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Author Topic:   Montuak: Battery/Kicker Placement

FreshWater posted 08-22-2002 02:38 PM ET (US)
Need some advice on where to place dual batteries in relation to 8 or 9-HP 4-stroke kicker. Have not bought kicker yet but wanted to set up batteries for proper weight distribution. They are currently in the back on the side I would think to mount the kicker. Thanks for any help.
JBCornwell posted 08-22-2002 04:53 PM ET (US)
Howdy, Freshwater.
First, I think and 8 or 10 hp 4 stroke is going to be too heavy for a Montauk. I don't know of one that weighs less than about 90lb, and most weigh over 100lb. I would try to limit the weight to around 50lb, which means 2 or 4hp 4 stroke or up to 6-8hp 2 stroke. Either will move a Montauk at a good pace.
DUAL batteries? Why not one, big, dual purpose battery? Either way, I would put it (them) in the console by cutting out part of the floor to make room for the case. Here again, I think you are looking at unecessary weight.
Before you do either, Freshwater, please get more advice from people smarter than I. I really think you are looking at massive overkill in both categories.
Red sky at night. . .
JB :)
FreshWater posted 08-22-2002 06:25 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the reply JB.
Having not yet acquired the kicker I will proceed towards 2 stroke variety. The 2 batteries in the boat now are group 24 sized and wired through a 1, 2, or all switch. They are located on the right hand rear side. I read a post somewhere here that weight on that side helps counteract the propellor thrust. Having not had the boat in the water yet hoping to have first trip as even keeled as possible. Like every new boat owner with lots of day dreams I am planning for all sorts of electronic gizmos and gadgets and was thinking the extra battery might save me some greif on a big lake someday.
jimh posted 08-22-2002 08:21 PM ET (US)
I am always surprised by people who want to hang two motors on a 17-foot boat. The Montauk hull has some reserve buoyancy in the stern, but the weight of these 4-stroke engines is very much greater than the outboard engines of the 1970's when the hull was designed.
I would be concerned more about too much weight than with having an auxillary engine.
jimh posted 08-22-2002 08:24 PM ET (US)
[Athwartship directions on a boat should always be given in terms of PORT and STARBOARD. To say the batteries are "on the right side" does not convey with clarity where they are located--jimh.]
gnr posted 08-23-2002 09:44 AM ET (US)
Freshwater
What do you want the kicker for? If you want it for trolling you should strongly consider a four stroke. It's much quieter and the taste of that two stroke exhaust gets old after a while. I have a four stroke Honda 5hp on my 17' and it rides just fine back there on the starboard side with two batteries, one on each side. I am going to remove one of the batteries as I have yet to need the second one. I can troll all night on a gallon of gas with the kicker.
jimh I could not imagine putting the hours on my 90hp two stroke at the low rpms required to achieve trolling speed. Not good for the motor, not good for the enviroment, not good for my lungs. Around here it is common to see 12-14' aluminum boats with kickers next to the 40h main motors.
jimh posted 08-23-2002 10:06 AM ET (US)
I must be one of a minority of Whaler owners that is not a big fisherman, and thus I don't appreciate the needs for an auxillary motor for trolling.
Barnett Childress posted 08-23-2002 02:43 PM ET (US)
Freshwater,
My Montauk is in the shop being re-powered now. Merc 90hp/4S at 386# coming off and Yamaha 90hp/2S & Yamaha T8 8hp/4S hi-thrust kicker combo at 363# total weight going on. Whaler states 410# as limit for transom weight for a Montauk. The kicker is being mounted on the starboard side of the transom to offset prop torque of main motor.
I did some experementing to see what effect that much weight to starboard (100#) would have on static trim. In my case it corrects a list to port due to weight of 60# port bow mount electric trolling motor. My starting and trolling batteries are mounted in the console floor.
Our boat is used for fishing 95% of the time with just me or one other. I fish for large mouth bass where I cast from the front deck or troll for land locked salmon and lake trout from the stern. I'm planning to start getting into the ocean to fish next season as well. I also had to have a main motor with enough speed to support the occaisional family stuff like tubing & sking.
Adding a kicker also gains me access into a huge HP restricted resivoir with excellent fishing by just pulling the prop off of the main motor.
Sence the kicker is also being used as a primary get around motor I opted for electric start w/(rope backup) & PT&T. Both motors are being rigged to a dual throttle binacle mount control & tied together with a threaded connecting rod for steering.
I decided on this setup after seriously evaluating how we use our boat, and the excellent advice I got from others on this site.
On a side note some are going to think I'm crazy dumping a 4S for a 2S, but after owning a 2S & 4S 90hp Merc (both carbed) I wasn't thrilled with the 4S. IMO it was very heavy for a single motor, didn't start any easier, & loved to quit when you hit the throttle unless you really let it warm up for an extended period. It was quieter at idle but not really at speed. Fuel consumption was also great at idle/low RPM's but not that much better than the Yam 90 2S will be at speed.
Good luck with your project if you decide to proceed.
Barnett
FreshWater posted 08-24-2002 07:04 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the tips all you guys!
My planned use is in line with that of Barnett Childress.
Barnett if you see the post I would sre like to see some pics of your boat and know some more dtails.
You can email me @ mtrboatmtrboat@cs.com
Thanks again everyone!
Freshwater
andygere posted 08-25-2002 12:42 PM ET (US)
Here's a photo of my '79 Montauk with 85 hp main (292 lbs.) and 15 hp kicker (72 lbs.) on an OMC bracket (~10 lbs.), also both '79-80 vintage. http://groups.msn.com/TheGereFamilyWestCoastEdition/mybostonwhaler.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=24
I have dual batteries, located in the stern, one port and one starboard. As you can see, the boat lists slightly to starboard at rest, and the transom is a bit low. Two things would help correct this. First, locate both batteries on the port side to offset the weight of the kicker (I plan to do this). Second, mounting a longshaft kicker directly to the transom would reduce the weight cantelevered over the transom. All in all, the boat handles this setup fine, and I think the long run of battery cables and the loss of storage space makes relocating the batteries to the console a losing proposition for me. Underway, the boat is balanced, with the kicker offsetting the prop torque nicely. I think sticking with lighter 2-strokes is the way to go with a Montauk if it is going to be equiped with a kicker. On mine, the 15 hp is overkill, and a few lbs. may be saved going down to a 6 or 8 hp 2-stroke. I think Barnett may have the ultimate Montauk power setup that provides both versatility and balance.
Barnett Childress posted 08-26-2002 11:03 AM ET (US)
Freshwater,
I should be getting my boat back this week. I'll try to get some pics taken and will e-mail them to you.
I agree with Andy. Running both main and kicker 2 strokes would save on weight, as long as you can run them from same fuel system like he does. Thats what I would have prefered to do if Yam offered what I wanted in a 2 stroke kicker. The weight of a second tank with a 2 stroke pretty much equals what a comperable 4S would weigh.
My Yam 90 will be oil injected. Yam doesn't offer the premix model anymore and I didn't want to clutter the rear deck with a seperate oil mix tank. I wanted both engines to be the same brand. The new Yam portable 2 strokes are only available in 15" shaft length, you need a 20" and also don't come in hi-thrust models like I wanted.
Barnett
alvispollard posted 08-26-2002 02:43 PM ET (US)
My '90 Montauk has a Mariner 100 two stroke and a Yamaha 8 hp four stroke on port side. Weight of dual batteries, 2.5 gallon gas tank, and miscellaneous dry boxes on starboard side of cc offset the 87# kicker. I agree that barnett has the optimal combo. Love mine also,
alvis

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Author	Topic: Montuak: Battery/Kicker Placement
FreshWater	posted 08-22-2002 02:38 PM ET (US) Need some advice on where to place dual batteries in relation to 8 or 9-HP 4-stroke kicker. Have not bought kicker yet but wanted to set up batteries for proper weight distribution. They are currently in the back on the side I would think to mount the kicker. Thanks for any help.
JBCornwell	posted 08-22-2002 04:53 PM ET (US) Howdy, Freshwater. First, I think and 8 or 10 hp 4 stroke is going to be too heavy for a Montauk. I don't know of one that weighs less than about 90lb, and most weigh over 100lb. I would try to limit the weight to around 50lb, which means 2 or 4hp 4 stroke or up to 6-8hp 2 stroke. Either will move a Montauk at a good pace. DUAL batteries? Why not one, big, dual purpose battery? Either way, I would put it (them) in the console by cutting out part of the floor to make room for the case. Here again, I think you are looking at unecessary weight. Before you do either, Freshwater, please get more advice from people smarter than I. I really think you are looking at massive overkill in both categories. Red sky at night. . . JB :)
FreshWater	posted 08-22-2002 06:25 PM ET (US) Thanks for the reply JB. Having not yet acquired the kicker I will proceed towards 2 stroke variety. The 2 batteries in the boat now are group 24 sized and wired through a 1, 2, or all switch. They are located on the right hand rear side. I read a post somewhere here that weight on that side helps counteract the propellor thrust. Having not had the boat in the water yet hoping to have first trip as even keeled as possible. Like every new boat owner with lots of day dreams I am planning for all sorts of electronic gizmos and gadgets and was thinking the extra battery might save me some greif on a big lake someday.
jimh	posted 08-22-2002 08:21 PM ET (US) I am always surprised by people who want to hang two motors on a 17-foot boat. The Montauk hull has some reserve buoyancy in the stern, but the weight of these 4-stroke engines is very much greater than the outboard engines of the 1970's when the hull was designed. I would be concerned more about too much weight than with having an auxillary engine.
jimh	posted 08-22-2002 08:24 PM ET (US) [Athwartship directions on a boat should always be given in terms of PORT and STARBOARD. To say the batteries are "on the right side" does not convey with clarity where they are located--jimh.]
gnr	posted 08-23-2002 09:44 AM ET (US) Freshwater What do you want the kicker for? If you want it for trolling you should strongly consider a four stroke. It's much quieter and the taste of that two stroke exhaust gets old after a while. I have a four stroke Honda 5hp on my 17' and it rides just fine back there on the starboard side with two batteries, one on each side. I am going to remove one of the batteries as I have yet to need the second one. I can troll all night on a gallon of gas with the kicker. jimh I could not imagine putting the hours on my 90hp two stroke at the low rpms required to achieve trolling speed. Not good for the motor, not good for the enviroment, not good for my lungs. Around here it is common to see 12-14' aluminum boats with kickers next to the 40h main motors.
jimh	posted 08-23-2002 10:06 AM ET (US) I must be one of a minority of Whaler owners that is not a big fisherman, and thus I don't appreciate the needs for an auxillary motor for trolling.
Barnett Childress	posted 08-23-2002 02:43 PM ET (US) Freshwater, My Montauk is in the shop being re-powered now. Merc 90hp/4S at 386# coming off and Yamaha 90hp/2S & Yamaha T8 8hp/4S hi-thrust kicker combo at 363# total weight going on. Whaler states 410# as limit for transom weight for a Montauk. The kicker is being mounted on the starboard side of the transom to offset prop torque of main motor. I did some experementing to see what effect that much weight to starboard (100#) would have on static trim. In my case it corrects a list to port due to weight of 60# port bow mount electric trolling motor. My starting and trolling batteries are mounted in the console floor. Our boat is used for fishing 95% of the time with just me or one other. I fish for large mouth bass where I cast from the front deck or troll for land locked salmon and lake trout from the stern. I'm planning to start getting into the ocean to fish next season as well. I also had to have a main motor with enough speed to support the occaisional family stuff like tubing & sking. Adding a kicker also gains me access into a huge HP restricted resivoir with excellent fishing by just pulling the prop off of the main motor. Sence the kicker is also being used as a primary get around motor I opted for electric start w/(rope backup) & PT&T. Both motors are being rigged to a dual throttle binacle mount control & tied together with a threaded connecting rod for steering. I decided on this setup after seriously evaluating how we use our boat, and the excellent advice I got from others on this site. On a side note some are going to think I'm crazy dumping a 4S for a 2S, but after owning a 2S & 4S 90hp Merc (both carbed) I wasn't thrilled with the 4S. IMO it was very heavy for a single motor, didn't start any easier, & loved to quit when you hit the throttle unless you really let it warm up for an extended period. It was quieter at idle but not really at speed. Fuel consumption was also great at idle/low RPM's but not that much better than the Yam 90 2S will be at speed. Good luck with your project if you decide to proceed. Barnett
FreshWater	posted 08-24-2002 07:04 PM ET (US) Thanks for the tips all you guys! My planned use is in line with that of Barnett Childress. Barnett if you see the post I would sre like to see some pics of your boat and know some more dtails. You can email me @ mtrboatmtrboat@cs.com Thanks again everyone! Freshwater
andygere	posted 08-25-2002 12:42 PM ET (US) Here's a photo of my '79 Montauk with 85 hp main (292 lbs.) and 15 hp kicker (72 lbs.) on an OMC bracket (~10 lbs.), also both '79-80 vintage. http://groups.msn.com/TheGereFamilyWestCoastEdition/mybostonwhaler.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=24 I have dual batteries, located in the stern, one port and one starboard. As you can see, the boat lists slightly to starboard at rest, and the transom is a bit low. Two things would help correct this. First, locate both batteries on the port side to offset the weight of the kicker (I plan to do this). Second, mounting a longshaft kicker directly to the transom would reduce the weight cantelevered over the transom. All in all, the boat handles this setup fine, and I think the long run of battery cables and the loss of storage space makes relocating the batteries to the console a losing proposition for me. Underway, the boat is balanced, with the kicker offsetting the prop torque nicely. I think sticking with lighter 2-strokes is the way to go with a Montauk if it is going to be equiped with a kicker. On mine, the 15 hp is overkill, and a few lbs. may be saved going down to a 6 or 8 hp 2-stroke. I think Barnett may have the ultimate Montauk power setup that provides both versatility and balance.
Barnett Childress	posted 08-26-2002 11:03 AM ET (US) Freshwater, I should be getting my boat back this week. I'll try to get some pics taken and will e-mail them to you. I agree with Andy. Running both main and kicker 2 strokes would save on weight, as long as you can run them from same fuel system like he does. Thats what I would have prefered to do if Yam offered what I wanted in a 2 stroke kicker. The weight of a second tank with a 2 stroke pretty much equals what a comperable 4S would weigh. My Yam 90 will be oil injected. Yam doesn't offer the premix model anymore and I didn't want to clutter the rear deck with a seperate oil mix tank. I wanted both engines to be the same brand. The new Yam portable 2 strokes are only available in 15" shaft length, you need a 20" and also don't come in hi-thrust models like I wanted. Barnett
alvispollard	posted 08-26-2002 02:43 PM ET (US) My '90 Montauk has a Mariner 100 two stroke and a Yamaha 8 hp four stroke on port side. Weight of dual batteries, 2.5 gallon gas tank, and miscellaneous dry boxes on starboard side of cc offset the 87# kicker. I agree that barnett has the optimal combo. Love mine also, alvis