25-Outrage hull crack - Moderated Discussion Areas

  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: Whaler Repairs/Mods
  25-Outrage hull crack

search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   25-Outrage hull crack

palmsup posted 08-06-2002 09:39 AM ET (US)
Recently bought a 87 25ft Outrage, my first whaler, that needed some tlc. Took it out after minor repairs to dings and drain tubes. First set of big water and port side cracked about 4 inches down from in the front of gas cap. Fiberglass guy tells me it a design flaw on that model. He says it stems from a hole whaler cut in the side to place gas vent. sure enough I tooh a panel off and there is a hole the size of a door knob. Any suggestions ?
lhg posted 08-07-2002 01:11 AM ET (US)
I have same hull, and your fiberglass guy is wrong. No crack, and no design flaw, after 13 years of use in big water. All Outrages have the fuel vent detailed this way, with the inner shell being cut and the foam removed for vent installation.
Look for another cause, probably a repair of prior damage.
DaveH posted 08-07-2002 09:40 AM ET (US)
palmsup:
I just inspected a 25 Outrage Cuddy and noticed 4 distinct vertical waves about 1 foot apart along the port side aft of the fuel vents. I suspected delamination as the cause. Does your crack appear to the outer skin or on both inside and outside? If the former, try tapping along the hull with the handle of a screwdriver and listen for sounds of hollow spots. I would be interested in your findings compared to the area of the crack.
Tom W Clark posted 08-07-2002 10:27 AM ET (US)
DaveH,
The distortions you are seeing are probably not delamination but common "puckering" that is seen in many of the Whalers from the 1980's. It is caused by the foam shrinking back and taking the sides with it.
jimh posted 08-07-2002 10:30 AM ET (US)
Could you please describe in more detail the nature of this crack?
Is the crack on the outer hull mold?
Is the crack on the cockpit liner mold?
Is the crack oriented vertically or horizontally?
Does the crack penetrate the gelcoat only?
The underlying laminate?
palmsup posted 08-07-2002 04:00 PM ET (US)
I bought the boat from a man in Canada that had not run the boat in 2 yrs.It was kept in a barn at his mothers house. The engines, 1999 Johnsons have less than 20 hrs each.(cost on rig was a little higher than the engines) The boat was extremely oxidized so during inspection I did not see the previous repair. Good call Ihg. The Whaler guy I use is Joe Orlando in Kemah Texas. He has a container full of whaler parts and wood if anyone is interested. He told me it was a design flaw and that it would crack again. He also told me Whaler issued a repair memo. Says I need to take most of the side off and re-glass at a couple of thousand $ . The hull does have the verticl waves DaveH descibed and Tom W Clark explained. The crack is not into the cockpit liner mold. The teak is split on the gunnel. I do not think the crack penetrates the underlying laminate. I have taken the boat out 40+ miles and seen no increase in crack size. jimh, I will give a much closer look tonight.
Fishcop posted 08-07-2002 08:34 PM ET (US)
Palmsup,
My 1987 25' outrage has the same cracks you describe near your fuel vent on the exterior gelcoat of the hull. Mine stem from a point under the rub rail where the teak and fiberglass meet. The teak is split at the same point. Figured it was hit on the dock or some other object. I will take a closer look let you know.
Does your friend Joe have any rear rails for my 25' outrage?
Leaning post with the sink/livewell?
Andy.
palmsup posted 08-08-2002 09:39 AM ET (US)
Fishcop,
That is the same spot my boat cracked. I will call Joe today to find out more about the repair memo he says was issued by Whaler. I have talked with 5 other 25 Outrage owners and the have not had any problems. I will also ask about the rails.
whitewater posted 08-08-2002 12:58 PM ET (US)
Random thoughts/questions:
What year(s) do people have problem with?
Is it only the 25'?
Does it affect the Revenge as well?

Blue posted 08-12-2002 11:46 PM ET (US)
I know of two other whalers here in Texas that have cracked in that same spot. Both are used offshore in the Gulf of Mexico chop and both carry a large load of coolers and ice on the bow. First one was sent back to Whaler for repairs about five years ago, second was done last year by Meeks, possible sent to Joe Orlando. He knows those boats like no other.
Fishcop posted 08-13-2002 11:40 AM ET (US)
Palmsup,
Checked out the hull cracks this weekend. Seems that the starting point is on the top behind the rub rail. The gelcoat is cracking and continued to crack after I used it this weekend. Vertical hair line cracks and now a chip where some of the gelcoat fell off.
Looks like a stress crack. I could not find any damage or repairs. The cracks went from about 2" to 6" after several hours of use offshore. Let me know if you find out what the cause would be. Stress, puckering, design flaw?
Andy.
palmsup posted 08-13-2002 05:53 PM ET (US)
Fishcop,
Looked at the pictures of your boat. Great transom job. Does the extension cause the boat to run any different? my 25 will flaot in 22 inches. It will get up in about 30. Some boaters have told me that the extension alters the ride.(in a bad way)
Fiberman Joe orlando told me that the crack was from the vent cut out and it happens when the boat flexes. He says the 25 outrage is the only one to do that beacause of its length.Did yours start before or after the extension? He tells me I am gonna need alot of cheese for this repair. All the glass on the side of the boat needs to be taken completely off in about a 4-5 foot section and re-glassed (says that is official Whaler memo). Cost wiil be around 3 thousand to fix correctly. He also told me I could continue to use it just do not pound it. I have taken several trips inshore and out 40 + miles and the crack has not gotten worse. I am gonna get it fixed. I tried to contact Whaler but got no response.
Fishcop posted 08-13-2002 06:20 PM ET (US)
Palmsup,
Sounds like the same stress cracks to me. I did hit heavy water yesterday to see if it was due to stress. I had not been checking it until your post. Seems like $$$'s might be worth it for a good repair. Do you have the memo from whaler? I will check into repairs for my boat.
I got the whaler with the bracket already installed, so I can not comment on the non- bracket 25' boats. I can tell you that the last two trips have been over 175 miles each and that is one day trips. I think that the ride is the best I have ever had. The bracket makes the boat feel longer than it is and adds to flotation and stability.
Did your guy have any rails or a leaning post?
Andy.
palmsup posted 08-14-2002 02:00 PM ET (US)
Fishcop,
What type rails are ya looking for? I just had all rails taken off my boat and replaced with alum to match the T-top. I had side rails that were attached to the side of the hull about the mid section of the teak. If thats what your looking for I can try to get it for ya.
I do not have a memo on the repair. How long have you owned the boat before it cracked? I bought mine and it started the 2nd weekend I had it out. If I could find the guy that sold it to me I would intro his backside to my boot. Any way, it might have been repaired before you bought. Try Whaler, they might give some info. I am still trying and if I get something I will forward.
Fishcop posted 08-19-2002 04:03 PM ET (US)
Palmsup,
The rails you took off your boat are the ones I need for my boat. Should be a short section that attaches to the top of the teak.
Let me know if you still have them.
Thanks,
Andy.
Fishcop posted 08-21-2002 03:54 PM ET (US)
Palmsup,
I just talked to Chuck at Whaler. He faxed me the factory rapair for hull fractures.
Has the repair steps and a diagram showing the same fracture as you and I have on our 25' Outrages. Stress is the cause. Needs repair before it gets worse.
Ran my boat yesterday inshore and no additional cracks.
Let me know if you need this or call Chuck at Whaler (386) 409-6412
Andy.
palmsup posted 08-21-2002 07:24 PM ET (US)
Andy,
Thanks for the fax, I will contact him to geta copy so I will know what to expect. guess that ends my season. Oh, well its dove and beer season here in TX. I called to try to get the rails back but have not heard from them. If I can find them I will send them to you. Since my boat is gonna be out of commish for awhile, I thought I might put on one of those brackets like you have. Do you have any trouble putting the boat in? My motors go under a little on steep ramps. I also am worried about shallow water performance. Cost on a dual unit is about 5gs installed.
Mills
Tom W Clark posted 09-04-2002 04:00 PM ET (US)
Andy,
Could you send me a copy of that repair recommendation? I'm curious as to Whaler's remedy. My fax is 206-783-4895 or tomwclark@attbi.com
Thanks
Fishcop posted 09-04-2002 04:43 PM ET (US)
Tom,
Faxed copy to your number.
Andy.
Tom W Clark posted 09-06-2002 12:31 PM ET (US)
Andy,
Thanks for the fax. It was two pages, one page with steps 1 through 8 plus a page with a diagram of the forward half of the hull. Is this correct?
The repair looks very straight forward though laborious.
Capt_Tidy posted 09-06-2002 02:43 PM ET (US)
Can we post it someplace for future reference... for those of us without a crack YET! Tom's CD?
Otherwise I'll have to stop playing in the surf and stop buzzing the back of freighters for airtime.
Fishcop posted 09-23-2002 01:25 PM ET (US)
JumU,
Back to the top for easy reading.

Hop to:

Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.

Author	Topic: 25-Outrage hull crack
palmsup	posted 08-06-2002 09:39 AM ET (US) Recently bought a 87 25ft Outrage, my first whaler, that needed some tlc. Took it out after minor repairs to dings and drain tubes. First set of big water and port side cracked about 4 inches down from in the front of gas cap. Fiberglass guy tells me it a design flaw on that model. He says it stems from a hole whaler cut in the side to place gas vent. sure enough I tooh a panel off and there is a hole the size of a door knob. Any suggestions ?
lhg	posted 08-07-2002 01:11 AM ET (US) I have same hull, and your fiberglass guy is wrong. No crack, and no design flaw, after 13 years of use in big water. All Outrages have the fuel vent detailed this way, with the inner shell being cut and the foam removed for vent installation. Look for another cause, probably a repair of prior damage.
DaveH	posted 08-07-2002 09:40 AM ET (US) palmsup: I just inspected a 25 Outrage Cuddy and noticed 4 distinct vertical waves about 1 foot apart along the port side aft of the fuel vents. I suspected delamination as the cause. Does your crack appear to the outer skin or on both inside and outside? If the former, try tapping along the hull with the handle of a screwdriver and listen for sounds of hollow spots. I would be interested in your findings compared to the area of the crack.
Tom W Clark	posted 08-07-2002 10:27 AM ET (US) DaveH, The distortions you are seeing are probably not delamination but common "puckering" that is seen in many of the Whalers from the 1980's. It is caused by the foam shrinking back and taking the sides with it.
jimh	posted 08-07-2002 10:30 AM ET (US) Could you please describe in more detail the nature of this crack? Is the crack on the outer hull mold? Is the crack on the cockpit liner mold? Is the crack oriented vertically or horizontally? Does the crack penetrate the gelcoat only? The underlying laminate?
palmsup	posted 08-07-2002 04:00 PM ET (US) I bought the boat from a man in Canada that had not run the boat in 2 yrs.It was kept in a barn at his mothers house. The engines, 1999 Johnsons have less than 20 hrs each.(cost on rig was a little higher than the engines) The boat was extremely oxidized so during inspection I did not see the previous repair. Good call Ihg. The Whaler guy I use is Joe Orlando in Kemah Texas. He has a container full of whaler parts and wood if anyone is interested. He told me it was a design flaw and that it would crack again. He also told me Whaler issued a repair memo. Says I need to take most of the side off and re-glass at a couple of thousand $ . The hull does have the verticl waves DaveH descibed and Tom W Clark explained. The crack is not into the cockpit liner mold. The teak is split on the gunnel. I do not think the crack penetrates the underlying laminate. I have taken the boat out 40+ miles and seen no increase in crack size. jimh, I will give a much closer look tonight.
Fishcop	posted 08-07-2002 08:34 PM ET (US) Palmsup, My 1987 25' outrage has the same cracks you describe near your fuel vent on the exterior gelcoat of the hull. Mine stem from a point under the rub rail where the teak and fiberglass meet. The teak is split at the same point. Figured it was hit on the dock or some other object. I will take a closer look let you know. Does your friend Joe have any rear rails for my 25' outrage? Leaning post with the sink/livewell? Andy.
palmsup	posted 08-08-2002 09:39 AM ET (US) Fishcop, That is the same spot my boat cracked. I will call Joe today to find out more about the repair memo he says was issued by Whaler. I have talked with 5 other 25 Outrage owners and the have not had any problems. I will also ask about the rails.
whitewater	posted 08-08-2002 12:58 PM ET (US) Random thoughts/questions: What year(s) do people have problem with? Is it only the 25'? Does it affect the Revenge as well?
Blue	posted 08-12-2002 11:46 PM ET (US) I know of two other whalers here in Texas that have cracked in that same spot. Both are used offshore in the Gulf of Mexico chop and both carry a large load of coolers and ice on the bow. First one was sent back to Whaler for repairs about five years ago, second was done last year by Meeks, possible sent to Joe Orlando. He knows those boats like no other.
Fishcop	posted 08-13-2002 11:40 AM ET (US) Palmsup, Checked out the hull cracks this weekend. Seems that the starting point is on the top behind the rub rail. The gelcoat is cracking and continued to crack after I used it this weekend. Vertical hair line cracks and now a chip where some of the gelcoat fell off. Looks like a stress crack. I could not find any damage or repairs. The cracks went from about 2" to 6" after several hours of use offshore. Let me know if you find out what the cause would be. Stress, puckering, design flaw? Andy.
palmsup	posted 08-13-2002 05:53 PM ET (US) Fishcop, Looked at the pictures of your boat. Great transom job. Does the extension cause the boat to run any different? my 25 will flaot in 22 inches. It will get up in about 30. Some boaters have told me that the extension alters the ride.(in a bad way) Fiberman Joe orlando told me that the crack was from the vent cut out and it happens when the boat flexes. He says the 25 outrage is the only one to do that beacause of its length.Did yours start before or after the extension? He tells me I am gonna need alot of cheese for this repair. All the glass on the side of the boat needs to be taken completely off in about a 4-5 foot section and re-glassed (says that is official Whaler memo). Cost wiil be around 3 thousand to fix correctly. He also told me I could continue to use it just do not pound it. I have taken several trips inshore and out 40 + miles and the crack has not gotten worse. I am gonna get it fixed. I tried to contact Whaler but got no response.
Fishcop	posted 08-13-2002 06:20 PM ET (US) Palmsup, Sounds like the same stress cracks to me. I did hit heavy water yesterday to see if it was due to stress. I had not been checking it until your post. Seems like $$$'s might be worth it for a good repair. Do you have the memo from whaler? I will check into repairs for my boat. I got the whaler with the bracket already installed, so I can not comment on the non- bracket 25' boats. I can tell you that the last two trips have been over 175 miles each and that is one day trips. I think that the ride is the best I have ever had. The bracket makes the boat feel longer than it is and adds to flotation and stability. Did your guy have any rails or a leaning post? Andy.
palmsup	posted 08-14-2002 02:00 PM ET (US) Fishcop, What type rails are ya looking for? I just had all rails taken off my boat and replaced with alum to match the T-top. I had side rails that were attached to the side of the hull about the mid section of the teak. If thats what your looking for I can try to get it for ya. I do not have a memo on the repair. How long have you owned the boat before it cracked? I bought mine and it started the 2nd weekend I had it out. If I could find the guy that sold it to me I would intro his backside to my boot. Any way, it might have been repaired before you bought. Try Whaler, they might give some info. I am still trying and if I get something I will forward.
Fishcop	posted 08-19-2002 04:03 PM ET (US) Palmsup, The rails you took off your boat are the ones I need for my boat. Should be a short section that attaches to the top of the teak. Let me know if you still have them. Thanks, Andy.
Fishcop	posted 08-21-2002 03:54 PM ET (US) Palmsup, I just talked to Chuck at Whaler. He faxed me the factory rapair for hull fractures. Has the repair steps and a diagram showing the same fracture as you and I have on our 25' Outrages. Stress is the cause. Needs repair before it gets worse. Ran my boat yesterday inshore and no additional cracks. Let me know if you need this or call Chuck at Whaler (386) 409-6412 Andy.
palmsup	posted 08-21-2002 07:24 PM ET (US) Andy, Thanks for the fax, I will contact him to geta copy so I will know what to expect. guess that ends my season. Oh, well its dove and beer season here in TX. I called to try to get the rails back but have not heard from them. If I can find them I will send them to you. Since my boat is gonna be out of commish for awhile, I thought I might put on one of those brackets like you have. Do you have any trouble putting the boat in? My motors go under a little on steep ramps. I also am worried about shallow water performance. Cost on a dual unit is about 5gs installed. Mills
Tom W Clark	posted 09-04-2002 04:00 PM ET (US) Andy, Could you send me a copy of that repair recommendation? I'm curious as to Whaler's remedy. My fax is 206-783-4895 or tomwclark@attbi.com Thanks
Fishcop	posted 09-04-2002 04:43 PM ET (US) Tom, Faxed copy to your number. Andy.
Tom W Clark	posted 09-06-2002 12:31 PM ET (US) Andy, Thanks for the fax. It was two pages, one page with steps 1 through 8 plus a page with a diagram of the forward half of the hull. Is this correct? The repair looks very straight forward though laborious.
Capt_Tidy	posted 09-06-2002 02:43 PM ET (US) Can we post it someplace for future reference... for those of us without a crack YET! Tom's CD? Otherwise I'll have to stop playing in the surf and stop buzzing the back of freighters for airtime.
Fishcop	posted 09-23-2002 01:25 PM ET (US) JumU, Back to the top for easy reading.