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no glitter posted 04-05-2002 12:50 PM ET (US)
anyone have any advice,details, pictures, pros/cons on raising the console?
dreid posted 04-05-2002 01:47 PM ET (US)
See Cetacea page 37 and Don McIntyre's console raising success.
lhg posted 04-05-2002 02:41 PM ET (US)
Do it, and you'll wonder why you waited so long. It makes a huge difference. I have raised the (Montauk style) consoles in both of my Outrages 4", using 3" wide teak blocking. It's an easy job, and doesn't even require removing or re-rigging anything, and it looks factory original. Just unbolt the console from the floor, slide it sideways so one of the blocks can be installed ( I designed mine to use the same screw holes already in the floor), then lift the console up to it, slide over the other way, install the other block, and screw the console into the new blocks, using same screws.
By the time I did my second boat, I discovered that the riser does not have to be solid for it's entire length. So I used shorter riser blocks at each end, cut from 2 1/2" thick teak stock, and then spanned a 1 1/2" thick teak "beam" across the top. The console then continuously screws into this top member.
If you raise the console, you should also raise the RPS or pedestal seats at least 4" also. I used 6", so an Igloo 72 qt cooler seat fits underneath. An added benefit is the space gained under the console, which is bigger than expected. I use this for my fender storage, but it would work for life jackets and cushions also.
This is also a great modification for a Montauk, but I have not yet heard of anybody doing it. The under-console storage would really be valuable space gained. For tall people, this modification is a must, and really increases the "feel" and scale of the boat.
Eagleman posted 04-05-2002 04:49 PM ET (US)
no gitter,
If you raise your console and plan to raise your RPS I've got 4 Stainless piece's made that I had intended on using on my 22' Outrage before I sold the boat. They will work on a RPS and they a "industrial marine" look to them.They are cut out of 4x6 s/s box tubing to the same form as the footprint of the RPS support bracket. These will raise your RPS 4" inchs. Good luck, Eagleman
dfmcintyre posted 04-05-2002 09:57 PM ET (US)
I raised it like Larry's but with a slight mod:
Used multiple 1" pieces of mahogany, that were epoxyed togeather, coated with epoxy, edge routed and painted to match the console.
They were mounted by countersinking six or eight? screws through the deck floor, into the plywood underneath, after laying down a bed of 3M 5200 sealant the total footprint of both blocks.
It goes without saying that I don't plan on removing the risers....ever
Looks factory.
Don
Drisney posted 04-06-2002 12:39 PM ET (US)
When I bought my 17 the console and seat were completely shot so I built the whole thing taller from the start. I am average height (6'2") and can't imagine it being regular height for use in ocean. (always standing) Dave
bboeri posted 04-10-2002 08:13 PM ET (US)
lhg,
I have an 88 Montauk that I am thinking of raising the console on. As described in your process, do the screws holding the console to the blocks go all the way through the blocks and into the same holes on the floor? Also, where did you get 4" thick teak to form the blocks. I would like to raise the RPS also. Thanks,
Bob
lhg posted 04-10-2002 10:45 PM ET (US)
Bob - I'll try to answer your questions. First of all, for a Montauk, I recommend that you use my detail from my second boat, described above. This avoids the need for laminations, and I think looks even better.
The 2 1/2" thick end blocks (4 total) were made from a single thickness of teak (3" nominal), which I was able to find, and are 3" wide and 4" long (front to back dimension). These are first screwed into the SAME holes in the floor that the aluminum angle used. This will take some careful drilling of the teak blocks. Note that this will leave 3 (I think) center screw holes in the floor unused, and exposed. I first used a countersink bit to bevel them out, then installed 3/4" long 1/4" ss flat head screws flush, set in silicone. Then I screwed the 1 1/2" beam, also 3" wide, on top of the blocks. Then the console contiuously screws into this, using the same screws used to hold it to the floor. The whole installation will be rock solid.
All outside teak edges were eased with a router. Either a corner round, or 45 degree bevel can be used. All in all, this makes for a beautiful installation, and the teak risers match the teak covering board at the console base. It looks factory if done right.
If you are only going to raise the seat the same 4", the same detail can be used. If you're going to raise it 6", then the riser blocks will have to be laminated to get 4" of height, then a 2" beam can go on the top. Once again, the seat base only screws into the teak beam, not all the way through. But don't trust laminations alone. Use some screws as a back-up in case a lamination fails. Any good exotic lumber yard should have these various thickness teak boards.
PS: the outside front of the console blocks may have to be eased a little at the floor, since the Montauk floor angles up at the front corner of the console.
lhg posted 04-11-2002 07:08 PM ET (US)
I checked a few dimensions of the console risers. The top beam is 27" x 3" x 1 1/2".
The front riser blocks under the beam are 4" long x 3" wide x 2 1/2" high. The rear risers are the same, but 5" long instead.
This leaves 4 original screw holes exposed in the boat floor on each side.
JohnT posted 04-11-2002 10:53 PM ET (US)
I'm in the process of doing this on my 1977 Montauk. I will be raising the console four inches on two solid blocks of mahogany, 27"x 4" x 1.75" I will be closing up the holes with Marine-tex and sealing them, drilling new holes in the floor, and mounting the console on pieces of aluminum angle on the outside of the console, secured by through-bolts. Yes, I have purchased a very long drill bit to drill through the four inch blocks and into the floor. After drilling the pilot holes, I'll widen the top of the holes to the desired depth with a 3/8" (1/2"?) bit to accommodate the screw heads, then plug the tops of those holes to keep any water out that may get through the colsole. Of course, instead of angle iron, wooden cleats and the existing lag screws could be used. I'm useing the angle iron because the console was digging into the floor, and the aluminum angles will protect the mahogany blocks. I also think the console may be more secure this way.
My RPS is already raised by way of risers under the legs and also blocks inserted under the seat cushion. Below the raised seat is a 28 gallon Tempo gas tank.
I also have a custom made teak box atop my console which I'm not sure I could live without. After I finish my installation, I will take pictures of the whole thing (actually, I'll be taking pictures of the process and will try to post them so you can see what I'm talking about).
I'm looking forward to having the helm at a more comfortable height and especially to having extra storage space under the console.
lhg posted 04-12-2002 03:58 PM ET (US)
JohnT - I was always under the impression that the consoles were originally mounted to the floor with aluminum angles, covered by a beveled teak strip. Both of mine came that way. Maybe the earlier ones were done differently, but the system you describe is exactly how the factory installed mine.
Tom W Clark posted 04-12-2002 04:12 PM ET (US)
A note on the factory mounting of the consoles:
Up until the early 1980's, the Montauk (and Outrage) center consoles were mounted by screwing through the side of the fiberglass console into a large block of varnished mahogany which itself was screwed to the floor. This system was prone to ripping out of the floor after a period of years. I know, it happened to my 1980 Montauk.
By 1983 the console was mounted by bolting it to the angle aluminum which was first screwed to the floor and the whole arrangement was trimmed with the teak strip that lhg describes.
The later arrangement was much stronger and if I had an older Montauk I would not hesitate to upgrade to the newer method of attachment. It is also much easier to install than the older system.
dfmcintyre posted 04-13-2002 10:17 AM ET (US)
The very early consoles just had the fiberglass radiused from the vertical side of the console to horizontal. The horizontal "foot", for lack of a better term, was about 1 1/2" wide, that ran the length of the console.
The must have had problems with that design, then went to the varnished maghogany, which was then redone into the angled metal design.
I don't know if it was a mold simplification mod or a wear issue (i.e. cracking of the foot) that prompted the change from Mod1 to Mod2.
Don
Jim Bennett posted 04-13-2002 09:54 PM ET (US)
Don, Tom et al,
The console on my 73 OR 21 is as Don describes in the above post, attached to deck with screws through molded fiberglass console flange into wood strips under deck. Although not planning to raise my console or RPS at this time, (I am a mere 6') when I begin reassembling my boat, I am concerned about attachment of the console. Having seen the aluminum angle approach in photos and in person, I am wondering how I would go about doing that. Those wood strips below the fiberglass deck are pretty thin (1/2") and pretty narrow (4" max I think). Would it really be feasible to do the aluminum angle mounting?? Wouldn't I have to cut off the molded flange on bottom of console? And, in any case, should I use some type of sealant whether I mount console with existing state or modify for aluminum angle mounting?
dfmcintyre posted 04-15-2002 02:54 PM ET (US)
Jim
If you want, I can email some closeup images of the risers.
don
no glitter posted 04-16-2002 02:55 PM ET (US)
thanks for all your input. Was planning on doing this project this winter but after bumping my console I realized I need to do it now (Plywood underneath is is sad shape)

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Author	Topic: raising console in outrage
no glitter	posted 04-05-2002 12:50 PM ET (US) anyone have any advice,details, pictures, pros/cons on raising the console?
dreid	posted 04-05-2002 01:47 PM ET (US) See Cetacea page 37 and Don McIntyre's console raising success.
lhg	posted 04-05-2002 02:41 PM ET (US) Do it, and you'll wonder why you waited so long. It makes a huge difference. I have raised the (Montauk style) consoles in both of my Outrages 4", using 3" wide teak blocking. It's an easy job, and doesn't even require removing or re-rigging anything, and it looks factory original. Just unbolt the console from the floor, slide it sideways so one of the blocks can be installed ( I designed mine to use the same screw holes already in the floor), then lift the console up to it, slide over the other way, install the other block, and screw the console into the new blocks, using same screws. By the time I did my second boat, I discovered that the riser does not have to be solid for it's entire length. So I used shorter riser blocks at each end, cut from 2 1/2" thick teak stock, and then spanned a 1 1/2" thick teak "beam" across the top. The console then continuously screws into this top member. If you raise the console, you should also raise the RPS or pedestal seats at least 4" also. I used 6", so an Igloo 72 qt cooler seat fits underneath. An added benefit is the space gained under the console, which is bigger than expected. I use this for my fender storage, but it would work for life jackets and cushions also. This is also a great modification for a Montauk, but I have not yet heard of anybody doing it. The under-console storage would really be valuable space gained. For tall people, this modification is a must, and really increases the "feel" and scale of the boat.
Eagleman	posted 04-05-2002 04:49 PM ET (US) no gitter, If you raise your console and plan to raise your RPS I've got 4 Stainless piece's made that I had intended on using on my 22' Outrage before I sold the boat. They will work on a RPS and they a "industrial marine" look to them.They are cut out of 4x6 s/s box tubing to the same form as the footprint of the RPS support bracket. These will raise your RPS 4" inchs. Good luck, Eagleman
dfmcintyre	posted 04-05-2002 09:57 PM ET (US) I raised it like Larry's but with a slight mod: Used multiple 1" pieces of mahogany, that were epoxyed togeather, coated with epoxy, edge routed and painted to match the console. They were mounted by countersinking six or eight? screws through the deck floor, into the plywood underneath, after laying down a bed of 3M 5200 sealant the total footprint of both blocks. It goes without saying that I don't plan on removing the risers....ever Looks factory. Don
Drisney	posted 04-06-2002 12:39 PM ET (US) When I bought my 17 the console and seat were completely shot so I built the whole thing taller from the start. I am average height (6'2") and can't imagine it being regular height for use in ocean. (always standing) Dave
bboeri	posted 04-10-2002 08:13 PM ET (US) lhg, I have an 88 Montauk that I am thinking of raising the console on. As described in your process, do the screws holding the console to the blocks go all the way through the blocks and into the same holes on the floor? Also, where did you get 4" thick teak to form the blocks. I would like to raise the RPS also. Thanks, Bob
lhg	posted 04-10-2002 10:45 PM ET (US) Bob - I'll try to answer your questions. First of all, for a Montauk, I recommend that you use my detail from my second boat, described above. This avoids the need for laminations, and I think looks even better. The 2 1/2" thick end blocks (4 total) were made from a single thickness of teak (3" nominal), which I was able to find, and are 3" wide and 4" long (front to back dimension). These are first screwed into the SAME holes in the floor that the aluminum angle used. This will take some careful drilling of the teak blocks. Note that this will leave 3 (I think) center screw holes in the floor unused, and exposed. I first used a countersink bit to bevel them out, then installed 3/4" long 1/4" ss flat head screws flush, set in silicone. Then I screwed the 1 1/2" beam, also 3" wide, on top of the blocks. Then the console contiuously screws into this, using the same screws used to hold it to the floor. The whole installation will be rock solid. All outside teak edges were eased with a router. Either a corner round, or 45 degree bevel can be used. All in all, this makes for a beautiful installation, and the teak risers match the teak covering board at the console base. It looks factory if done right. If you are only going to raise the seat the same 4", the same detail can be used. If you're going to raise it 6", then the riser blocks will have to be laminated to get 4" of height, then a 2" beam can go on the top. Once again, the seat base only screws into the teak beam, not all the way through. But don't trust laminations alone. Use some screws as a back-up in case a lamination fails. Any good exotic lumber yard should have these various thickness teak boards. PS: the outside front of the console blocks may have to be eased a little at the floor, since the Montauk floor angles up at the front corner of the console.
lhg	posted 04-11-2002 07:08 PM ET (US) I checked a few dimensions of the console risers. The top beam is 27" x 3" x 1 1/2". The front riser blocks under the beam are 4" long x 3" wide x 2 1/2" high. The rear risers are the same, but 5" long instead. This leaves 4 original screw holes exposed in the boat floor on each side.
JohnT	posted 04-11-2002 10:53 PM ET (US) I'm in the process of doing this on my 1977 Montauk. I will be raising the console four inches on two solid blocks of mahogany, 27"x 4" x 1.75" I will be closing up the holes with Marine-tex and sealing them, drilling new holes in the floor, and mounting the console on pieces of aluminum angle on the outside of the console, secured by through-bolts. Yes, I have purchased a very long drill bit to drill through the four inch blocks and into the floor. After drilling the pilot holes, I'll widen the top of the holes to the desired depth with a 3/8" (1/2"?) bit to accommodate the screw heads, then plug the tops of those holes to keep any water out that may get through the colsole. Of course, instead of angle iron, wooden cleats and the existing lag screws could be used. I'm useing the angle iron because the console was digging into the floor, and the aluminum angles will protect the mahogany blocks. I also think the console may be more secure this way. My RPS is already raised by way of risers under the legs and also blocks inserted under the seat cushion. Below the raised seat is a 28 gallon Tempo gas tank. I also have a custom made teak box atop my console which I'm not sure I could live without. After I finish my installation, I will take pictures of the whole thing (actually, I'll be taking pictures of the process and will try to post them so you can see what I'm talking about). I'm looking forward to having the helm at a more comfortable height and especially to having extra storage space under the console.
lhg	posted 04-12-2002 03:58 PM ET (US) JohnT - I was always under the impression that the consoles were originally mounted to the floor with aluminum angles, covered by a beveled teak strip. Both of mine came that way. Maybe the earlier ones were done differently, but the system you describe is exactly how the factory installed mine.
Tom W Clark	posted 04-12-2002 04:12 PM ET (US) A note on the factory mounting of the consoles: Up until the early 1980's, the Montauk (and Outrage) center consoles were mounted by screwing through the side of the fiberglass console into a large block of varnished mahogany which itself was screwed to the floor. This system was prone to ripping out of the floor after a period of years. I know, it happened to my 1980 Montauk. By 1983 the console was mounted by bolting it to the angle aluminum which was first screwed to the floor and the whole arrangement was trimmed with the teak strip that lhg describes. The later arrangement was much stronger and if I had an older Montauk I would not hesitate to upgrade to the newer method of attachment. It is also much easier to install than the older system.
dfmcintyre	posted 04-13-2002 10:17 AM ET (US) The very early consoles just had the fiberglass radiused from the vertical side of the console to horizontal. The horizontal "foot", for lack of a better term, was about 1 1/2" wide, that ran the length of the console. The must have had problems with that design, then went to the varnished maghogany, which was then redone into the angled metal design. I don't know if it was a mold simplification mod or a wear issue (i.e. cracking of the foot) that prompted the change from Mod1 to Mod2. Don
Jim Bennett	posted 04-13-2002 09:54 PM ET (US) Don, Tom et al, The console on my 73 OR 21 is as Don describes in the above post, attached to deck with screws through molded fiberglass console flange into wood strips under deck. Although not planning to raise my console or RPS at this time, (I am a mere 6') when I begin reassembling my boat, I am concerned about attachment of the console. Having seen the aluminum angle approach in photos and in person, I am wondering how I would go about doing that. Those wood strips below the fiberglass deck are pretty thin (1/2") and pretty narrow (4" max I think). Would it really be feasible to do the aluminum angle mounting?? Wouldn't I have to cut off the molded flange on bottom of console? And, in any case, should I use some type of sealant whether I mount console with existing state or modify for aluminum angle mounting?
dfmcintyre	posted 04-15-2002 02:54 PM ET (US) Jim If you want, I can email some closeup images of the risers. don
no glitter	posted 04-16-2002 02:55 PM ET (US) thanks for all your input. Was planning on doing this project this winter but after bumping my console I realized I need to do it now (Plywood underneath is is sad shape)