Suzuki/Evinrude/ Johnson 4 stroke oil change ideas.

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Author Topic:   Suzuki/Evinrude/ Johnson 4 stroke oil change ideas.

Bigshot posted 11-25-2002 01:22 PM ET (US)
As most know I have a 1999 Evinrude/Suzuki 4 stroke 70hp. This is the same as the 60-70hp made by both Suzuki and Evinrude/Johnson. I have talked to many reps and most have said it is a 1.3L Suzuki Samurai engine that has been modified. So i said hmmmm, I have an oil filter from when i owned a Samurai, wonder if it works. My friend said he uses one in his 60hp Suzuki. So......
I changed my oil Sunday and the Samurai filter is 40% taller and a tad wider but.....it works great. The most important thing is where are the return holes and gasket compared to the screw-in hole. The threads are the same and the distance from the center hole to the flow holes is identical. The Auto filters are about 40 longer(better) and has more flow holes(better). I ran it 3 hours and no leaks.
I also ran Quakerstate full synthetic 20w 50 because it was on sale for $2.69/qt. It calls for 10w 40 but what the heck, not as if it gets cold here and with the higher revs and warmer temps, I think she'll be better. For you northerners, stick to the 10w40 or 10w30 if colder operations exist.

jstachowiak posted 11-27-2002 06:38 PM ET (US)
So you admit in public that you owned a Suzuki Samari. HHHMMMMMMMM!
What years does that cover? I'm sure that filter must be cheaper than the OMC one. As you know mine is 2001, is that the same engine?
Good news as filters and oil are far away from me.
How often are you changing oil?
Did you see my post about the prop? here it is:
"OK, with my new E-Bay $75.00 OMC SST 13 3/8" X 17 Prop, I ran today on "glass-like" St. Johns River, 5,600 RPM's trimmed out, with myself 165lbs. 20 gallons of fuel under the console and my 2 year old daughter, 26lbs. Woweee, does she scream. And hole shot is much improved. Compared to the aluminum 14X19 its like a different rig. Speedo read 37 MPH. Not GPS.
Thanks for all the help Bigshot on the prop selection. That's is right, $75.00 Stainless OMC prop on E-Bay. Plus $16 shipping."
Roarque posted 11-28-2002 09:24 AM ET (US)
BigShot, thanks for the tips on oil changes. I have a Suzuki 60 (2001) and the info is timely.
Merci from Canada
Eric posted 12-01-2002 09:50 PM ET (US)
the increased oil capacity of the larger filter will lower operating temps a bit, and the increased oil volume should be a good thing for the lifespan of the motor.
Good move.
Steve Leone posted 12-01-2002 11:26 PM ET (US)
Nick, I believe the props are interchangable with the Samuri. Might want to hold onto that tune up kit also. With the price of boating I`d save the steering wheel also. By the way I have been pondering foot controls on my Whaler so save those also, what with Jim saying there is going to be tranies on these outboads soon and all. Pop the clutch and burn water? The catalitic converter may come in handy if you plan to use that outboard in California (don`t laugh, thats Honda`s idea on how to get around the emissions standards. Hmmm.....hot ceramics and cold water....Hmmm....) If art mimics life then outboards can and will mimic the auto industry. Above all have fun, Steve
Clark Roberts posted 12-02-2002 07:29 AM ET (US)
A comment on the oil filter...filters that are mounted "side ways" have a check valve to prevent oil leak down (empty filter) when engine is not running. A full filter on start-up prevents dry starts as it takes a few seconds to fill filter! I too owned a Samuri and can't remember if filter was mounted straight up or side ways... My four stroker Merc filter mounts side ways so requires a filter with check valve! BTW, I also owned a Sidekick and currently own a Suzuki X-90 and have owned Suzuki outboards and one of my (many) motorcylces was a Suzike GN 400 (a big single "thumper" that I loved)... It would pay to check out the oil filter check valve.... Happy Whalin'.. Clark.. Spruce Creek Navy
Bigshot posted 12-02-2002 09:43 AM ET (US)
Not positive but I believe it was sideways on my Samurai(which my sister gave me and I drove for a year). As far as a check valve goes, that tiny filter that came off it had very little if no oil in it when removed. If I still have it I will cut it apart and see exactly what I got for the $9 or whatever it cost.
Ran it again Wednesday on a fresh water lake and she was flawless. No drips, drops or dreps. Ran my 14x17 alum prop because we had 5 adults and she came close to redline. Does the cold air make these things run better? Should'nt with EFI.
RWM posted 12-02-2002 08:56 PM ET (US)
I would be concerned running the heavier 20W-50 weight oil. The newer engines have closer tolerances in the bearings and need a thinner oil, particularly at startup. For several years automobile engines have called for a 5W-30 and I understand the new ones sometimes call for a 0W (whatever that is, its thinner at cool temperatures).
Running a thicker oil is not a good idea, particularly with an engine with only a few hundred hours on it IMO. You just can't get enough oil between the bearing surfaces.
Regarding the filter, I too matched it up to several others including couple Toyota engines. I chickened out however and dropped $12 for am OEM Suzuki marine filter. Oh well, only once a year...Bob M.
RWM posted 12-02-2002 08:59 PM ET (US)
By the way, last year I used the OEM Evinrude filter. It was longer and a little wider than the Suzuki OEM filter and was shaped much like the Samari filter (still $12 though).
Bigshot posted 12-03-2002 10:47 AM ET (US)
Bob....like I said if I lived anywhere but FL, I would agree on the 20w-50 issue. Being it calls for 10w-40, down here it can't hurt, especially in the summer. I also think it is better to go heavier than lighter, especially under the stress those engines see. That oil after 83 hours was pretty nasty and thin. Don't be a chicken, I think you are right that the Evinrude and Samurai are identical filters. Suzuki(which is where I get the rude serviced) uses a tiny bugger.
I also think that anyone who owns a John/Evin/zuki should have it serviced at a Zuki dealer if possible. I really do not want some OMC now Bombardier was Evinrude now Johnson mechanic fixing my engine. At least the zuki guys deal with them EVERY day, not just since they started selling them last year and only sell 5 4 strokes a year, etc.
Steve Leone posted 12-03-2002 04:51 PM ET (US)
The Suzuki dealer here is doing a booming biz on those four-strokes. What with federal emmission standards and all. Last I heard he had just rigged #172 for the year. Not bad. Methinks someother car mfgs are going to get in the biz. As long as Yugo stays out of it.....
weekendwarrior posted 12-03-2002 05:37 PM ET (US)
I'll second the warning on going too thick on the oil. My Honda outboard states 5-30 even in summer (I'm in S. FL). My air cooled (read: HOT) generator states 30 or 10-30, even in summer and has a big red warning to NOT use 10-40 or thicker. Even my Toyota truck recommends 5-30 even in summer. The way things are made these days there's just no need for the thicker oil. I think if you stick to the recommendations in the manual you can't go wrong. If thicker oil was better I believe they would have recommended it in the manual.
Eric posted 12-03-2002 09:31 PM ET (US)
I believe that's good advice on heeding the manufacturer specs for oil weight.
Colder air makes more power, since it is denser: more oxygen molecules per volume of air.
RWM posted 12-03-2002 10:55 PM ET (US)
It's only anecdotal, but I think I shortened the life on my Honda 750 by using Castrol 20W-50 several years ago instead of the recommended lighter 10W-30 weight oil. I too thought the 20W-50 would be "better". Hence my research (asking people who work with engines) which over the years has confirmed a consensus that nowadays using too heavy an oil inhibits optimum lubrication. Even in Florida.
Best Regards...Bob M.
P.S. Temp as I write this is 15 deg. F, with ice and snow on my boat. Link to Big Pine Key (where the house is rented to someone else) shows tomorrows temp at 81, sunny with light breeze. WHAAAAANGH!!!!!
Clark Roberts posted 12-04-2002 08:08 AM ET (US)
Using oil thicker than mfg. recommendations is not a good idea especially in a new engine! An older well worn engine might be tolerant. A vertically mounted,in line four stroker is more difficult to lube than one that is horizontally mounted and there is more differential in press top to bottom (cam tower may suffer loss of oiling due to "leak down holes - gravity" bypass)... I'm running a 115 four stroker and would not use oil thicker than recommended and use the factory filter... I get more conservative as I get older... the fewer things to worry about the better! :).. happy Whalin'.. clark.. SCN
Clark Roberts posted 12-04-2002 08:27 AM ET (US)
I spent a full day rigging an oil press gauge for my 115 Merc 4 stroker! I used an automotive sender (with "T" off the oil press switch) and a Tempo 0-100psi gauge..had to shave off a little of the plastic flywheel cover to get clearance for sender. Works like a charm and it's great to ovserve oil press under varying speeds. It runs about 60 psi at idle and about 95psi at speeds over 4K rpm. Clark.. SCN
Steve Leone posted 12-04-2002 09:25 PM ET (US)
Smart move Clark. You should manufacture about 1000 of those and get a usage patent as well. Sell them on-line! Steve
Clark Roberts posted 12-05-2002 04:16 AM ET (US)
Steve, I would loose my shirt if I tried to make any money... just glad to share info with those interested! Surprised that manufacturers don't offer oil press gauges since oil press is the major of the two critical parameters for four strokers (cyl head temp being the other). I haven't warmed up to the Merc "smart craft" engine monitoring system with its many engine sensors and interlocks...
(still have an analog brain and like direct reading gauges with the most critical placed in most prominent and visable location). As a minimum on my two strokers, I have RPM and temp (water press would be good also). On my 4 stroker I have RPM, temp (cyl head), water press and oil press. I'm so screwed up that I installed a temp gauge on each bank of cyls on my Optimax! A direct reading gauge lets you observe what's normal for the engine and to detect a deviation from that norm well before a problem arises. Getting way off track/subject as usual... blah, blah, blah.. happy whalin'.. clark.. SCN

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Author	Topic: Suzuki/Evinrude/ Johnson 4 stroke oil change ideas.
Bigshot	posted 11-25-2002 01:22 PM ET (US) As most know I have a 1999 Evinrude/Suzuki 4 stroke 70hp. This is the same as the 60-70hp made by both Suzuki and Evinrude/Johnson. I have talked to many reps and most have said it is a 1.3L Suzuki Samurai engine that has been modified. So i said hmmmm, I have an oil filter from when i owned a Samurai, wonder if it works. My friend said he uses one in his 60hp Suzuki. So...... I changed my oil Sunday and the Samurai filter is 40% taller and a tad wider but.....it works great. The most important thing is where are the return holes and gasket compared to the screw-in hole. The threads are the same and the distance from the center hole to the flow holes is identical. The Auto filters are about 40 longer(better) and has more flow holes(better). I ran it 3 hours and no leaks. I also ran Quakerstate full synthetic 20w 50 because it was on sale for $2.69/qt. It calls for 10w 40 but what the heck, not as if it gets cold here and with the higher revs and warmer temps, I think she'll be better. For you northerners, stick to the 10w40 or 10w30 if colder operations exist.
jstachowiak	posted 11-27-2002 06:38 PM ET (US) So you admit in public that you owned a Suzuki Samari. HHHMMMMMMMM! What years does that cover? I'm sure that filter must be cheaper than the OMC one. As you know mine is 2001, is that the same engine? Good news as filters and oil are far away from me. How often are you changing oil? Did you see my post about the prop? here it is: "OK, with my new E-Bay $75.00 OMC SST 13 3/8" X 17 Prop, I ran today on "glass-like" St. Johns River, 5,600 RPM's trimmed out, with myself 165lbs. 20 gallons of fuel under the console and my 2 year old daughter, 26lbs. Woweee, does she scream. And hole shot is much improved. Compared to the aluminum 14X19 its like a different rig. Speedo read 37 MPH. Not GPS. Thanks for all the help Bigshot on the prop selection. That's is right, $75.00 Stainless OMC prop on E-Bay. Plus $16 shipping."
Roarque	posted 11-28-2002 09:24 AM ET (US) BigShot, thanks for the tips on oil changes. I have a Suzuki 60 (2001) and the info is timely. Merci from Canada
Eric	posted 12-01-2002 09:50 PM ET (US) the increased oil capacity of the larger filter will lower operating temps a bit, and the increased oil volume should be a good thing for the lifespan of the motor. Good move.
Steve Leone	posted 12-01-2002 11:26 PM ET (US) Nick, I believe the props are interchangable with the Samuri. Might want to hold onto that tune up kit also. With the price of boating I`d save the steering wheel also. By the way I have been pondering foot controls on my Whaler so save those also, what with Jim saying there is going to be tranies on these outboads soon and all. Pop the clutch and burn water? The catalitic converter may come in handy if you plan to use that outboard in California (don`t laugh, thats Honda`s idea on how to get around the emissions standards. Hmmm.....hot ceramics and cold water....Hmmm....) If art mimics life then outboards can and will mimic the auto industry. Above all have fun, Steve
Clark Roberts	posted 12-02-2002 07:29 AM ET (US) A comment on the oil filter...filters that are mounted "side ways" have a check valve to prevent oil leak down (empty filter) when engine is not running. A full filter on start-up prevents dry starts as it takes a few seconds to fill filter! I too owned a Samuri and can't remember if filter was mounted straight up or side ways... My four stroker Merc filter mounts side ways so requires a filter with check valve! BTW, I also owned a Sidekick and currently own a Suzuki X-90 and have owned Suzuki outboards and one of my (many) motorcylces was a Suzike GN 400 (a big single "thumper" that I loved)... It would pay to check out the oil filter check valve.... Happy Whalin'.. Clark.. Spruce Creek Navy
Bigshot	posted 12-02-2002 09:43 AM ET (US) Not positive but I believe it was sideways on my Samurai(which my sister gave me and I drove for a year). As far as a check valve goes, that tiny filter that came off it had very little if no oil in it when removed. If I still have it I will cut it apart and see exactly what I got for the $9 or whatever it cost. Ran it again Wednesday on a fresh water lake and she was flawless. No drips, drops or dreps. Ran my 14x17 alum prop because we had 5 adults and she came close to redline. Does the cold air make these things run better? Should'nt with EFI.
RWM	posted 12-02-2002 08:56 PM ET (US) I would be concerned running the heavier 20W-50 weight oil. The newer engines have closer tolerances in the bearings and need a thinner oil, particularly at startup. For several years automobile engines have called for a 5W-30 and I understand the new ones sometimes call for a 0W (whatever that is, its thinner at cool temperatures). Running a thicker oil is not a good idea, particularly with an engine with only a few hundred hours on it IMO. You just can't get enough oil between the bearing surfaces. Regarding the filter, I too matched it up to several others including couple Toyota engines. I chickened out however and dropped $12 for am OEM Suzuki marine filter. Oh well, only once a year...Bob M.
RWM	posted 12-02-2002 08:59 PM ET (US) By the way, last year I used the OEM Evinrude filter. It was longer and a little wider than the Suzuki OEM filter and was shaped much like the Samari filter (still $12 though).
Bigshot	posted 12-03-2002 10:47 AM ET (US) Bob....like I said if I lived anywhere but FL, I would agree on the 20w-50 issue. Being it calls for 10w-40, down here it can't hurt, especially in the summer. I also think it is better to go heavier than lighter, especially under the stress those engines see. That oil after 83 hours was pretty nasty and thin. Don't be a chicken, I think you are right that the Evinrude and Samurai are identical filters. Suzuki(which is where I get the rude serviced) uses a tiny bugger. I also think that anyone who owns a John/Evin/zuki should have it serviced at a Zuki dealer if possible. I really do not want some OMC now Bombardier was Evinrude now Johnson mechanic fixing my engine. At least the zuki guys deal with them EVERY day, not just since they started selling them last year and only sell 5 4 strokes a year, etc.
Steve Leone	posted 12-03-2002 04:51 PM ET (US) The Suzuki dealer here is doing a booming biz on those four-strokes. What with federal emmission standards and all. Last I heard he had just rigged #172 for the year. Not bad. Methinks someother car mfgs are going to get in the biz. As long as Yugo stays out of it.....
weekendwarrior	posted 12-03-2002 05:37 PM ET (US) I'll second the warning on going too thick on the oil. My Honda outboard states 5-30 even in summer (I'm in S. FL). My air cooled (read: HOT) generator states 30 or 10-30, even in summer and has a big red warning to NOT use 10-40 or thicker. Even my Toyota truck recommends 5-30 even in summer. The way things are made these days there's just no need for the thicker oil. I think if you stick to the recommendations in the manual you can't go wrong. If thicker oil was better I believe they would have recommended it in the manual.
Eric	posted 12-03-2002 09:31 PM ET (US) I believe that's good advice on heeding the manufacturer specs for oil weight. Colder air makes more power, since it is denser: more oxygen molecules per volume of air.
RWM	posted 12-03-2002 10:55 PM ET (US) It's only anecdotal, but I think I shortened the life on my Honda 750 by using Castrol 20W-50 several years ago instead of the recommended lighter 10W-30 weight oil. I too thought the 20W-50 would be "better". Hence my research (asking people who work with engines) which over the years has confirmed a consensus that nowadays using too heavy an oil inhibits optimum lubrication. Even in Florida. Best Regards...Bob M. P.S. Temp as I write this is 15 deg. F, with ice and snow on my boat. Link to Big Pine Key (where the house is rented to someone else) shows tomorrows temp at 81, sunny with light breeze. WHAAAAANGH!!!!!
Clark Roberts	posted 12-04-2002 08:08 AM ET (US) Using oil thicker than mfg. recommendations is not a good idea especially in a new engine! An older well worn engine might be tolerant. A vertically mounted,in line four stroker is more difficult to lube than one that is horizontally mounted and there is more differential in press top to bottom (cam tower may suffer loss of oiling due to "leak down holes - gravity" bypass)... I'm running a 115 four stroker and would not use oil thicker than recommended and use the factory filter... I get more conservative as I get older... the fewer things to worry about the better! :).. happy Whalin'.. clark.. SCN
Clark Roberts	posted 12-04-2002 08:27 AM ET (US) I spent a full day rigging an oil press gauge for my 115 Merc 4 stroker! I used an automotive sender (with "T" off the oil press switch) and a Tempo 0-100psi gauge..had to shave off a little of the plastic flywheel cover to get clearance for sender. Works like a charm and it's great to ovserve oil press under varying speeds. It runs about 60 psi at idle and about 95psi at speeds over 4K rpm. Clark.. SCN
Steve Leone	posted 12-04-2002 09:25 PM ET (US) Smart move Clark. You should manufacture about 1000 of those and get a usage patent as well. Sell them on-line! Steve
Clark Roberts	posted 12-05-2002 04:16 AM ET (US) Steve, I would loose my shirt if I tried to make any money... just glad to share info with those interested! Surprised that manufacturers don't offer oil press gauges since oil press is the major of the two critical parameters for four strokers (cyl head temp being the other). I haven't warmed up to the Merc "smart craft" engine monitoring system with its many engine sensors and interlocks... (still have an analog brain and like direct reading gauges with the most critical placed in most prominent and visable location). As a minimum on my two strokers, I have RPM and temp (water press would be good also). On my 4 stroker I have RPM, temp (cyl head), water press and oil press. I'm so screwed up that I installed a temp gauge on each bank of cyls on my Optimax! A direct reading gauge lets you observe what's normal for the engine and to detect a deviation from that norm well before a problem arises. Getting way off track/subject as usual... blah, blah, blah.. happy whalin'.. clark.. SCN