting the hole with epoxy, than inserting 1/4 oak dowels dipped in epoxy, which I countersunk about 1 1/16-1/8 of an inch. I then build up the countersink with epoxy and barrier coat. Seems to work so far.)

For the location, every boat is different, but mine was about 10-12" in from the transom. I estimated with a stick from the inside, and erring towards the bow, I poped a hole. I don't think you have to be all the way to the back to achieve the desired effect. Within say 6-8" should be fine. Better safe then sorry here.

The foam is a closed cell linear polyureathane. I have not had to buy any, so I don't have a brand name...sorry.

Larry
JoeH posted 01-27-2002 07:24 PM ET (US)
Chesapeake,I too have some de-lamination across the top, aft edge of my 19-Outrage. How did you/do you plan to repair it? Do you have any clue as to it's cause? Mine runs from the starboard edge of the main motor mount, under the kicker (mounted to starboard) and I wonder if an issue with the kicker mounting, an impact, trailering etc. may have caused it. Thank you, Joe
Chesapeake posted 01-28-2002 03:14 PM ET (US)
Joe:
I have a hint. My delamination has occured at the seam were the internal gelcoat (light blue) meets the external gelcoat (white) on the top of the transom. A few inches below this area is where the kicker motor stand is through-bolted onto the transom. The more I look at it, the more I believe that the motor mount was probably over-torqued when it was applied and that it stressed out the seam.
My plans for repair (2nd time) are straightforward. Last time (1993) I just patched with some Marine-tex. It work ok, but eventually cracked out. Since that time I have become something of a West Epoxy junkie. My plan is this. Mix a batch of West Epoxy and inject it into the crack until it fills the void. I will stop when it takes no more unthicked epoxy. The epoxy will likely settle and some will be absorbed into the wood of the transom. Fine.
When the epoxy dries, I expect the void will look like one of two things. Either there will 1) not be much void and I can still see the epoxy I injected with the small guage syringe; or 2) it will look like I did nothing as the epoxy will have been "absorbed." If it looks like the former, I will gring a little bit and patch the repair with a little spectrun gel-coat repair kit. If it looks like the latter, I will inject more epoxy, this time with a little bit of filler. Then I will do the gelcoat repair. That's my plan.
Bob W. (Chesapeake)
Chesapeake posted 01-28-2002 03:18 PM ET (US)
In case you don't understand, gring also means grind for those of us that are poor typists.
JoeH posted 01-28-2002 05:40 PM ET (US)
Bob, that sounds about like the way I planned to aproach it. Would you please let me know how it turns out? I can't do anything until the weather breaks (for good, 56 deg. right now) as the boat fills the garage with only inches to spare. Thank you, Joe
Chesapeake posted 01-28-2002 05:44 PM ET (US)
Joe:
This is an April project for me. I won't get the boat out of storage here in Chicago until then.
trainer posted 02-02-2002 11:57 AM ET (US)
Good news. I drilled a hole in the bottom of hull near the keel and no water has drained out. The water in the deck where the repairs are to be made must be localized to the screw holes only. Now to mix up the Marine-tex and start the repairs.

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Author	Topic: water in hull
trainer	posted 01-24-2002 07:59 PM ET (US) While refinishing the wood in my 89 SS 15 I noticed some water seeping or collecting in the screw holes from the console base (all wood is out of boat and in the carport looking better with each coat of varnish). I have drilled out all old repairs in the deck to 1/4 inch and was getting ready to repair with marine-tex when I discovered water standing in most of the holes (repairs are from previous owner, gas tank tie downs and what not). Old repairs were made with straight resin, no filler or glass and it looks like no sanding. They did not seem watertight. I have used a heat lamp to dry as well as a shop vac. There is no longer any standing water, however a q-tip inserted into holes comes out saturated. QUESTION: Would it be recommended to drill a hole in the bottom at the lowest point to further drain? The boat has been out of the water 5 weeks. That is a long time here in FL.
bc	posted 01-24-2002 10:22 PM ET (US) Funny you mentioned this with the 15. I just finished filling the same type of holes on my '81 15'er. (gas tank tie downs and so forth) Mine did not seep any water though. You could try one hole and see what comes out. Good luck with your project, mine been slow going, but about to finish up.
LarrySherman	posted 01-24-2002 11:08 PM ET (US) This is one of those unfortunate problems that require time and effort to repair well. If you search back in this forum looking for "water\|foam\|saturate\|thru-hulls" and the like, you will find all the information you need. however, you proably want the anser now, so... You must dry out the hull. Drill a hole in the bottom, near the aft end of the keel, tilt the boat up enough to ensure the water will rin in that direction. Connect a vaccume pump or shop-vac to the hole. You can also use a propane fired heater to raise the temp of the hull (do not go above 115F!). Once you get no more water, wait a few days and try again. You will probably get dome more. then when it's really all gone, you put an allen wrench in your drill chuck, and remove the wet/soggy/moist foam in the area under the hole in the floor of your boat. You can then inject new foam, and repair with glass and gelcoat. This can take a long time (3-12 months), and my not be necessary. I am of the belief that most whalers do in fact have some water in the hull, and that it does not present a problem, in general, unless it is compounded by other problems - in your case, the need to effectively repair the deck of your 15. The quick/dirty way to repair your problem would be to skip the whole drying part, and just go to the foam and glass repair part. The key here is to create a dry and clean area to apply your rpair to. New foam should do that. I would also use epoxy instead of marine tex or fibreglass, but that's just me. Hope this helps, Larry
stinkyB	posted 01-25-2002 03:05 PM ET (US) I've been fixing up a '65 17' and it's my 1st boat. I cut open soft spots to repair & There was a bit of water in the foam. I removed the soft soggy stuff, filled & reglassed. On a whim I drilled 2 holes in the bottom towards the stern & quite a bit of water came out, and has been sitting for a few months. I recently tried to get some out w/ the shop-vac, and none came out, so it turned out to be a good move.
Chesapeake	posted 01-25-2002 03:56 PM ET (US) Larry: How large of a hole do you drill into the bottom? How close to the transom wall? I have some de-lamination on the the very top of the transom and thought it might be a good idea to test how much water is in the hull. By the way, what kind of foam do you inject? Best, Bob
LarrySherman	posted 01-25-2002 04:29 PM ET (US) The transom and the foam core are seperate. Water in the transom should not translate into water in the foam, and visa versa. For the hole, I'd to a 1/4 at first. The smaller it is, the eaiser it is to repair (I repaired mine by first injecting the hole with epoxy, than inserting 1/4 oak dowels dipped in epoxy, which I countersunk about 1 1/16-1/8 of an inch. I then build up the countersink with epoxy and barrier coat. Seems to work so far.) For the location, every boat is different, but mine was about 10-12" in from the transom. I estimated with a stick from the inside, and erring towards the bow, I poped a hole. I don't think you have to be all the way to the back to achieve the desired effect. Within say 6-8" should be fine. Better safe then sorry here. The foam is a closed cell linear polyureathane. I have not had to buy any, so I don't have a brand name...sorry. Larry
JoeH	posted 01-27-2002 07:24 PM ET (US) Chesapeake,I too have some de-lamination across the top, aft edge of my 19-Outrage. How did you/do you plan to repair it? Do you have any clue as to it's cause? Mine runs from the starboard edge of the main motor mount, under the kicker (mounted to starboard) and I wonder if an issue with the kicker mounting, an impact, trailering etc. may have caused it. Thank you, Joe
Chesapeake	posted 01-28-2002 03:14 PM ET (US) Joe: I have a hint. My delamination has occured at the seam were the internal gelcoat (light blue) meets the external gelcoat (white) on the top of the transom. A few inches below this area is where the kicker motor stand is through-bolted onto the transom. The more I look at it, the more I believe that the motor mount was probably over-torqued when it was applied and that it stressed out the seam. My plans for repair (2nd time) are straightforward. Last time (1993) I just patched with some Marine-tex. It work ok, but eventually cracked out. Since that time I have become something of a West Epoxy junkie. My plan is this. Mix a batch of West Epoxy and inject it into the crack until it fills the void. I will stop when it takes no more unthicked epoxy. The epoxy will likely settle and some will be absorbed into the wood of the transom. Fine. When the epoxy dries, I expect the void will look like one of two things. Either there will 1) not be much void and I can still see the epoxy I injected with the small guage syringe; or 2) it will look like I did nothing as the epoxy will have been "absorbed." If it looks like the former, I will gring a little bit and patch the repair with a little spectrun gel-coat repair kit. If it looks like the latter, I will inject more epoxy, this time with a little bit of filler. Then I will do the gelcoat repair. That's my plan. Bob W. (Chesapeake)
Chesapeake	posted 01-28-2002 03:18 PM ET (US) In case you don't understand, gring also means grind for those of us that are poor typists.
JoeH	posted 01-28-2002 05:40 PM ET (US) Bob, that sounds about like the way I planned to aproach it. Would you please let me know how it turns out? I can't do anything until the weather breaks (for good, 56 deg. right now) as the boat fills the garage with only inches to spare. Thank you, Joe
Chesapeake	posted 01-28-2002 05:44 PM ET (US) Joe: This is an April project for me. I won't get the boat out of storage here in Chicago until then.
trainer	posted 02-02-2002 11:57 AM ET (US) Good news. I drilled a hole in the bottom of hull near the keel and no water has drained out. The water in the deck where the repairs are to be made must be localized to the screw holes only. Now to mix up the Marine-tex and start the repairs.