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Author Topic:   Fuel Starvation - Anti Siphon Valve?

tomroe posted 06-15-2003 10:31 AM ET (US)
My 235 Evinrude is fuel starved once on plane, must be either the fuel pump or possibly the anti siphon valve (ASV). I was told that if there was dirt etc. in it, it may not open all the way. I took the back cover off to expose the fuel tank and removed the fitting going onto the tank. Not much fuel was in the line so I think the ASV might be the problem. Also a minor amount of dirt on the screen in the fitting. I presume that if I take off the round cover to the tank that the ASV will be accessible. ANY ideas or cautions before I dive into this (this afternoon). Thanks
Sal DiMercurio posted 06-15-2003 01:32 PM ET (US)
If theres a filter anywhere, i'd start there.
ASV is easy.
Sal
tomroe posted 06-16-2003 12:18 AM ET (US)
Replaced the water separator filter and inline filter on the engine. Replaced the fuel pump with one from a blown power head I have, however this fuel pump also had oil injection and forgot to plug the oil injection intake. Got fed up after a while and will tackle tomorrow. By the way, moving the engine up one hole seemed make a big difference getting up on plane and minimized the porpoising. So is the ASV right below the fuel tank cover? For some reason the fuel tank cover and the deck access cover don’t line up, making it a little more difficult.
Sal DiMercurio posted 06-16-2003 01:32 AM ET (US)
Ray, sometimes the ASV & pickup are farther back then the access cover, I know, it's a pain in the rear but thats the way it is.
You will be fine.
Sal
triblet posted 06-16-2003 11:46 AM ET (US)
Kinked hose? (been there on the old FireChicken)
or Quick Release bleeding air in? (been there
on the Montauk).
You can check to see if it's the fuel pump
by pumping the bulb like crazy.

Chuck
tomroe posted 06-16-2003 11:50 AM ET (US)
If my son keeps pumping the fuel bulb we keep going, if not the engine dies. Probably the fuel pump.
lhg posted 06-16-2003 05:20 PM ET (US)
Whalers don't have an anti-siphon valve, at least my 1986 and 1989 Outrages didn't.
Unless your fuel pump is shot, your problem sounds like a bad primer bulb. Try replacing it. The ones by Attwood are really good, available at Walmart for $5.
tomroe posted 06-16-2003 07:24 PM ET (US)
I replaced the bulb and all filters, it must be the pump. If there is no anti siphon valve, what is under the inspection cover?
rsgwynn1 posted 06-16-2003 08:12 PM ET (US)
I had the same problem last summer after installing a FloScan senson between the fuel/water separator and the tank. After replacing fuel pump, filters, etc. I found that the problem was a 12" section of fuel line--it was of a weaker grade than the rest of the line and it was apparently contracting under suction.
tomroe posted 06-16-2003 08:22 PM ET (US)
Well..replacing tghe fuel lines might be a good idea, I'll try that too. Thanks.
tomroe posted 06-16-2003 08:23 PM ET (US)
the fuel lines.
rubadub555 posted 06-16-2003 08:25 PM ET (US)
Is your gas tank under the RPS,
and if so,
is it sliding aft to pinch the fuel line as you plane?
tomroe posted 06-17-2003 09:27 AM ET (US)
No, the tank is in the floor and secure.
Smallfrye posted 06-17-2003 11:03 AM ET (US)
Try removing the fuel line from the motor and priming to start the fuel flow. If the fuel line is moved or extended below the fuel tank level, it will continue to siphon, if not there is an obstruction in the fuel system. Inspect each connection from the bulb, moving toward the tank. Open, clean, etc. each connection, replacing filters if needed.
If the fuel continues to siphon, rebuild your fuel pump. ($15 kit) Many times after decarbonizing, carbon trash is sucked into the filter membranes. The rebuild is simple.
Sray clean the carbs and lines to remove the possibility of water contamination. IF this doesn't fix the problem, a carb rebuild may be needed. ($35 kit)
good luck, Jim
tomroe posted 06-21-2003 10:46 PM ET (US)
I am not having good success. Carbs are rebuilt, all new fuel line, primer bulb and filters, new fuel pump, new plugs, de-carbonized. No more fuel starvation and idles much better, but it just won't run right at WOT. Compression is good and all cylinders have good spark. It appears that the two bottom cylinders are not firing correctly. Any ideas?
Sal DiMercurio posted 06-22-2003 01:27 AM ET (US)
Tom, that engine is a late 80s era [ at least 23 years old ], could be spark plug wires, coils, or pulse pack.
Sal
tomroe posted 06-22-2003 08:43 AM ET (US)
Sal,
Yes, it's a 1985. That makes it two years younger than my oldest son who is in college, which is why I don't go buy a new one. No complaints, I'm glad he is in school and we are working on th e235 together. Thanks, I'll try that.
lhg posted 06-23-2003 03:05 PM ET (US)
Late 80's OMC's are notorious for high speed stator problems. I'm betting on that if it won't go over 3500 RPM.
Sal DiMercurio posted 06-23-2003 04:35 PM ET (US)
I think Ihg is close.
Either pull the flywheel or put your fingers up under it & see if theres any gell coming out of the stator.
If so, thats your problem.
Could even be bad without the gell coming out.
Sal
tomroe posted 06-23-2003 05:02 PM ET (US)
That sounds like it. I'll check for gel tonight, but yes about 3500 is all there is. It doesn't look like a fun procedure to replace. Thanks for the help.
tomroe posted 06-23-2003 05:05 PM ET (US)
I would really like to get myself off the 'Repairs / Mods' page and on to the 'Performance' page.
Sal DiMercurio posted 06-23-2003 06:50 PM ET (US)
Tom, you will, then you can come back & answer some of these questions, as the older you get, the more your supposed to know,.....i think.
Good luck on that stator.
Sal
lhg posted 06-23-2003 10:19 PM ET (US)
I had a friend with a pair of 1990 OMC 200's on his boat. Between them, over a period of 4 years, he went though about 5 stators. I think they had a bad run of those parts at the time. Mercury V-6's of the period (89-90) also tended to have problems with them. Maybe they were using the same vendor!
tomroe posted 06-24-2003 04:30 PM ET (US)
OK - I removed the stator from the blown 235 powerhead that I have. It looks alright with no gel or fluid leakage. Is there anything else I should replace on the good motor as long as I have the flywheel off?
Jamie 20 outrage posted 06-24-2003 09:15 PM ET (US)
Just make sure your flywheel magnets on whichever flywheel you use are evenly spaced and not loose. It happens all the time on the older OMCs.
tomroe posted 06-28-2003 02:13 PM ET (US)
You guys are good, I pulled the flywheel and most of the magnets stayed on the stator. Replaced the stator and flywheel but it won't start now. Checked spark and it is good on all cylinders and it is getting fuel. I'm hoping it is very flooded. No more time today I'll let it sit and try tomorrow.

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Author	Topic: Fuel Starvation - Anti Siphon Valve?
tomroe	posted 06-15-2003 10:31 AM ET (US) My 235 Evinrude is fuel starved once on plane, must be either the fuel pump or possibly the anti siphon valve (ASV). I was told that if there was dirt etc. in it, it may not open all the way. I took the back cover off to expose the fuel tank and removed the fitting going onto the tank. Not much fuel was in the line so I think the ASV might be the problem. Also a minor amount of dirt on the screen in the fitting. I presume that if I take off the round cover to the tank that the ASV will be accessible. ANY ideas or cautions before I dive into this (this afternoon). Thanks
Sal DiMercurio	posted 06-15-2003 01:32 PM ET (US) If theres a filter anywhere, i'd start there. ASV is easy. Sal
tomroe	posted 06-16-2003 12:18 AM ET (US) Replaced the water separator filter and inline filter on the engine. Replaced the fuel pump with one from a blown power head I have, however this fuel pump also had oil injection and forgot to plug the oil injection intake. Got fed up after a while and will tackle tomorrow. By the way, moving the engine up one hole seemed make a big difference getting up on plane and minimized the porpoising. So is the ASV right below the fuel tank cover? For some reason the fuel tank cover and the deck access cover don’t line up, making it a little more difficult.
Sal DiMercurio	posted 06-16-2003 01:32 AM ET (US) Ray, sometimes the ASV & pickup are farther back then the access cover, I know, it's a pain in the rear but thats the way it is. You will be fine. Sal
triblet	posted 06-16-2003 11:46 AM ET (US) Kinked hose? (been there on the old FireChicken) or Quick Release bleeding air in? (been there on the Montauk). You can check to see if it's the fuel pump by pumping the bulb like crazy. Chuck
tomroe	posted 06-16-2003 11:50 AM ET (US) If my son keeps pumping the fuel bulb we keep going, if not the engine dies. Probably the fuel pump.
lhg	posted 06-16-2003 05:20 PM ET (US) Whalers don't have an anti-siphon valve, at least my 1986 and 1989 Outrages didn't. Unless your fuel pump is shot, your problem sounds like a bad primer bulb. Try replacing it. The ones by Attwood are really good, available at Walmart for $5.
tomroe	posted 06-16-2003 07:24 PM ET (US) I replaced the bulb and all filters, it must be the pump. If there is no anti siphon valve, what is under the inspection cover?
rsgwynn1	posted 06-16-2003 08:12 PM ET (US) I had the same problem last summer after installing a FloScan senson between the fuel/water separator and the tank. After replacing fuel pump, filters, etc. I found that the problem was a 12" section of fuel line--it was of a weaker grade than the rest of the line and it was apparently contracting under suction.
tomroe	posted 06-16-2003 08:22 PM ET (US) Well..replacing tghe fuel lines might be a good idea, I'll try that too. Thanks.
tomroe	posted 06-16-2003 08:23 PM ET (US) the fuel lines.
rubadub555	posted 06-16-2003 08:25 PM ET (US) Is your gas tank under the RPS, and if so, is it sliding aft to pinch the fuel line as you plane?
tomroe	posted 06-17-2003 09:27 AM ET (US) No, the tank is in the floor and secure.
Smallfrye	posted 06-17-2003 11:03 AM ET (US) Try removing the fuel line from the motor and priming to start the fuel flow. If the fuel line is moved or extended below the fuel tank level, it will continue to siphon, if not there is an obstruction in the fuel system. Inspect each connection from the bulb, moving toward the tank. Open, clean, etc. each connection, replacing filters if needed. If the fuel continues to siphon, rebuild your fuel pump. ($15 kit) Many times after decarbonizing, carbon trash is sucked into the filter membranes. The rebuild is simple. Sray clean the carbs and lines to remove the possibility of water contamination. IF this doesn't fix the problem, a carb rebuild may be needed. ($35 kit) good luck, Jim
tomroe	posted 06-21-2003 10:46 PM ET (US) I am not having good success. Carbs are rebuilt, all new fuel line, primer bulb and filters, new fuel pump, new plugs, de-carbonized. No more fuel starvation and idles much better, but it just won't run right at WOT. Compression is good and all cylinders have good spark. It appears that the two bottom cylinders are not firing correctly. Any ideas?
Sal DiMercurio	posted 06-22-2003 01:27 AM ET (US) Tom, that engine is a late 80s era [ at least 23 years old ], could be spark plug wires, coils, or pulse pack. Sal
tomroe	posted 06-22-2003 08:43 AM ET (US) Sal, Yes, it's a 1985. That makes it two years younger than my oldest son who is in college, which is why I don't go buy a new one. No complaints, I'm glad he is in school and we are working on th e235 together. Thanks, I'll try that.
lhg	posted 06-23-2003 03:05 PM ET (US) Late 80's OMC's are notorious for high speed stator problems. I'm betting on that if it won't go over 3500 RPM.
Sal DiMercurio	posted 06-23-2003 04:35 PM ET (US) I think Ihg is close. Either pull the flywheel or put your fingers up under it & see if theres any gell coming out of the stator. If so, thats your problem. Could even be bad without the gell coming out. Sal
tomroe	posted 06-23-2003 05:02 PM ET (US) That sounds like it. I'll check for gel tonight, but yes about 3500 is all there is. It doesn't look like a fun procedure to replace. Thanks for the help.
tomroe	posted 06-23-2003 05:05 PM ET (US) I would really like to get myself off the 'Repairs / Mods' page and on to the 'Performance' page.
Sal DiMercurio	posted 06-23-2003 06:50 PM ET (US) Tom, you will, then you can come back & answer some of these questions, as the older you get, the more your supposed to know,.....i think. Good luck on that stator. Sal
lhg	posted 06-23-2003 10:19 PM ET (US) I had a friend with a pair of 1990 OMC 200's on his boat. Between them, over a period of 4 years, he went though about 5 stators. I think they had a bad run of those parts at the time. Mercury V-6's of the period (89-90) also tended to have problems with them. Maybe they were using the same vendor!
tomroe	posted 06-24-2003 04:30 PM ET (US) OK - I removed the stator from the blown 235 powerhead that I have. It looks alright with no gel or fluid leakage. Is there anything else I should replace on the good motor as long as I have the flywheel off?
Jamie 20 outrage	posted 06-24-2003 09:15 PM ET (US) Just make sure your flywheel magnets on whichever flywheel you use are evenly spaced and not loose. It happens all the time on the older OMCs.
tomroe	posted 06-28-2003 02:13 PM ET (US) You guys are good, I pulled the flywheel and most of the magnets stayed on the stator. Replaced the stator and flywheel but it won't start now. Checked spark and it is good on all cylinders and it is getting fuel. I'm hoping it is very flooded. No more time today I'll let it sit and try tomorrow.