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Author Topic:   Difference Between Johnson and Evinrude

John O posted 09-22-2002 12:33 AM ET (US)
I have a 1988 Johnson 88-HP SPL. How does it differ from a 1988 Evinrude 90-HP?
maverick posted 09-22-2002 05:46 AM ET (US)
In 1987 I was repowering a 17-Montauk. I had the same question, so I wrote to OMC. I still have the letter, which essentially reads, "...paint and decals...."
Now, there is another distinction: the "88" is typically a non-oil injection, meaning you mix the oil in the fuel tank, while the "90" typically meant oil injected. Hope that helps. Mav
JBCornwell posted 09-22-2002 09:15 AM ET (US)
The 88 Spl. was also usually without power Trim and Tilt (T/T). If I recall correctly it was intended for commercial use but ended up also a price leader in the recreation market.
Red sky at night. . .
JB :)
John O posted 09-22-2002 09:51 AM ET (US)
Thanks, that all makes sense. I had a mechanic refer to my 88 spl as a commercial motor. It does not have power T/T. The OMC controls do have the thumb control on the side of the binnacle mount for that option. I want to replace my 88 with a Evinrude 90 and wanted to be sure the current riggings would work on the Evinrude.
Any overall performance or durability insight on the 90 Evinrude?
andiamo posted 09-22-2002 08:38 PM ET (US)
I have an 1987 90-HP Evinrude with oil injection. The oil tank is in the console (Montauk).
My dealer says he does not trust the Evinrude oil injection (he is a Mercury dealer) and suggests that I mix 100:1 in the gas tank just to be safe.
Any comments?
JBCornwell posted 09-22-2002 08:56 PM ET (US)
Andiamo.
Doesn't your question really deserve its own topic? It really is off the topic of this thread.
As to your question: I don't trust any oil injection system and prefer to mix fuel for all 2-strokes.
Red sky at night. . .
JB :)
John O posted 09-22-2002 10:54 PM ET (US)
Andiamo-- your info is helpful and certainly ties into my original post. I am trying to make a decision about a used motor and as much info as possible is helpful.
Bigshot posted 09-23-2002 09:59 AM ET (US)
I don't understand why people disconnect oil injection units for no good reason. Sorry JB.
If you mix 100:1 you will cause more damage than [might be prevented]. Excess oil will build carbon and stick rings, not a good idea. If an injection system goes wrong 99.5% of the time they will add more oil than lean it out. Most people blame the VRO but it is usually a lean carb that blows a cylinder. If the VRO goes all cylinders go bad.
WantaWhale posted 09-23-2002 05:26 PM ET (US)
BigShot
If he mixes 100 to 1 that will be too lean for WOT. But as to why people disconect them:
3 out of 4 oil injected 2 strokes I have owned over the years have failed and left me stranded with a siezed engine. Each time it was confirmed to be the oil injection unit that caused the problem. Ever been a few miles offshore on a jetski when this happens? Not fun. The Mercury even had a warning system but that failed too. I won't own any 2 stroke unless it's premix or the injection can be disabled.
John O posted 09-23-2002 05:46 PM ET (US)
Great input ... keep it coming. I have noticed in many ads for used VRO models the seller is quick to point out the VRO has been disconnected.
andiamo posted 09-23-2002 06:04 PM ET (US)
As the dealer explainded it to me the purpose of the 100:1 mix is to get me home safe if the pump does fail (sort of like a run flat tire), but otherwise it will simply run a little rich.
Better safe than sorry was the general idea, and having been stranded once I do not look forward to doing it again.
Having said that are there any precautions I should take to counter the impact of the rich mix
WantaWhale posted 09-24-2002 10:48 AM ET (US)
andiamo ,

I would ask around another dealer before you ever attempt to run your motor on 100:1 premix. I know in the eighties some manufacturers were saying to do that. But I have heard that they backed off from that and went back to 50:1. I know my Johnson did just that as it's 50:1 and even 25:1 for racing according to the manual. Also some of those oil injection units did mix at 100:1 but only at idle/low speeds. Running lean is much worse than running rich...as I have lost 3 engines to oil injection failure. Anyway, just doulble check on this before you attempt 100:1.
..Fletch
Bigshot posted 09-24-2002 11:15 AM ET (US)
I will say this one last time: I highly doubt people lost too many engines to VRO failures. Mercury used a plastic gear, so that is a no brainer on why it failed. OMC uses a vacuum pump just like the gas and is drawn in with the fuel. If you lose a line or get an airleak it is possible. Yamaha and Zuki use a gear drive right off the crank.....damn near fullproof. VRO is a primitive system and has been working for decades on boats, snowmobiles, jetskis, & motorcycles. Ever hear of a motorcycle blown up from VRO failure? The reason boats do is the carb gets gummed, it runs lean, it blows a piston, the mechanic blames the VRO because it is easier to blame the equipment than the customer. If you melt one or 2 pistons, carb. You scorch the crank and score all cylinders, then VRO failure. The odds of it and the warning system not working is slim to none. If you did lose 3 engines to VRO, you should consider a different brand engine or get a second opinion.
Bigshot posted 09-24-2002 11:18 AM ET (US)
Wanta, he is running 100:1 along with the VRO just in case.
I did this when i bought my 90 Yammie just to make sure. Damn thing ran like crap. If you insist on doing it you might as well disconnect because you are over oiling and already using more oil than a 50:1 premix. If you maintain current status you should run ring free and do a decarbonization every 50 hours or so.
WantaWhale posted 09-24-2002 02:21 PM ET (US)
RE: Motorcycles: Kawasaki KE100 -oil injection failed every few months, sometimes in less than a months time. Shop would rebuilt and repair. Bike would run great for 3 weeks to 3 months then vro would fail again. Bike nicknamed Seizomatic.
You would have thought I would have learned my lesson after that bike, but no, like an idiot I went out and bought a Kawasaki Jet ski. They had just added VRO but I was told that it was perfected. I was pretty guliable as a teenager so I belived them :) Same problems that went on for over a year until our State consumer protection guys came down on Kawasaki. They gave me a new (not rebuilt) engine, oil injection everything. I had one of their mechanics down with me at the ramps.
He was adjusting the carb and checking the injection every few min to get out any bugs.
Within an hour he could see air bubbles forming in the oil line. He knew I was sick of all the problems and I am sure he was sick of having to fix them so he asked if I minded going premix. He disconnected the injection unit and I never had any more problems out of that jetski. Around the same time we got a 14' mckee craft with a mercury 60. Even the dealer said we should disconnect it. I pleaded with my dad but he wouldn't listen. While I was angry that Mercury would not warranty the failed oil injection, the $1500.00 repair bill taught my dad that sons do know best :) we had an agreement that if the injection ever failed he would eat the bill. Again after the repair, we went premix and no more problems. If my problems were due to a lean carb, then I should have had more failures after going to premix but I didnt.
If you are saying that OMC brand VRO is better that might be but I had a buddy who's new 115/120 Evinrude failed within one week after he bought it due to VRO. And yes Yamaha's system may be better but after the luck I have had , I will stay with premix or just buy a 4 stroke :)
WantaWhale posted 09-24-2002 02:28 PM ET (US)
Agree about overlubing: If you are running premix and injection that is a no-no for long term use. Picke one or the other. If injection fails, I don't think 100:1 will be enough to save you unless you know you have a failure and run at idle speeds only.
Bigshot posted 09-24-2002 02:42 PM ET (US)
Geez....I would feel the same way if I was you. I had Yamahas and suzuki dirtbikes that had VRO....never a glitch. My 87 jetski had it and never a glitch. I have never had a friend lose an engine to a VRO pump. I had about a dozen VRO engines without a hiccup. Maybe the VRO gods just don't like you:)
WantaWhale posted 09-24-2002 04:03 PM ET (US)
Well its more than VRO. My luck is if I do not buy top quality anything I will be punished :) I could have bought a much larger bayliner for the price I paid for my 11 whaler but it would have sunk the first time out. Same with cars, computers you name it. I learned Unix simply to get away as much as I could from Microsoft and their blue screens.
The upside is if I product works for me, there is a 99% chance it will work for you.
Bosmass posted 09-25-2002 09:01 AM ET (US)
I know we have traveled far under this topic, however: Bigshot
My VRO was over-active and pumped so much oil into the cylinders of my 100hp Evinrude that it clogged the plugs and the motor had no power. Please explain your line "If you maintain current status you should run ring free and do a decarbonization every 50 hours or so." What is the procedure?
Bigshot posted 09-25-2002 09:41 AM ET (US)
Ring free is a product you add to gas on a regular basis. Can also run techron. Decarbonizing is a process where you buy some carbon guard or whatever and basically fog the engine, let it sit overnight and then run it again. It cleans the cylinders like new.
sargerator posted 09-25-2002 07:02 PM ET (US)
Bigshot,
Are you saying that you could run Techron (Chevron brand fuel) and that will decarbon the cylinders ?
Thanks, Sarge
Happy Sailing
Bigshot posted 09-26-2002 10:28 AM ET (US)
No, it would help but decarbonizing requires a decarbonizer. You can do it with techron by mixing a full bottle of it with a 1/2 gallon of gas and running it through and letting it sit. Decarbonizer is easier.
frank_king posted 09-26-2002 05:10 PM ET (US)
Don't you mean it cleans the top of the pistons like new? Cylinders don't "get dirty"
frank_king posted 09-26-2002 05:12 PM ET (US)
Also it keeps "coaking" [coking?] in check.
jimh posted 09-26-2002 11:51 PM ET (US)
I just could not stand it any more. I had to edit this thread to correct the spelling of Evinrude. It was variously spelled:
--even.
--Evenride
--Even
--Even.
--Evenrude
Evinrude is the oldest and possibly the most famous brand name in outboard motors, and it is a true American icon.
At the same time, Japanese brand names mentioned were spelled correctly, including Kawasaki and Yamaha.
Would it be too much to ask that we all learn how to spell Evinrude? If we can learn how to spell Tohatsu, Yamaha, Daewoo, etc., maybe a good old American brand name like Evinrude could be spelled correctly once in a while.
John O posted 09-27-2002 01:04 AM ET (US)
Bombardier owns Evinrude.? American icon ? In a way I guess yes. Now that OMC has been bailed out.
jimh posted 09-27-2002 09:30 AM ET (US)
The name Evinrude has been associated with outboard motors for over 50 years. Evinrude's rise to prominence as an American brand name occurred decades before the purchase by Bombardier a few years ago.
The fact that Bombardier continues to manufacture and market outboard motors with the Evinrude name is evidence of the value of the brand name and its significance to American recreational boaters.
In contrast, when Mercury took over Force outboards, they soon dropped the Force name entirely and re-badged the engines as Mercury's.
Actions like this should give you an indication of the value of the brand name.
Again, my point is that if people can seemingly spell without difficulty the names of foreign companies in the marine market, why can't they spell the name of one of America's most famous outboard makers?
Bigshot posted 09-27-2002 10:29 AM ET (US)
I know Jim.....Olie(sp? Evinrude invented the outboard back in 1903 or something.
Frank....last I looked the pistons were in the cylinders and it does more than clean the tops of them. It cleans the rings and can even unstick them along with carbs, fuel pump and lines, reeds, intake and exhaust ports, and anything else that it touches. So no....I do not mean just the tops of the pistons.
John O posted 09-28-2002 01:25 AM ET (US)
Hey gymn, It's a motor. Evenruge , evinrude evenbomb ,

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Author	Topic: Difference Between Johnson and Evinrude
John O	posted 09-22-2002 12:33 AM ET (US) I have a 1988 Johnson 88-HP SPL. How does it differ from a 1988 Evinrude 90-HP?
maverick	posted 09-22-2002 05:46 AM ET (US) In 1987 I was repowering a 17-Montauk. I had the same question, so I wrote to OMC. I still have the letter, which essentially reads, "...paint and decals...." Now, there is another distinction: the "88" is typically a non-oil injection, meaning you mix the oil in the fuel tank, while the "90" typically meant oil injected. Hope that helps. Mav
JBCornwell	posted 09-22-2002 09:15 AM ET (US) The 88 Spl. was also usually without power Trim and Tilt (T/T). If I recall correctly it was intended for commercial use but ended up also a price leader in the recreation market. Red sky at night. . . JB :)
John O	posted 09-22-2002 09:51 AM ET (US) Thanks, that all makes sense. I had a mechanic refer to my 88 spl as a commercial motor. It does not have power T/T. The OMC controls do have the thumb control on the side of the binnacle mount for that option. I want to replace my 88 with a Evinrude 90 and wanted to be sure the current riggings would work on the Evinrude. Any overall performance or durability insight on the 90 Evinrude?
andiamo	posted 09-22-2002 08:38 PM ET (US) I have an 1987 90-HP Evinrude with oil injection. The oil tank is in the console (Montauk). My dealer says he does not trust the Evinrude oil injection (he is a Mercury dealer) and suggests that I mix 100:1 in the gas tank just to be safe. Any comments?
JBCornwell	posted 09-22-2002 08:56 PM ET (US) Andiamo. Doesn't your question really deserve its own topic? It really is off the topic of this thread. As to your question: I don't trust any oil injection system and prefer to mix fuel for all 2-strokes. Red sky at night. . . JB :)
John O	posted 09-22-2002 10:54 PM ET (US) Andiamo-- your info is helpful and certainly ties into my original post. I am trying to make a decision about a used motor and as much info as possible is helpful.
Bigshot	posted 09-23-2002 09:59 AM ET (US) I don't understand why people disconnect oil injection units for no good reason. Sorry JB. If you mix 100:1 you will cause more damage than [might be prevented]. Excess oil will build carbon and stick rings, not a good idea. If an injection system goes wrong 99.5% of the time they will add more oil than lean it out. Most people blame the VRO but it is usually a lean carb that blows a cylinder. If the VRO goes all cylinders go bad.
WantaWhale	posted 09-23-2002 05:26 PM ET (US) BigShot If he mixes 100 to 1 that will be too lean for WOT. But as to why people disconect them: 3 out of 4 oil injected 2 strokes I have owned over the years have failed and left me stranded with a siezed engine. Each time it was confirmed to be the oil injection unit that caused the problem. Ever been a few miles offshore on a jetski when this happens? Not fun. The Mercury even had a warning system but that failed too. I won't own any 2 stroke unless it's premix or the injection can be disabled.
John O	posted 09-23-2002 05:46 PM ET (US) Great input ... keep it coming. I have noticed in many ads for used VRO models the seller is quick to point out the VRO has been disconnected.
andiamo	posted 09-23-2002 06:04 PM ET (US) As the dealer explainded it to me the purpose of the 100:1 mix is to get me home safe if the pump does fail (sort of like a run flat tire), but otherwise it will simply run a little rich. Better safe than sorry was the general idea, and having been stranded once I do not look forward to doing it again. Having said that are there any precautions I should take to counter the impact of the rich mix
WantaWhale	posted 09-24-2002 10:48 AM ET (US) andiamo , I would ask around another dealer before you ever attempt to run your motor on 100:1 premix. I know in the eighties some manufacturers were saying to do that. But I have heard that they backed off from that and went back to 50:1. I know my Johnson did just that as it's 50:1 and even 25:1 for racing according to the manual. Also some of those oil injection units did mix at 100:1 but only at idle/low speeds. Running lean is much worse than running rich...as I have lost 3 engines to oil injection failure. Anyway, just doulble check on this before you attempt 100:1. ..Fletch
Bigshot	posted 09-24-2002 11:15 AM ET (US) I will say this one last time: I highly doubt people lost too many engines to VRO failures. Mercury used a plastic gear, so that is a no brainer on why it failed. OMC uses a vacuum pump just like the gas and is drawn in with the fuel. If you lose a line or get an airleak it is possible. Yamaha and Zuki use a gear drive right off the crank.....damn near fullproof. VRO is a primitive system and has been working for decades on boats, snowmobiles, jetskis, & motorcycles. Ever hear of a motorcycle blown up from VRO failure? The reason boats do is the carb gets gummed, it runs lean, it blows a piston, the mechanic blames the VRO because it is easier to blame the equipment than the customer. If you melt one or 2 pistons, carb. You scorch the crank and score all cylinders, then VRO failure. The odds of it and the warning system not working is slim to none. If you did lose 3 engines to VRO, you should consider a different brand engine or get a second opinion.
Bigshot	posted 09-24-2002 11:18 AM ET (US) Wanta, he is running 100:1 along with the VRO just in case. I did this when i bought my 90 Yammie just to make sure. Damn thing ran like crap. If you insist on doing it you might as well disconnect because you are over oiling and already using more oil than a 50:1 premix. If you maintain current status you should run ring free and do a decarbonization every 50 hours or so.
WantaWhale	posted 09-24-2002 02:21 PM ET (US) RE: Motorcycles: Kawasaki KE100 -oil injection failed every few months, sometimes in less than a months time. Shop would rebuilt and repair. Bike would run great for 3 weeks to 3 months then vro would fail again. Bike nicknamed Seizomatic. You would have thought I would have learned my lesson after that bike, but no, like an idiot I went out and bought a Kawasaki Jet ski. They had just added VRO but I was told that it was perfected. I was pretty guliable as a teenager so I belived them :) Same problems that went on for over a year until our State consumer protection guys came down on Kawasaki. They gave me a new (not rebuilt) engine, oil injection everything. I had one of their mechanics down with me at the ramps. He was adjusting the carb and checking the injection every few min to get out any bugs. Within an hour he could see air bubbles forming in the oil line. He knew I was sick of all the problems and I am sure he was sick of having to fix them so he asked if I minded going premix. He disconnected the injection unit and I never had any more problems out of that jetski. Around the same time we got a 14' mckee craft with a mercury 60. Even the dealer said we should disconnect it. I pleaded with my dad but he wouldn't listen. While I was angry that Mercury would not warranty the failed oil injection, the $1500.00 repair bill taught my dad that sons do know best :) we had an agreement that if the injection ever failed he would eat the bill. Again after the repair, we went premix and no more problems. If my problems were due to a lean carb, then I should have had more failures after going to premix but I didnt. If you are saying that OMC brand VRO is better that might be but I had a buddy who's new 115/120 Evinrude failed within one week after he bought it due to VRO. And yes Yamaha's system may be better but after the luck I have had , I will stay with premix or just buy a 4 stroke :)
WantaWhale	posted 09-24-2002 02:28 PM ET (US) Agree about overlubing: If you are running premix and injection that is a no-no for long term use. Picke one or the other. If injection fails, I don't think 100:1 will be enough to save you unless you know you have a failure and run at idle speeds only.
Bigshot	posted 09-24-2002 02:42 PM ET (US) Geez....I would feel the same way if I was you. I had Yamahas and suzuki dirtbikes that had VRO....never a glitch. My 87 jetski had it and never a glitch. I have never had a friend lose an engine to a VRO pump. I had about a dozen VRO engines without a hiccup. Maybe the VRO gods just don't like you:)
WantaWhale	posted 09-24-2002 04:03 PM ET (US) Well its more than VRO. My luck is if I do not buy top quality anything I will be punished :) I could have bought a much larger bayliner for the price I paid for my 11 whaler but it would have sunk the first time out. Same with cars, computers you name it. I learned Unix simply to get away as much as I could from Microsoft and their blue screens. The upside is if I product works for me, there is a 99% chance it will work for you.
Bosmass	posted 09-25-2002 09:01 AM ET (US) I know we have traveled far under this topic, however: Bigshot My VRO was over-active and pumped so much oil into the cylinders of my 100hp Evinrude that it clogged the plugs and the motor had no power. Please explain your line "If you maintain current status you should run ring free and do a decarbonization every 50 hours or so." What is the procedure?
Bigshot	posted 09-25-2002 09:41 AM ET (US) Ring free is a product you add to gas on a regular basis. Can also run techron. Decarbonizing is a process where you buy some carbon guard or whatever and basically fog the engine, let it sit overnight and then run it again. It cleans the cylinders like new.
sargerator	posted 09-25-2002 07:02 PM ET (US) Bigshot, Are you saying that you could run Techron (Chevron brand fuel) and that will decarbon the cylinders ? Thanks, Sarge Happy Sailing
Bigshot	posted 09-26-2002 10:28 AM ET (US) No, it would help but decarbonizing requires a decarbonizer. You can do it with techron by mixing a full bottle of it with a 1/2 gallon of gas and running it through and letting it sit. Decarbonizer is easier.
frank_king	posted 09-26-2002 05:10 PM ET (US) Don't you mean it cleans the top of the pistons like new? Cylinders don't "get dirty"
frank_king	posted 09-26-2002 05:12 PM ET (US) Also it keeps "coaking" [coking?] in check.
jimh	posted 09-26-2002 11:51 PM ET (US) I just could not stand it any more. I had to edit this thread to correct the spelling of Evinrude. It was variously spelled: --even. --Evenride --Even --Even. --Evenrude Evinrude is the oldest and possibly the most famous brand name in outboard motors, and it is a true American icon. At the same time, Japanese brand names mentioned were spelled correctly, including Kawasaki and Yamaha. Would it be too much to ask that we all learn how to spell Evinrude? If we can learn how to spell Tohatsu, Yamaha, Daewoo, etc., maybe a good old American brand name like Evinrude could be spelled correctly once in a while.
John O	posted 09-27-2002 01:04 AM ET (US) Bombardier owns Evinrude.? American icon ? In a way I guess yes. Now that OMC has been bailed out.
jimh	posted 09-27-2002 09:30 AM ET (US) The name Evinrude has been associated with outboard motors for over 50 years. Evinrude's rise to prominence as an American brand name occurred decades before the purchase by Bombardier a few years ago. The fact that Bombardier continues to manufacture and market outboard motors with the Evinrude name is evidence of the value of the brand name and its significance to American recreational boaters. In contrast, when Mercury took over Force outboards, they soon dropped the Force name entirely and re-badged the engines as Mercury's. Actions like this should give you an indication of the value of the brand name. Again, my point is that if people can seemingly spell without difficulty the names of foreign companies in the marine market, why can't they spell the name of one of America's most famous outboard makers?
Bigshot	posted 09-27-2002 10:29 AM ET (US) I know Jim.....Olie(sp? Evinrude invented the outboard back in 1903 or something. Frank....last I looked the pistons were in the cylinders and it does more than clean the tops of them. It cleans the rings and can even unstick them along with carbs, fuel pump and lines, reeds, intake and exhaust ports, and anything else that it touches. So no....I do not mean just the tops of the pistons.
John O	posted 09-28-2002 01:25 AM ET (US) Hey gymn, It's a motor. Evenruge , evinrude evenbomb ,