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ContinuousWave: Whaler Repairs/Mods
What to do when a good boat dies?
|Author||Topic: What to do when a good boat dies?|
posted 06-10-2003 10:17 AM ET (US)
Found out from the marina today that the hull of my 67 Nausset is water logged. This did not come as a huge surprise as it was not taken care of very well before my family got it in the mid eighties. But we got a good six or seven years out of it, then it sat on its trailer for nine years until bringing it out for the first time last summer. The guy at the marina says he won't even try to fix it, and I am sure that I do not have the money to spend to get it fixed right. Anyone have any thoughts on what to do with it? Does anyone know of a fiberglass shop in Northeast Pennsylvania to get a second opinion? Does a 1967 Nausset with a water logged hull have any value to someone? Or does it go to the landfill?
Very sad day.
And of course I spent the entire spring refinishing the mahogany on it.
posted 06-10-2003 10:31 AM ET (US)
LB, you should try to save her. There have been several methods bantered about here on the forum. A search should produce good results. The first thing I would do, is weigh the boat. This will tell you how much "weight" you've gained, and should also indicate "how" saturated it really is. I've seen some pretty rough Whalers that sat in the water for many years that came back looking like new and are still in use.
Secondly, experiment. Try different methods to dry her, and then try the repair. You may even try to do the repair yourself. jimh has some great articles published here on fiberglass/epoxy repairs that will at least give you an idea of what you would be up against.
Hate to see a good one go. By the way, Whalers don't go to the landfill: they go to another owner, who fixes her up.
posted 06-10-2003 11:03 AM ET (US)
How does he know it's water logged? Did he weigh it? Is it sitting really low in the water? Or did a few drops of water come out of a screw hole?
I guess it could happen but it's hard to imagine, unless there's an obvious hole, that after nine years on a trailer and one summer in the water that its water logged. Was it covered on the trailer? If not, was the plug out?
posted 06-10-2003 11:12 AM ET (US)
Just because he drilled a couple holes and found wet foam does not mean it is waterlogged. Get a 2nd opinion.
posted 06-10-2003 11:20 AM ET (US)
I appreciate the comments so far. I am planning on getting a second opinion, but I just cannot spend tons of money on this boat. I have no idea what something like this can cost, and I have absolutely no knowledge or time to tackle something like this myself. I enjoy having it, and I appreciate that I have it. I am just not sure that it makes sense to throw money, I don't have, at a 35-year-old boat.
Who knows, maybe the next guy I take it to will tell me something different. If in the end I decide to get rid of it, I promise I won't landfill it.
posted 06-10-2003 12:22 PM ET (US)
Unless its sitting so low in the water that water is coming over the gunwales, just patch any and all holes and run it until it dies a natural old death in about forty years.
posted 06-10-2003 12:29 PM ET (US)
If water is not coming in the rain hole in th esplash well, it definately is not waterlogged. With my heavy 4 stroke I get about 1/8 of an inch in my splashwell at rest. How much do you get? Do you grow slime in the splashwell?
posted 06-10-2003 12:47 PM ET (US)
Weigh her. If she weighs over 650lb. . .
Minimum cost: Drill a series of 1/4" holes into the foam through the keel. Put her on blocks in the back yard with a black poly cover. Wait a few months. Weigh her again. WOW!! You can speed this up by attaching a vacuum pump to a hole at one end and/or low pressure air (5psi.) to one at the other end.
Repair the holes in the keel by whatever method you choose, and any other penetrations of the outer and inner hulls. If the keel is eroded, add a KeelGard.
That's a start.
Red sky at night. . .
posted 06-10-2003 12:48 PM ET (US)
What brought this whole thing on is I have three gouges (1" x 3")in the side of the boat (below the water line through the fiberglass and into the foam. This happened overnight last fall when the boat broke free from its mooring in a storm, I had the boat out of the water the next day and covered with a tarp during the winter. When I brought it in this spring to have them repair the damage, that is when they told me that when they touched the foam it was wet. They then went around the boat and felt another part where there was a spider crack, and it felt squishy. They then said they did not want to fix it, because they felt any repair would just fall apart by the end of the summer.
I don't know how absorbative (is that a word?) the foam is, but I guess water could have gotten into the hull during the 12 hours or so that it sat in the water, and sat there all winter.
The boat has not ever sat low in the water, I can't recall ever seeing water in the splashwell, let alone slime.
Maybe this isn't as bad as I originally thought, but it still sounds like it will cost a lot of money. Maybe I should bring it home, tarp it up and wait until I can afford to have it fixed.
Can anyone recommend a good video series on fiberglass repair. I know there are a lot of good books, but I tend to learn better visually.
Thank you all for your support. Like I said maybe this is not as bad as I originally thought. And if anyone knows someone in NE PA that does this type of work I would appreciate recommendations
posted 06-10-2003 01:00 PM ET (US)
Maybe they want to take that waterlogged boat with finished magohany off you hands for a couple hundred bucks. Maybe they then want to fix it and use it themselves. I bet the see a diamond in the rough, or a gem on the trailer.
posted 06-10-2003 01:43 PM ET (US)
I like JB's idea. Quick and pretty easy to do. Certainly worth a try.
posted 06-10-2003 03:08 PM ET (US)
DON"T DO ANYTHING!
Foam would not absorb that quick....maybe 12 months but not 12 hours. Spider cracked squishy area is common. Most spider cracks are squishy because of the foam nolonger being bonded to the glass, not because of water in between. reapair the damage however you can(marine-tex, etc) and use the boat. These guys are yanking your chain.
posted 06-10-2003 03:52 PM ET (US)
It is probably something you can tackle with the information and advice on this website and time and effort.
If you do not want to get involved in the work let me know, I'll buy it. I am looking for a good project.
posted 06-10-2003 04:59 PM ET (US)
Like Bigshot says - at 12 hours exposure - the foam is non-absorbent. Your three gouges sounds like similar to the damage I had. Be sure to see the article on 'Repairing Hull Damage the Whaler Way' in the Reference section of this website.
posted 06-10-2003 06:03 PM ET (US)
For complete peace of mind, you can pay me $200 to drive by your way and haul that ole piece o' crap, water-logged boat out o' your sight f'ever! Ah'll even include the busted old engine and rusty old trailer into the bargain. Or you can do as the wiser members here has already suggested. Do a li'l or do nothin but ensure she ain't got any open holes left t'the elements. Then use that puppy for another 20 years or so. Your choice. Ah can't keep this offer open f'EVER:-!
posted 06-11-2003 12:08 AM ET (US)
The foam will not absorb enough water in 12 hours to do damage. Water has to be driven into the hull at high speed via a crack into the foam or a blown drain tube. If there is water in that hull it was there long before you bought it.
JB has the right method to dry out the hull. While it is good to get the hull as dry as possible, you may not be able to get all the water out. The nice thing about water is that it obeys the law of gravity. When you have drained the hull as much as possible set the area to be repaired so that any residual water runs away from it, and let it dry as long as you can. Repair it via the usual methods. You may be sealing some water inside but it doesn't matter much, as long as the boat isn't so heavy that water comes over the gun'ls.
posted 06-11-2003 09:09 PM ET (US)
I paid $5.00 to weigh my Outrage at a local sand and gravel pit. Joe
posted 06-11-2003 11:02 PM ET (US)
The marina want's your boat! They have a way to get a used Whaler cheap! I've seen Whalers with all kinds of below waterline damage. The water absorbtion into the foam is never as bad as one would make you believe. But if you are concerned,the best way to dry it out is 3 small holes in the keel at the transom. Raise the bow as far as safely you can. In a week or two about 90% of any water will be gone. Over time the foam will separate ever so slightly from the hull allowing passage of water along the keel.
posted 06-12-2003 04:11 PM ET (US)
You all have talked me off the ledge and given me a lot of good suggestions. I will report back after the weekend when I go to pick up the boat. I bought some Mairne-Tex and some silcone sealant to work on the gouges. I am going to seal up the holes, weigh it and put it in the water for the summer. Come fall, I will try drilling holes in the hull and draining it.
Once again I appreciate all of your advise.
posted 06-12-2003 05:10 PM ET (US)
I wouldn't use silicone and marinetex for the repairs- I'm not sure where it is, but someone here wrote a detailed repair procedure on how to fix your boat. It wouldn't take that much longer to do it right and probably ward off further moisture intrusion.
posted 06-12-2003 06:00 PM ET (US)
The repair article is here: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/whalerRepair.html
The instructions we followed are here:
If the gouges are through to the foam and bigger than your finger, I would not recommend Marine Tex either, since it does not have any structural properties. On the other hand, its important to get the gouges sealed, so it might work temporarily.
Working with polyester resin is not hard, and the part of our repair that included grinding and the first two layers of glass was easily accomplished in less than a day. The time consuming part was fairing the repair and sanding out the gelcoat.
posted 06-12-2003 07:31 PM ET (US)
Okay, once again thank you for the good advice. I will try to get the materials you mention in the article. I noticed that Home Depot has the Bondo line of resins and fabric. Are these a good line of products, or should I go to the West products? If I can use the Bondo products I can probably get started this weekend.
posted 06-13-2003 12:51 PM ET (US)
I answered my own question, Bondo products appear to be orthophthalic not isophthalic. And the West System is epoxy not polyesther resin. I think I am getting the handle of all this stuff. Are the TAP line of products any good? Any other suggestions?
posted 06-13-2003 03:27 PM ET (US)
I'm not familar with Bondo except for the stuff used to fix car dents.
West Marine (or equivelent) ought to have polyester supplies as well as West System (no relation to West Marine) epoxy products.
Just so you know, just like the varnish vs oil debate... there is a raging polyester resin vs epoxy resin debate. West System has done an excellent job with instructions and portions and packages to make use of epoxy much easier, and in my view that contributes to epoxy populatity, and West System cost and ease of use.
My pereference is for polyester, and Tom Clark (who was advising me) felt strongly that this was the correct material.
posted 06-13-2003 03:44 PM ET (US)
Your water damage is most likely very localized; I bet you don't have a big problem. Focus on drying the areas where you had some gelcoat damage. Same thing happened to me and I dried these areas out and went on. Like most of these other guys said, If your not riding low in the water you probably don't have a big problem. I used a household portable dehumidifier to dry out my problem areas.
posted 06-13-2003 07:48 PM ET (US)
You can buy polyester resin from West Marine, and it's cheaper than epoxy.
posted 06-15-2003 08:20 AM ET (US)
You know your story relates to mine. My Montauk USED TO BE a Nauset until someone didn't know what they had and made her a Montauk and screwed her up. So to make a long story short:
She had a crack in the bottom because it pounded waves for all these years (shes a 1966). And so she was waterlogged. So what I did to further exemplify the drying in her, I got my dad to help me and we turned her over in our yard and we Sand Blasted her bottom. I assumed that helped.
What I also did to mine was put paper towels where the crack was because it sucked water a little bit to help.
Also I had the guy who painted my Montauk fix the floor too. He fixed it inside and out. He dug part of the floor out and re-foamed her inside in the spot and fixed it.
Good as new!
posted 06-15-2003 08:25 AM ET (US)
(Sorry for the secondary posting here!)
LakeBoy, If you would like to read up on my story and my pic (note: pic) Its in the Cetacea page #73. Thanks!
posted 06-19-2003 11:16 AM ET (US)
Hey there,don't despair!
I have a 1964 Nauset that some guy used in his mooring business in Long Island. It is
posted 06-20-2003 12:56 AM ET (US)
A couple weeks ago I had the oppertunity to ride on the Half Whaler... I helped to put it back on the trailer too... If any Whaler were most likely to get "water logged" this would be the one... I inspected the foam while it was on the trailer and found no signs of softening or water aborbtion... I have had my Nauset for 30 years (in the family anyways) and it has had screw holes open for years... Even had the brass splash well tube missing for quite some time... It has been outside every day since we got it (back in 1971)... To this day it sits in the water at the same level (put a small perminant ink line on the outside transom many years ago)... Why don't you just go launch the boat and see where it sits in the water before you accept the "water logged" theory... Ya just might find you can't tell any difference from where it used to sit pre accident days... If so then just patch the holes and use the heck out of it... :)
posted 06-29-2003 03:02 PM ET (US)
if you want to be sure cotact a marine consultant or insurance ajuster. they can put a moisture meter and find exactly were your water logged. so u will know were to drill holes to dry it out. hope that helps
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