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Author Topic:   Epoxy barrier on teak

ratherwhalering posted 01-28-2002 12:57 PM ET (US)
A friend recommended I coat the backs of my teak console trim, the bottom of my forward hatch cover, and the bottom of the cooler chocks with epoxy before I varnish, to create a water barrier. Does anyone have any experience with this?
OutrageMan posted 01-28-2002 02:25 PM ET (US)
Although it can't hurt, I am not sure you need to do this.
ratherwhalering posted 01-28-2002 02:28 PM ET (US)
I didn't think so either, I think the varnish will create an adequate barrier, but I thought I'd ask if anyone else does this.
sorcerer posted 01-28-2002 02:40 PM ET (US)
This technique is used in numerous applications where the underside wood will be exposed to moisture and will dry very slowly.
You can just varnish the underside which will produce the same sealing effect. No need for epoxy.
In other words by coating the back you limit moisture migration to the top surface which is sealed and subjected to faster drying times. This in it self will prolong your top varnish life. Common cause of surface flaking.
JFM posted 01-28-2002 03:09 PM ET (US)
Teak is a wood that likes to breath and is a natural oily wood. When you seal it differn't things can happen when the oil wants to escape. It can push the finsh out, check, split, etc.. I know many members varnish teak, but I don't think "Mother Nature" intended it to be. I think that teak looks nice varnished, but I'll never do it. I'll just keep oiling mine. The teak I see that has been around a long time seems to like to be left alone. Regards, Jay
kamml posted 01-28-2002 06:49 PM ET (US)
I agree with Jay, I have been oiling mine and they look fine. When they grey out a little, a little oil on a shop rag and they look good again. Save the varnish and the rest of the hard work, use oil. BTW, I use linseed, it gives a rich yellow grain and hardens to a soft weather proof/resistant patina. Ken
dfmcintyre posted 01-31-2002 04:40 PM ET (US)
In this months issue of a periodical published by the WEST Epoxy system folks, was an article that addressed this issue.
Very interesting, and you should try and obtain a copy.
don
LarrySherman posted 01-31-2002 04:55 PM ET (US)
I re-built my fire extinguisher box from 1/4 and 3/8 teak ply that I coated with epoxy on the finish side. I also used epoxy to put it together. I came out fairly well. It is very tough to get a bubble free epoxy coat in uncontrolled atomspheric conditions though. Humidity causes amin blush, and temp changes cause the wood to out gass, which leads to pinhole sized bubbles in your work.
I would not recommend it for your trim.
Arch Autenreith posted 01-31-2002 05:28 PM ET (US)
Larry.
I don't know if you are using West System but my recollection is that the epoxy can't stand by itself and therefore needs a UV block like varnish or paint. Just curious, did you use either? (I'm too lazy to scroung around for the manuals to make sure about the UV.)
Arch
LarrySherman posted 01-31-2002 05:56 PM ET (US)
Nope, I waxed it. Live and learn. I'll let you know how it holds up. So far 1 season in the sun, and no problems.
Chesapeake posted 02-01-2002 02:46 PM ET (US)
Arch: Non-blocked West System will lose it's watertight properties over time, but it takes a while. I have used it (thickened) outside in a fillet to seal the gap between a brick half wall and the siding of the house. I never painted it and it was still doing the trick 2 years later... and snow, rain and sun hit it constantly. What I could tell is that places where I used the clear unthickened epoxy, it started to look cloudy over time. My two sense.
Don: what did the West article say?? I replaced the console panel in my Nauset with Starboard, but I also built a teak set that I think would look better. I was thinking the same thing as ratherwhalering... I was going to coat the back with a little West...
Bob
Chesapeake posted 02-01-2002 02:47 PM ET (US)
Make that two Cents -- I don't know how much sense I am making...
Bob
dfmcintyre posted 02-01-2002 09:42 PM ET (US)
Bob - (and others....)
It was an article by Tom Pawlak, in the Fall 2001, #18 issue of Epoxyworks, a Gougeon Brothers periodical. It recommended three coats of epoxy, followed by two or three coats of varnish. This would give the look and depth of 12 coats of varnish, faster and with the shrinkage problem minimized.
It sounds like this system can be only used on either new projects, or completely stripped projects.
For further, and I think _anyone_ interested in thinking about varnishing your teak, should contact them at 989-684-6881 and see about optaining a copy of #18. You can subscribe for free, to an interesting periodical. I wish I had this prior to starting on my project.
Don
jimh posted 02-02-2002 11:56 AM ET (US)
Jim Watson from WEST Systems mentions a technique for coating wood with epoxy then varnish in his interview on WHALER RADIO.
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/radio/#west
WEST Systems also has a telephone customer service line that can help with inquiries like this. See above URL.
By the way, both Meade Gugeon and Jim Watson of WEST Systems own Boston Whalers, and the WEST company owns a couple of them, too. They are very familiar with using epoxy to make repairs to Boston Whalers.
Note on the MP3 audio file mentioned above: a year ago many people were unable to play MP3 audio files, but these days most any computer can handle them if properly configured.

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Author	Topic: Epoxy barrier on teak
ratherwhalering	posted 01-28-2002 12:57 PM ET (US) A friend recommended I coat the backs of my teak console trim, the bottom of my forward hatch cover, and the bottom of the cooler chocks with epoxy before I varnish, to create a water barrier. Does anyone have any experience with this?
OutrageMan	posted 01-28-2002 02:25 PM ET (US) Although it can't hurt, I am not sure you need to do this.
ratherwhalering	posted 01-28-2002 02:28 PM ET (US) I didn't think so either, I think the varnish will create an adequate barrier, but I thought I'd ask if anyone else does this.
sorcerer	posted 01-28-2002 02:40 PM ET (US) This technique is used in numerous applications where the underside wood will be exposed to moisture and will dry very slowly. You can just varnish the underside which will produce the same sealing effect. No need for epoxy. In other words by coating the back you limit moisture migration to the top surface which is sealed and subjected to faster drying times. This in it self will prolong your top varnish life. Common cause of surface flaking.
JFM	posted 01-28-2002 03:09 PM ET (US) Teak is a wood that likes to breath and is a natural oily wood. When you seal it differn't things can happen when the oil wants to escape. It can push the finsh out, check, split, etc.. I know many members varnish teak, but I don't think "Mother Nature" intended it to be. I think that teak looks nice varnished, but I'll never do it. I'll just keep oiling mine. The teak I see that has been around a long time seems to like to be left alone. Regards, Jay
kamml	posted 01-28-2002 06:49 PM ET (US) I agree with Jay, I have been oiling mine and they look fine. When they grey out a little, a little oil on a shop rag and they look good again. Save the varnish and the rest of the hard work, use oil. BTW, I use linseed, it gives a rich yellow grain and hardens to a soft weather proof/resistant patina. Ken
dfmcintyre	posted 01-31-2002 04:40 PM ET (US) In this months issue of a periodical published by the WEST Epoxy system folks, was an article that addressed this issue. Very interesting, and you should try and obtain a copy. don
LarrySherman	posted 01-31-2002 04:55 PM ET (US) I re-built my fire extinguisher box from 1/4 and 3/8 teak ply that I coated with epoxy on the finish side. I also used epoxy to put it together. I came out fairly well. It is very tough to get a bubble free epoxy coat in uncontrolled atomspheric conditions though. Humidity causes amin blush, and temp changes cause the wood to out gass, which leads to pinhole sized bubbles in your work. I would not recommend it for your trim.
Arch Autenreith	posted 01-31-2002 05:28 PM ET (US) Larry. I don't know if you are using West System but my recollection is that the epoxy can't stand by itself and therefore needs a UV block like varnish or paint. Just curious, did you use either? (I'm too lazy to scroung around for the manuals to make sure about the UV.) Arch
LarrySherman	posted 01-31-2002 05:56 PM ET (US) Nope, I waxed it. Live and learn. I'll let you know how it holds up. So far 1 season in the sun, and no problems.
Chesapeake	posted 02-01-2002 02:46 PM ET (US) Arch: Non-blocked West System will lose it's watertight properties over time, but it takes a while. I have used it (thickened) outside in a fillet to seal the gap between a brick half wall and the siding of the house. I never painted it and it was still doing the trick 2 years later... and snow, rain and sun hit it constantly. What I could tell is that places where I used the clear unthickened epoxy, it started to look cloudy over time. My two sense. Don: what did the West article say?? I replaced the console panel in my Nauset with Starboard, but I also built a teak set that I think would look better. I was thinking the same thing as ratherwhalering... I was going to coat the back with a little West... Bob
Chesapeake	posted 02-01-2002 02:47 PM ET (US) Make that two Cents -- I don't know how much sense I am making... Bob
dfmcintyre	posted 02-01-2002 09:42 PM ET (US) Bob - (and others....) It was an article by Tom Pawlak, in the Fall 2001, #18 issue of Epoxyworks, a Gougeon Brothers periodical. It recommended three coats of epoxy, followed by two or three coats of varnish. This would give the look and depth of 12 coats of varnish, faster and with the shrinkage problem minimized. It sounds like this system can be only used on either new projects, or completely stripped projects. For further, and I think _anyone_ interested in thinking about varnishing your teak, should contact them at 989-684-6881 and see about optaining a copy of #18. You can subscribe for free, to an interesting periodical. I wish I had this prior to starting on my project. Don
jimh	posted 02-02-2002 11:56 AM ET (US) Jim Watson from WEST Systems mentions a technique for coating wood with epoxy then varnish in his interview on WHALER RADIO. http://continuouswave.com/whaler/radio/#west WEST Systems also has a telephone customer service line that can help with inquiries like this. See above URL. By the way, both Meade Gugeon and Jim Watson of WEST Systems own Boston Whalers, and the WEST company owns a couple of them, too. They are very familiar with using epoxy to make repairs to Boston Whalers. Note on the MP3 audio file mentioned above: a year ago many people were unable to play MP3 audio files, but these days most any computer can handle them if properly configured.