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Author Topic:   20' outrage leans to port underway

discoduck posted 06-24-2003 06:43 PM ET (US)
I recently purchased a 20' outrage. The boat is a 1986 and the hull is in pretty good shape. There is a 86 200 hp yamaha on it as well. I just can't understand why it leans to the port side while underway. In the well it sits level. The boat also has a tendency to pull to the starboard a little. I'm fairly an inexperienced boater and could use some help on solving this problem. Thanks Brett
Buckda posted 06-24-2003 06:50 PM ET (US)
Does the boat lean while at wide open throttle (WOT) - or at all speeds while underway?
This could be a bit of torque steer you have going.
discoduck posted 06-24-2003 06:52 PM ET (US)
The boat leans at all speeds after she planes off.
specktrout posted 06-24-2003 08:06 PM ET (US)
There could be a few real common reasons for leaning to port:
1. Most common is steering torque. As the engine spins the prop one way, it is also trying to spin the boat the other. If it is this, it usually gets worse the more you increase the RPM's.
2. Do you have a large amount of weight off-center in the boat. Large heavy items such as batteries, livewell tanks etc, which are not midline can shift the boat over. Are you standing in the center of the boat when you steer or do you lean way over?
3. Does the engine have some kind of after-market hydrofoil (BIG fin on the lower unit of the engine). For whatever reason these always seem to make steering torque worse (at least on my montauk)
4. Check the skeg (fin under the prop. These can be surprisingly easy to bend from impacts or just leaving the engine down while trailering or pulling out at the ramp. Sometimes a fairly small bend can produce pretty noticeable effects.
Well, that's my 2-cents. Hope it helps-
Jamie 20 outrage posted 06-24-2003 08:54 PM ET (US)
I just bought a V-20 outrage 1979 with a 200 Yamaha 1985 and dont have any leaning at all. Specktrout covered the possibilities well. The boat came with a SS 17M prop and I turn 5k. I am currently looking for a 15 prop to get closer to 5500. I hope you are as happy as I am.
discoduck posted 06-24-2003 09:36 PM ET (US)
I think it might be steering torque causing the leaning problem. It does appear to make it lean a little more as the rpms increase. So do you think I need to change props? How do I correct this torque problem causing it to list to port? Thanks Brett
doobee posted 06-24-2003 11:25 PM ET (US)
The list is most likely caused by torque. If you have a transom mount transducer, it should be mounted to the left of the engine. It doesn't sound like much, but it can make a difference.
Trim tabs would certainly solve the problem, as well as enhance the boat's performance.
There is a very small chance of a hull defect. Take a straight edge (at least 3' long) and place it on the bottom at the transom. With the straight edge aligned fore and aft, slide it from the bottom of the V up toward the chines. If you sight along the straight edge while you do this, you may detect high or low spots on the bottom, which could cause a list, or even porpoising in extreme circumstances. There was a flaw in some of the 20' and 22' molds that did appear on a very limited number of hulls of that vintage.
It is not a structural problem and can be easily repaired.
lhg posted 06-25-2003 04:02 PM ET (US)
List caused by propellor torque can really only be countered by adjusting weight in the boat, people and loads, unless you have trim tabs and can "lift" the port stern only. Batteries, kicker engines, oil tanks should all be on the starboard side. That's why boats have steering wheels opposite of cars, why BW's always have the batteries and rigging cables on starboard, etc. Even driving alone in the boat, one usually has to stand on the starboard side of the console, not behind the wheel.
The other thing that causes boats to lean is a crosswind. They lean INTO the wind, and when it's from Port, it's even worse. Use passenger position to counter this loading. I have found I usually have to tell passengers where to stand/sit, as most are completely oblivious to this situation!
gnr posted 06-25-2003 04:17 PM ET (US)
I recently helped a friend get his dad's old boat (non-whaler) out of storage.
We got it on the water and found it had a severe list to starboard while under way. Closer inspection revealed an improperly installed transducer on the port side of the transom which left half of the transducer and and about 3/4 inch of mounting bracket extending below the transom.
We removed the transducer and the list is gone.
You probably are experiencing the steering torque thing but take a look at whatever you might have mounted on the transom.
It doesn't take much to throw thing out of kilter.
george nagy posted 06-25-2003 04:35 PM ET (US)
When I went to a counter-rotating motor my 18' outrage hull lists to the starboard now. I would bet it is torgue steer. I think that after I installed the transducer on the port side it increased the list.
Sal DiMercurio posted 06-25-2003 09:45 PM ET (US)
These guys covered it pretty good, but didn't tell you how to correct the boat from pulling to one side.
Right above your prop is the antivent plate, at the very rear end of that plate on the bottom is a little tab.
The tab is held in place by a bolt coming through thetop.
Loosen the bolt & turn that tab a little in the direction the boat is pulling, that should correct it, it not, turn it more until it stops pulling.
I think all boats especially the v20s lean a bit, it's caused from the prop turning to the right & pushing the port side down a bit, it's called prop torque.
As Ihg pointed out, try & counter ballance the weight as I did, I out both of my group 29 batteries [ about 50 lbs each ] in front of the consel on the starboard side, rides flat as a pank cake now.
Sal
Sal DiMercurio posted 06-25-2003 09:57 PM ET (US)
I also own a V 79 V 20 outrage with a 200 DFI Evinrude that runs at 60 mph.
When using the boat on the rivers I can run a 14.25 x 21p S/S Stiletto, but when fishing the ocean, I run a 14.25 x 19 for a better bite in heavy seas.
Somethings not right with your engine if your only getting 5,000 rpms at wot trimmed out.
My engine when rigged for the rivers is up in the 3rd set of holes, & I drop her down to the second set of holes for the whole summer when I fish the ocean.
I'm certain your engine is sitting way down on the top holes,....raise it 2 holes & i,m certain you will get very close to 5,500 rpms.
That 19p is the right pitch for your application, but if it's the stock off the shelf Yamaha prop, i'd opt for a 14.25 x 19 S/S Stiletto.
It's a performance prop & should give your rig a totally different ride & a bit more speed.
If you order a Stiletto, they don't hub them for Yamahas but the Merc hub fits Yamaha so order it for a Merc.
Sal
discoduck posted 06-25-2003 10:09 PM ET (US)
Thanks to everyone for the advice. I really appreciate the quick replies. I do have a transducer mounted on the starboard side and I will check it over thoroughly and probably just slide it up as far as it will go for a test run. I double checked the weight balance and most of it is right down the middle. I have two batteries in the middle of the console. The Oil tank is located on the port side in the console which is not very heavy but might help to move over to port. Thats really about it. I will check the transducer over and if that don't help it, I'll have a set of trim tabs installed over the winter. Thanks again Brett

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Author	Topic: 20' outrage leans to port underway
discoduck	posted 06-24-2003 06:43 PM ET (US) I recently purchased a 20' outrage. The boat is a 1986 and the hull is in pretty good shape. There is a 86 200 hp yamaha on it as well. I just can't understand why it leans to the port side while underway. In the well it sits level. The boat also has a tendency to pull to the starboard a little. I'm fairly an inexperienced boater and could use some help on solving this problem. Thanks Brett
Buckda	posted 06-24-2003 06:50 PM ET (US) Does the boat lean while at wide open throttle (WOT) - or at all speeds while underway? This could be a bit of torque steer you have going.
discoduck	posted 06-24-2003 06:52 PM ET (US) The boat leans at all speeds after she planes off.
specktrout	posted 06-24-2003 08:06 PM ET (US) There could be a few real common reasons for leaning to port: 1. Most common is steering torque. As the engine spins the prop one way, it is also trying to spin the boat the other. If it is this, it usually gets worse the more you increase the RPM's. 2. Do you have a large amount of weight off-center in the boat. Large heavy items such as batteries, livewell tanks etc, which are not midline can shift the boat over. Are you standing in the center of the boat when you steer or do you lean way over? 3. Does the engine have some kind of after-market hydrofoil (BIG fin on the lower unit of the engine). For whatever reason these always seem to make steering torque worse (at least on my montauk) 4. Check the skeg (fin under the prop. These can be surprisingly easy to bend from impacts or just leaving the engine down while trailering or pulling out at the ramp. Sometimes a fairly small bend can produce pretty noticeable effects. Well, that's my 2-cents. Hope it helps-
Jamie 20 outrage	posted 06-24-2003 08:54 PM ET (US) I just bought a V-20 outrage 1979 with a 200 Yamaha 1985 and dont have any leaning at all. Specktrout covered the possibilities well. The boat came with a SS 17M prop and I turn 5k. I am currently looking for a 15 prop to get closer to 5500. I hope you are as happy as I am.
discoduck	posted 06-24-2003 09:36 PM ET (US) I think it might be steering torque causing the leaning problem. It does appear to make it lean a little more as the rpms increase. So do you think I need to change props? How do I correct this torque problem causing it to list to port? Thanks Brett
doobee	posted 06-24-2003 11:25 PM ET (US) The list is most likely caused by torque. If you have a transom mount transducer, it should be mounted to the left of the engine. It doesn't sound like much, but it can make a difference. Trim tabs would certainly solve the problem, as well as enhance the boat's performance. There is a very small chance of a hull defect. Take a straight edge (at least 3' long) and place it on the bottom at the transom. With the straight edge aligned fore and aft, slide it from the bottom of the V up toward the chines. If you sight along the straight edge while you do this, you may detect high or low spots on the bottom, which could cause a list, or even porpoising in extreme circumstances. There was a flaw in some of the 20' and 22' molds that did appear on a very limited number of hulls of that vintage. It is not a structural problem and can be easily repaired.
lhg	posted 06-25-2003 04:02 PM ET (US) List caused by propellor torque can really only be countered by adjusting weight in the boat, people and loads, unless you have trim tabs and can "lift" the port stern only. Batteries, kicker engines, oil tanks should all be on the starboard side. That's why boats have steering wheels opposite of cars, why BW's always have the batteries and rigging cables on starboard, etc. Even driving alone in the boat, one usually has to stand on the starboard side of the console, not behind the wheel. The other thing that causes boats to lean is a crosswind. They lean INTO the wind, and when it's from Port, it's even worse. Use passenger position to counter this loading. I have found I usually have to tell passengers where to stand/sit, as most are completely oblivious to this situation!
gnr	posted 06-25-2003 04:17 PM ET (US) I recently helped a friend get his dad's old boat (non-whaler) out of storage. We got it on the water and found it had a severe list to starboard while under way. Closer inspection revealed an improperly installed transducer on the port side of the transom which left half of the transducer and and about 3/4 inch of mounting bracket extending below the transom. We removed the transducer and the list is gone. You probably are experiencing the steering torque thing but take a look at whatever you might have mounted on the transom. It doesn't take much to throw thing out of kilter.
george nagy	posted 06-25-2003 04:35 PM ET (US) When I went to a counter-rotating motor my 18' outrage hull lists to the starboard now. I would bet it is torgue steer. I think that after I installed the transducer on the port side it increased the list.
Sal DiMercurio	posted 06-25-2003 09:45 PM ET (US) These guys covered it pretty good, but didn't tell you how to correct the boat from pulling to one side. Right above your prop is the antivent plate, at the very rear end of that plate on the bottom is a little tab. The tab is held in place by a bolt coming through thetop. Loosen the bolt & turn that tab a little in the direction the boat is pulling, that should correct it, it not, turn it more until it stops pulling. I think all boats especially the v20s lean a bit, it's caused from the prop turning to the right & pushing the port side down a bit, it's called prop torque. As Ihg pointed out, try & counter ballance the weight as I did, I out both of my group 29 batteries [ about 50 lbs each ] in front of the consel on the starboard side, rides flat as a pank cake now. Sal
Sal DiMercurio	posted 06-25-2003 09:57 PM ET (US) I also own a V 79 V 20 outrage with a 200 DFI Evinrude that runs at 60 mph. When using the boat on the rivers I can run a 14.25 x 21p S/S Stiletto, but when fishing the ocean, I run a 14.25 x 19 for a better bite in heavy seas. Somethings not right with your engine if your only getting 5,000 rpms at wot trimmed out. My engine when rigged for the rivers is up in the 3rd set of holes, & I drop her down to the second set of holes for the whole summer when I fish the ocean. I'm certain your engine is sitting way down on the top holes,....raise it 2 holes & i,m certain you will get very close to 5,500 rpms. That 19p is the right pitch for your application, but if it's the stock off the shelf Yamaha prop, i'd opt for a 14.25 x 19 S/S Stiletto. It's a performance prop & should give your rig a totally different ride & a bit more speed. If you order a Stiletto, they don't hub them for Yamahas but the Merc hub fits Yamaha so order it for a Merc. Sal
discoduck	posted 06-25-2003 10:09 PM ET (US) Thanks to everyone for the advice. I really appreciate the quick replies. I do have a transducer mounted on the starboard side and I will check it over thoroughly and probably just slide it up as far as it will go for a test run. I double checked the weight balance and most of it is right down the middle. I have two batteries in the middle of the console. The Oil tank is located on the port side in the console which is not very heavy but might help to move over to port. Thats really about it. I will check the transducer over and if that don't help it, I'll have a set of trim tabs installed over the winter. Thanks again Brett